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Speaker 1: Get a I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter,

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Speaker 1: and professional overshare us. This podcast is all about celebrating

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Speaker 1: failure because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,

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Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview

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Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,

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Speaker 1: all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the pod. This episode was recorded

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Speaker 1: in Byron bays Or. It was recorded a little in advance,

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Speaker 1: but it is a really handy episode if you have

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Speaker 1: any kind of apprehension or fear of public speaking.

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Speaker 2: It is with Jonathan Peace.

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Speaker 1: He is the creator of public speaking program Winning the Room,

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Speaker 1: and he's got a book out with the same name.

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Speaker 1: And when I prepped this pod and read the book,

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many.

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Speaker 2: Little post it notes, sticky notes I put in it.

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Speaker 1: It's just really easy to digest information. So if you

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Speaker 1: or you know somebody that doesn't love public speaking, this

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Speaker 1: is quite an empowering episode because he's got so many

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Speaker 1: hacks around it because he himself had a massive fear

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Speaker 1: of it, and that's where this whole.

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Speaker 2: Idea was birthed from. So I think you'll love it.

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Speaker 2: I hope you do. And Jonathan, thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for recording this with me.

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Speaker 1: We recorded it literally over the holiday period, so thank

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Speaker 1: you for hanging in there until this came out.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate it, and I really appreciate you to

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Speaker 2: the listener. I hope you love it. I hope you

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Speaker 2: find inspiring.

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Speaker 1: I know for me as an actor, there were some

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Speaker 1: great takeaways that I was able to apply to when

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Speaker 1: I'm really anxious and nervous about getting up on stage.

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Speaker 1: All right, gang Huru, enjoy. Jonathan pee Is, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the pod. Public speaker, consultant, director creative worked in advertising

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Speaker 1: for two decades now and now an author.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the pod.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. Great to be here.

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Speaker 2: How does it feel writing this book?

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, look cathartic and amazing, but at the same

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Speaker 3: time daunting.

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Speaker 2: Were you scared, like handing over that manuscript?

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Speaker 3: Very scared? I mean I thought it was the worst

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Speaker 3: book ever written, and I'm still not sure if it isn't.

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Speaker 3: But people are kind enough to tell me they enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, very scary, and it remains scary to be

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Speaker 3: perfectly frank.

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Speaker 2: No spe as frank as you want. I think. I

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Speaker 2: think that's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: So it's called winning the Room. I started reading it

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Speaker 1: without any lens on, right, So I was just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to interview, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: read this book. And then about two chapters in, I

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Speaker 1: was like, hang on a sec.

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Speaker 2: I've done five, no seven.

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Speaker 1: Years of acting training, and I started to read it

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Speaker 1: through the lens of an actor, and nearly every single

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Speaker 1: tool kind of technique you teach. I'm like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is so perfect for like an actor because it's all

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Speaker 1: about preparation, rehearsing like that. I love and I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to talk to you about is it tight loose

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Speaker 1: you know?

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Speaker 2: And all these things like with acting.

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Speaker 1: You'll learn a script your work at work, at work,

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Speaker 1: at know the script back to front, no, the context,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole background of the culture, everything, and

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Speaker 1: then you step onto a set and you have to

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Speaker 1: let it all go. And I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: the exact same training that it felt very similar, and

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Speaker 1: so as someone that's done so much training in that space,

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Speaker 1: it was really beautiful to read through an actor's lens.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing to hear that it's a good insight. You

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Speaker 3: know what, when you public speak, it is a performance.

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Speaker 3: And that doesn't mean it's inauthentic or not you or

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Speaker 3: you're putting a show on. But yes, it needs to

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Speaker 3: be an elevated moment, just like it is when you're

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Speaker 3: an actor or an actress. So I'm pleased to hear

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Speaker 3: that and interesting and I haven't heard that feedback before.

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Speaker 3: So I love that. And I'm not that surprised because

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Speaker 3: I have done a lot of acting courses and improv

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Speaker 3: courses and every course I can get my hands on

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Speaker 3: to collect this information but also to teach myself. So

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Speaker 3: I'm not that surprised.

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Speaker 2: Improv courses mate, they are. They are the worst brutal.

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Speaker 1: That is just like literally failing over and over and

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Speaker 1: over again. Okay, So at the very beginning of the book,

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Speaker 1: you say you are obsessed with public speaking.

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Speaker 3: Why so it started when I have my own agency.

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Speaker 3: That's when I became truly obsessed because what I realized

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Speaker 3: pretty quickly was the best ideas badly presented don't get

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Speaker 3: an Actually, some pretty average ideas get up when they're

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Speaker 3: presented really well. So you know, there was a penny

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Speaker 3: drop moment for me where I was like, wait a

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Speaker 3: sec like, sure, you gotta have good ideas, but if

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Speaker 3: you don't present it, well you're dead no matter what.

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Speaker 3: So then I was like, okay, well, how could we

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Speaker 3: design the moments to get the ideas to land and

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Speaker 3: go all the way through to the client. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: forever since then, I've been whittling away at that.

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Speaker 1: And is it true you were kind of scared of

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Speaker 1: public speaking? I would like take a sickie on the

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Speaker 1: days I think you'd have to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So my first job is in New York. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and as you know, Americans are born orators. Oh yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean they're just incredible at public speaking. Seems to

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Speaker 3: be natural. I landed in that pond pretty nervous, and

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Speaker 3: then the more I was surrounded by great public speakers,

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Speaker 3: the more nervous I got, because I was like Jesus,

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Speaker 3: I am an absolute impostor here to the point where, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just shirked it. I would either call in sick

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Speaker 3: or just let someone else present for me. Really, I

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Speaker 3: was junior enough where no one cared. I just did

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Speaker 3: a bit of the work and then someone else basically

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Speaker 3: presented and probably took the glory. No problem. It was

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Speaker 3: until I had my mentor leave the business, a new

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Speaker 3: mentor came over, a new leader came over from the UK,

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Speaker 3: presented to the whole company about fifteen hundred of us,

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Speaker 3: and turned the whole business in sort of eight minutes

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Speaker 3: to his team. Right, and witnessing that, that was probably

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Speaker 3: the moment where I was like, you know, I need

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Speaker 3: to at least get better. I didn't realize I was

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Speaker 3: going to twenty five years later write a book and

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Speaker 3: think I'm not terrible at it. Cool, but I certainly

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Speaker 3: knew at that point I've got to get better. I can't.

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Speaker 3: I can't sort of swerve around this. It's got to

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Speaker 3: be part of what I do. So that was the beginning.

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Speaker 3: And then, as I said, once I have my own

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Speaker 3: agency and I realized this is a binary win lose

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Speaker 3: moment and how you present, how you win a room

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Speaker 3: is actually the difference. Well then it became a full

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Speaker 3: blown obsession.

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Speaker 1: I okay, I'm going to ask you specifics now, because

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Speaker 1: like I said, I was like, I haven't thought to

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Speaker 1: do that or And funnily enough, part of my career

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Speaker 1: has been in public speaking, and I have never been

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Speaker 1: trained in it.

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Speaker 2: I've never.

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Speaker 1: Knowingly studied it, If that makes sense. I think doing

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Speaker 1: yoga teacher training and knowing how to like command a

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Speaker 1: room in a certain way like carried across without me

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Speaker 1: realizing it.

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Speaker 2: But I literally had no training.

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Speaker 1: And then I was looking out, We've actually got the

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Speaker 1: same agent for public speaking, you and I, and I

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Speaker 1: was reading your profile and.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my godness, imagine if I.

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Speaker 1: Knew this before I started doing public speaking. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited to Yeah, deep dive, So can I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go or not chronologically in the order of.

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Speaker 2: Your books, because I've just deep Dive.

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Speaker 1: So, first of all, is it true that everyone speaks

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Speaker 1: too fast?

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Speaker 3: About everybody? But most people?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's a nervous thing of just like quick,

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Speaker 1: get it over with people watching me.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think people who are nervous speak faster, but

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Speaker 3: I think everybody probably speaks too fast, you know what.

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Speaker 3: I think it's actually a situation where what's going on

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Speaker 3: in your head is actually quite fast, and what's going

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Speaker 3: on in your environment is actually quite slow. Certainly, the

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Speaker 3: start of a meeting, you know, people are trying to

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Speaker 3: sort of rev up and start to consume whatever's happening.

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Speaker 3: So in order to keep up with the thoughts and

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Speaker 3: the ideas in your head. Yeah, people start to speak

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Speaker 3: faster and faster, and then if you get nerves even faster,

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Speaker 3: I guess trying to get to the end. And look,

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Speaker 3: you know who cares if you speak fast? Well, if

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Speaker 3: you're trying to engage and get people to remember, yeah, well,

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Speaker 3: I mean how they meant to remember A whole bunch

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Speaker 3: of things put into a fast monologue, it's just never

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Speaker 3: going to happen. Right, You've got to design it, break

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Speaker 3: it out into bite sized chunks, repetition, pausing, get them

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Speaker 3: to talk to you. These are the things that will

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Speaker 3: actually get messages to landstick and stay around and audible. Right,

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Speaker 3: stuff that people can then tell someone else. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: a big deal in business, right, Like, you're not in

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Speaker 3: every room. So in those rare moments where you get

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Speaker 3: the decision makers in a room, that's the moment you've

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Speaker 3: got to give the information away where they can pick

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Speaker 3: it up, take it and tell their boss and tell

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Speaker 3: their investor, tell their friend. Right, and you don't be

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Speaker 3: in the room. They start doing the work for you.

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Speaker 3: If you've done it in the right way. If you haven't, well,

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Speaker 3: then you've you got to keep doing it and it's

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Speaker 3: just ineffective, waste time, waste money.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned pausing.

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Speaker 1: That is something that can feel kind of daunting when

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Speaker 1: you're on a stage, Like you can almost feel naked

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Speaker 1: because you're like, especially if you are a fast speaker

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Speaker 1: or my Achilles heelers, I'll say the word like like,

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Speaker 1: I will go ahead, just do it then instead of

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Speaker 1: taking a pause and taking a moment, catching my breath

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Speaker 1: and just like letting whatever I've said land or be

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Speaker 1: ready for what's to come next. How do you get

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Speaker 1: confident in taking that space and taking those pauses.

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Speaker 3: I'll just back up slightly on it, because pausing is

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Speaker 3: such a major, a major piece, and I think when

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Speaker 3: people get their heads around it can have a really

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Speaker 3: transformative I guess impact. So I think people don't pause

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Speaker 3: because we're really nervous of silence, especially if we're up

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Speaker 3: the front of a room all eyes on you. The

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Speaker 3: last thing you want is silence, right, Like, wait a second,

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Speaker 3: has she or she lost their place? Do they not

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Speaker 3: know the subject matter now because they're silent? And of

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Speaker 3: course in fact, you're just pausing to let the information absorb.

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Speaker 3: So I find if people can embrace pausing, embrace silence,

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Speaker 3: and really lean into it. Like most things in life, right,

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Speaker 3: if you find something that's uncomfortable or gives you a

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Speaker 3: bit of anxiety, if you can lean into it and

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Speaker 3: just go, actually, know what, I'm cool with it, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be comfortable being uncomfortable, you then find all

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Speaker 3: this value and amazing stuff on the other side of.

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Speaker 1: That, or you'd be skilling up that is realizing, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you get more and more comfort you any single time.

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Speaker 3: And pausing is addictive, right absolutely, Once once you see

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Speaker 3: the value and you see the difference in your audience

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Speaker 3: based on deliberate pauses that you control, it's so addictive,

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Speaker 3: and you start to put in heaps and heaps of pauses.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm certainly at a point where if I'm

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Speaker 3: doing a big public speaking moment, I am like really pausing,

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Speaker 3: like to the point of awkward, right, like really pushing

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Speaker 3: it just to see what happens. And you know what

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Speaker 3: I've learned. All you get is more engagement, more attention.

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Speaker 3: You actually don't like people don't sort of wander off

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Speaker 3: or second screen or think about it. They actually lean

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Speaker 3: in further. The more you pause and I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: where the edges. I'm trying to find it, but it's

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Speaker 3: long pauses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: And what about audience participation. I know you're quite passionate

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Speaker 1: about that as well. I know sometimes when I do okay,

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Speaker 1: cut time for questions or do you want to have

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Speaker 1: any questions, people get nervous about putting their hand up,

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Speaker 1: and usually after someone's done that first question, the hands

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Speaker 1: will go up all over the room. But it's just

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Speaker 1: getting there that courageous first person to ask questions like

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Speaker 1: how can we navigate that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So it's funny a lot of things in this book,

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Speaker 3: and this is a good example of it. They're things

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Speaker 3: that we know right good to get the audience talking. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we know that as a basic idea. Y. So lots

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Speaker 3: of people meander into that and sort of ask a

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Speaker 3: faux question. Oh gosh, no one's answering. Better move on that.

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Speaker 3: That's not how it's done. It's got to be full commitment.

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Speaker 3: If you go to your audience and you say, you

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Speaker 3: know what, I'd love to hear from three people on X,

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Speaker 3: you wait for three people like for the rest of

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Speaker 3: the hour if you need to right like full and

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Speaker 3: you won't have to because when people realize you're serious

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Speaker 3: and it's not anecdotal, it's you know what, sorry, it's

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Speaker 3: not rhetorical, it's a real question. People, really, my better

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Speaker 3: get involved. And then suddenly that first hand goes up.

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Speaker 3: Then the second, third, fourth, Now we're having a conversation.

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Speaker 3: We're not having a one, you know, one to many presentation.

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Speaker 3: We're actually a group conversation. We're starting to think together,

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Speaker 3: do I like these ideas? Do I want to invest

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Speaker 3: in this company? Do I want to buy that book?

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Speaker 3: Whatever it is that you're trying to put out in

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Speaker 3: that public speaking moment. So yeah, it's really about commitment

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Speaker 3: and letting the audience know. You don't have to verbally

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Speaker 3: tell them, but with your body language, with the tone

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Speaker 3: of your voice, but the way that you ask folk

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Speaker 3: question and answer that you're actually meaning it. It's not

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Speaker 3: one of those like, well so what do you think

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Speaker 3: and then moving on to the next point. And you

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Speaker 3: see that all the time, right and it it's funny

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Speaker 3: because it does a couple of things. When you do

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Speaker 3: those soft questions or you know, rhetorical questions. Number one,

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Speaker 3: it tells the audience, well, actually they're not really interested

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Speaker 3: in what I think they're not really asking. From my opinion,

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Speaker 3: they're sort of just doing it as a we all

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Speaker 3: know you meant to do that thing, but not fully committing.

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Speaker 3: So it has quite an eroding effect. It lets the

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Speaker 3: audience know that, actually, I'm not that interested in your opinion.

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Speaker 3: It also can drive your own nerves because you do it,

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Speaker 3: no one responds. You keep going, oh god, are they listening?

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Speaker 3: Are they engaged? You know? Like being nervous about public

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Speaker 3: speaking is it's kind of like a slippery slope once

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Speaker 3: once there's a little thing becomes a slightly bigger thing,

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Speaker 3: and then suddenly you're fully blown anxious and it's just

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Speaker 3: you know, it becomes this totally cycle. I like with

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Speaker 3: many things in life, you just need to push into

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Speaker 3: that discomfort. Yeah. Actually, you know what, audience, I want

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Speaker 3: this to be two way. I've got a question, bang,

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Speaker 3: put it out there and just mate look at them

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Speaker 3: and look around find people you know, Sally, what about you?

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Speaker 3: Do you have any you know what I mean? Like

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Speaker 3: you actually hunt it and commitment.

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Speaker 1: Oh you're I wish I had you in my ear

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Speaker 1: when sometimes because I speak in the wellness space, I've

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Speaker 1: spoken at a lot of events where they're breakfast events,

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Speaker 1: so people are eating while you're speaking, and it is

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Speaker 1: so hard to engage. And I'm big on eye contact too,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I can't make eye contact.

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Speaker 2: When they're looking at the eggs. Benedict, Yeah, like it's quiet.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, like a it's a great example.

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Speaker 3: And when you are presenting to people that are actively

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Speaker 3: doing something else like eating, it's tough. So you need

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Speaker 3: to make a decision up front. Well, okay, what type

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Speaker 3: of moment is this going to be? What am I

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Speaker 3: going to design? Is it going to be something that

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Speaker 3: can be sort of almost playing in the background while

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Speaker 3: they do what they do, or do I want to

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Speaker 3: cut through that? And if you do, you need to

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Speaker 3: sign post it. Again, it's in the book, but you

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Speaker 3: need to say, hey, guys, I get it, We're all

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Speaker 3: it in breakfast. We're here for a good time and

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Speaker 3: hope the coffee is good. But I do want this

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Speaker 3: to be interactive, So there's going to be moments during

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Speaker 3: this presentation. I'm going to ask you questions and I'm

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Speaker 3: actually going to wait for answers, So please get involved, right,

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Speaker 3: do you I mean, like actually sign post it? And

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Speaker 3: then when you get to those moments full commitment. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: wait for answers and be okay if it's forty five

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Speaker 3: seconds a minute waiting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: So this is where I feel like you would need

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Speaker 1: something that you write about the very top of the book,

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Speaker 1: and that is confidence, and I think a.

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Speaker 2: Sense of just self awareness as well.

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Speaker 1: How can we help to foster that confidence to be

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Speaker 1: able to sit in that like the way you've mentioned

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Speaker 1: a bit about like leaning into the discomfort? What and

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Speaker 1: I know the tools are in the book, but like,

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Speaker 1: just for the listener, how can we foster some confidence,

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Speaker 1: especially when it feels like all eyes are on us?

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Speaker 3: Yep. Number one, have a plan and that doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: necessarily here are the points I'm going to say, Sure

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Speaker 3: you need that, but have a bigger plan. I What

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Speaker 3: am I trying to achieve with this moment? What type

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Speaker 3: of tone do I want to create? What am I

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Speaker 3: looking for as an outcome? Have all that stuff thought out? Now?

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Speaker 3: That may sound basic, but I know from experience when

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Speaker 3: I work with people, I ask them, hey, so what

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Speaker 3: do you try to achieve with this? I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'm just you know, I've been asked to speak, so

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Speaker 3: I'm just doing it. Yeah, Wow, Okay, that's interesting. Well

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Speaker 3: let's let's make an objective here. Let's let's go for

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Speaker 3: an outcome, and let's design back from there, right, because

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Speaker 3: if it's get people to agree and invest, let's just say, well,

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Speaker 3: you're opening needs to be pointing towards that. Every point

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Speaker 3: along the way needs to be getting towards that yes moment,

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Speaker 3: maybe you need to create some jeopardy around it. If

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Speaker 3: it was a no, except you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: say all then designs that way? So number one, have

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Speaker 3: a plan, and I mean a plan on a I

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Speaker 3: guess a high level, but also on a low level.

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Speaker 3: Also what exactly what am I going to say? Get

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Speaker 3: tired on that content and then get loose, which we'll

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Speaker 3: talk about, yeah, and then rehearsing, and I get it.

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Speaker 3: Most people don't like to hear that. In the corporate

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Speaker 3: world that I work in, normally I don't like to

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Speaker 3: hear it because they tell me they I don't have time.

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Speaker 3: My response to that as usually, well, if you don't

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Speaker 3: have time, is it worth presenting truly?

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Speaker 2: Beause do you believe in ten reps? Don't you? Ten?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And look I believe in that, do I always

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Speaker 3: do it? My self, probably not, but I certainly do three. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I know that if I do ten, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be a lot better and my team's going to

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Speaker 3: be absolutely fine if we do do ten. But I

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Speaker 3: would never ever go in with no rehearsal at all,

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Speaker 3: that's for sure. I've just I've seen it go wrong

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Speaker 3: too many times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, A lot of people in the corporate world

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Speaker 3: don't like the idea of rehearsing because I don't have time. Yes, apparently,

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Speaker 3: And again I say, well, then is it worth rehearsing.

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Speaker 3: Could this be an email? Could this be a lead

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Speaker 3: behind document?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Right, and maybe it is, and that's cool. But if

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Speaker 3: it's a moment that needs to be presented for whatever reason,

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Speaker 3: well let's really design it and go for our outcome

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Speaker 3: and rehearse properly. That usually sort of wakes people up

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Speaker 3: to make that decision, and then we either rehearse or

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Speaker 3: we write a great email. Either's fine, But you don't

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Speaker 3: want to go and present an email. Basically you're wasting

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Speaker 3: your own time and others, and you also potentially trip

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Speaker 3: yourself up because you haven't rehearsed. Yeah. So that's for

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Speaker 3: the corporate world, I think for everyone just on a

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Speaker 3: human level. Yeah, people ten, Well, they give me this feedback.

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Speaker 3: If I rehearse, will I be natural, like like, won't

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Speaker 3: it be canned and everything's sort of you know, coming

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Speaker 3: out in a plan et cetera. The answers, no, if

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Speaker 3: you apply tight loose, so just tight, maybe it will.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it will feel slightly formulaic and rehearsed and canned.

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Speaker 3: Tight loose where you learn it really tight night before

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Speaker 3: you throw it away and you present it loose, your

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Speaker 3: points come out one three, two four five rather than

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Speaker 3: one two, three for five. Yeah. Then you get the accuracy,

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Speaker 3: you get the confidence, but you also get the live

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Speaker 3: ebb and flow of a real conversation that's kind of

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Speaker 3: like perfect world. Yeah. So look, I've really banged on

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Speaker 3: about it. Long story short, have a plan on a

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Speaker 3: couple of levels, but also rehearse. You've just got to

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Speaker 3: do that. It's one of those like.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I read on the rehearse section that

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Speaker 1: I have never done is prepare for Q and A.

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Speaker 2: It's actually rehearse the.

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Speaker 1: Q and a's because I like, I love one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite bits about public speaking is not being prepared

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Speaker 1: for Q and a's because I love.

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Speaker 2: But then I've never been in the corporate world.

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Speaker 1: I've very much been in a like wellness people who've

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Speaker 1: bought tickets to be at a wellness event kind of,

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Speaker 1: so I've known what the genre is going to like

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Speaker 1: the house that the genre of the Q and a's

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Speaker 1: are going to sin, So I've probably been aware. But

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Speaker 1: I love when like a curveball comes my way because

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Speaker 1: it snaps me. It makes me so present and I'm

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Speaker 1: like very connected to that person and that answer. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes when I dose public speaking, they're like, do you

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Speaker 1: want to see the questions that we're going to be

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Speaker 1: asking you?

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Speaker 2: I'm always like, no, I don't want to know.

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Speaker 3: How weird is that?

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Speaker 1: But that's why, Yeah, I don't know why. Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: like rehearsing through other ways that I haven't even.

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Speaker 2: Been aware of.

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Speaker 1: And then you're there, You're so ready and so comfortable.

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Speaker 1: Like you've even talked about movement and the importance of

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Speaker 1: breath and understanding voice, like I've spent ten years working

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Speaker 1: on all of those things in different ways. So in

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Speaker 1: a way, that's kind of like preparing you so that

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Speaker 1: you are so comfortable by the time you are there.

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Speaker 1: But you do believe in rehearsing question Q and A

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Speaker 1: is absolutely so.

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Speaker 3: I've just seen too many instances of a fantastic presentation

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Speaker 3: client or audience is absolutely bored in loving it. One

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Speaker 3: question and everything is picked and unraveled, and you may

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Speaker 3: as well not have presented at all. One question that

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Speaker 3: was fielded badly. And that fielding badly comes in different strains.

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Speaker 3: One is you don't know the answer and you make

434
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 3: it up and you fluff it basically yeah right. Another

435
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 3: is a group of people in your presenting team start

436
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 3: sort of throwing the question, oh, you know, Barry, if

437
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 3: you've got an answer, I'm not really Lucy, what about you?

438
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 3: And you sort of, you know, suddenly do not look

439
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 3: like a cohesive team that works well together, like where's

440
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 3: the plan, guys, et cetera. Yeah, and also the Rhodes

441
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 3: confidence right, Like you get the tricky question like oh god.

442
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 3: If you rehearse Q and A number one, you'll probably

443
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 3: be quite likely you get questions that are similar to

444
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: what you've rehearsed, so then you've got a similar answer

445
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 3: and you can still add lib. Also, if you get

446
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 3: something that's completely left of field, you've rehearsed the idea

447
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 3: that you know what, that's a great question. I don't

448
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 3: want to just come up with something on the spot

449
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 3: right now. I want to honor it. Let me come

450
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 3: back to you tomorrow with a real answer, right, A

451
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 3: real answer that's worthy of that great question Like that

452
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 3: is an amazing way to ask to answer a question.

453
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 3: It shows humility, It takes them seriously rather than sort

454
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 3: of And again I've seen amazing public speakers do this.

455
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: They get a tricky question, they either don't answer it

456
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 3: and they answer something else like typical politician style, or

457
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 3: they sort of fob it off and the person's left,

458
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: like the person who asks the question is left. They're thinking, geez, like,

459
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 3: why did I participate at all? And other people in

460
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: the room think, well, I'm not going to participate either,

461
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 3: and suddenly that participation level goes down. So let's go

462
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 3: back to getting people talking and participate. Patient. Why is

463
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: that important? Well, when you're presenting, you're basically storytelling, giving information.

464
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 3: The audience is sort of hopefully investigating your ideas but

465
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 3: also judging you. When they're talking, they're basically selling to themselves.

466
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 3: So they are actually trying to get to a yes

467
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 3: or no. They're basically in the buying cycle when they're talking.

468
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: So you want to get people talking early. You want

469
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 3: them talking all the way through. So anything you're doing,

470
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: I guess I'm talking to everybody. Anything that people are

471
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 3: doing that stops people talking, I think is really really

472
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 3: bad for getting to a yes, which really is the

473
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: ultimate outcome of most corporate public speaking moments. You want

474
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 3: people to say yes to give me the job, give

475
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: me the investment, follow my cause, buy my book, whatever

476
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 3: it is. You want the yes at the end of

477
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 3: or you want them talking as much as possible so

478
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 3: together you can investigate, make a decision together, and buy.

479
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: Which feels like a collective. We become a little community

480
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: in that moment.

481
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 3: That's right. Oh wow. You know. I think a big

482
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 3: misconception for people that public speak is they feel like

483
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 3: all the pressures on them and it's about them, right,

484
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 3: Like I'm the experts. It's all about me, and I've

485
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 3: got to do all the work. I actually think probably

486
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 3: the opposite is true. I think the presenter is actually

487
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: just a guide. And don't get me wrong, guides are important,

488
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: but just a guide. The information or the story is

489
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 3: something else, and the presenter helps the audience get the

490
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: most value out of that story or information to it.

491
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, that's cool.

492
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 3: And you can bring personality and fun and all sorts

493
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 3: of stuff to that role. But importantly, you're not the information.

494
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 3: It's actually not about you. It's about the concept of

495
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: the information, and you then guide people through it and

496
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 3: obviously add as much value as you can once you're

497
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: doing that, and then obviously bring them in get them talking.

498
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 3: Now the audience the presenter are looking at the story

499
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 3: of the information together, we're investigating it, we're looking for

500
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: value together, and we all get to this agreement moment

501
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: at the end. And yes, it's really easy at that

502
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 3: point because I'm not being convinced, I'm not being tricked. Yeah,

503
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 3: I'm being guided through and I'm finding my own value

504
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 3: in my own way. And yeah, it is.

505
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: It is Can we talk tight loose? Because I think

506
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: it is one of my favorite parts of the book.

507
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 2: So is it? It is this concept of like.

508
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: Kind of like doing all of the work and then yeah,

509
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: like sitting caution to the wind and trusting the work

510
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: that you've done.

511
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: Very similar to acting. Acting is like work.

512
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: You guts out what you guts out, what you guts out,

513
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: and step on set run like, just let it be.

514
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 3: Speak to any professional sports person, let's say the same thing, right,

515
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 3: you know you often hear them say it. Well, you

516
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 3: know what, whatever I did in the last three weeks

517
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 3: is what you're going to see. I'm not nervous right

518
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 3: now because I've done the work. There's nothing more to do.

519
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: I just need to show up and be present. You singers, actors,

520
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 3: anyone who's doing that sort of stuff in a public domain,

521
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: they all have a version of this. So I'm pretty

522
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: sure I came up with the name tight loose. Maybe

523
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: I borrowed it, I don't know, but it occurred to

524
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: me that there were two types of presenters. There were

525
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 3: people who felt, I guess rehearsed and really buttoned up

526
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 3: and I guess rationally good, but not that emotionally good

527
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 3: for the audience. And then there were others who were

528
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: kind of a bit light on the detail but felt really,

529
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 3: you know, emotionally good and lots of charisma. And I

530
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 3: want to like that person, so I'm probably going to

531
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: say yes, but I'm not quite sure I know all

532
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: the details. I'm not quite sure I really get it,

533
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 3: but I just like that person's energy, So I'm into

534
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 3: it really tight. Loose is about joining the two together

535
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 3: so you can have the rigor and the rational of

536
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 3: that really buttoned up presenter mixed with emotion, story, charisma, personality, vulnerability, right,

537
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 3: mistakes and humor and all that amazing human stuff that

538
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: we do with our friends and loved ones. Yeah, bringing

539
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 3: some of that in my case, to the corporate world,

540
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 3: but to any world. Right by just bringing some of

541
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: that through, you know, one of the big opportunities that

542
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 3: is missed with these moments where people present whatever genre

543
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 3: that is. We don't let our real personality come through.

544
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: And that's the biggest crime, right, Like people want to

545
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 3: buy from people they like or people they love. Most

546
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: people are beautiful in my opinion, So you want that

547
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: stuff to come through. We've got to find a way

548
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: to get that to come through.

549
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 2: Human.

550
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't lose the information and the rigor and the

551
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 3: brilliance and all your expertise. Obviously we need that as

552
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: the foundation, but we need the stuff on top that's

553
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 3: magically you uniquely you like, that's got to come through.

554
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: Otherwise you're just missing a huge part of why someone

555
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 3: would say yes and do business with you or whatever.

556
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: Go on a journey with you.

557
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 2: It's so interesting.

558
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: By the way, as you're describing I'm like, I literally

559
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: will open speaking gig. If I'm speaking with like people

560
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: with all PhDs, like doctors and stuff, I'll make a

561
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: joke about myself as soon as I go up and

562
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: be like I'm the only one with no PhD here

563
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: to try and like doubt, like like, make a joke

564
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: about myself, get the room laughing, and then I feel

565
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: like we're all on the same team.

566
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: Sure, but yeah, so what you're doing that a part though? Yeah, no, no,

567
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a brilliant technique. But what you're doing

568
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 3: there is called shifting the tone. In my opinion, Yeah, yeah,

569
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 3: so again I came up with a bunch of these

570
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: snappy titles, some other a bit lame. But anyway, shifting

571
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 3: the tone is about any any room. Let's take that

572
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: PhD room. There's a tone in that room. Yeah, there's

573
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: a seriousness, there's an education level, there's a you know,

574
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: we know our stuff mood. Someone like you comes up

575
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: and makes a joke about not having a PhD. The

576
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 3: whole audience goes, oh, okay, this is different. Yeah now

577
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: I'm interested.

578
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, cool, But it feels scary doing that.

579
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: It feels you know, I've got a room where you know.

580
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: A lot of highly respected people. But I think this

581
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: is the thing.

582
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: And I definitely read it in the humor section of

583
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: your book where it was one of the options you

584
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: write about where you can take the mickey out of yourself,

585
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: like using it that.

586
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: Kind of Aussie humor vibe. And how important do you.

587
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: Think humor is, because like, I love the way you

588
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: describe it and how it can it's not just another

589
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: way to humanize yourself, right.

590
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you'll remember from the book the claim methodize.

591
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: Yeah so, Ellen claim is likability. Humor is a really

592
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: lovely hot wire to likability. Yeah. So I'm not going

593
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: to say that humor is always appropriate or even necessar,

594
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: but I think likability is so you need to be

595
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: generating likability. Humor's one way to do it.

596
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, smart, Yeah, so smart? Can we dive into

597
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: it written down here?

598
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: I love it? Claim confidence, likability, authenticity, influence, and memorability.

599
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: These are the five traits that I believe a great

600
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 3: public speaker needs to have, great presenter needs to have

601
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: And each of them have an internal and I guess

602
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 3: an external side. So, for example, level one of confidence

603
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: is I need to feel confident myself. So I need

604
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 3: to be confident. I need to have had a plan

605
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: rehearsed and a bunch of other things. But this second level,

606
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 3: which is just as important, is I need to demonstrate

607
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 3: that confidence. I need the audience to realize I am confident.

608
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: Now that may sound like a bit of a nuance,

609
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: but it's quite a big deal because again, I've worked

610
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 3: with clients that tell me they are truly confident. When

611
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: they public speak, they don't come off as confident, maybe

612
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: because of their body language or the tone of their voice,

613
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,479
Speaker 3: or the fact that they're not bringing humor in, or

614
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: the fact they're taking it too seriously, or the fact

615
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 3: that they don't really want to seem to engage and

616
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 3: have a conversation with you on it. You know, all

617
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: these things have a subliminal, sometimes conscious effect on the

618
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: audience to think, actually, I don't think this person's that confident.

619
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 3: All of them are like that. So across the whole methodology,

620
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 3: I love it. You need it for yourself, you need

621
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: to cultivate it like that, Yeah, but you also need

622
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: to demonstrate it.

623
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, which it's so I'm going to share a just

624
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: a story with you, and I'd love to get your

625
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: take on it. I was doing a public speaking gig

626
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: at a really really big venue, high ceiling, high walk,

627
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: so it was all that you needed the audience in

628
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: their seats for it to cross over. And next to

629
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: where the stage was was kind of like a marketplace.

630
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: People could in breaks, could walk through the market, grab snacks.

631
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: All that kind of thing.

632
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: And they were running low on time, and so they

633
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: sent everyone to break and because I had been sitting

634
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: down for two and a half hours, other speakers had

635
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: gone ahead of me. And I love what you talk

636
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: about with the team. If one speaker ends, they should

637
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: get ready for the next speaker to come on bubbles.

638
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: And they'd sent them off to get snacks and food,

639
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: and I'm getting miped up and they're like, okay, you're

640
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: on LAWLA. And I could see the queue for the

641
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: food and there was nobody sitting in the audience, and

642
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: I just looked at I'd got straight off the plane

643
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: from LA, so I probably had fresh American energy. And

644
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I'm not going on, and they said

645
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: what I said, Oh, as soon as they come back

646
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: from food, like I'll go on, but there's just no

647
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: point in me talking to it a dead room that

648
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: there's literally nobody in their seats, and they're like, oh, well,

649
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: we've got other people after you. And I was like, okay,

650
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: let me know what you want to do, but I'm

651
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: not going on. And I think they waited fifteen minutes

652
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: for people to like come back, obviously, Like that took

653
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: a bit of bullsiness and courage to the point that

654
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: my boyfriend mattran and he's like, is everything okay? They're

655
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: calling your name on stage and I was like, there's

656
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: no audience. I'm not going on, like like, and it

657
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: took a while to build, like even once I got

658
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: on something, I really it's probably that I would I've

659
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: heard you describe times where it's been tricky, but like

660
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: it's the only time I've been like I don't really

661
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: want to be here right now. Like I've got on stage,

662
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: like half the audience was back, half was eating, and

663
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: then by the end it was like pumping again and

664
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: nice and full. But it was a really hard situation

665
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: to be in because you've got a whole sound crew,

666
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, you've got a whole production team that like

667
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: you got to get on now, otherwise you're going to

668
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: push out bigger names than you, so you're getting told

669
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. And it was a very confronting scenario that

670
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: I would have straightway lost my confidence, like and I

671
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: had to like stand in the friggin discomfort backstage and

672
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 1: fully marked up and just say not gonna happen. And

673
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: I ended up touring. So it ended up we It

674
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: was fixed straight away. It was just shortening the speakers

675
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: before and not letting people going over time and stuff

676
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: like that.

677
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: It was a super easy technical fix.

678
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: But in that scenario, was that the right thing to

679
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 1: do to like wait for the audience to build back

680
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: up as opposed to talking to an empty room. Definitely,

681
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: because it was very uncomfortable behind the scenes. I was

682
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 1: like sweating behind the scenes.

683
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what. You can either present and public

684
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 3: speak as someone who's just doing it because whatever, I

685
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: got an opportunity or it's part of my job and

686
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 3: I'm just like a casual participant presenting in public speaking,

687
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: or you can be really serious about it. You can

688
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: actually make it an art form, you know, like like

689
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: someone who focuses on golf or focuses on singing or

690
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 3: any pursuit. Yeah, right, so it's a real like it

691
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 3: just it gets me fired up because that's really the question, right, like,

692
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: are you serious about this? Do you really want to

693
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 3: be an amazing public speaker and really whatever impact people

694
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 3: and change lives and do whatever you're trying to do.

695
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: Or are you just sort of bobbing along?

696
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

697
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 3: If you're just bobbing along, I guess go and present

698
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 3: to people that are reading lunch. But if you're taking

699
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 3: it seriously, yeah, absolutely, man, Yeah, hold your space and

700
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: say you know what, I need the audience back in

701
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: this seat. It's not in a diva way, but for

702
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: everyone's value.

703
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, to.

704
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 3: You, for me, for the audience, the next speaker.

705
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 2: Totally.

706
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 3: So no, I think it was one hundred percent the

707
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,959
Speaker 3: right call. And yeah, I applaud it. I think it's great.

708
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: Oh no, thank you. I think I needed to process.

709
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: I want to get out. Can we talk about owning

710
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: your voice because I have studied voice really heavily now

711
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: because of acting, and I remember the first thing I

712
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: said to my vocal coach was because I have to

713
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: speak with an American accent working in LA and I said.

714
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to lose my voice. I was like,

715
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 2: I love my Aussie like vernacular.

716
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: I love that I shortened my words and he was like, Lola, yeah,

717
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: thirty two, you ain't gonna lose your accent ever, and

718
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: yours is so strong. Is like when we work on

719
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: your voice, we're working on so many other things. Like

720
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: it's like we're working and I'm like, not even the

721
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: tone of it, but just like having access to it

722
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: and understanding it and loving it and having residents and

723
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: knowing where your voice sits in your body. And you

724
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: write very beautifully about that. How can we learn to

725
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: own our voice?

726
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: Well? I think the first thing is most people, when

727
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 3: they hear their voice like in a record, yeah, they

728
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 3: have an allergic reaction to it, which is interesting and

729
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 3: I guess I probably had the same feeling whenever I

730
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 3: heard it. So but you know the first thing is

731
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: just to get used to that and find and find

732
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 3: the positives and the parts of your voice that you

733
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 3: do like and yeah, to use that phrase own own that,

734
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 3: and then start to experiment, right, Like something I do

735
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 3: with people that I work with in a coaching facility.

736
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 3: I get them to stand up and present, sit down

737
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: and present. How quietly could you present? This, How high

738
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 3: volume could you present this? How many peaks and troughs

739
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 3: could you put in? And we sort of explore all

740
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 3: the edges of those things just to see what's available. Right,

741
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 3: Like most people, they turn up and they just speak

742
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 3: in their normal voice or whatever voice presents in that moment,

743
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 3: and if they're nervous, it's usually quite a you know,

744
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 3: actually quite a different voice to their normal speaking voice

745
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 3: with their friends and family. So they just sort of again,

746
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 3: they just do whatever they do as a participant. The

747
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 3: other ways to go, Okay, let's really own it and

748
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 3: well what's actually available? Yeah, And I've seen huge impact

749
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 3: when it comes to confidence, right, Like people who people

750
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 3: who suddenly find this more commanding, stronger voice. It just

751
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 3: positions you completely differently in the room.

752
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: Oh, voice is like a superpower that and I think

753
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: if you love it and you love your own voice.

754
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: A lot of people say to me when they come

755
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: on the pod, I've heard it's really good, but I

756
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: don't like listening to my voice.

757
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: I'm not going to listen to it. I'm like, oh, no,

758
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 2: you go, and I will. This is going to sound

759
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: really I will.

760
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: Book people sometimes dependent on that, like oh hear someone's

761
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: voice and be like, I got to I got to

762
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: interview that person because of the timber or the tone

763
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: voice is like, it's a whole You could do a

764
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: whole book on how to access your voice, and like, yeah, look.

765
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 3: You could, and I certainly don't know enough about it

766
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: to right.

767
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: I just love that you did write.

768
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do know that it has a big

769
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 3: impact on whether or not you're going to get a

770
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: yes or a no in that room. Therefore, I focused

771
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 3: on it. I get my teams to focus on it,

772
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: and I get people that I coach to focus on

773
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 3: it because I know it can unlock value, right, Like,

774
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 3: it's one of the It's one of the sort of

775
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 3: weapons or muscles you've got that you can use two

776
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 3: influence to engage. So why not use it? Right?

777
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: Like?

778
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 3: Why not try and access something that can really land

779
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: you in a room? I mean, I think about my

780
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: daily job, and I try and think about any room

781
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 3: I go into. I think to myself, Okay, what's the

782
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: first thing I'm going to say? But equally importantly, how

783
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: am I going to say it? Right? So I often

784
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 3: find myself in rooms of I don't know, teen to

785
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 3: twenty people. We're throwing around ideas in advertising, and there's

786
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: lots of different people talking and opinions and everything else.

787
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 3: I like to sit back, think about what I'm first

788
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: going to say, and then deliver it vocally in a

789
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: way that has a point of view. I guess more

790
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: than just what I'm saying, And over the years of

791
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 3: my career, I've found that to be quite powerful. Right, Like,

792
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 3: you can actually say a lot less but say it well,

793
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: and you can have more impact than jabbering on in

794
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 3: a sort of I don't know, monotone normal voice. You

795
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: actually say a lot less and have a bigger impact,

796
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 3: and that becomes a fun experiment, right You then can

797
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 3: sort of play with that, and hey, I don't know,

798
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: I've got a keynote coming up to forty five minute slot.

799
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: I wonder how few words I could say in that

800
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 3: forty five minutes, you know, I wonder if I could

801
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 3: get it to under three hundred words, that'd be interesting.

802
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 3: How could we play you know what I mean? And

803
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: then you experiment and play with it. And again back

804
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: to your point about me being obsessed with this, Clearly

805
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 3: I'm sort of playing all these games and running all

806
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 3: these experiments, and maybe that's not for everybody, but I

807
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 3: think what everyone should try and do is just try

808
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: and find some of those edges, right, Like, don't assume

809
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 3: that you've got an hour, therefore you need forty slides,

810
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: Therefore you need this, you know, this much information. What

811
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: if you did it with three slides? Try it right,

812
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 3: and maybe try it on a dress rehearsal, right, Like,

813
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 3: get your team around, try it just with them, see

814
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 3: how it lands. Right, Maybe it's a twenty minute conversation

815
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: on three slides and then you wrote to Q and

816
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 3: A and then you give them an early mark of

817
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 3: ten minutes. That's a very very different meeting. Yeah, then

818
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: high client, here comes one hundred slides wall to wall. Yeah,

819
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 3: you know, hey, I've got a current stuff I've got

820
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 3: to go. And then the meeting ends and off they

821
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: go and nothing really happened. Yeah, a bunch of information

822
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 3: was transferred, but nothing really happened, No one felt nothing,

823
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 3: no one actually made a decision, and you carry on

824
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 3: to the next meeting.

825
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

826
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 3: You know, Like I work with a lot of big

827
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 3: businesses where I watch meetings transpire like that over and

828
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 3: over and over. Right, it's just really ineffective meetings. Lots

829
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 3: of information, not much decision making, and not much difference,

830
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 3: so just it all just blends and it becomes the week,

831
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: the month, the year.

832
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you want that cut through? Yeah? I

833
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 2: think I read as well.

834
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: You said like a lower of like we kind of

835
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: respond to that lowers, And as I was reading, I

836
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: was like, yes, I don't.

837
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: Trust people when they lift their pitch too high.

838
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 1: I always think something's wrong when someone lifts their pitch,

839
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: like or they're fibbing or lying. If a pitch goes

840
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: too high. Maybe they just don't trust what they're saying

841
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: and it comes across. But like having a lower.

842
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 3: I think it demonstrates confidence, right, like a lower chamber.

843
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 3: It just feels like you're more sort of I don't know,

844
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: grounded and confident and maybe a bit more sort of

845
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 3: leaned back, if you will, like physically a bit like yeah, okay,

846
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: I can sort of be here rather than you know,

847
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 3: out the front like a mere cat. That's just a

848
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: very different tone.

849
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

850
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think lower lower is powerful, But at

851
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,479
Speaker 3: the same time, I don't think it's necessarily about Okay,

852
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 3: how do I make my voice lower? You know what

853
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 3: I mean? And I know you aren't saying that, but yeah,

854
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: you know, I do run into people over my travels

855
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 3: who have done a lot of work in this space

856
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 3: and they figured out a bunch of systems and they're

857
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 3: basically rolling out a system, and you can feel them

858
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 3: putting on the public speaking voice. You can feel them

859
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 3: and see them doing the public speaking body language and

860
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 3: the you know, and again that feels formulaic, and back

861
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 3: to claim, you start losing some of that a authenticity

862
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: because you're like, wait a second, is this sort of

863
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 3: you know, what is this like? Am I being tricked?

864
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: Is this sort of is this there real?

865
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

866
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 3: Well or really something that's been created? Yeah?

867
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: Well that's what I find really funny being a touring speaker.

868
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: So if you get booked for a gig that tours,

869
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: so you're often on the road with potentially four or

870
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: five other speakers, and you'd be surprised how many people

871
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: say the exact same thing, word for word, move across

872
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: the stage at the exact same point, word for word,

873
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: and I'm sitting off stage being like, holy moly, I

874
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: set a new topic each time. Like, but I probably

875
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: sit a little bit too loose, I would say, because

876
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 1: I will sometimes be a bit sweaty part of me,

877
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: Like Loly, you should have probably gone over that bit

878
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: a bit more, but you do learn a bit.

879
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: I like to stumble and learn, and so I sit more.

880
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: But it's I must admit like and I I remember

881
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: years ago I was touring with different authors and by

882
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: the second night, I was like, they're saying the exact

883
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: same lines back to back like a script, not looking

884
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: at the audience at all, And I was like, this

885
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: is not fun for me. It's a co panelt. I

886
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: can't imagine it being fun for an audience member. And

887
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: it's just fascinating that like that kind of like false

888
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: it still exists.

889
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 3: Have you ever noticed when you know, a big celebrity

890
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 3: does a big movie and they go on the press junket,

891
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: right and they're doing interviews with all sorts of people

892
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: all the time. It's the same three stories and they

893
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 3: just tell the same three things over and over. There's

894
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 3: a bit of an art to that. Like I do

895
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 3: think it's good for people to collect up some stories,

896
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: have them well rehearsed, and then have different versions of

897
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 3: them you can roll out. I think people naturally do that.

898
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 3: But I've always found an interesting you know, you hear

899
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 3: an interview with that actor, let's say, and you're here

900
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 3: basically the same thing on four different channels.

901
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then the actors that have cut through, like

902
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: the world is obsessed with Pedro Pascal right now, and

903
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: you see him like laugh and crack himself up and

904
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: think about funny things. And on the lie detective tests,

905
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: they're like, do you ever Google? Do you think you're

906
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: good looking? And he's like no, and they're like he's lying,

907
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: and then he's like cracks himself up, laughing, and he's.

908
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 2: Like, yes, I do think I'm good looking.

909
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: And it just there's this and there's a few actors

910
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: and you can see like the joy of being interviewed.

911
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: It's a bit like the way you're talking about, like

912
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 1: the joy and the passion for public speaking that they're

913
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: I think that they're tight in that they know them obviously,

914
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: know the movie, they know the content, but then they're

915
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: loose and they have such a sense of self that

916
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: they're comfortable with whatever comes up.

917
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 3: And to me, that's the definition of a true expert.

918
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

919
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, stuff to the point where you can fall around

920
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 3: and it still.

921
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: Works, Yeah, and it comes fun.

922
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I spend a bit of time with the

923
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 3: Soak to Slay people in Vegas, and I remember they

924
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 3: would tell me that clowns insert to Slay are the

925
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 3: best at the typerope, for example, the best at the

926
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 3: performance because not only are they on the type rope,

927
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: they're also fooling around. Right, So it's like that's sort

928
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: of like the ultimate expert. You know your stuff, but

929
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: be able to be funny, vulnerable, flawed, all that great stuff. Yeah,

930
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 3: and it's interesting you say you think you're too loose,

931
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: not enough. You know, your whole career has got you

932
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 3: to that type point, right, so you're probably naturally and

933
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 3: then you bring the loser, so you're kind of doing

934
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 3: type lose just in a longer form. Yeah. You know,

935
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,760
Speaker 3: if you change subjects and you went to something totally different,

936
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 3: I think it'd be pretty risky, is to go loose, right,

937
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 3: because you wouldn't have that expertise in the foundation.

938
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

939
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: And again I find I find that with people that

940
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: are really deep on a subject matter, then naturally they've

941
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 3: got all that stuff going, all the factual stuff. So

942
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: then it's how do you unlock some of the good

943
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 3: stuff you're talking about?

944
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: Oh, so far tight lose is going to be my

945
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: new favorite thing. I have to ask you about this word,

946
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: and I may say it wrong. I may say it wrong.

947
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: So it's an ancient Greek word par heesia paresia, speaking

948
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: courageously and without fear.

949
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I love it. How like where did you stumble

950
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: across that?

951
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 3: Oh? Look, you know you do research for books like

952
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,919
Speaker 3: this and you try and find, you know, interesting things.

953
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: To build made. It's very good.

954
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And look, I mean really everything we've spoken about

955
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: is about being fearless, getting out there and just trying things, experimenting, ye,

956
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: having a plan, having the fundamentals. But at the end

957
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 3: of the day, what engages is people out there being

958
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: fearless and really going for it, right, Like that, that's

959
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 3: what you want to see on a stage in a meeting.

960
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 3: You know, you spoke about those celebrities. They're being fearless, right,

961
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 3: They've been really vulnerable. They're okay with being wrong or

962
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 3: funny or whatever, self centered, googling themselves, whatever it may be.

963
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 3: You know, that's the stuff that's really engaging. I'm sure

964
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 3: you remember that series where famous people reading nasty tweets. Yeah,

965
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 3: I mean that's a formula, but effectively it is manufacturing

966
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 3: that tone.

967
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: And fantastic, and it's super engosing, and you can see

968
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: the actors that think it's so funny, and you can

969
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: see the actors that take it very seriously and the

970
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: ones that can laugh at themselves.

971
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 2: You automatically like, isn't it fascinating?

972
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a few formulas like that out there. I

973
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 3: mean another one is carpool karaoke. You know again, it's

974
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 3: like you get these people who are sort of untouchable

975
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: and seem to be perfect on stage, you slap them

976
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 3: in a car and suddenly they're so different, so vulnerable.

977
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 3: And yes, the great ones, the ones that are just

978
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 3: so watchable, just happy to be all that good stuff.

979
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 3: It's super engaging.

980
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: And even the ones that aren't comfortable in the public space,

981
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: like Achillian Murphy is a really great example. He's openly

982
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: says he's anxious being inter feod loves acting. And so

983
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: then all these memes came out about him looking uninterested

984
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: in interviews, and to see him now be in food,

985
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: he's like that interview came out from when no one

986
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: even knew what a meme was, and it actually has

987
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: turned him into this like he is the poster boy

988
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 1: for an introvert with an extroverts job, and it's worked

989
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: in his favor because he's so human and honest in

990
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: every interview he does, even though he is openly really

991
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: uncomfortable because like people go, what are you doing in

992
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: spare time? He's like, I'm really boring, and so people

993
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: are automatically like, Okay, you're cool, because there's something about

994
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: human behavior when you see someone just being themselves that

995
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: is addicted. You're just like, well, I want more of

996
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: that versus like the way talking about like the stuff

997
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: that kind of feels false when you can tell someone

998
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: has learn a script so so to the point that

999
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: I and you've got a beautiful quote where it's like

1000
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: an acting coach said this to me too, and it's

1001
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: really similar to something you walk and she said with acting,

1002
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: she's like, Madgie, you've got a little bird in your hand,

1003
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: and if.

1004
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: You hold on to that thing so tight, you're going

1005
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 2: to kill it.

1006
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 1: But also if you let your hands go, the bird's

1007
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: going to either drop to the ground if it can't

1008
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: fly yet, or you can lose it. Right, So it's

1009
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: about that happy medium of like creating a safe space

1010
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: for it to let it just be and it's that

1011
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: same with all of this. It just feels like it's

1012
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: like you've got to like have some sense of it,

1013
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: but also be really willing to just like let it be. Yep,

1014
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: I could talk to you all day long. What is

1015
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: one thing that you would want if people pick up

1016
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: this book listen to this pod. What's something that you

1017
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: would want people to take away from our chat today

1018
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: from reading your book.

1019
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 3: Look, I think my main message is absolutely anybody can

1020
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: and should be great at public speaking, Like there's no

1021
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 3: reason why people can't do it. I certainly came from

1022
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: a place of being terrible to at least a place

1023
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 3: now where I really enjoy it and I get told

1024
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 3: I'm okay at it, So you know, anyone can do it,

1025
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: And I would invite people to give it a go

1026
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of joy in it. Once you

1027
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: just find a little bit, even the smallest bit of success,

1028
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 3: it becomes a really lovely pursuit. There's lots of rewards

1029
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,959
Speaker 3: at the end of that. And look, you know what,

1030
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 3: if you can do everything in your life by yourself

1031
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 3: without the help of anybody else, well, this book and

1032
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 3: public speaking probably isn't relevant for you, But if you

1033
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 3: need even one person to join you, help you, work

1034
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 3: for you, employ you, invest in you. You need this

1035
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 3: type of stuff because you've got to influence that person, right,

1036
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 3: and you've got to show them you're confident. You've got

1037
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 3: to be likable, you've got to be authentic, got to

1038
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 3: be memorable. They've got to think about you and your

1039
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 3: cause of whatever it may be. So yeah, as soon

1040
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 3: as you need other people to do what you're trying

1041
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 3: to do, whatever that may be, you need to figure

1042
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 3: out this stuff.

1043
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, I reckon actors would love this book.

1044
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope, so for sure, I hope.

1045
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 2: One thousand percent. It's so cool.

1046
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: I am so pumped for you. I can't wait to

1047
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: see how this book does. It's been an honor to

1048
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 1: have you on the pod.

1049
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 2: Friend.

1050
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,959
Speaker 1: I'm going to have in the show notes your book

1051
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: topia link. But also you've got Winning the Room as

1052
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: a program as well online too, so beautiful, beautiful website.

1053
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: I was on it last night, so I'll have links

1054
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: to that as well, so that everyone can check you out.

1055
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: Thanks for jumping on the pod.

1056
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: We made it happen, and we took us a couple

1057
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 1: of months exactly. That's a wrap on another episode of

1058
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you to our guests and

1059
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: let's continue the conversation on Instagram.

1060
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast

1061
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 2: is available on all streaming platforms.

1062
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: I'd love it if you could subscribe, rate and comment

1063
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: and of course spread the love.