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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent.

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Speaker 2: Who just wants answers. Now.

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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm doctor Justin Coulson and I'm joined today by

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Speaker 1: Luke and Suzie, husband wife radio team.

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Speaker 2: They've got three young boys. Oh my wife. This is

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Speaker 2: Happy Families and I have.

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Speaker 1: Six daughters and I've written six books about raising happy families.

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Speaker 2: And in this conversation I had a conversation.

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Speaker 1: With Luke and Suzie about a recent report from the

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Speaker 1: OECD that shows that Australia is not doing so well

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Speaker 1: when it comes to adolescence and bullying.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Justin Colson, how are you doing great?

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I have a quick joke for you, Susie.

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Speaker 1: It's been a while since I've had a dad joke,

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Speaker 1: but Kylie gave me one the other day that was

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Speaker 1: just so good. It's a little bit of bathroom humor.

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Speaker 1: I hope you'll forgive it, but it's a dad joke.

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Speaker 1: You go into the toilet Australian, you come out of

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Speaker 1: the toilet Australian, But while you're in the toilet, you're

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Speaker 1: not Australian.

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Speaker 2: What are you European? You know that one? Well done?

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Speaker 2: Isn't that good?

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Speaker 4: All tell us you've been doing some work in this area,

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Speaker 4: particularly recently, Doctor Justin Coulson.

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Speaker 3: Where is Australia in a statistic?

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Speaker 2: We just don't want to be Yeah, bullying.

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Speaker 1: The OECD has just released a report showing that Australia

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Speaker 1: is number two, just behind the Brits when it comes

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Speaker 1: to bullying. One in three Australian teenagers now indicates that

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Speaker 1: they've been bullied recently. And obviously this is the kind

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Speaker 1: of news that we don't really want to hear.

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Speaker 4: When you say recently, does that mean the statistic for

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Speaker 4: those teenagers who are bullied in their teenage yus is

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Speaker 4: probably higher than that.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of hard to know.

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Speaker 1: What we know is that on average Australian teenaged report

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Speaker 1: being bullied. About one in four usually reports that they've

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Speaker 1: been bullied, and some it depends. Some studies will be

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Speaker 1: like the last week, some will say the last month,

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Speaker 1: some will say the last year. This research shows that

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Speaker 1: it's one in three in more recent times, and I

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Speaker 1: think somewhere around twenty five to thirty three percent, let's

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Speaker 1: say thirty percent on average in the last month or thereabouts,

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Speaker 1: would report having experienced bullying. We don't know how many

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Speaker 1: people overall, because we just can't get that data. But

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Speaker 1: there's a pretty high percentage of kids that are having

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Speaker 1: a rough time socially.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to break a rule of broadcast here justin

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Speaker 4: and ask you a question that I don't know if

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Speaker 4: you have the answer to, and that is the countries

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Speaker 4: that are doing really well in this is their research

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Speaker 4: on what they're doing that is proving successful.

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Speaker 1: You break the rule every time we talk, So I'm

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Speaker 1: okay with that.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you know.

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Speaker 1: There's a handful of things that are probably going on

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Speaker 1: in countries where bullying rates are lower that don't happen

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Speaker 1: in countries where bullying.

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Speaker 2: Rates are higher.

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Speaker 1: We live in a society and the countries that are

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Speaker 1: scoring highest on bullying generally where we have a really individual,

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Speaker 1: individualistic approach to life, and we live in these countries

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Speaker 1: that we call meritocracies. That is, the harder you work,

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Speaker 1: the further you can go. Therefore, if you haven't gone

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Speaker 1: very far, you mustn't be working very hard. Now, we

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Speaker 1: can obviously see flaws in those two approaches and those ideas,

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Speaker 1: and yet what we kind of have created is a

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Speaker 1: dog eat dog world.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to blame social media entirely, but I

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Speaker 1: think over the last decade or so, the way social

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Speaker 1: media has polarized and created fences and barriers and distinguish

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Speaker 1: people based on their political beliefs, for example, or whatever

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Speaker 1: beliefs it might be, I don't think that's helped. I

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Speaker 1: think that's only enhanced this fractured, individualistic approach. But it

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Speaker 1: seems that the countries that do worset are the ones

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Speaker 1: who are the most individualistic, and also the ones who

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Speaker 1: are very much about, you know, just get to the top,

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Speaker 1: make sure that you win. There's a real competitive slant

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Speaker 1: to the way their societies work. And you know, when

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Speaker 1: you look at the people who are most likely to bully,

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Speaker 1: it's not the kids that are down on their luck.

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Speaker 1: It's not the kids that don't have too much going

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Speaker 1: for them. It's usually the kids who are at the

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Speaker 1: top of the hierarchy, the kids who aren't afraid of

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Speaker 1: ruffling a few feathers to maintain their power. There's that

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Speaker 1: level of muckiavellianism. They've got the skills to be at

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Speaker 1: the top and to put other people in their place.

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Speaker 1: The kids that get bullied the most are the ones

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Speaker 1: who are different, whether they're a different race, different religion,

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Speaker 1: different culture. Maybe they show up at school and their

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Speaker 1: lunch looks different or smells different to everyone else's. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they're the kid who is carrying a couple of kilos

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Speaker 1: more than the average student in their grade, or maybe

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Speaker 1: they're the skinny kid, or perhaps they've got a lisp,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they don't learn so well. All you've got

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Speaker 1: to do is be different, and the kids that have

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Speaker 1: got the power will make sure that you know that

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Speaker 1: you're different, and everyone else does too, Which.

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Speaker 4: Is interesting because in adulthood, when you get into a

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Speaker 4: certain sphere, you suddenly realize that anything you have that

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Speaker 4: sets you apart is an asset, whereas yeah, in these

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Speaker 4: teenage years, anything that might set you apart puts you

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Speaker 4: out on.

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Speaker 5: The edge, to you down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's used to tee you downs.

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Speaker 5: I like the faith that you have in humanity that

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Speaker 5: we learn those lessons as adults.

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Speaker 2: I'll say the same thing. I know plenty of ABU

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Speaker 2: odds who are like, yeah, maybe.

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Speaker 3: Not, maybe I just have really nice friends.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think this is such an interesting thing because

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Speaker 5: I feel like we're very woke about the concept of

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Speaker 5: bullying about it. So I feel like we address it

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Speaker 5: regularly and it's a part of our language, and everything

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Speaker 5: is about anti bullying. So if we put so much

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Speaker 5: effort into counteracting this, then why is it still so prominent?

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Speaker 5: Why are we still some of the worst at it.

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Speaker 1: Let me get really deep for a second. My sense

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Speaker 1: is that it's because of our hearts. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that our hearts are turned towards our neighbors. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that our hearts are turned towards helping and lifting

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Speaker 1: and making a positive difference in the lives of the

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Speaker 1: people around us. Now I'm speaking collectively, I'm not speaking

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Speaker 1: about individuals here. You can look at our politics. Our

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Speaker 1: political leaders across the globe, but particularly in these Western countries,

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Speaker 1: have become more divisive than ever. They're not interested in

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Speaker 1: collaborate and working together for mutual good. They're interested in

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Speaker 1: power and winning. When you look at our sports teams,

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Speaker 1: when you look at our corporate culture, when you look

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Speaker 1: even at our schools and how competitive our schools have become.

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Speaker 1: We live in a culture of competition and comparison and

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Speaker 1: never being enough unless you're on top. I can't help

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Speaker 1: but think that that approach to life at a society

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Speaker 1: wide level turns hearts away from and even against our

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Speaker 1: neighbors and our peers, the kids that we're going to

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Speaker 1: school with, or the people that we're working with. When

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Speaker 1: competition rules, that means that there's going to be a hierarchy,

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Speaker 1: and that means that you want to be at the top,

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Speaker 1: not the bottom. And it's just I think that our

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Speaker 1: hearts are not turned towards helping and lifting. I think

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Speaker 1: that our hearts are turned away from or even against

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Speaker 1: the people who we really could be friends with and

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Speaker 1: collaborators with, even if they see the world differently.

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Speaker 2: And to me, it's actually that simple.

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Speaker 5: It's a really interesting challenge of self awareness as a

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Speaker 5: nation because I as much as white Australia, and I'll

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Speaker 5: say this quite boldly, can say that Australia is not

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Speaker 5: a racist country when the minorities in our country say

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Speaker 5: a very different story consistently, when we feel like we're

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Speaker 5: counteracting bullying, and the statistics globally say something different like

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Speaker 5: maybe we have a very strong self awareness issue that

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Speaker 5: we like to deny that these problems are real, but

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Speaker 5: they're more real than we could ever hope they would

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Speaker 5: ever be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, me coming with a thought here, justin taking in

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Speaker 4: what you've said there about how you know one of

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Speaker 4: the things sitting at the core of our bullying culture

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Speaker 4: is this individualistic society that we do have. Now, does

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Speaker 4: that mean that as parents, when we're looking at how

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Speaker 4: do we help our children not become the bully, that

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Speaker 4: sitting down having a conversation with them about not bullying

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Speaker 4: is not going to be nearly as effective as taking

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Speaker 4: them with us to help our friends move or to

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Speaker 4: volunteer at the local whatever. Is actually that action of

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Speaker 4: having them see us and participate in helping people in

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Speaker 4: our society actually the bettert step to teaching them to

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Speaker 4: not believe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself. You know,

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Speaker 1: when was the last time, and I'm not asking you

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Speaker 1: to directly, just as a general consideration, when was the

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Speaker 1: last time we had somebody from a different culture in

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Speaker 1: our own home, maybe for a meal or for a barbecue.

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Speaker 1: When was the last time that some people in your

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Speaker 1: street were moving in or moving out and you went

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Speaker 1: knocked on the door and dropped off a meal, or

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Speaker 1: you found out that somebody was sick and so you

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Speaker 1: just went to spend some time with them. I feel

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Speaker 1: as though we tend to have less of a sense

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Speaker 1: of community compared to how we might have when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid growing up, or you know, decades before that.

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Speaker 1: Even my sense is that our volunteering and our caring

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Speaker 1: for others has been diminished as governments have gotten bigger

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Speaker 1: and stepped in and is not for profits have stepped in.

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Speaker 2: And while there's all sorts of.

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Speaker 1: Great work being done in the world, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: less individual responsibility, I think, and our children are not

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Speaker 1: seeneing us being used up in helping and serving others.

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Speaker 1: As a result, they have less interaction with those who

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Speaker 1: perhaps are less fortunate, and therefore they have less empathy

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Speaker 1: for them because they have less contact with them. Therefore

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Speaker 1: it's easy to bully them, it's easy to dehumanize them

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Speaker 1: because they're not humans anyway. I don't see them, I

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Speaker 1: don't know who they are, I don't know what life is.

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Speaker 2: Like for them.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been a really challenging conversation, all out of

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Speaker 5: a statistic in some research.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Dustin calls them.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for your time, Thanks Cuzzie, Thanks Luke.

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Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed the podcast and found it helpful, if

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't mind doing something for me, could you visit

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. The ratings and reviews have been coming through

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Speaker 1: at a really wonderful rate, and I appreciate it so much.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it's your ratings and reviews that help people

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Speaker 1: to find the podcast and have happier families. Received a

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Speaker 1: review that came through that.

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Speaker 2: Just made me smile. It was from lash Legged who said, in.

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Speaker 1: A sea of podcasts, I'm loving this one for bringing

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Speaker 1: really helpful, practical, encouraging guidance and ideas to our hungry

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Speaker 1: but overwhelmed ears and lives in a brief but powerful way.

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Speaker 1: Each episode only around ten minutes or so. Then lash

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Speaker 1: Legedd also made some kind words about the way the

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Speaker 1: podcast sounds and said, please continue this podcast forever. Gave

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Speaker 1: us five stars. So nice of you to be in

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Speaker 1: touch and share that. Thank you so very much. If

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Speaker 1: you would like to leave a rating and a review,

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Speaker 1: we really like those five star reviews, and you can

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Speaker 1: do that by visiting Apple Podcasts, searching up my podcast

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families and letting us know what

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Speaker 1: you think.

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Speaker 2: So thank you Legged.

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Speaker 1: If you like more information about how I can help

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Speaker 1: your family, flourish, especially if you'd like to have ongoing

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Speaker 1: monthly support via our amazing Happy Families memberships.

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Speaker 2: Just visit happy families dot com dot you.

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Speaker 1: Our Happy Families family keeps on growing and we'd love

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Speaker 1: to have you as part of it. Or you can

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Speaker 1: go to my Facebook page, doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families