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Speaker 1: Now, earlier in the week we heard or we certainly

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Speaker 1: spoke more about the situation with our well earlier in

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Speaker 1: the year, I should say we spoke more about our

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Speaker 1: nt correctional facilities being at capacity. But then earlier this

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Speaker 1: week we'd obviously spoken to the Northern Territory Police Association

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Speaker 1: President Nathan Finn, who had said that there are fifty

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Speaker 1: prisoners on top of the usual number of prisoners or

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Speaker 1: prisoners that they've got there in the watchhouse, and not prisoners,

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Speaker 1: but people being held at the watchhouse in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: Now he reckons that three police are supervising them, and

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Speaker 1: that there was an incident about a week ago where

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Speaker 1: three violent offenders escaped. Now they were apprehended a short

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Speaker 1: time later. But joining us on the line to just

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the situation with our

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Speaker 1: correctional facilities at the moment is the Branch Secretary for

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Speaker 1: the United Voice here in the Northern Territory, the union

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Speaker 1: that represents our correctional officers, Erina Early. Good morning to you, Erina, morning, Katie.

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Speaker 2: How are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really good? How are you this morning?

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Speaker 2: I'm good, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me how are things going at the moment

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Speaker 1: when we talk about our correctional facilities, from my understanding,

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Speaker 1: they are absolutely at capacity.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Katie, and especially Alice Springs. As you mentioned about

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Speaker 2: the Anti Police Association, the watch house at Alice Springs

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Speaker 2: is at capacity. They're roughly in their high forties with

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Speaker 2: prisoners there. They have been starting the watchhouse for about

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Speaker 2: a year now in Alice Springs, and yes there was

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Speaker 2: an escape last week.

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Speaker 1: It is like that's a long time for them to

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Speaker 1: obviously be having to, you know, to utilize that watchhouse,

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Speaker 1: and it just goes to show you, I suppose how

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Speaker 1: absolutely capacity things are.

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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, Katie. So basically what's happened now is the

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Speaker 2: Corrections Commissioner has content did the union late last night

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Speaker 2: at six twenty three pm to be precise, and basically

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Speaker 2: what they're doing now is they're going to bring forward

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Speaker 2: We've got eighteen they call them etheos experienced correction officers.

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Speaker 2: They still haven't finished their training yet within Corrections, but

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Speaker 2: they're signing them off as of today, bringing them in earlier,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to now be putting them at the watchhouse.

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Speaker 1: So just repeat that again, Erina, They're going from where

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Speaker 1: to the watchhouse.

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Speaker 2: So they're currently I've got eighteen they're called eeos Experience

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Speaker 2: Correctional Officers, Katie, and they've got about another three weeks

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Speaker 2: left of their extensive training. So they've done the theory side,

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Speaker 2: but they haven't really done the practical. Yes, they are

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Speaker 2: experienced correctional officers from Interstate or New Zealand, but they

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Speaker 2: don't know how the anti correction works. It's very unique

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Speaker 2: compared to other prisons. So what they're doing, Katie, is

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Speaker 2: they've been signed off today, sworn in as correctional officers,

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Speaker 2: and what they're doing now is putting them into the

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Speaker 2: watchhouse because they're considered that an emergency. But haven't considered Katie,

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Speaker 2: that over the last years they've been so understaffed at

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs Correction that's not considered an emergency.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like you've got some concerns with this happening.

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Speaker 1: I mean, despite the fact that there is a seen

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Speaker 1: extra that you've got some concerns with where they're going.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Katie. Our members are absolutely serious. They feel that

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Speaker 2: the commissioner has let them down. They feel that the

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Speaker 2: commissioner has buckled under the pressure of police instead of

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Speaker 2: actually saying Okay, then we've got an emergency here. There's

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Speaker 2: issues here with the police because of the numbers of

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Speaker 2: prisoners there at the watchhouse. What we're going to do is,

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Speaker 2: if I need to bring in these e CEOs, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to put them into the actual prison and Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs to help alleviate that s what's staffing these officers.

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Speaker 2: As you know, Katie, you've reported many times, they're exhausted,

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Speaker 2: some of them are stuck in post traumatic stress. They're concerned,

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Speaker 2: but are they going to come home at night? There's

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Speaker 2: an increase of assault, high absenteeism. That's the emergency, not

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Speaker 2: the watch house. The watchhouse can be staff as it

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Speaker 2: currently has been for the last year, by experienced officers

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Speaker 2: who've been working in Alice Springs for a considerable amount

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Speaker 2: of time.

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Speaker 1: So when we talk about who's actually working though at

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Speaker 1: the Alice Springs Watchhouse, and is it police officers managing

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Speaker 1: it or is it correctional officers.

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Speaker 2: So you've got both. You've got police officers and then

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Speaker 2: we've got three correctional officers. That's a safe staffing level

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Speaker 2: for corrections.

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Speaker 1: But so no matter how you look at it, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're bursting at the seams and we're understaffed by what

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Speaker 1: you're telling.

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Speaker 2: Me, Yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: Are we like double bunking? You know when you talk

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Speaker 1: about the Alice Springs correctional facility. First off, because they're

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Speaker 1: already talking about Alice, you're double bunking in those different cells.

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Speaker 1: Like how full are the cells?

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Speaker 2: Serha, Oh they're absolutely at capacity. They basically there's the

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Speaker 2: hotel would have no vacancy sign in Alice Springs Prison.

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Speaker 2: But yes, unfortunately is the corrections can't turn back people? Yes,

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Speaker 2: the court's are the sentence they've got to they've got

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Speaker 2: to place them in there. So basically you do have

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Speaker 2: triple quadruple bunking happening in correction.

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Speaker 1: Now in terms of the safety then of correctional staff

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Speaker 1: and even the police officers and at the watchhouse, Like

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Speaker 1: how safe is it then if you've got three, you know,

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Speaker 1: three offenders who break out last Friday, three violent offenders.

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Speaker 1: I know the police apprehended them incredibly quickly, but it's

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Speaker 1: not ideal.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, it's absolutely not ideal with those prisoners. I

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Speaker 2: just like you know, Katie, is only three escape but

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Speaker 2: one actually ran the wrong direction, got so got caught

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Speaker 2: in the watchhouse, so they never left the watchouse. So

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Speaker 2: two of there was only two escapees and they were

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Speaker 2: caught within the present. The police were quite quick and

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Speaker 2: caught them within thirty minutes. But there was roughly about

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Speaker 2: forty prison officers and prisoners there that even that day

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Speaker 2: and two correctual officers.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, then in terms of how we're going up

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Speaker 1: here in the top end eron to talk us through

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Speaker 1: how full the jail is here.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've got you're quite full here in Darwin as well,

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Speaker 2: not as full as Alice Springs. You don't have as

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Speaker 2: much of the staff shortage as Darwin. They've actually put

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Speaker 2: out an expression of interest for Darwin officers to come

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Speaker 2: down to Alice Springs to assist. So they're asking for

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Speaker 2: about ten officers. There's already six Darwin officers who have

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Speaker 2: been in Alice Springs for quite a few months now,

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Speaker 2: a city assisting with a short starting all right.

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Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if you heard earlier in the week,

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Speaker 1: but the Police Minister joined us on the show and

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Speaker 1: he had said that there's going to be modular buildings

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Speaker 1: that are going to become available soon, and had then

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Speaker 1: we heard the Chief Minister confirm this in parliament. Do

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Speaker 1: you have any detail around this?

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Speaker 2: So are we referring to the ones in Alice Spring Well.

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Speaker 1: No, by the sounds of it, he's made it sound

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Speaker 1: like our watch houses, you know, like all of the

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Speaker 1: watch houses are going to be going back to the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police by Mijia, and that there's going to

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Speaker 1: be modulars become available. Like have you heard anything about that?

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Speaker 2: We haven't really heard too much, Katie, because they always

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Speaker 2: keep saying that the watch houses are going to go

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Speaker 2: back to police. But if more and more, you know,

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Speaker 2: more and more people are getting arrested, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: and if there's an overfill in the corrections in the prison,

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Speaker 2: they need to be put somewhere because we don't have

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Speaker 2: a remand center here in Katie. So basically nearly sixty

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Speaker 2: percent of prisoners who are in the crectional services are

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Speaker 2: actually remand so they haven't been convicted yet.

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Speaker 1: They're way huge number ham court dates, huge number. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Matthew Varley had told us that when he was on

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Speaker 1: the show last time as well. Can I ask, though,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of then the level of rehabilitation

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Speaker 1: programs and things that are actually able to be delivered

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Speaker 1: in the in the correctional facilities. Are they able to happen?

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Speaker 1: Like when you're at such a high capacity and your

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Speaker 1: staff are incredibly under the pump, by the sounds of it,

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Speaker 1: are you still able to deliver all of those different programs.

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Speaker 2: It really depends, Katie. It depends if if you've got

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Speaker 2: the correct safe starfing levels for officers in Darwin and

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs and also the work camps as well. So

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Speaker 2: if you don't have the correct face starting levels, we

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Speaker 2: need to ensure them. The safety of the prisoners So

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Speaker 2: if we don't have those levels is they may have

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Speaker 2: to have lockdowns. So that lockdown and then you don't

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Speaker 2: have programs, you don't have sports and wreck etc. And

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Speaker 2: but you always need to consider them. You need to

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Speaker 2: migate the risk here because prisoners get angry, read they

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Speaker 2: get frustrated, which could lead to riots.

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Speaker 1: So Erona, from the union's perspective, I mean, are we

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Speaker 1: in a situation where we need to increase the capacity

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Speaker 1: at those correctional facilities. We need you know, we need

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Speaker 1: more space because unfortunately we're seeing the level of crime

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Speaker 1: increase across the Northern Territory. That's not me making it

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Speaker 1: up that stats we're seeing the level of crime increase.

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Speaker 1: You know, do we need bigger prisons?

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Speaker 2: I don't know if we need bigger prisons, Katie. I

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Speaker 2: actually think we need remand centers in Alice Springs and

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Speaker 2: Darwin that would actually significantly decrease basically the prison numbers

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Speaker 2: in both Darwin and Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, So more in terms of that remand and

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Speaker 1: making sure that there's somewhere for those prisoners that are

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Speaker 1: on all of those people that are on remand because

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Speaker 1: obviously not being sentenced to have somewhere to go.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I'm not sure if everyone is aware some

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Speaker 2: of these people who are in remand can be there

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Speaker 2: for up three year king for their court date.

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Speaker 1: So when they're on remand then are they able to

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Speaker 1: do rehab programs and things like.

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Speaker 2: That, Yes, okay, they're actually with all the other convicted prisoners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right. I mean it's to me, it just seems

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Speaker 1: so broken across the board at the moment. And I

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Speaker 1: know that our correction staff will be working so incredibly

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Speaker 1: hard and so you know, I'm not having a crack

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Speaker 1: at them in any way, but I mean, we just

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Speaker 1: seem to be quite broken at this point in the

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Speaker 1: territory where we've got such high levels of crime, our

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Speaker 1: prisons are overflowing. You know, we need to make sure

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Speaker 1: that we sought this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Out, absolutely, Katie. And the thing is more resources and

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Speaker 2: police is absolutely fantastic because then we can you know,

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Speaker 2: people break the law, they can be arrested. Then you've

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Speaker 2: got the court and you've got corrections too. But we

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Speaker 2: need to make sure we resourcing the courts and resourcing

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Speaker 2: corrections as well, and that's usually ignored or Early.

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Speaker 1: I always appreciate your time, really appreciate your having a

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Speaker 1: chat with us this morning, and I mean just from

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Speaker 1: your perspective, like, aside from those romand centers, what else

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Speaker 1: do we need to do?

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Speaker 2: I think we really need to seriously consider. The way

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Speaker 2: forward with corrections is if you've got if you're funded

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Speaker 2: for just say three or four hundred correctional officers, you

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Speaker 2: actually need to fund for a NEXTRA two hundred on top.

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Speaker 2: If we've done anytime there's a resources where you've got

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Speaker 2: more increase for police, then there needs to be increase

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Speaker 2: for corrections with their staffing and infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: Well, Erina, Early, I always appreciate your time Thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for having a chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: No worry, K you have a great day you too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you