1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Kemmy Neckopel loves a ritual and my goodness, she has 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: some good ones from her twenty four Things for twenty 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: twenty four through to her annual planning and reflection rituals. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: Kemmy lives a purposeful life and that is what I 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: expected from one of Australia's leading coaches who has been 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: trained personally by Brene Brown along with been the international 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: best selling author of Power. So what are Kemy's secrets 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: to being a standout coach and how does she incorporate 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: reflection into every week? And also, Kemy shares one of 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: the most powerful lessons she has learnt and passes on 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: to her clients that you should never go to the 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: butcher for bread, and Kemmy unpacks exactly what that means. 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: My name is doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: and founder of Behavior change Consultancy Inventium, and this is 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: how I work the show about how to help you 16 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: get so much more out of the hours in your day. 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: When I was researching some of Kemy's habits and rituals 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: in preparation for this interview, one of the things I 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 1: came across was Kemmy's twenty four things for twenty twenty four, 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: So I wanted to know a bit more about this list. 21 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: I'm very excited to share this with people. Actually. So 22 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: the idea is the twenty four things for twenty twenty 23 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: four is these goals, all these experiences that we want 24 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: to experience through the year, which should be easy to 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: organize to make happen. And yet if we don't organize them, 26 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: if we don't write them down in some way, chances 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: are we'll get to twenty twenty five and we haven't 28 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: done any of the things. I trained as an actor. 29 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: Theater is very important to me as an art form 30 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: and as a craft, but it sort of seems like 31 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: it should be really easy to book a ticket to 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: the theater. But a year can go and you realize 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: I haven't been to the theater once. For me, the 34 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: twenty four things, obviously last year was twenty three things. 35 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: Betweenty twenty three. The aim is not to cross them 36 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: all off the list. I never ever do the whole list, 37 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: but through the year I just start to keep checking 38 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: back and just looking, okay, this time of year, which 39 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: one of these items on this list would be a 40 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 2: good thing to implement? A check in with people about 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: whether we're going to do this this year or not. 42 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: So that is my twenty four things for twenty twenty 43 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: four list. 44 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I love that, and I assume that that's separate from 45 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: goal setting or working out what are your priorities for 46 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:35,399 Speaker 1: the year. 47 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. They're kind of what I call 48 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: the little big things. They're not the things that you 49 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 2: need to implement a series of actions that are necessarily 50 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: going to be like major obstacles. The biggest obstacle is 51 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: probably going to be aligning people's calendars, you know, for 52 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: a night away or something like that. But it's not 53 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: anything that you're necessarily like reaching for a growth goal 54 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: or that you're taking yourself outside of your comfort zone. 55 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: It could be that, but it's more the little things, 56 00:02:58,520 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: you know. I think one of those ones that I 57 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: in for twenty twenty four for me is to lie 58 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: on my stomach in a park for a whole day 59 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: and read. You know. 60 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: So that wasn't the sound of that, Yeah, and it is. 61 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: It's that I have this thing about lying on my 62 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: stomach and reading. It's like, Wow, how to just go 63 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: to a park with all the food that I need 64 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: and to not leave the park for a day and 65 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: just read. So that's on my list for twenty twenty 66 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: four and we'll see if it happens. But I'd like 67 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: it to. 68 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: Tell me about your annual goal setting then, like what's 69 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: your process around that or any rituals that you have 70 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: to go? Where do I want to be at the 71 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: end of this year. 72 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: I love a ritual, and for most of us, we 73 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: get to a point in our life. I'm going to 74 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: turn fifty this year and well being is one of 75 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: my core goals. So it is something that I have 76 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: always put front and foremost of everything. I understand that 77 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 2: if I am not a well being, then I cannot 78 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: show up for the things or for the people in 79 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: my life that are so I know that many people 80 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: struggle to put their well being first. It is not 81 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: something that I have ever struggled with, because I know 82 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: I have nothing to offer if I'm not looking after myself. 83 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: And so for me, this ritual has built up over years. 84 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: I now have teenage children, but when my children were younger, 85 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: my husband would take them away to kind of a 86 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: family camp that his family do and have done for 87 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: many many years, and I went for the first ten 88 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: years when my children were younger. But after a period 89 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: of time, I realized, I don't have to come and 90 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: do this. This kind of isn't really my thing. And 91 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: I thought, oh my gosh, I could just stay at 92 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: home on my own for a week, and when I 93 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: wake up in the morning, the way I left the 94 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: house the night before is exactly how it would be 95 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 2: in the morning. And I stay at home and I pleanse, 96 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: I do a fast, I walk, I speak to hardly 97 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: anyone unless I have to. I basically just clear out 98 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: my system, not anything to do with di or weight 99 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: loss or any of that, purely because I believe that 100 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: when our body isn't digesting, it allows other things to 101 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: come through us. And in that time, I trust that 102 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: I am going to pick and explore goals for the 103 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 2: upcoming year. And I have been doing this now for 104 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: nearly a decade, and anything that comes to me in 105 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: January is basically what is going to be my focus 106 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: for the year ahead. 107 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm curious as to what a goal looks like for you. 108 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: Would you be willing to share one of your goals 109 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: for this year? 110 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: So the goal that I'm happy to share with you 111 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: for this year is that for the last four years. 112 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: I have been experimenting with particular flower varieties because in 113 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 2: my husband and I bought a farm, and I have 114 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: been looking at what's going to be the flower or 115 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: the flowers that I can grow to create a sustainable 116 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: micro flower farm, and that is pianies and David Austin 117 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: Rose is So one of my top three goals this 118 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,119 Speaker 2: year is to get the first fifty peony plants in 119 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: to the first flower paddoc at the farm. 120 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: Wow, I that is not what I was expecting. That 121 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: is very, very interesting. 122 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: Now. 123 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: I know that you're really big on taking time to 124 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: reflect and this feeds into goal setting, but I imagine that 125 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: this is more of a regular practice maybe that you 126 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: have in your life. I'd love to know what does 127 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: reflection look like for you in terms of frequency, in 128 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: terms of how often you do it, and the kinds 129 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: of questions that you're asking. 130 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: I think I'm always in reflection mode, actually, now that 131 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: you ask that. Even for me with this idea of 132 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: setting up the flower farm, I had a lot of 133 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: time to reflect in twenty twenty, as many people did, 134 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: but especially those of us that navigate the world as 135 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: black people in white dominated spaces, and I realized during 136 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: that time that I want my activism to be around 137 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 2: joy and delight and bringing more beauty into the world. 138 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: And that was something that came with sitting with what 139 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: was a very very traumatic experience for many of us, 140 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: but thinking, Okay, what do I get to do now 141 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: the resources that I have now, with the work that 142 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 2: I do, with the networks that I have. And I 143 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 2: decided through this kind of sitting, with meditation and walking 144 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: in nature and being with nature, I just very much 145 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: decided I want to grow beauty in the world. And 146 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: whether that's within the work that I do with my clients, 147 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: whether it's when I'm speaking from stage, or whether it's 148 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: when I'm on the farm, that is how I want 149 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: to spend my time. 150 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: When I was preparing for this interview, I always like 151 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: to listen to the person that i'm interviewing being interviewed 152 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: by other people. And I'd heard you on the Imperfect 153 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: a couple of times, and I love those chats. I 154 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: listened to an interview that you had with Abby Chatfield 155 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: and with what I was listening to, something I was 156 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: really struck by is just you make it look so 157 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: effortless in terms of building report and building trust with 158 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: people you know, no matter who they are, what age 159 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: they are, what their background is. And I know that's 160 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: really important for you and your work as a And 161 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, what is it that you're doing. What are 162 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: you consciously or perhaps unconsciously doing to build that trust 163 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: and rapport with whoever it is that is on the 164 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: receiving end of a chat with Chemi. 165 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: Great question. You've put me into reflection mode. Now. One 166 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 2: of my other core values is connection. But it doesn't 167 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: start with connection outside of myself. It starts with connection 168 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 2: to myself. I believe that the most powerful and the 169 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: most meaningful work that we can do in the world 170 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 2: is to understand who we are with our light and 171 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 2: our shadows, especially those of us that have any kind 172 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: of leadership role. And in some ways I believe we're 173 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: all leaders, you know, we're all living our lives to 174 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 2: understand who we are. 175 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: How do you do it when you're just not feeling it? 176 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: Because I'm thinking back to my week last week and 177 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: our members like seek as a dog, but just had 178 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: to push on with work that I have, which which 179 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: included a keynote to a few hundred people in Adelaide, 180 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: which is not where I live, so involved in very 181 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: long travel. I was worried about just having a coughing 182 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: attack in the middle of my keynote. I was worried 183 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: physically I just wouldn't be able to do this presentation. 184 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: And I really had to just remind myself why I 185 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: was there and get myself out of my own head, 186 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: which did not come naturally to me last week. How 187 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: do you do it? Because I'm sure you've had many 188 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: many days like that. 189 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 2: It depends, you know. I work from home by I 190 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: worked from home for ten years before the pandemic hit. 191 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: I love being at home. If I need to, I'll 192 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: have a nap, you know. Like when I give, I 193 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: give one hundred percent. And because I'm an introvert, if 194 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 2: I give one hundred percent, that takes something from me. 195 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: I used to be an actor, and I remember one 196 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: of the acting teachers. She was very dramatic, obviously she 197 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: would have had to be, and she was the leader 198 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: of this young group of inspiring actors, and she shared 199 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: this story about her father passing away when she had 200 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 2: the lead role in a Shakespearean play and she didn't 201 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: know whether or not she should go on stage that night, 202 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: but she decided she was an actress and she had 203 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: to do the job for the audience, and it was 204 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: very old scorn and she said looked at us all 205 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: and said, dougs, Dodor Theater will always come to the rescue. 206 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: You step on stage and doctor theater or show up. 207 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 2: And sometimes I have had that situation where as you say, 208 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: you know you're booked for a keynote, people are counting 209 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,599 Speaker 2: on you. You can't say, actually, I'm going to have 210 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 2: a nap or let's do it tomorrow. Those times I 211 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 2: do something very similar to you. I check in why 212 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 2: am I here? Why did I say yes to this? 213 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: And then I just trust that doctor Theater is going 214 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: to come, and I give everything that I have to give, 215 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 2: and then I'll go and collapse in the hotel room 216 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: or whatever it is that I need to do. 217 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: That question of what do I have to push through 218 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: on and what should I not? It feels very timely 219 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: because last week I feel like I made I don't know, 220 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: twenty or thirty small decisions about can I push this, 221 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: can I cancel it? Can I delegate it? Do I 222 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: just have to push through? For you, though, when you 223 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: are in a state where you are questioning whether you 224 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: can do something. How do you make that decision about 225 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: whether to push through, whether to postpone, or whether to 226 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: just say no. 227 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 2: I think I have a few different tools because it 228 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: depends on so many things. I have clients that will 229 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: turn up and they're maybe a little bit sick, and 230 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 2: I'll say to them, you know you don't have to 231 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: be here today, do you want to postpone? Sometimes they'll say, yeah, 232 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: do you know what? That'll be great? They just need 233 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: a permission from me to do that. And I think 234 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: most of us know when it comes to our health 235 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 2: or the health of ones that we love, there is 236 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: not much that is going to be more important than that. 237 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: Not do you say no? Do you have strategies around that? 238 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: Amantha? This is where I believe values are the key 239 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 2: to navigating life and leadership in ways that align with us. 240 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 2: Once we are clear on our core values, it makes 241 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: saying no so much clearer, not easier necessarily. In fact, 242 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 2: understanding our core values and knowing what they are can 243 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: make life harder because we have to have difficult conversations 244 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 2: because sometimes we're saying no more often. But for me, 245 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: I want to be able to put my head on 246 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 2: my pillow and say today I showed up in the 247 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: world as the best version of myself that I could 248 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: aligned with my values. So I find it easy to 249 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 2: say no, and I communicate my nose in the most 250 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: generous way that I can. And one of the ways 251 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: I like to do that is I'm a no safe 252 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 2: for a speaking engagement for whatever reason. It may be 253 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: that I'm not available for the date. It may be 254 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: because of the industry that it is. It may just 255 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: be that I know that I'm not the right speaker 256 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: for that engagement. That I'm just I'm not trained in 257 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 2: that era, I don't have the experience. And then I 258 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: have incredible colleagues and friends that I like to then say, 259 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: I'm not the person for this engagement, but I think 260 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: so and so would be fantastic. So that is one 261 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: way of saying no. Another is just being grateful, you know, 262 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: thank you so much for thinking of me, and I'm 263 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 2: a no to this opportunity. So it depends on what's 264 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 2: coming through. But understand what our core values are makes 265 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: no much easier than this idea of well, I'll just 266 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: kind of deal with stuff as it comes. 267 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: Something I was reading about on your blog is you 268 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,479 Speaker 1: were talking about when your book Power launched in Australia, 269 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: You've got a great network here. It was easy to 270 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: reach out and get people's help with spreading the word 271 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: about the amazing book that it is. And then how 272 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: launched in the US, and you said that it was 273 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: harder because your network in the US is a lot smaller, 274 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering, how did you approach that task of 275 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: promoting a book in such a big country with the small, 276 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: relatively speaking network. 277 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: Yes, that was quite a few conversations actually with my 278 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: publishing team and a dear friend, Lucy Ormond, who's also 279 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: incredible PR manager, who came to the US with me 280 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: for that book tour, and just to give a bit 281 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 2: of an insight that the idea is that you kind 282 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 2: of reach out to random influences and ask them, or 283 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: actually don't even ask them, You just send them a 284 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: book and you hope that maybe they'll do a post 285 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: on your book, and there's no alignment there. For me, 286 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: my third core value is connection, and so for me 287 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: it was like, no, even though I only have a 288 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 2: small network in the US, I am going to connect 289 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: with the people that I know, and the marketing team 290 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 2: are a bit no, but we have five hundred people 291 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 2: that you could send messages out, and I said, you 292 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: can do that if you want. Great, because you know 293 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: you're the professionals and you understand how this works. This 294 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: isn't my country, I said, But for me, I am 295 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,359 Speaker 2: going to send an actual video message or a personalized 296 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: message to the person, asking them one would they like 297 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: the book and if it resonated with them and their communities, 298 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: if they would like to share that, that would be great. 299 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: So then once I put my phone down from the video, 300 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: I didn't feel like, oh I feel really smarty, or 301 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: I'd just felt like, okay, that was me connecting authenticity 302 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 2: with that person and now it's over to them. But 303 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: I know that me connecting with them in that way 304 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: aligns with my value of connection. 305 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: That's so cool. I've got to say, I love the 306 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: power of a video message, and I'm surprised at how 307 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: infrequently people use it. At the moment, I'm recruiting for 308 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: a new CEO at Inventium and I've received well over 309 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: one hundred applications and just like of such high quality, 310 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: But only one of those people that reached out with 311 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: these like amazing, very heartfelt letters. Only one person spoke 312 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: to me in a video and it really stood out. 313 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: Their personality was just really it just engaged me. And 314 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: while they didn't have the strongest resume, I just thought, 315 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: I can imagine this human being being part of the team. 316 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: And so I've put it forward to the next round. 317 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting how underutilized videos are. 318 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 2: Yeah and I, and it can be because of people's 319 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: relationship with video and looking into a camera. And once 320 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: again let's go back this idea of values. Then, so 321 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: for me, I'm not do I look my best today 322 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 2: when I'm setting them the video. My value isn't to 323 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 2: look my best or to make sure that my eyebrowser 324 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: aligned or whatever it is. The value is to connect. 325 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: And so that is the only lens. That is all 326 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: I am going with. If I had other concerns around 327 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: what they thought of me or anything, then maybe I 328 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: wouldn't leave a video. I think, you know, we know 329 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: that many people don't like public speaking, many people don't 330 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: like filming themselves or hearing their voices. But for me, 331 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: looking through the lens of connection, then I'm able to 332 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: do that. 333 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: This perhaps links in with what you've said about not 334 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: suffering from perfectionism. But something I've heard you say is 335 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: that you should lower your expectations of yourself and others. 336 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, can you give me some examples of 337 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: how do you do that in your life? 338 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a really good thing to do 339 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: because then you can have friends. Yes, you know, it's 340 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: all learned. So I was definitely someone I don't suffer 341 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: from perfectionism, but I'm definitely someone where I have felt 342 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: because I'm a woman of color, because I was raised 343 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: in the UK, because I now live in Melbourne, I 344 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: have definitely felt there either no expectations of me as 345 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: a child growing up, or the expectation that I had 346 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: to speak better, I had to conduct myself better, I 347 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 2: had to dress better. And so when we have that 348 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: projected onto us, it's hard for us not to internalize 349 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 2: that and go, Okay, I must speak better, I must 350 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 2: dress better. So then I would project that out again 351 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: onto other people, and I just found that that meant 352 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: that I was disappointed in the people that I loved 353 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: around me. I just realized that I was having expectations 354 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 2: of my friendship groups around who I thought they should 355 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: be because of who people were telling me that I 356 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: should be. So I learned that lesson very early on, 357 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: that it was okay for me to have expectations of myself. 358 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 2: I have a yoga and meditation practice now that's now 359 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 2: thirty years. So the idea of being kind to myself 360 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 2: and luring my expectations of myself is a learned daily practice. 361 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 2: And I do like to do great work, and I 362 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: like to do my best in everything I say yes to, 363 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: which is why I say no to more than that 364 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 2: I say yes to, because you can't give your to everything. 365 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: And this idea of we're all humans, We're all going 366 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: to fail, we're all going to get things wrong, we're 367 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 2: all going to have moments in our lives or we're 368 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 2: not showing up as our best self because of the 369 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: stresses or responsibilities or mental health challenging, whatever it is. 370 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: And so this idea of being mindful of what you 371 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: expect of yourself, but also be mindful of what you 372 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: expect from others, and I facilitate there to lead work, 373 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 2: which is Brene Brown's leadership work. It is incredible how 374 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 2: many expectations teams, individual team members have of other team 375 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 2: members because they're projecting onto them. Or what one team, 376 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 2: maybe the marketing department, are expecting of the HR department 377 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: and what they expect of the new project, and that 378 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: what they expect of tech. And there's all these stealth 379 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 2: expectations that Brene talks about, and then everyone is disappointed. 380 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 2: Everyone makes assumptions about what everyone else is doing and 381 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 2: there isn't an alignment across what happens. So for me, 382 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 2: the expectation, lowering it for ourselves and others allows us 383 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: to live and work better together. 384 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: I feel like it really resonates with me. Someone close 385 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: to me in my life, I feel like they're constantly 386 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: just let down by other people close to them, and 387 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: I look at their relationships and I think, man, their 388 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: expectations are just so high what they expect from their 389 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: close friends and their family, there's nowhere to go but down. 390 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: And I think from observing that person, because I used 391 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: to have really high expectations of my friends as well, 392 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: and I would often feel let down. And I feel 393 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: like it's just been in the last few years where 394 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: I've been really conscious around trying to lower those expectations 395 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: so I can only be pleasantly surprised with anything that comes. 396 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: Absolutely and one of the things for me. But punctuality 397 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 2: was a very important thing to me in England and 398 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 2: it's also part of the culture. I remember if people 399 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: were late, I made a massive judgment about that person. 400 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: It was before mobile phones, so you're literally just waiting 401 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 2: for someone. You have no idea if they're coming or not, 402 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 2: and by the time they arrived, I would not be 403 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: a happy camper. So I realized, okay, well, the boundary 404 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: that I need to put in for myself so that 405 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 2: I can still respect that this person and love them 406 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: if they's someone that I actually love, is that I 407 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: will wait for fifteen minutes and then if they don't 408 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 2: show up, I haven't built myself up into a rage 409 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: and like, how can they be so disrespectful when they 410 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: should have this and why don't they value my time? 411 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: I can just go I'm going to be here for 412 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. The stuff happens doesn't make them a bad person. 413 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: And then obviously there's a theme like as you say 414 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: with your friend, you know, and I think this is 415 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: one of the most beautiful things, and I need to 416 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 2: do this As a coach. When I listen to my clients, 417 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 2: I notice themes. So if a client comes to me 418 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 2: constantly saying this team member this, this team member that, 419 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: that colleague this, and I notice a theme. It is 420 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: my job as a coach to mirror that back to them. 421 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: I have noticed that there's a lot of people around 422 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 2: you that are letting you down. And they might go, yes, 423 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 2: yes they are, because no one is as committed as 424 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: I am, bah blah blah. I go, oh, really, let's 425 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 2: get curious about that. Is it only at work that 426 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: you're feeling this sense or is this Are you noticing 427 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 2: this in other areas, because once again, it's giving them 428 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 2: the space to reflect. 429 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: Ah. 430 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: Maybe it's not everyone out there. Maybe I have an 431 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 2: unconscious expectation or a conscious expectation of how people should 432 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: be in the world or how they should be with me, 433 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 2: and therefore I'm disappointed constantly. We need to put boundaries 434 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 2: in place, because we need to have our own sense 435 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 2: of autonomy and self esteem and confidence around you know, 436 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 2: where we spend our time and our energy. But at 437 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: the same time, no one has it all figured out 438 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: all of the time, and we do need to give 439 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 2: ourselves and each other grace. 440 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: We will be back with Kemison, where she talks about 441 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: how she manages to stay one hundred percent present in 442 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: her coaching sessions and also the most powerful lesson that 443 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: she's learnt from her coach. If you're looking for more 444 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: tips to improve the way you work and live, I 445 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: write a weekly newsletter where I share practical and simple 446 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: to apply tips to improve your life. You can sign 447 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: up for that at Amantha dot substack dot com. That's 448 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: Amantha dot substack dot org. On the topic of your 449 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: coaching sessions, what's your process for preparing for a coaching session. 450 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 2: I make sure that I am one hundred percent present 451 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 2: for my client, so I have quite a big gap 452 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: in between my clients so that I can sit with 453 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: that previous session. So I don't have an agenda for 454 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 2: my client session. It's their session. So I will always 455 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 2: start with the first opening question, what are we focusing 456 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: on today? I will check in on any notes that 457 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: I may have made from the last session. But sometimes 458 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: taking notes has you not present to what's being said. 459 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 2: You're not catching the nuances, You're not catching the tone 460 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 2: of the emotion in their voice. You're not catching I 461 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 2: think I heard this session four times ago. So sometimes 462 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 2: I may have notes, sometimes I don't, but I'll always 463 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: ask them, what are we focusing on today? And they 464 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: may say I'm still struggling with having the conversation about 465 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 2: my team member who is just not showing up. Or 466 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: they may say I know it focusing on, you know, 467 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: doing my resume for leaving corporate and maybe going into NGOs. 468 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 2: But I have this argument with my mum at the 469 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 2: weekend and I'm like, okay, great, let's go. And I 470 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 2: need to be present to them so I can listen 471 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 2: to them but also move with them, as opposed to 472 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 2: me saying well, you came with this idea with your 473 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 2: resume last week. Have you done your art check in 474 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 2: with them? What actions did you take, what didn't you take? 475 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: What didn't you take because you really didn't have time, 476 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: and what didn't you take because it was really scary? 477 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 2: And do you want to recommit to that action or 478 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 2: is that action now in the past. Do you want 479 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: to let go of that commitment? So for me, it's 480 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 2: a case of being with my client and walking alongside 481 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 2: them as they navigate their life and their leadership. It 482 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: is not my role to tell a client what they 483 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: should do, or what they should think, or what action 484 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 2: they should take next. I always say unsolicited advice is 485 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 2: what friends and family are for, but not coaches. 486 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: I lovely you say, Kenny about being one hundred percent present, 487 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: But how do you achieve that? Like with all the 488 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: things that are going on in this world, and I'm 489 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: sure you've got a busy mind, that's like processing everything 490 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: that's coming in. How are you doing that? 491 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: I don't have a busy mind. I can't do the 492 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: work that I do and have a busy mind. What 493 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 2: matters in this moment, who matters to me? And everything 494 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: else I'm happy to let go. I will make sure 495 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 2: that I don't have podcasts back to back to back 496 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: to back to back. I get quite a few podcast requests. 497 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: I'm not a yes to every single one of them. 498 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: I'm a no to most of them, so that I 499 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: don't have this sense of I'm running ahead of myself. 500 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 2: You know, for me, when I feel overwhelmed, it's a 501 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 2: sense of okay, so where did I say yes when 502 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: I meant no? Which is less and less and less. 503 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm still human. Occasionally I'll get seduced, 504 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: as my old coaches to say to me, don't get seduced, 505 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 2: And I will get seduced by certain issues around people 506 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 2: of color or women of color in the leadership space. 507 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: Your coach said around, don't get seduced. Yes, can you 508 00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: tell me about that? 509 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: Yes? I talk about that in power actually. So a 510 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 2: woman approached me to be a part of a book 511 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 2: that she was doing, and just the way that she 512 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 2: communicated with me, I was like, nah, I don't think 513 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 2: this is going to go well. I just energetically felt 514 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 2: there was something about the way that she shared it 515 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 2: and there was a little bit of kind of people 516 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 2: let me down all the time, but I can kind 517 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 2: of trust you now. For me, that's a red flat. 518 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 2: So I said no, and men, this was an in 519 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 2: person at a conference many years ago. She then sent 520 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 2: me an email and in the email she said, I 521 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: know that you said no and I asked you in person, 522 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: but you will be the only person of color in 523 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: this book. And I think it's really important within this 524 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: particular industry. And that's when I was working in the 525 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: food space. It'll be really important within this particular industry 526 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 2: to have someone of color in this book. And there 527 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: was one other family that were working within the food 528 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: space that were of color, and I was very attracted 529 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: to their work because they were the only family of 530 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: color within this particular sort of whole food food space. 531 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: So I felt it for myself. I thought, well, I 532 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: saw them, and I was attracted to the others. I thought, 533 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 2: it's not just me. So then I was like, oh, 534 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 2: and I completely overrided my initial energetic reaction to how 535 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 2: she communicated with me and my no, and I said yes. 536 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 2: It was a nightmare for four years because actually the 537 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: book never materialized. But maybe six months later I get 538 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: a request from her that was more than what had 539 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 2: originally been the case, and then I responded, already feeling 540 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 2: I shouldn't have said yes to this, but I said yes, 541 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 2: and now I'm going to show up and you know, 542 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 2: commit to what I've committed to. The next email was 543 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 2: maybe eight months later from her telling me about all 544 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: the lawyers that had come on board and she was 545 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 2: suing another person that was going to contribute, like it 546 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 2: just it just And I had started working with my 547 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: coach around about this time, so it was great the 548 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: reflection posted. So you knew that you were a no. 549 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 2: What happened along the way that had you override your intuition? 550 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 2: So that wisdom center of your intuition, what had you 551 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 2: over it felt like I should, like, I know what 552 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 2: it's like to be in an industry or to see 553 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: books or to see movies or see films and not 554 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 2: see a representation of you. And I felt I am 555 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: in a position of privilege and it is kind of 556 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: my duty to show up for people that look like me. 557 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 2: So then she said, okay, so we now know that 558 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: you will get seduced if it's around minorities, and I 559 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: was like, yes, so and it was great. You know, 560 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: that was one of the biggest things for me because 561 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 2: even now as an executive coach, as a speaker in Australia, 562 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 2: that is still the case. And I now have an 563 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 2: arm of my business where I can give in that 564 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 2: way where I am contributing, but it's not from a 565 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 2: place of being seduced. 566 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 1: Wow. What a powerful lesson to learn. 567 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 2: Very much, so very much. So. 568 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, what have been one or two other of the 569 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: most powerful things you've learned from your coach over the 570 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: last couple of years. 571 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you asked me this question because 572 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 2: I want to share this with everyone in the world. 573 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 2: And she's no longer my coach, but I will share. 574 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 2: Her name is Belinda Mcinness. She's an International Coach Federation 575 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: credentialed like myself, but she's a master master coach. She 576 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 2: said to me, don't go to the butcher for bread. 577 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 2: And it was in regard to a relationship where I 578 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 2: was wanting or hoping for something that had never materialized 579 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: in that relationship. Was a working relationship, wasn't an intimate relationship. 580 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 2: It was something like, let's go back to punctuality. It 581 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 2: was something like, this person is always late. They're always late. 582 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: I don't know why they're not always late. And she 583 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 2: was like, have they ever been on time? No? She 584 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 2: was okay, so you're expecting them to be on time 585 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: and yet from the moment you've met them, they've never 586 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 2: been on time. So just this idea of we'll have 587 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: expectations of people and I have. You know, it can 588 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: be with parents. You know. I have worked with enough 589 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: clients where their parents, whether they're still living or whether 590 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: they have passed, they are still wanting from their parents 591 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: a sense of recognition or acknowledgment of longing or worthiness. 592 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: And I was working with a client just last year 593 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: in her mid fifties CEO role, and she was wanting 594 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 2: this recognition from her mom. Who comes from the generation 595 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: of being at home didn't understand the working mom. This 596 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: did not understand that at all. And my client wanted 597 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 2: her mom to say to her, I am proud of 598 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 2: you for juggling everything you're juggling and the model that 599 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: you're being for your children. And I said to my client, 600 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: don't go to the butcher for bread. And she said, 601 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 2: what do you mean. I said, has your mum ever 602 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: ever giving you a sense that she appreciates or of 603 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 2: knowledges or understands what it is that you are managing 604 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 2: in your life right now? And she said no. And 605 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: I said, but the thing is is that there are 606 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: people in your life that give you that all that 607 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: you can ask. But to keep going back to the 608 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: same person asking them for something that they have never 609 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: given you does not serve It doesn't serve us. It 610 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: actually will generally have our sense of self lowered as 611 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: a host to enhanced. So that was one of the 612 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 2: other things that my coach talked to me. And I 613 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 2: think we all have circumstances in our lives who were 614 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: expecting things from other people that they have never promised us, 615 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 2: that they have never shown us, and yet somehow we 616 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: keep going back hoping. 617 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: Ah, I love that. Don't go to the butcher for bread. 618 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're bakers everywhere. But if you keep going 619 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: back to the butcher, you don't even know where the 620 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 2: baker is. Now. The baker's got lots of bread. 621 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: I guess if you want steak, then go to the butchat. 622 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 623 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: Oh, Kemmy, I have just loved this chat. I'm just 624 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: so grateful that you made the time and said yes 625 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: to this chat. I've just learned so much, so thank you. 626 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much, Amantha. I absolutely adore the 627 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: work that you're putting out into the world, and it 628 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: was a very, very easy yes. So I'm glad we 629 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 2: spent this time together to thank you. 630 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this chat with Kemmy, and if 631 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: you did, I highly recommend getting your hands on her 632 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: most recent book. And you can also find out more 633 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: about Kemy at kemynekfopill dot com. If you enjoyed today's episode, 634 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: I would love to ask a favor. Click follow on 635 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: the podcast app that you're listening to this on, and 636 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: if you're feeling really generous, leave a review for the show. 637 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: Following this podcast and Leaving reviews helps How I Work 638 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: find new listeners, and your support is one of the 639 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: things that makes this podcast possible. Thank you for sharing 640 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: part of your day with me by listening to How 641 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: I Work. If you're keen for more tips on how 642 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: to work better, connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. 643 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: I'm very easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. 644 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of 645 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: the Warrenery people, part of the cool And Nation. I 646 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: am so grateful for being able to work and live 647 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: on this beautiful land and I want to pay my 648 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: respects to elder's past, present and How I Work is 649 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,719 Speaker 1: produced by me Amantha Imba. The episode producer was Rowena Murray, 650 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,719 Speaker 1: and thank you to Martin Imba who does the audio 651 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: mix for every episode and makes everything sound better than 652 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: it would have otherwise.