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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strain island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the seventh of March.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm sam.

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Speaker 2: An independent MP and her chief of staff are in

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Speaker 2: a legal dispute about work hours.

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Speaker 1: Sally Rugg is suing Couyong MP Monique Ryan for pushing

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Speaker 1: her out of her office.

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Speaker 3: It's a battle over wages and working conditions.

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Speaker 1: Sally Rugg's lawyers say it could become a test case

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Speaker 1: for other workers who are asked to do what's described

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Speaker 1: as reasonable.

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Speaker 2: Over time, we now have lots of information from the

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Speaker 2: courts as to what each side of the dispute is claiming,

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Speaker 2: and the document dans raised some very interesting questions about

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Speaker 2: how much overtime is fair. So what does this case

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Speaker 2: say about workplace culture in Australian Parliament and how do

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Speaker 2: we get here. We'll let you know in the deep dive.

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Speaker 2: But first am some big news on the pay parental

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Speaker 2: leave front.

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Speaker 3: That's right, there was a big announcement. Paid parental leave

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Speaker 3: will increase to twenty weeks from July this year after

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Speaker 3: legislation passed the Senate yesterday. This extension is the result

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Speaker 3: of combining the current maximum of eighteen weeks of parental

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Speaker 3: leave pay with the current two weeks of dad and

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Speaker 3: partner pay, which will now be abolished. The law will

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Speaker 3: also no longer give preference to primary carers or birth

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Speaker 3: parents in allocating leave.

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Speaker 2: Solar panels could be banned from being dumped in landfill

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Speaker 2: within a decade. That is under new plans announced by

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Speaker 2: the Queensland Government. It comes as solar panels accounted for

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Speaker 2: almost one thousand tons of waste in twenty nineteen. It'll

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Speaker 2: be open for public consultation until April.

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Speaker 3: It was an absolute stinker here in Sydney yesterday. In fact,

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Speaker 3: it was the hottest day in over two years, with

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Speaker 3: temperatures reaching thirty nine degrees. The New South Wales Rural

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Speaker 3: Fire Service declared high or extreme fire risks in some

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Speaker 3: areas of New South Wales, with total firebans also in

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Speaker 3: effect in some parts of the state.

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Speaker 2: And the good news. Scotland has enacted a world first

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Speaker 2: ban on an anesthetic used in hospitals due to the

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Speaker 2: harm that opposes to the environment. Hospitals use a number

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Speaker 2: of anesthetics, but this decision means they'll be prioritizing less

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Speaker 2: environmentally harmful ones. This comes after data from the UK's

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Speaker 2: National Health Service found this particular anesthetic had a global

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Speaker 2: warming risk two and a half thousand times higher than

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Speaker 2: that of carbon dioxide. Independent MP doctor Minique Ryan has

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Speaker 2: been taken to court by her chief of staff, Sally Rugg.

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Speaker 2: Rugg claims Doctor Ryan tried to fire her because she

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Speaker 2: refused to work what Rugg describing as unreasonable hours. She

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Speaker 2: says she still wants to continue her job and that

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Speaker 2: she's seeking financial compensation for what she alleges is hostile

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Speaker 2: conduct at work. Dr Ryan, on the other hand, rejects

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Speaker 2: Rugg's claims, and the case is now being heard in

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Speaker 2: front of the Federal Court after attempts at mediation failed.

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Speaker 3: Give me a sense of who these main characters are.

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Speaker 2: Dr Ryan is a fairly well known name she's the

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Speaker 2: independent MP for the seat of cou Yong and she's

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Speaker 2: particularly noteworthy because of who she beat at the last election.

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Speaker 2: She won the seat off the former Treasurer Josh Fridenberg,

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Speaker 2: and it was the first time that that seat had

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Speaker 2: changed hands. Then there is Sally Rugg. She describes herself

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Speaker 2: as an activist and a digital campaigner, and she's most

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Speaker 2: well known for heading up organizations like get up and

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Speaker 2: change dot org. She's also really well known for leading

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Speaker 2: the Yes campaign for marriage quality here in Australia. And

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Speaker 2: so this story begins when Sally Rugg was hired as

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Speaker 2: Doctr Ryan's personal staffer in July of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: She was hired as her chief of staff, which in

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Speaker 2: a political context basically just means you've got oversight over

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Speaker 2: all the employees in an office and the MPs. Rug

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Speaker 2: resigned from Doctor Ryan's office in December, but she claims

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Speaker 2: that she was told she'd be fired if she didn't resign,

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Speaker 2: and therein lies the dispute.

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Speaker 3: Now, you actually were a political staffer yourself, so it's

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Speaker 3: a good conversation to be having. Can you give us

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Speaker 3: some insight about how the employment side of things work?

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Speaker 3: In this type of context.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So every member of Parliament gets at least four

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Speaker 2: taxpayer funded staff members. They are called electorate officers, and

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Speaker 2: I tried to emphasize with my voice there taxpayer funded,

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Speaker 2: because it's you and I and anyone that pays tax

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Speaker 2: that is actually supporting the salaries of these people. On

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Speaker 2: top of this, MPs can also hire personal staff and

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Speaker 2: they typically focus on parliamentary work like policy advice or

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Speaker 2: media advice, and they're also taxpayer funded. The Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: actually decides how many of these personal staff members an

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Speaker 2: MP can employ, and there was big news last year

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Speaker 2: when Prime Minister Anthony Albnizi pretty soon after the election

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Speaker 2: cut the allocation for independent MPs and senators from four

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Speaker 2: personal staffers down to one personal staffer. So in this case,

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Speaker 2: Rug was doctor Ryan's single personal staffer, and her job

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Speaker 2: description specifically referred to the fact that her position is

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Speaker 2: a combination of what would have otherwise been three or

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Speaker 2: four roles previously, including a chief of staff, parliamentary and

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Speaker 2: policy advisor, and media advisor, but that the new limit

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Speaker 2: from PM Albanesi meant that she had to do them

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Speaker 2: all in her single job as chief of staff. Rugs

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Speaker 2: salary was over one hundred and thirty thousand dollars a year,

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Speaker 2: as well as a staff allowance of over thirty thousand dollars,

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Speaker 2: and that bonus was paid to recognize the extra hours

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Speaker 2: of work and travel expected in the job.

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Speaker 3: Okay, where's Sally Rugg saying this all went wrong?

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Speaker 2: So the main dispute between Rug and doctor Ryan is

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Speaker 2: over the work hours and responsibilities. Rug claims that she

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Speaker 2: often worked over seventy hours a week, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's important to say that that a standard work week,

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Speaker 2: according to the Fairwork Onbardsman is thirty eight hours, but

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Speaker 2: according to Rugg, she was still told after seventy hour

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Speaker 2: working weeks that she was not working hard enough. She

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Speaker 2: claims that her workload, which included both parliamentary and then

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Speaker 2: community work in Quyong, was unreasonable. In testimony to the court,

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Speaker 2: Rug outline numerous occasions where she felt she couldn't meet

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Speaker 2: doctor Ryan's expectations and that she had to prioritize her

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Speaker 2: family and time with her stepdaughter instead, and that this

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Speaker 2: created at tension between the two. Rug accuses doctor Ryan

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Speaker 2: of being what she labels as hostile to her, including

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Speaker 2: by ignoring or criticizing her in front of colleagues, and

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Speaker 2: doctor Ryan has denied that.

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Speaker 3: And what does doctor Ryan say actually happen to him?

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Speaker 2: Well, she's publicly acknowledged political staff are overworked, but she's

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Speaker 2: claiming the RUG failed to adequately perform the tasks that

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Speaker 2: were set out in her employment contract. She says that

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Speaker 2: she lost confidence in RUG for neglecting work tasks and

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Speaker 2: disputes both what Rugg said she was working on and

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Speaker 2: how hard she was working. And then there was an

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Speaker 2: anecdote that came out that towards the end of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two, RUG tested positive for COVID while in Canberra

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Speaker 2: for a sitting week. Doctor Ryan suggested she could rent

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Speaker 2: a car and drive back to Melbourne. Rug instead decided

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Speaker 2: to fly home, which doctor Ryan said she believed to

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Speaker 2: be extremely irresponsible and morally wrong, as well as posing

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Speaker 2: a reputational risk. Doctor Ryan's also said that tension between

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Speaker 2: RUG and her other staff made her job untenable, but

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Speaker 2: RUG rejects doctor Ryan's characterization.

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Speaker 3: So this dispute has gone all the way to the

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Speaker 3: federal court. What's likely to happen now, Well.

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Speaker 2: The court has to consider rug's request, which is to

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Speaker 2: continue working in her job. Rugg's lawyers say that she's

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Speaker 2: willing to perform all of the aspects of her role

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Speaker 2: within reasonable hours, and they argue that she should be

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Speaker 2: able to continue to carry out her duties despite any

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Speaker 2: personal falling out with Dr Ryan. But on the flip side,

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Speaker 2: Dr Ryan argues that the working relationship between the two

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Speaker 2: has been damaged beyond repair.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take a short break, We'll be right back.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the questions that is raised for

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Speaker 3: me by this story is how much extra work is

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Speaker 3: actually acceptable to ask of staff in a political environment.

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Speaker 3: What are your thoughts around that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that from the outset, it is important

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Speaker 2: to note that everyone that goes into politics knows that

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Speaker 2: they're not in a normal job and that they're not

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Speaker 2: working normal hours. Not saying that this is acceptable and

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Speaker 2: not saying that there should be the norm, but it

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Speaker 2: is what happens, and you are compensated to reflect that.

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Speaker 2: The starting salaries of people going into electra officers or

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Speaker 2: political officers are a bit higher than what the average

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Speaker 2: person would be earning. I do think though, it's important

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Speaker 2: to note that the experience of working for a major

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Speaker 2: party or even from a minor party is vastly different

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Speaker 2: to what it is to work for an independent. When

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Speaker 2: you're working for a major party, there are, by nature

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Speaker 2: of how many members of a party there are in

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Speaker 2: Parliament and how many people are members of a party,

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Speaker 2: there are more people to do more jobs. That means

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Speaker 2: that the government can send around policy briefings on a

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Speaker 2: piece of legislation, they can prep people, there's research, there's

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Speaker 2: all of this. If you then compare that to what

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Speaker 2: an independent is dealing with. They need to vote independently

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Speaker 2: on each piece of legislation as it comes across their desk.

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Speaker 2: That means their staff need to get across a vast

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Speaker 2: array of policy with far less resources than the major

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Speaker 2: parties have got.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us on the Daily OS this morning.

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Speaker 3: If you learn something from today's episode, don't forget to

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Speaker 3: hit subscribe so there's a TDA episode waiting for you

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Speaker 3: every morning. We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then, have

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Speaker 3: a great day.