1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: But as we know, yesterday the power and gas giant 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Origin Energy is set to sell one hundred percent of 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: its steak in the Betleloo Basin. Now they announced that 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: they're shifting their focus to greener energy and they will 5 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: lose apparently or reportedly between seventy to ninety million dollars 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: after taxes, So the seventy seven and a half percentage 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: steak will be picked up by Tamboran Resources. Now joining 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: me on the line to tell us a little bit 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: more about their reaction to this announcement is Kirsty Howie, 10 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: who is indeed from the Environment Center here in the 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: Northern Territory. Good morning to you, Kirsty. 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie and height all your listeners. 13 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: Kirsty, what was your reaction to this announcement yesterday. 14 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 2: Well, it's absolutely huge news and I was somewhat surprised, 15 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: as I think a lot of Territorians were, because it's 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: really bad news for the viability of cracking. The Betloo 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: Basin is the biggest player in the Beatloo Basin. It's 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: been there for a long time and it's really been 19 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 2: the anchor that holds, you know, the viability of the 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: Beatloo Basin together, and so to have Origin suddenly selling 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 2: out at this stage just before where apparently according to 22 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: the territory government moving to production, is a huge sign 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: that things are not well with cracking the Betaloo basin, 24 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: and indeed, we would say it's probably the beginning of 25 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: the end of cracking in the Betaloo basin. 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: So you reckon that this is going to mean that 27 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: you know that the other businesses or the other interests 28 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: set are there in the Bedloo right now could indeed 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: pull out. 30 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: I think that it's very difficult to make the case 31 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: that this industry's viable without Origin. We've got some other 32 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: players still there. One of them is quite large, that Santos, 33 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: but there's some other smaller companies Timboran included, who are 34 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: operating there now. They're just not capitalized to the same extent. 35 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: They don't have the money and the investment to existing 36 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: there to be able to proceed full steam ahead with 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: this industry. And so we think that there's real questions 38 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: about whether this industry is going to move ahead at all, 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: and whether these companies, Imperial, timbor and amongst them, are 40 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: going to be packing their bags and getting out of 41 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: the be Toloo as well, and we know that this 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: is a shift that's happening worldwide. Fossil fuel extraction is 43 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: on the way out and it's new industries that are 44 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 2: coming in. 45 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: I know that it has indeed been a port of 46 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: contention for quite some time in terms of fracking, whether 47 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: it was going to go ahead or exactly how will 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: go ahead in the Beterloo basin. There are obviously environmental concerns. 49 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: There will be some listening this morning though as well, 50 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: who are thinking, well, if we aren't going to be 51 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: fracking some of that gas from the be Toloo, what 52 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: doesn't mean for Australia and the Northern territories energy supplies? 53 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 2: Oh well, look, I think the Northern Territories and energy 54 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 2: supplies are well and truly secured. We know that there's 55 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: an agreement between E and I and the Northern Territory 56 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 2: government supplying the territory's energy, and frankly, the claims about 57 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: the be Toloo basin gas going to the East Coast 58 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: are grossly exaggerated. We know that Beelou gas is actually 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: going to come to Darwin and be exported or turned 60 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: into petrochemicals manufacturing in Darwin Harbor. That's what the plan 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: for Beteloo Gas is. It's got nothing to do with 62 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: the East Coast market. So I don't think people have 63 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: anything to fear with respect to energy security in the 64 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: Northern Territory or indeed across Australia. Both claims are vastly overinflated. 65 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: Now, last time you and I spoke, we were speaking 66 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: about the development there at Middle Arm, or the proposed 67 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: development at middle Arm. I know last week we spoke 68 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: on the show to the Minister Evil lawl about that 69 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: development and what she said is a consultation process which 70 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: has indeed now started. What do you think this announcement 71 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: yesterday means when you talk about the development of Middle Arm. 72 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: Look, it's got huge consequences for Middle Arm. Five minute 73 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 2: consequences the Middle Arm because that development and the Government 74 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 2: doesn't like to say this very much. As I pointed 75 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: out on your show previously, it's about gas and it's 76 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: about creating and manufacturing petrochemicals using fract gas from the 77 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 2: Beata Loo basin. It's about finding another market for that 78 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: Beata Loo gas. And we know that the health impacts 79 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: of these kinds of facilities elsewhere can be very harmful. 80 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: So the fact that the Bedloo is now looking extremely shaky, 81 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: shakier than it ever has been, means that the full 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: support of this middle Arm development by the Northern Territory 83 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: government is beginning to look very very foolish. Indeed, not 84 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: only is it going to cause potential health impact to 85 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 2: people living in Palmerston and Darwin because this is heavy, 86 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: heavy industry, but there may not be an economic case 87 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: for it at all. And I will mention as well 88 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: that of course the federal government has promised two billion 89 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 2: dollars for this a tax payer money for this particular development, 90 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 2: and you've really got a question how sensible that decision 91 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: is if the bea Toloo isn't going to get up 92 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 2: and running. So it's a house of cards, Katie. Yeah, 93 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 2: it's starting to fall apart. 94 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: Well, and it's like, I think it's such you know, 95 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: it's so interesting no matter where you you know, like 96 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: what your beliefs are when it comes to gas or 97 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: where you sort of stand. And I guess the other 98 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: really interesting aspect of this is when you look at 99 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: the fact that just you know, just a couple of 100 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 1: years ago, or probably eighteen months ago, the Northern Territory 101 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: government of course had their TERCI Report or the Report, 102 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: which did look at diversifying the Northern Territory's economy we 103 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: as we move forward, and a huge part of that 104 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: was indeed gas and the gas industry. I mean, where 105 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: do you think that sort of lands us? Do you 106 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: think that when we look at things like renewables that 107 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: we're going to be able to still diversify the economy 108 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: in the same way. 109 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: So look, I've been happened to hear the Chief Minister 110 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 2: frankly distancing herself from the gas industry in recent comments 111 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: to the media and emphasizing the importance of renewable for 112 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. And I think that's the right way 113 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: to go. But absolutely, Katie, the Territory Economic Reconstruction Commission 114 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: had a huge focus on gas. It was our own 115 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: sort of mini gas Vibe recovery with Andrew Liverius at 116 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: the Helm. And Andrew Liveris of course recommended this petrochemical 117 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: facility in Middle Arm and the opening up of the 118 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 2: Beatloo Basin. And that's beginning to look extremely outdated and 119 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 2: a really bad economic choice and direction for the Northern Territory. 120 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of questions about that report and 121 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: whether it should really just be bimmed and we go 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: down a path that is actually genuinely sustainable, which we 123 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: think is what the Chief Minister actually wants now. 124 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: And do you think that that is still going to 125 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: be something that can build the economy when you look 126 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: at those renewables. Is it something that we can really, 127 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, hang our hats on for diversifying the economy. 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: Look, I think that we can. It's obviously the case 129 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: that we've got some quite major projects that are in 130 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: the pipeline, including of course the some cable project. What 131 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: we haven't really seen here in the territory though, is 132 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: the same level of investment in the renewable energy by 133 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: the government and by the taxpayer that we've seen for gas. 134 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: And I believe that if we shifted that focus squarely 135 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: to renewables, we could see huge amounts of jobs in 136 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: the territory and including in remote communities. We have the 137 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: opportunity to completely transform our economy and become a renewable 138 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: superpower and export that energy. They're the kinds of things 139 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: we should be doing, not tying ourselves to dying industries 140 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: that are on there way out and clearly aren't viable 141 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: even with huge amounts of taxpayer money. 142 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: Now, before I let you go this morning, what's the 143 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: latest on the legal challenge over Santos's Barossa gas project. 144 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: Oh, well, I've got some exciting news. Of course. That 145 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: case was heard a few weeks ago by the Federal 146 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: Court and it related to it was the tee Wee 147 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: Islanders challenge to not seem as approval of that of 148 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: that drilling project off share north of the Tewee Island. 149 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: And the judgment will be delivered on Wednesday by the 150 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: Federal Court. And not only that, it will be live streams, 151 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: so there'll be an opportunity for people to be able 152 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 2: to watch that, and I'm sure it will be you know, 153 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,359 Speaker 2: you'll be able to see it online and on television. 154 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: Well, we'll probably catch up with you again then in 155 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: the near future, by the sounds of it, Kirsty. 156 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: No worries. Thanks so much, Katie, Thank you 157 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: We appreciate your time.