Speaker 1: Flex and Frooms, Flex and Frooms.
Speaker 2: This is the Flex and Frooms catch up podcast.
Speaker 3: I found myself the other day at South Found Sandwiches
Speaker 3: in Darling Hursts, my favorite sandwich shop.
Speaker 1: Yours too. Shout out to Giordana.
Speaker 2: You're an early adopter, though you've been on it for years.
Speaker 1: What can I say? Probably twenty eighteen I started there. Now.
Speaker 3: I was sitting with a friend. My friend is a musician.
Speaker 3: Do they know you're about to dock them? Yeah, I
Speaker 3: asked them, because I know you would like this one flexing.
Speaker 3: And she was telling me about how the other day
Speaker 3: an old producer of hers called her up.
Speaker 1: He was on he was having a really good time.
Speaker 3: He was out that night right, so called her facetimed her,
Speaker 3: was like, you are the most talented person I ever
Speaker 3: worked with.
Speaker 1: You're a genius.
Speaker 3: You know it kind of befuddles me why you aren't bigger,
Speaker 3: Like you need to work harder, you need to do this.
Speaker 3: I know what you're capable of. And my friend was saying, like,
Speaker 3: while it was really nice to hear that because she
Speaker 3: really obviously respects this producer and they're big deal, like
Speaker 3: they know what talent is. She kind of felt it
Speaker 3: made her feel bad, like, oh my god, why aren't
Speaker 3: I doing more? Like, you know, she's someone who's like
Speaker 3: really good at doing what she feels right for her,
Speaker 3: Like she's not someone who's going to follow a like
Speaker 3: a certain route that will like guarantee success, right, and
Speaker 3: she that's kind of like she feels bad about that,
Speaker 3: Like damn if only I, you know, like played the
Speaker 3: TikTok game and did all this.
Speaker 1: Then I'd be where I want to be. But she
Speaker 1: doesn't want to do it.
Speaker 3: We got talking about it, and I was like, well,
Speaker 3: would you rather everyone kind of like let's do a hypothetical.
Speaker 3: Let's say you end up getting what you want, you're
Speaker 3: as successful as you want to be.
Speaker 1: Would you have.
Speaker 3: Rathered everyone think you're a genius from the start, or
Speaker 3: would you rather an underdog story?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Like she was so average. We had no idea she
Speaker 2: could make it.
Speaker 1: Now look at her, Yeah, wow, what do you reckon?
Speaker 2: I mean, it goes either way.
Speaker 4: As I was hearing you recall or recount this story,
Speaker 4: I was like, it sounds like misplaced frustration to me,
Speaker 4: because it's I think being part of this like faux
Speaker 4: self aware generation. Because we can explain it. We feel
Speaker 4: soothed by that reality. So it's like I want to
Speaker 4: do things differently. This is the consequence, you know. So
Speaker 4: when someone who has worked with other people who are
Speaker 4: doing the thing that you want to do in a
Speaker 4: way that you should be able to do it, but
Speaker 4: you don't want to do it that way, like, of
Speaker 4: course it feels bad, but now you know because imagine
Speaker 4: the alternative. Right, Let's say that I really want I'm
Speaker 4: an amazing visionary singer, Like I've got an amazing voice,
Speaker 4: an amazing style, i can do any genre.
Speaker 2: It's effortless to me.
Speaker 4: And I work with a bunch of other singers and
Speaker 4: you know, their voices are subpa they can't hit notes,
Speaker 4: but they're just really good at brand building. They're really
Speaker 4: good at social media, and not even really good. They
Speaker 4: just like work with enough people who are essentially putting
Speaker 4: them in a very specific mold, and they're just like
Speaker 4: being a puppeteer. You, I might feel like I don't
Speaker 4: want to do it that way, Like I want to
Speaker 4: be the Andy Warhol of my generation. I want to
Speaker 4: be the person who's so far left to such an
Speaker 4: outlier that you can't help but look and stare and
Speaker 4: recognize that I'm incredible. It's like, yeah, it's like a
Speaker 4: one and all, one and a billion.
Speaker 2: Thing to do.
Speaker 4: So like that in itself has its own set of complications.
Speaker 4: But I feel like sometimes when you are really exceptional,
Speaker 4: it's hard to recognize. It's like you're not exceptional enough
Speaker 4: to like outsmart the system that was made in such
Speaker 4: a specific way for this reason. So when so, because
Speaker 4: what's the consequence, Like having a bunch of amazing people
Speaker 4: who we never get to hear because they want to
Speaker 4: do things their way.
Speaker 2: It's like, no, we all tried that.
Speaker 3: Where we got to in the conversation, she was like,
Speaker 3: I would hate to do something that doesn't feel authentic
Speaker 3: and then not get.
Speaker 1: What I want.
Speaker 3: She was like, let's say then I play the game,
Speaker 3: but I still don't get what I want. Now I've
Speaker 3: lost my you know, I wasn't even being true to myself.
Speaker 3: So it's a very difficult bond that she finds herself.
Speaker 4: And it's a good question, like do you want what
Speaker 4: you want or do you want to feel good? Because
Speaker 4: I often feel like you can't do both in the
Speaker 4: same way, like you. I mean, some people can, and
Speaker 4: they do, but for everybody else. For all of us,
Speaker 4: it's like, yes, you can have what you want in
Speaker 4: exactly the way you want it, but you don't make
Speaker 4: any room for the consequence of that. And that's what
Speaker 4: my therapist told me. He's like, you're so rational and
Speaker 4: logical and so naive at the same time. And I
Speaker 4: was like, what do you mean so, and he's like,
Speaker 4: you have You've done this really amazing thing where you've
Speaker 4: cultivated a life that matches your desires. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 4: given you this illusion of control that you don't have.
Speaker 4: You've cultivated control in certain areas, but generally you don't
Speaker 4: have control. I don't have control. We don't have control.
Speaker 4: And what happens is when you start to when you're
Speaker 4: able to curate things in your vision, you don't take
Speaker 4: into consideration that there would be a bunch of things
Speaker 4: that you can't curate in your vision. You don't want
Speaker 4: to be accountable for that reality. So, for example, this
Speaker 4: idea of like, well, I would prefer to be authentic
Speaker 4: and get what I want, it's like, maybe in this
Speaker 4: reality you can't do that. So what you're preferring is
Speaker 4: the feeling of failure from not getting what you want
Speaker 4: and the story you tell yourself around why you feel
Speaker 4: comfortable with that. And I was like, whoa sir, so sorry, sorry,
Speaker 4: back up, and he was just like, there are a
Speaker 4: lot of the things that all of us will experience.
Speaker 4: It's just biproducts are being alive byproducts are being a human.
Speaker 4: Biproducts are being women, byproducts of living in a patriarchal society,
Speaker 4: by products of living in a capitalist society. This is
Speaker 4: just the reality of the situation. And what we do
Speaker 4: with this information is we often feel like we're the
Speaker 4: exception to the way that things are, or that we
Speaker 4: have the power to overcome because we are told a
Speaker 4: lot of stories about overcoming trials and tribulations, from fairy
Speaker 4: tales to old folks tales to how people motivate you
Speaker 4: when you're younger, Like you can be the exception. You know,
Speaker 4: I knew a guide he was so dumb, but look
Speaker 4: look at how he turned out. Or like I knew
Speaker 4: a girl she was so unfit, but she wanted to
Speaker 4: be a bodybuilder. People like instill this idea into you
Speaker 4: that you can overcome the most abnormal situations, and so
Speaker 4: when it comes to doing things as they have been
Speaker 4: done for a millennia. You feel like you're above that
Speaker 4: because I've heard plenty of stories that would affirm that
Speaker 4: I could do it differently.
Speaker 2: And it's true, you can do it differently. But then
Speaker 2: what we don't.
Speaker 4: Prepare ourselves for is almost like the number of implications
Speaker 4: are doing things differently. So, for example, if you're someone
Speaker 4: who wants to do something exceptional, objectively exceptional, so be
Speaker 4: a creative for a living that's an exceptional thing. Be
Speaker 4: a doctor that's exceptional, go off the grit, it's exceptional.
Speaker 4: You must prepare yourself for exceptional failures. Yep, exceptional hardships.
Speaker 4: People don't do that. They're cand like, wait, why can't
Speaker 4: I just do both? You are doing both? Wait, I
Speaker 4: have to do GST you literally, I can't I just
Speaker 4: own a business and not have to fire anyone.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you could try it, see how you go.
Speaker 4: So it's interesting when you talk about this friendom like
Speaker 4: I get it, Like I totally understand this, this juggling
Speaker 4: these two opposing ideas, like I could do it this
Speaker 4: way and it could work out, but I could be unhappy.
Speaker 4: Or I could do it this way but it might
Speaker 4: not work out. But then I could be happy. It's like,
Speaker 4: but the only way that you know is if you
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 3: I choose the option where you're not doing the like
Speaker 3: trend thing, but maybe you fail. Yeah, because I think
Speaker 3: especially this person's like in the creative industry, I think,
Speaker 3: like you, something that I think you need to be
Speaker 3: conscious of is like, let's say you do go down
Speaker 3: the path of doing like I think with a lot
Speaker 3: of creative industries, like in what we do, something that's
Speaker 3: really important, which I feel like I would find hard,
Speaker 3: especially when I worked at Pedestrian, is like the way
Speaker 3: to grow an audience is to keep doing the same
Speaker 3: thing again and again and again, like people really want
Speaker 3: to know, Oh, you're gonna get this thing on Tuesday,
Speaker 3: like podcasting everything, the number one thing is to be consistent.
Speaker 1: Like you don't even have to really be.
Speaker 3: Like good tvh you just have to do it because
Speaker 3: there's really Australia's industry is so small. If you just
Speaker 3: get up and like post something every single day, you
Speaker 3: will find an audience. But I used to be like,
Speaker 3: oh I did want a video like this, and you know,
Speaker 3: someone to be like can you do another one like that?
Speaker 1: I'm like I actually can't king like.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know how creativity works. People
Speaker 2: don't all my processes.
Speaker 3: They're like, you're getting paid, so you're gonna have it.
Speaker 2: No, I can't walk to another Bunnings and talking about conspation. No,
Speaker 2: I can't do that. Thank you. That was the one
Speaker 2: and done. It was the Becasa of my generation.
Speaker 1: Literally never before seen.
Speaker 3: So I get the vibe that, like, you don't want
Speaker 3: to have to do it a cookie cut away.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I can't help you with.
Speaker 4: That because I But it's also interesting, like knowing that
Speaker 4: and actually knowing that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So it's like knowing it is being able to say
Speaker 4: it but then have it be affirmed by people around you,
Speaker 4: Like imagine if someone.
Speaker 1: Said to you to your face with love.
Speaker 4: It's like you should be at a different position, like
Speaker 4: you were so much more talented. You're falling off in
Speaker 4: record times. It's freaking me out, it's freaking the girls out.
Speaker 4: You need to do better, and it's like you just
Speaker 4: like you'd be like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Look I
Speaker 4: wasn't ready to hear it. But it's like you knew,
Speaker 4: you already knew. It's interesting. Let's go hit differently.
Speaker 2: It would, but this is why we always go back to.
Speaker 4: You know, when we seek feedback advice, Do we actually
Speaker 4: really want it or are we just light gassing?
Speaker 1: Do we want a mental advice?
Speaker 2: She wasn't unhappy before that mental call. You've been listening
Speaker 2: to The Flex and Froom's daily podcast.
Speaker 3: For more, Tune Indicator on DAB or stream it on iHeartRadio.