1
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

2
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the.

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 1: Time poor parent who just wants answers.

4
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,880
Speaker 2: Now, when I think about how much control should we maintain,

5
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,480
Speaker 2: it's a process of consistently letting go as the kids

6
00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,440
Speaker 2: get older, but letting go with the conversations.

7
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

8
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:24,880
Speaker 1: and dad.

9
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy

10
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,480
Speaker 2: Families dot com dot U and Channel Line's parental guidance,

11
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,879
Speaker 2: parenting expert and co host. I'm here with Kylie, my

12
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,559
Speaker 2: mom to our six children, My momm thank you. I

13
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 2: don't know how that at.

14
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,599
Speaker 1: Somebody trained to need mothering today in.

15
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,520
Speaker 2: The psychodynamic theories would say that was somewhat Freudian. Freudian slip.

16
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,400
Speaker 2: I don't know where they came from. My wife and

17
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,640
Speaker 2: the mom to our six children, and my or what

18
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 2: would you say, my speech picker upper a person who

19
00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 2: notices all the stuff that I say that doesn't come

20
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 2: out quite right. You know, I'm tempted to start again,

21
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,080
Speaker 2: but we're already in so let's just keep going today

22
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,040
Speaker 2: as we do every Tuesday, a conversation about helping families

23
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 2: who are having a hard time. If you are a

24
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 2: Happy Famili's Premium member, you get to ask questions consistently

25
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 2: through the membership. We do a monthly Q and A,

26
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 2: but we also answer those questions on Facebook and our

27
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,200
Speaker 2: Happy Families Premium members group and on the podcast right now.

28
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 2: That's what we're doing with this podcast this morning, and

29
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,760
Speaker 2: this one's about social media. We talked about TikTok last

30
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 2: week and didn't that go off on social media? It's

31
00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 2: been going benocas. We've had emails going everywhere, podcasts at

32
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot au, and one of our

33
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 2: listeners has said, hey, Justin and Kylie, how much control

34
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,920
Speaker 2: should we maintain when it comes to kids and screens,

35
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,600
Speaker 2: time limits, downtime at night, asking for permission to download

36
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,840
Speaker 2: and delete apps, no Safari, checking messages, so much pressure

37
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,800
Speaker 2: to get it right. These are the questions that are

38
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 2: coming up among my friends and I as our children

39
00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 2: are heading into the teenage years and wanting more independence

40
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 2: with phones and the internet. It so many questions and

41
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 2: fears we're doing it wrong.

42
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 1: And she would be just one of millions of parents

43
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,519
Speaker 1: who feel exactly the same way.

44
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 2: Every single day because social media. I mean, we talked

45
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,120
Speaker 2: about it last week I don't want to downplay the severity.

46
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,480
Speaker 2: This TikTok is so dangerous, more so than many of

47
00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,760
Speaker 2: the others. But all of these platforms have the same

48
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,399
Speaker 2: kinds of content. They have the same sorts of opportunities

49
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 2: for our kids to be exposed to horrendousness. Whether it's

50
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,160
Speaker 2: explicit material, or course material, or vulgar material or harmful material,

51
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 2: it's there, and parents are right to be worried about it.

52
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 2: Like every now and again, some people will say, oh,

53
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 2: justin you're a bit soft on the whole social media

54
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 2: thing because you just say you've got to teach the kids. Well,

55
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,560
Speaker 2: that's because they're going to see it regardless. I wish

56
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 2: that we could actually somehow protect our kids. Yeah, totally,

57
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 2: and we will talk about that in this podcast. But

58
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 2: the reality is parents are worried about it because whether

59
00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: you do it or not, they're still going to be

60
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,720
Speaker 2: exposed to it, They're still going to find it, they're

61
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 2: still going to be sneaky. And we can talk about

62
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 2: that as well. But when you hear that question, Kylie,

63
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 2: what's the first thing that goes through your mind?

64
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 1: I think about that proverb? Is it a proverb?

65
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,359
Speaker 2: I don't know, not until you tell me maybe it's

66
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 2: a quote. Okay, see, there we go. Now we can

67
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 2: correct each other. This is this is exactly what we're

68
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,000
Speaker 2: This is why the podcast here, folks, Nickyleie and I

69
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,120
Speaker 2: idea about Grammary the way we speak.

70
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,440
Speaker 1: But give a man of fish and he has food

71
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:26,920
Speaker 1: for a day.

72
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

73
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: Teach a man to fish and he has food for life.

74
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,120
Speaker 2: I'd call that a proverb. Yeah, I think it is.

75
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 2: We'll go with it.

76
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,839
Speaker 1: But anyway, when I think about this idea of control, yes,

77
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,680
Speaker 1: as parents us wanting to control our children, we're essentially

78
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 1: giving our children fish. We're just doing the thinking for

79
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 1: them in order to keep them safe.

80
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,320
Speaker 2: And it's understandable, like we want to keep our kids

81
00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,120
Speaker 2: safe and we have an obligation to do so. And

82
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 2: it's easy, Yeah, it is.

83
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: It's so easy to make the decisions as adults, with

84
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,920
Speaker 1: clarity of thought and recognizing and seeing all of the

85
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 1: dangers spread out before us, to make decisions and want

86
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,520
Speaker 1: our children to just follow suit. But when our children

87
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 1: find themselves in positions where we are not next to them,

88
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,080
Speaker 1: when we are not looking over their shoulders, what skill

89
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 1: sets do they have to navigate the challenges that they

90
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: see on the bus, in the school playground, at their

91
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 1: friends at a sleepover. They don't know how to navigate

92
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,279
Speaker 1: this stuff, and so we actually in some ways disadvantage

93
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,720
Speaker 1: them and being able to navigate this more safely. Are

94
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 1: they going to be exposed almost one hundred percent. Yes,

95
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,320
Speaker 1: they are going to be exposed to things that you

96
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,640
Speaker 1: wish that they never knew, had never seen. Just as

97
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 1: a parent, it's a reality. And as much as we

98
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,720
Speaker 1: would love to bubble our kids, and we have been

99
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 1: through this so many times, we just wish we could.

100
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 2: We're going through it time now, fifth time.

101
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,120
Speaker 1: One to go pull them out of everything and just

102
00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 1: keep them locked in the bedroom, don't talk to anyone,

103
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:12,960
Speaker 1: don't listen to anything, do.

104
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,559
Speaker 2: I look at anything, stay away from screen.

105
00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 1: It's just it's not real life. So the opportunity we

106
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 1: have as parents to not control, but to teach is

107
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 1: time consuming, heartbreaking and hard work. And like you said,

108
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,479
Speaker 1: we're now going through this for the fifth time. But

109
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,279
Speaker 1: it makes such a difference in the relationship that we

110
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 1: have with our children, in our capacity to hear their concerns,

111
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 1: their worries, their fears, and how it makes them look

112
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 1: if they are the only child who you know, doesn't

113
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 1: have social media as.

114
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,840
Speaker 2: Our grade seven daughter keeps on reminding.

115
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,200
Speaker 1: Us and what they see is appropriate use, and we

116
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: just get to have this dialogue with them that is

117
00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,280
Speaker 1: so much more powerful because when we're not there, that

118
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 1: dialogue can continue.

119
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,600
Speaker 2: There's that metaphor, it's not a proverb, it's a metaphor

120
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 2: that I use all the time, and that is that

121
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 2: you can fence the pool, but you can't fence the ocean.

122
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,599
Speaker 2: So from a social media and screens perspective, what that

123
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,880
Speaker 2: essentially means is, Yeah, you can have all the rules

124
00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,880
Speaker 2: in the world, you can have all the protective layers,

125
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,719
Speaker 2: you can have all the security and all the filters

126
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,640
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff that you want on

127
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,840
Speaker 2: your devices at home. Your screen's at home, But your

128
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 2: kids don't stay at home. They don't go swimming just

129
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 2: in your swimming pool. They also go swimming in the

130
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 2: lakes and the rivers and the oceans and their friends

131
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,839
Speaker 2: pools and that kind of thing. And not everywhere that

132
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 2: they go, not everybody of water that they go near,

133
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,520
Speaker 2: is going to have those same fences around it. And

134
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 2: therefore we've got to teach our kids to swim.

135
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,159
Speaker 1: We can't throw our hands up in the air and

136
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,719
Speaker 1: just go this is all too hard and not how

137
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 1: parameter is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, But having complete control over

138
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,520
Speaker 1: what our children do is not going to help them either.

139
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 2: Right, So after the break, I'm going to walk through

140
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 2: a model that I think is going to be helpful

141
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,120
Speaker 2: for any parent who's going through these kinds of ideas

142
00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,919
Speaker 2: and struggling with these kinds of challenges. The model comes

143
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 2: from a researcher at Brigham Young University. He name is

144
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 2: Laura Walker, and she's one of my favorite research has

145
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 2: done some really really smart work around adolescens and also

146
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 2: around the concept of how we can develop discipline frameworks.

147
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:21,240
Speaker 2: That's coming up next on the Happy Families podcast. Get Curious,

148
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 2: Not Furious? Be Were your feeder mistakes lead to mastery?

149
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 2: High emotions, low intelligence? Have you ever heard these or

150
00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 2: any of the other principles I share and thought I

151
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,400
Speaker 2: need to stick that on my wall? Well now you can.

152
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 2: The Happy Family team has pulled out the best justinisms

153
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 2: for a five mini posters perfect fear home or even

154
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 2: the classroom, and easy to grab at happy families dot

155
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 2: com dot a you.

156
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. The podcast for the time

157
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers now. And I'm interested

158
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:49,920
Speaker 1: in this framework.

159
00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 2: So I've talked about this before, probably on the podcast,

160
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 2: but I don't do it very frequently. And it's really

161
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 2: really useful. So if you've got a child who you know,

162
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,440
Speaker 2: social media is coming, screen time is coming, and that's

163
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 2: every child. By the way, this framework will be useful.

164
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,360
Speaker 2: The way that it begins is right at the very

165
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 2: beginning of life, where we co coon our kids. And

166
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 2: now some people say, oh, we don't want to cocoon

167
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,880
Speaker 2: our kids, we don't want bubble wrap them. Well that's

168
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 2: not actually true. Research shows that if we don't bubble

169
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 2: wrap them and cocoon them, especially early in life, they

170
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,080
Speaker 2: start to feel like the world is scary, volatile, unpredictable,

171
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 2: random and can hurt them. And so when our kids

172
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 2: are little, they actually need to be literally bubble wrapped,

173
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,320
Speaker 2: spoon fed, cotton wooed, and looked after because they're helpless.

174
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,199
Speaker 2: And that's for the first i'd say at least the

175
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 2: first half a dozen years of life. We're supposed to

176
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,800
Speaker 2: be there as a protection for them. We give them

177
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 2: a little bit by little bit more and more scope

178
00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,320
Speaker 2: to explore and get curious and discover their limits and

179
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 2: take risks. We do that as they're growing, but ultimately

180
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,960
Speaker 2: our job as parents, particularly when it comes to the

181
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 2: stuff like screens and social media, is to absolutely cocon them,

182
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 2: bubble rub them, protect them from it. Don't let them

183
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,679
Speaker 2: near the media. It's not good for them.

184
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,560
Speaker 1: So when I hear you talk about cocooning, I go

185
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 1: straight back to being that young mu with this beautiful

186
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:06,719
Speaker 1: baby freshly born and wrapping them in swaddling. Yeah, yeah,

187
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: you know, wraps, and they're all nice and cocooned, and

188
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:11,079
Speaker 1: at that point there's.

189
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,679
Speaker 2: No fight, right, yeah, exactly.

190
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: They're really happy to be cuddled and snuggled and swaddled.

191
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,439
Speaker 1: But we're now talking about preteens and teenagers who do

192
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,880
Speaker 1: not want to be moody coddled. Do They do not

193
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,040
Speaker 1: want to be bubble wrapped. They do not want to

194
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:26,680
Speaker 1: be saved because they don't think there's anything to be

195
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 1: saved from.

196
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,959
Speaker 2: Well, they actually know that this stuff's dangerous, they just

197
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,840
Speaker 2: don't think that they're going to be dangerous for them. Yeah,

198
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,439
Speaker 2: so we'll get to that in a sec. We're jumping

199
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,040
Speaker 2: ahead too far in the polize No that's okay. So

200
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 2: after cocooning comes this thing called reasoned cocooning, and reason

201
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,480
Speaker 2: cocooning is where you basically explain to your child why

202
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,360
Speaker 2: you're bubble wrapping them. And this is what happens from

203
00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,080
Speaker 2: about the age of three, two or three through to

204
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 2: somewhere around the age of seven, eight nine.

205
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,600
Speaker 1: Somewhere in there, some mommy doesn't want you playing with

206
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 1: the pots on the stove.

207
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,760
Speaker 2: Because it's hot and you'll burn yourself. Or by the

208
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 2: time they get to eight or nine, I know you

209
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,120
Speaker 2: want to have Instagram like all your friends. I know

210
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 2: you want to be on TikTok like all your friends,

211
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 2: but there are some reasons that we don't allow you

212
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 2: to do that. And what you can do with your

213
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,200
Speaker 2: kids up until about I'm going to say the age

214
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,400
Speaker 2: of ten or eleven, is you can actually literally cocoon them.

215
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,959
Speaker 2: You can protect them, you can keep them away from

216
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,719
Speaker 2: stuff full stop. End of story. You can use your

217
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 2: power as a parent to do that. Now, I don't

218
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 2: think that that's healthy by the time we get to nine,

219
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,560
Speaker 2: ten and eleven, And that's why the cocooning and the

220
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 2: reason cocooning, that sort of overlaps through that period from

221
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 2: zero to three or zero to four, and then from

222
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 2: about two or three through to eight or nine. But

223
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 2: what happens from around about the age of five or six,

224
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 2: and you'll know again there's overlaps through each of these stages.

225
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,760
Speaker 2: As we progress through life, from about the age of

226
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:41,680
Speaker 2: five or six through to about the age of fifteen

227
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,079
Speaker 2: or sixteen, we step into this area that we call

228
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,640
Speaker 2: pre arming. So pre arming is where we say to

229
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,600
Speaker 2: our child, here's what's coming up in your life. So

230
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,600
Speaker 2: when there I don't know, when they're going into grade

231
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 2: two or grade three, you might talk to them about

232
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 2: course language, vulgar language, explicit language, and how kids at

233
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,800
Speaker 2: school are going to start using swear word And if

234
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 2: you're in a home like ours, well, we don't use

235
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 2: those sorts of words in our home. And so you

236
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 2: say to the kiddo, have you heard kids using swear

237
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 2: words already? Okay? And how does it make you feel?

238
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,520
Speaker 2: Why do you think they're saying them? What do you

239
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,040
Speaker 2: do when you hear those words? Would you think that

240
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,080
Speaker 2: it's ever appropriate to use those words yourself? And so

241
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 2: you're pre arming them by talking them through hypothetical scenarios

242
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 2: before they get there. As they're going into grade five,

243
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 2: you probably have an initial conversation about something like pornography,

244
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,679
Speaker 2: because we know that the average age you've exposure to

245
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 2: pornography is about age eleven, and so you want to

246
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: have that conversation just ahead of time. Is they're going

247
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 2: into grade six, you start to have conversations about social media,

248
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,199
Speaker 2: Grade seven, you start to have conversations about alcohol. Grade eight,

249
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 2: start to have conversations about other drugs. Grade nine you

250
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,120
Speaker 2: start to have conversations about intimacy and those kinds of things.

251
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 2: So the conversations are always pre arming. We're getting in

252
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 2: ahead of the curve. We're giving them hypothetical situations. We're saying, hey,

253
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 2: this is coming up in your life. What do you

254
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:52,320
Speaker 2: think you want to do about it? What do you

255
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:53,560
Speaker 2: think is the right thing to do about it? How

256
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,880
Speaker 2: can I support you with it? So we've gone from

257
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,960
Speaker 2: kacooning when they're little to reason cocooning as they're getting older.

258
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,559
Speaker 2: Now we're pre arming them, and that pre arming obviously

259
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 2: overlaps a bit with cocooning. But as our kids move

260
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,680
Speaker 2: into their early adolescence from about the age of twelve,

261
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,640
Speaker 2: we start to step into this thing called reasoned deference. Now,

262
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,280
Speaker 2: when you defer to somebody, say well, what do you

263
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,840
Speaker 2: think that's what deference is. I'm deferring to you, Kylie.

264
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,440
Speaker 2: Let me defer to you. What do you think we

265
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,200
Speaker 2: should do here? Kids are not ready for deference, but

266
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 2: they are ready for reasoned defference somewhere between I'm going

267
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 2: to say eight nine, ten and fifteen sixteen seventeen, depending

268
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 2: on what the context is. You're not going to say, well,

269
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 2: what do you think when they say can I go

270
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 2: to the party? And they're twelve? Right, but you are

271
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,559
Speaker 2: going to maybe reason with them. Maybe you'll still bubble

272
00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,360
Speaker 2: wrap them at that point. Who knows, you might cocuon them.

273
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,120
Speaker 2: But these processes are the important part, and as parents,

274
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,679
Speaker 2: we've got to be discerning as to where we're up

275
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 2: to with the developmental trajectory of our kids. So your cocoon,

276
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 2: then your reason cocun, then your pre arm, and then

277
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,880
Speaker 2: you get into reasoned deference. Reason deference basically is, you

278
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 2: know what, I want to leave this one up to you.

279
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 2: But before I leave this up to you, let's have

280
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 2: a conversation about it. Let's reason together, Let's work this out.

281
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,080
Speaker 2: Let's come up with a solution that makes sense to

282
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,000
Speaker 2: both of us. Ultimately, you're making the decision, but you're

283
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,959
Speaker 2: doing it with a whole lot of my support, my scaffolding,

284
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 2: my involvement. And then the last part of the model,

285
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 2: the last part of the process is difference, and that's

286
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,319
Speaker 2: usually somewhere around the age of seventeen, eighteen nineteen. Sometimes

287
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:24,719
Speaker 2: it might be a bit earlier, sometimes it might be

288
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,720
Speaker 2: a bit later. It depends on what you're deferring. But difference,

289
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,319
Speaker 2: essentially is when the kids come to you and say

290
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 2: can I can I and you say, well, guess what,

291
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,760
Speaker 2: You're a big kid now, I'm going to leave this

292
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 2: one up to you. I trust you, I believe in you.

293
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,160
Speaker 2: I want you to make safe, healthy decisions. Fill your boots.

294
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: You work it out, and that process requires a lot

295
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 2: of us as parents. It's a tricky process. But guess what,

296
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 2: being a parent requires a lot of us as parents.

297
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,199
Speaker 2: It's hard work. So when I think about this particular

298
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,000
Speaker 2: listener question, how much control should we maintain, it's a

299
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,080
Speaker 2: process of consistently letting go as the kids get older,

300
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 2: but letting go with the conversations, with the cocooning or

301
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,959
Speaker 2: the reason cocooning with the pre arming or the reason

302
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 2: difference or eventually the defference. What do we do about

303
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 2: time limits? Well, again it's about that process. Early on,

304
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:13,920
Speaker 2: you're not going to give them open slab, but by

305
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 2: the time they're eighteen you're probably not going to step

306
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,320
Speaker 2: in at all because it's their life. What do we

307
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 2: do about downtime at night? Well, when they're little, you

308
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,920
Speaker 2: absolutely set those limits. You get into the app and

309
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,800
Speaker 2: you set up all of the downtime and screen time

310
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 2: limits because they're little, because they're only twelve or thirteen

311
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 2: or fourteen. And as they get older you start to shift.

312
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 2: Asking for permission to download and delete apps is the

313
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,000
Speaker 2: next one that was on that list. Well, guess what

314
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,440
Speaker 2: you encourage. In fact, you demand that they ask permission

315
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 2: in the early days, but as they get older, you

316
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 2: start to work through a reasoned deference process with them

317
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 2: checking messages, no safari all of those ideas, they all

318
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 2: tie in with this general process. Bubble wrap the kids

319
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 2: like crazy cocooning, and then explain why you're doing it.

320
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 2: Then pre arm them there, start to defer to them,

321
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 2: but with a lot of reasoning, support and scaffolding until Finally,

322
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 2: they're odd enough that you can say, hey, guess what

323
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 2: I've done the best I can to train you. You're

324
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 2: a big kid, now, this one's on you. And obviously,

325
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 2: with screens it's different to with parties, which is different

326
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 2: to driving, which is different to boyfriends and girlfriends, which

327
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 2: is different to school work, which is different. Do you

328
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like every context is different, but

329
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 2: the same framework, the same developmental trajectory applies. You're looking

330
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,240
Speaker 2: at me with a funny look like, are you ever

331
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,000
Speaker 2: going to stop talking?

332
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 1: No, not at all. I'm thinking about the conversation we

333
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 1: had last week where I just shared that one line

334
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: from your book Nine Ways to a Resilient Child in

335
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 1: the fact that autonomy supportive parenting is hard. Yeah, it's

336
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 1: hard work, and we feel like we've had this conversation,

337
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,880
Speaker 1: why do we have to have it again? But we're

338
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: going to have to have the same conversations with our

339
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 1: children as we work through this process over and over

340
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: and over again. But it's that idea that you've been

341
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 1: sharing recently about practice. This is helping our children to

342
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 1: practice new skills so that they can utilize those skills

343
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 1: in profoundly more appropriate ways. As you defer more and

344
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: more authority to them in their choices.

345
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 2: So let's wrap up with one last idea. What do

346
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 2: you do when the kids get it wrong? What do

347
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 2: you do when you defer to them or we go

348
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 2: through a reason difference process with them and they still

349
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 2: get it wrong. We need to highlight they will they're

350
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,640
Speaker 2: going to get it wrong. Yeah, like we get stuff

351
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,640
Speaker 2: wrong all the time, and so what happens when we

352
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 2: get stuff wrong? We say I've learned, I'll do better

353
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 2: next time. And that's what we do. We sit down

354
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,920
Speaker 2: with kids and we reason with them. We empower them,

355
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 2: We have conversations with them, We say what went wrong there,

356
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 2: what did you learn from it? What we do next time?

357
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,200
Speaker 2: Do you think that you're ready for us to give

358
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 2: you that responsibility again? Because kids only learn responsibility by

359
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,360
Speaker 2: being given responsibility. If you take the screens away, if

360
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 2: you take responsibility off them, guess what, They're never going

361
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 2: to learn how to do it. They're never going to

362
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 2: learn responsibility because you're not giving it to them. It's

363
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 2: about giving it to them in the right context. So

364
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 2: for the listener slash listeners, the many people who have

365
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 2: asked this question about how we're supposed to get this right.

366
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 2: I hope that this has been a useful podcast. I

367
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 2: feel like I've just shared some really important information that

368
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 2: can make a huge difference in the way we approach parenting.

369
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from

370
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,399
Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer Andy. If

371
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,400
Speaker 2: you'd like more IFO about making your family happier, we'd

372
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 2: love for you to join us at Happy families dot com.

373
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: Do you