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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, just knowing that there's a responsive adult who cares

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Speaker 2: enough to listen is usually enough for a child to

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Speaker 2: get over themselves and then come up with their own solution,

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Speaker 2: their own way forward.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson, the author of six

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Speaker 2: books about raising happy families, and I'm here with my wife,

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Speaker 2: Kylie Coulson, the mum to our six daughters.

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Speaker 3: We love getting your reviews and feedback emails. Keep coming

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Speaker 3: through to podcasts. That's podcasts with an s at Happyfamilies

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Speaker 3: dot com dot au. And we love getting your reviews

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Speaker 3: at Apple Podcasts as well.

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Speaker 2: They're great.

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Speaker 3: They help people to find our podcast too. Right, so

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Speaker 3: we've got a five star.

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Speaker 2: We've actually been getting a bunch of five star reviews

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Speaker 2: have been really really exciting. The ones you ask, well,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for sending them through.

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Speaker 3: Helen See at down Under says great practical and common

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Speaker 3: sense approach to parenting with a dose of humor that

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Speaker 3: helps you reflect on your own parenting and how to

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Speaker 3: improve love The banter and the vulnerability. When Justin and

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Speaker 3: Kylie share their real life experiences, we should tell you,

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Speaker 3: mum this one. She doesn't reckon you very fun.

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Speaker 2: No, I know my mum thinks that I'm literally whenever

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Speaker 2: I try to say anything funny, mom says, I hope

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Speaker 2: that you don't say funny things like that on the

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Speaker 2: podcast because people will stop listening. Don't ever, if you're

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Speaker 2: in front of an audience, don't ever try to be funny.

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Speaker 2: That's what she says.

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Speaker 3: So thanks, Helen your boost Justin's morale just a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I'm funny. You are funny. So check out our ceiling.

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Speaker 2: I know that no one else can see our ceiling,

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Speaker 2: but isn't it great. It's great. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying it's the best in the world, but it sure

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Speaker 2: is up there. I'm so sorry. Look, if you're new

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Speaker 2: to Happy Families, I promise that I won't tell any

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Speaker 2: more of those jokes. You may not be aware of

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Speaker 2: our Our Happy Families memberships for a small monthly membership fee,

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Speaker 2: we give you all sorts of parenting help each week,

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Speaker 2: and as part of the membership, we do a book

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Speaker 2: club each term. But even if you're not a member.

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Speaker 2: We want you to at least get a sense of

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Speaker 2: what it's all about. So for the next few weeks,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be giving you a sneak peek at

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Speaker 2: this term's book club. It's actually book club run by

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Speaker 2: missus Happy Families, Kylie.

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Speaker 3: I do and it doesn't actually matter how many times

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Speaker 3: I do it, it's still a little bit scary. I

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Speaker 3: think I would much prefer to have everybody come and

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Speaker 3: sit in my lounge room so that we can see

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Speaker 3: each other face to face and instead of staring at

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Speaker 3: this screen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but book people love the book club. It really

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Speaker 2: goes well.

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Speaker 3: So this month we're actually talking about.

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Speaker 2: Your third book, Nine Ways to a Resilient Child. Why

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Speaker 2: did you write it? I had to my publisher said,

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Speaker 2: you need to know. It wasn't actually because of that

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Speaker 2: at all. I wrote an article for Kids spot Back.

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Speaker 2: I used to be the Kids spot parenting expert. Several

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Speaker 2: years ago. I wrote an article about resilience. I think

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Speaker 2: it was called twenty one mayst Help your Kids be

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Speaker 2: More Resilient? And when we shared it on socials, it

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Speaker 2: just exploded, like it went absolutely bananas. Now I've gone

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Speaker 2: back and actually read the article. It wasn't the best

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Speaker 2: artic I've ever written by a long way, but it

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Speaker 2: went nuts, absolutely viral. And then about three months later

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Speaker 2: we shared it again and it went even bigger. And

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Speaker 2: about three months later we shared it again and it

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Speaker 2: went bigger.

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Speaker 3: Yet.

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Speaker 2: It was like, this concept of wanting to have children

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Speaker 2: who are resilient was just explosive and so and it

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Speaker 2: was all very very positive. People were like, Oh, I

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Speaker 2: need this. This is exactly the sort of thing that

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Speaker 2: I need so that I can help my kids to

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Speaker 2: become resilient. And after that third time of this thing

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Speaker 2: just going totally viral and everyone saying, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I need more of this, I thought, well, maybe there's

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Speaker 2: a book in this. So I sat down and I

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Speaker 2: researched and it was fascinating because my first book, Twenty

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Speaker 2: one Days to a Happier Family, I kind of just

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Speaker 2: wrote what I've learned about is I did my PhD.

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Speaker 2: It was really really simple to write. I wrote it

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Speaker 2: in a very short time frame because I had all

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Speaker 2: this knowledge. Writing Nine Ways to a Resilient Child was

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Speaker 2: like giving myself a PhD in resilience. I had to

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Speaker 2: go back to all of the original materials, all of

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Speaker 2: the original references. I did so much research. You will

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Speaker 2: remember that I became in fact, I had to move

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Speaker 2: out of the house for a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: I was a single mum for quite a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that I could get the book written because

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Speaker 2: I put so much pressure on myself to get the

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Speaker 2: research right and to make sure that what I was

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Speaker 2: sharing was spot on. And what I discovered was that

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Speaker 2: there's a bunch of things that we believe about resilience

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Speaker 2: that are actually untrue, and there's a bunch of things

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Speaker 2: that build resilience that nobody seems to know about. And

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Speaker 2: so that's kind of what the book became.

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Speaker 3: So you kind of split the book into these two sections.

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Speaker 3: You've talked about a holyp of myths, and we've decided

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Speaker 3: that for book club, we're actually not going to delve

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Speaker 3: into the myths because we want to utilize our time

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Speaker 3: to focus on the things that actually help build resilience

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Speaker 3: instead of focusing on the things that don't. And so

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Speaker 3: today I thought we might just tackle a few of

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Speaker 3: those myths.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you know, it's so important that we do

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Speaker 2: tackle those myths because if we're doing the wrong stuff,

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Speaker 2: it can actually undermine our children's resilience, and there are

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Speaker 2: some really damaging ideas that are very very common that

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Speaker 2: we want to help parents to make sure that they

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Speaker 2: don't fall into this trap.

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Speaker 3: I know how much you love it when I quote you,

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Speaker 3: are you going to quote me?

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Speaker 2: And I did.

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Speaker 3: I found this little and it's just a one liner,

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Speaker 3: but it really really stood out to me as I

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Speaker 3: was reading. It says, responsive parenting always has been and

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Speaker 3: remains the rock on which resilience rests.

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Speaker 2: Oh, almost brings tears in my eyes. Quote me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, responsive parenting always has been and remains the rock

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Speaker 3: on which resilience rests. And I just I love that

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Speaker 3: because I think that so often, so many of the

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Speaker 3: I'm going to say, gems of advice that people choose

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Speaker 3: to throw at us actually are anything but responsive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's really interesting because sometimes, let's say you've got

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Speaker 2: a child who's having a hard time that the idea

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Speaker 2: is tough enough, princess, you know, get over it. If

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Speaker 2: your child wants some attention, well don't give them attention.

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Speaker 2: Let them learn that they can't have attention whenever they want.

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Speaker 2: There's that kind of idea, whether they're toddlers or teenagers.

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Speaker 2: My response to that is, that's not what the research says.

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Speaker 2: This idea that you can make your children safer, you

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Speaker 2: can put your children through hard times, you can be

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Speaker 2: the person that makes them struggle, and that's going to

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Speaker 2: make them stronger. It's just not borne out by the research.

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Speaker 3: That reminds me of a quote by La Nost that

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Speaker 3: actually you quote in the book, and I just again,

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Speaker 3: it just resonates so beautifully. She says, it's not our

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Speaker 3: job to toughen our children up to face a cruel

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Speaker 3: and heartless world. It's our job to raise children who

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Speaker 3: will make I'm going to cry because I think this

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Speaker 3: is beautiful. It's our job to raise children who will

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Speaker 3: make the world a little less cruel and heartless. And

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Speaker 3: I think as a parent, if I can do that,

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Speaker 3: then I've done something right.

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Speaker 2: What I love about that quote, and how could it

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Speaker 2: not be in a book like this, it's just so beautiful,

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Speaker 2: is that there's this idea that we want our kids

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Speaker 2: to make the world a better place. But it's a

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Speaker 2: tough dogg eat dog world out there, and therefore they've

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Speaker 2: got to be tough too, and so it's our job

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Speaker 2: to prepare them for it. By toughening them up. I

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Speaker 2: love the way she says this, and what she's really

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Speaker 2: saying is responsive parenting always has been, and always will

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Speaker 2: be the rock upon which resilience rests. As parents. The

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Speaker 2: research shows that when our children are having a struggle,

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Speaker 2: when our children are having a challenge, most of the time,

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Speaker 2: if they're having a challenge, they're going to behave challenging

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Speaker 2: because form follows feelings. You know, their behavior follows the

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Speaker 2: emotion that they're carrying. You know what it's like, if

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Speaker 2: you feel lousy, you tend to act lousy. And there's

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Speaker 2: still too many people who believe that if the kids

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Speaker 2: are having a rough time, where they're just going to

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Speaker 2: have to figure it out themselves. You know, it's this

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Speaker 2: drink some concrete and harden up kind of idea, And

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Speaker 2: it's damaging to kids because in that moment, children need

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Speaker 2: to know that they have somebody who believes in them,

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Speaker 2: that they matter, that their feelings matter. And every now

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Speaker 2: and again I'll meet a parent, sometimes a mum, sometimes

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Speaker 2: a dad. They'll say, don't give me all that feeling stuff.

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Speaker 2: Just tell them to do the right thing, tell them

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Speaker 2: to get over it, tell them to figure it out.

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Speaker 2: But what's really interesting is when your emotions are really big,

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Speaker 2: when you've got really big feelings, it's kind of hard

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Speaker 2: to figure anything out because your mind doesn't work so clearly.

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Speaker 2: And what happens is parents say to their kids, you

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Speaker 2: need to toughen up or stop it, cut it out.

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Speaker 2: I've had enough if you do that one more time,

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Speaker 2: so help me. Here's what I'm going to do to you.

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Speaker 2: And they threaten their kids, and that does often help

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Speaker 2: us to achieve a certain level of compliance. The kids

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Speaker 2: actually start to go along with what they've been told

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Speaker 2: to do, to stop it, to cut it out, but

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Speaker 2: emotions don't vanish by being banished that emotional pain and

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Speaker 2: trauma that the child's feeling. Instead of being able to

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Speaker 2: talk about it and work things out with their parent,

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Speaker 2: they internalize it. It goes inside, and eventually inside becomes

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Speaker 2: this explosive element that's just waiting for one more trigger

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Speaker 2: and then caboom. And sometimes we see it with depression,

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Speaker 2: sometimes we see it with anxiety. If we're talking about

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Speaker 2: little kids, it might just be that they throw their

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Speaker 2: matchbox car at their little brother's head, they slam a door.

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Speaker 2: It might be the ten year old gives you attitude

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Speaker 2: and stomps out of the room. Emotions don't vanish by

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Speaker 2: being banished. We don't have to sit down and do

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Speaker 2: this big emotional conversation every time there's an emotion, but

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Speaker 2: when there's stuff going on, our kids need parents who

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Speaker 2: are responsive and that we don't even have to solve

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Speaker 2: the problem. But just knowing that there's a responsive adult

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Speaker 2: who cares enough to listen is usually enough for a

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Speaker 2: child to get over themselves and then come up with

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Speaker 2: their own solution, their own way forward. That's what builds resilience.

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Speaker 3: I love it. I think that we actually have another

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Speaker 3: myth that we might talk about after the break.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do that.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 4: Are Screens Creating Tension at Home? Tweens, teens and Screens

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Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.

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Speaker 4: Bye today at Happy families dot com, dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now. And we're talking

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Speaker 3: about Justin's book Nine Ways to a Resilient Child because

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Speaker 3: it's our Happy Families membership book club read this month.

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Speaker 2: That was a mouthful, wasn't it. Happy Families membership, So

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Speaker 2: if you're not a Happy Family's member, you can get

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Speaker 2: on the info by the way at happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot I you book clubs tomorrow night, Kylie is

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Speaker 2: running it and where. Actually, just before we go on,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to mention that we're giving a big discount

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Speaker 2: on the book and workbook together, which we've never done before.

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Speaker 2: It's only available at Happy families dot com dot AU,

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Speaker 2: So people who want to get the book and the

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Speaker 2: workbook cheap, I'll give you the details of how you

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Speaker 2: can do that at the end of the podcast.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people think that competition builds resilience. In

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Speaker 3: your book, you suggest otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is really interesting because a lot of parents

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Speaker 2: will be like, well, I've got to get my kids

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Speaker 2: into competitive sports so they can learn to lose well,

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Speaker 2: or so they can learn how to win and come

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Speaker 2: out on top, and competition is meant to be this

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Speaker 2: character building thing. Now, I'm not going to argue completely

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Speaker 2: that competition doesn't build character. The idea that losing and

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Speaker 2: playing in competitive sports is important for resilience is a furfee.

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Speaker 2: There's just no good research for it. Now here's the

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Speaker 2: other really provocative idea, winning isn't good for resilience either.

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Speaker 3: Tell me more about that.

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Speaker 2: So when I was doing the research, this kind of

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Speaker 2: stood out to me in a whole new way. What

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Speaker 2: I found was that whether it's on the sporting field,

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Speaker 2: or whether it's in the classroom, or whether it's in

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Speaker 2: a corporate environment, what happens when people win is many

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Speaker 2: of them, not all. Of course, this is on average,

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Speaker 2: but many people start to feel like being a winner

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Speaker 2: is part of their identity, and then they have to

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Speaker 2: hold on to that. And when your identity is that

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Speaker 2: you always win, it starts to become shaky if that

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Speaker 2: identity is threatened. And then what the researchers have been

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Speaker 2: looking into this have found is that if winning matters

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Speaker 2: to you and it's part of your identity, your resilience

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Speaker 2: becomes shaky because if it looks like you're not going

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Speaker 2: to pass the test, you're more likely to cheat to

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Speaker 2: maintain your identity as a winner. If you're not going

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Speaker 2: to win the game, you're more likely to cheat because

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Speaker 2: you need to maintain your identity as a winner, or

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Speaker 2: you're going to blame the referee, or you're going to

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Speaker 2: blame the weather conditions or whatever, because it's part of

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Speaker 2: your identity. If you're a corporate executive and your quarterly

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Speaker 2: reports looking dodge or your annual statements looking rotten, you're

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Speaker 2: going to cheat. And there are so many examples that

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Speaker 2: we can pull from any aspect of life where winners

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Speaker 2: actually become less resilient because they're so caught up on

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Speaker 2: being winners. Now, is this the case for everyone. No,

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Speaker 2: of course it's not. But in terms of saying that

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Speaker 2: competition and competitiveness is good for our kids, generally, it's not,

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Speaker 2: except with two exceptions. Number one, when the competition is

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Speaker 2: all about having fun and building competence, so developing mastery

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Speaker 2: like I don't like playing ping pong unless I'm competing,

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Speaker 2: boring to sit there and hit the ball across the

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Speaker 2: table unless we're scoring, But I'm also developing my competence.

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Speaker 2: A number two relatedness this sense that my relationships are

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Speaker 2: getting stronger. If I want to destroy the people who

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Speaker 2: are on the opposition team, it's bad for my resilience

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Speaker 2: and it's bad for my well being. But if I'm

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Speaker 2: having a friendly bike race or a friendly game of

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Speaker 2: whatever with somebody that I really enjoy their company, and

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Speaker 2: our relationships being built and I'm developing increased competence. That's

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Speaker 2: when a little bit of competition can be fun.

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Speaker 3: I've really loved having this conversation today, and I've actually

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Speaker 3: learned a whole heapus we've talked about these two ideas,

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Speaker 3: these two miss this whole toughen up princess and the

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Speaker 3: idea that competition will actually, you know, enhance our children's resilience,

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Speaker 3: and yet it really doesn't. There's no nothing to support that.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's why I wrote the book, and I'm excited

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Speaker 2: for you to finish the book so we can talk

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Speaker 2: about some more of this. Well, you'll have to wait

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Speaker 2: till next month. Get way to a book club.

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Speaker 3: So the take home message for today, I have to

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Speaker 3: share that quote again because it really just resonates so

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Speaker 3: beautifully with me. Responsive parenting always has been and remains

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Speaker 3: the rock on which resilience rests.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty stoked that I wrote that. Well. Book club

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Speaker 2: for a Happy Families members to tomorrow night. If you're

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Speaker 2: not a member, you can sign up now at Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com dot au. Just click on the members

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Speaker 2: tab and you'll get all the info there. You get

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Speaker 2: to participate in book Club, you get a webinar each month.

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Speaker 2: Premium members also get to participate in a Q and

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Speaker 2: A every month and a whole lot more as well.

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Speaker 2: And even if you're not a member, but you'd like

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Speaker 2: to grab a copy of Nine Ways to a Resilient Child,

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Speaker 2: go to Happy Families dot com dou and click on

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Speaker 2: the nine Ways workbook and book package and we'll give

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Speaker 2: you the workbook for nothing. So that's a twenty dollars discount,

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Speaker 2: big discount. We'll link to it in the show notes

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Speaker 2: to make it easier for you, or you can just

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Speaker 2: go to Happy Families dot com dot au. As always,

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Speaker 2: we really hope that you've enjoyed the podcast. If you

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Speaker 2: do enjoy the podcast, please we enjoy your five star

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Speaker 2: ratings and reviews. Lead your review wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Simple to do helps others to make their families happier.

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Speaker 2: And thank you as always to Craig Bruce, our executive producer,

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Speaker 2: and Justin Ruland from Bridge Media, our producer. Really grateful

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Speaker 2: to both of you guys, And if you'd like more

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Speaker 2: information about making your family happier, especially with the membership

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Speaker 2: where book Club happens each month It's kind of like

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Speaker 2: Netflix for your family, but actually valuable Is that a word? Valuable? Value,

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Speaker 2: I can't even say it now. Valuable, more, valuable, valuable, valuable.

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Speaker 2: Lu get all the info at happy families dot com.

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Speaker 2: Today you