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Speaker 1: I'm glad your mind was blown.

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Speaker 2: It is by far the most difficult creative and performance

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Speaker 2: role I've ever taken on.

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Speaker 1: And I've done a lot of things in.

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Speaker 2: My life and various jobs and whatnot. That's just so

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Speaker 2: it's a high wire act.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

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Speaker 3: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

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Speaker 3: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an

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Speaker 3: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with

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Speaker 3: finding ways to optimize my work day.

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Speaker 4: My guest today is baratun Day Thurston.

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Speaker 3: I don't quite know how to introduce him in a

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Speaker 3: nutshell because he's done so many diverse things. For example,

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Speaker 3: he's a particularly hilarious comedian.

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Speaker 4: He wrote the best.

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Speaker 3: Selling book How to Be Black, as well as many

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Speaker 3: feature articles for places like Fast Company and Medium. He

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Speaker 3: also helped relaunched The Daily Show with Trevor Noah through

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Speaker 3: building the digital expansion team. He used to write for

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Speaker 3: The Onion, and he's even been nominated.

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Speaker 4: For an Emmy Award.

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Speaker 3: Now, this conversation is a little different to some of

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Speaker 3: my others in that we deep dive into a very

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Speaker 3: specific work project of baratune Days, and it's one that

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Speaker 3: I actually witnessed a few months ago. It was the

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Speaker 3: closing keynote of the TED twenty eighteen conference. And to

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Speaker 3: set the scene, the two thousand TED delegates that just

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Speaker 3: experienced around one hundred talks over the course of five days,

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Speaker 3: and like, imagine the impact of watching just one TED

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Speaker 3: talk and multiply that by one hundred. It's an amazing

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Speaker 3: and immersive experience and it feels like you've literally been

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Speaker 3: blasted by a fire hose with ideas. And the very

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Speaker 3: last talk was Baratune Day Thurston, who summed up the

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Speaker 3: entire conference experience. That's right, the one hundred or so talks,

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Speaker 3: through to the parties, through to even the snack foods

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Speaker 3: in twenty hilarious minutes. But here's the thing. Baratun Da

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Speaker 3: wrote this phenomenal presentation during TED, so while experiencing the

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Speaker 3: five day event, he also wrote the talk, and then

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Speaker 3: he memorized it, and then he presented it in front

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Speaker 3: of the entire TED audience. It was seriously one of

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Speaker 3: the most mind blowing performances I have seen in my life.

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Speaker 3: So I reached out to baratun Day to speak to

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Speaker 3: him about how he did this. We also talk about

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Speaker 3: some other stuff in the episode, such as his quirky

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Speaker 3: email auto responder, how he writes jokes, and why his

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Speaker 3: job at The Daily Show with Trevoranoa.

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Speaker 4: Was the hardest job he's ever had.

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Speaker 3: Over to Baratunde to hear about how he works. Baratun Day,

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for having Memantha get to be here.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to start with your email auto responder, so

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Speaker 3: when I reached out initially, I got the response that said,

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Speaker 3: try this particular email address. Yes, I could forward the

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Speaker 3: messages with technology, but this way I know if you

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Speaker 3: really care.

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Speaker 4: And I love that. That made me laugh and it

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Speaker 4: made me send you an email again.

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Speaker 2: Really, I was creating a redundant human labor at the

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Speaker 2: opposite of AI good.

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Speaker 4: I am good. I How long ago did you do that?

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Speaker 4: Did you have that auto responder?

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Speaker 1: That's pretty recent this the past few months.

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Speaker 2: You're one of the early recipients of that magical auto message.

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Speaker 2: And I think I realized because I kind of forgot

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Speaker 2: about that email account because I stopped using it, So

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Speaker 2: I assumed people just knew how my behavior had changed,

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Speaker 2: and where I checked messages and that wasn't the case,

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Speaker 2: and so I wanted to make it extra clear to

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Speaker 2: people and not only should you not email me here,

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Speaker 2: but if you want me to see it, you know,

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Speaker 2: do it again.

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Speaker 1: And I borrowed that from a friend. She used to

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Speaker 1: have a vacation message, the most aggressive vacation auto response

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life. It went something like, Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm on vacation.

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Speaker 2: I believe in proper vacations, so your email has been deleted.

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Speaker 2: If it's really important, email me after this date and

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Speaker 2: I will respond to you because I won't be on

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Speaker 2: vacation anymore. And I thought that's really aggressive, Like I

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Speaker 2: didn't feel like I was in a position career wise

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Speaker 2: where I could just delete possible money or friendship or relevance.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's, you know, the aggressive and the boldness.

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Speaker 2: You know, you find out who cares. So that was

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Speaker 2: my inspiration.

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Speaker 4: That's cool.

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Speaker 3: Have you actually done the analysis in terms of what

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Speaker 3: percentage of people emailing you at that email care enough

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Speaker 3: to send you another email?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: The irony is I don't care enough, so I haven't.

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Speaker 2: But after we're done with this interview, I will go

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Speaker 2: run those numbers. I'm actually pretty curious.

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Speaker 4: Now fantastic, So send me the Excel spreadsheet.

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Speaker 1: See how guys, it's a fast minority. I know that much.

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Speaker 3: I feel like you've got your hand in so many pies.

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Speaker 3: Like you're a comedian, a writer, a performer, a technologist,

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Speaker 3: a speaking or uncultivated We do you sit on several boards?

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Speaker 3: I want to know, sort of mentally and also by

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Speaker 3: your schedule.

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Speaker 4: How do you juggle it?

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Speaker 3: Are you batching things that you do certain days for

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Speaker 3: certain hats that you wear?

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Speaker 4: What does that look like in your life?

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Speaker 1: A little chaotic.

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Speaker 2: I've tried the batch thing and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'll email on tuesdays you didn't work out.

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Speaker 1: I have.

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Speaker 2: I sometimes create lots of time, especially when I'm on

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Speaker 2: a project and I know I need a couple of

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Speaker 2: hours of runway kind of focused on something.

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Speaker 1: The other technique I've played with.

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Speaker 2: With some success is it's called the Pomodoro technique, and

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Speaker 2: it claims that we work best in twenty five minute

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Speaker 2: bursts with five minute breaks, so in an hour you

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Speaker 2: do fifty five zero minutes of work. And I'd actually

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Speaker 2: gone to a workshop it's called the Art of freelance,

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Speaker 2: and it was designed for people who have no single.

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Speaker 1: Boss, which is probably the future of all of our labor.

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Speaker 2: And so we're in various versions of gigs and consulting

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Speaker 2: arrangements and projects and things like that, and so to

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Speaker 2: keep you self motivated, they provided us with a couple of.

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Speaker 1: Tools, and one of them was this twenty five minute theory.

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Speaker 2: But it honestly, it just depends on what is the

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Speaker 2: primary project of the time.

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Speaker 1: So I've spent the past year I've been working on

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Speaker 1: a TV project and trying to get that off the ground.

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Speaker 2: So that kind of blows up the second parity items

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Speaker 2: where those they just don't matter as much, so those

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Speaker 2: can be chaotic, But if the main project is being handled,

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Speaker 2: then everything else is okay. It's a bit of a

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Speaker 2: messy answer, kind of like my organizing of my life,

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Speaker 2: but it's I've learned that just totally winging it doesn't

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Speaker 2: work at all, and so I kind of hope that

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Speaker 2: there's this magic technique that if I just find the

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Speaker 2: right system, that'll fix it.

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Speaker 1: I tried to getting things done years back.

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Speaker 2: I grew up with a Franklin day planner before it

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Speaker 2: became Franklin Covey. I literally in middle school, I had

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Speaker 2: a paper day planner, had my appointment book with my

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Speaker 2: class schedule and my goals for the day.

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Speaker 1: I was a very popular child, very cool, nothing for

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Speaker 1: friends and very cool.

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Speaker 2: I mean all the cool kids had printed day planners

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Speaker 2: back in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: I was very pioneering.

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Speaker 2: And so what I found with all these systems is

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Speaker 2: I never fully adhere to them, but I take a

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Speaker 2: few valuable pieces from them, and the.

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Speaker 1: Best tend to maintain.

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Speaker 2: So what tends to help is like, Okay, Sunday, let's

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Speaker 2: look ahead, let's look back, Let's.

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Speaker 1: See what I said I was going to do. What

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Speaker 1: rolls forward? Let's see what is the most important, And then.

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Speaker 2: Ideally every day I'm making some time at the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the day to do that on a daily basis.

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Speaker 2: Quite honestly, that part doesn't happen. But if I can

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Speaker 2: do the weekly preview.

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Speaker 1: And even a couple days of that week, look more cautiously, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what are the most important things that I must get

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Speaker 1: done today versus stuff?

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Speaker 2: I just feel good if I did. And so I've

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Speaker 2: gotten a little bit. I've gotten marginally better at shifting

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Speaker 2: my personality and behavior around this stuff because when I

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Speaker 2: was younger, it had energy and youth on my side.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't sleep, and that's how I got it done.

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Speaker 2: I just burned the candle at both in and I

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Speaker 2: had an extra lighter and I've burned it from the

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Speaker 2: middle as well, and I've learned that that is unsustainable.

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Speaker 1: I've crossed the threshold of forty.

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Speaker 2: And though I look externally younger, my cells and my skeleton,

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Speaker 2: my molecules know my true age and they are far

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Speaker 2: less forgiving.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting that you started with so much structure, and

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Speaker 3: it sounds like Sunday is then a key day for

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Speaker 3: you in terms of doing the reflection and then the

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Speaker 3: forward planning. Is that a summary of what does Sunday

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Speaker 3: look like? Is that sort of the I guess the

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Speaker 3: critical day in terms of looking back and looking forward?

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Speaker 3: For you now, in terms of your routine.

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Speaker 2: Every day is critical. You're asking me to choose among

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Speaker 2: my children. I love them all in all seven days

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Speaker 2: are my favorites. But something around Sunday is it is

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Speaker 2: important to have a moment of assessment. Otherwise just running

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Speaker 2: and I can forget where to or where for and

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Speaker 2: so having sometimes it's Sunday. Sometimes it's Monday morning. Occasionally

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Speaker 2: it's slipped to Monday afternoon or something. It almost you know,

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Speaker 2: earlier in the week is the best. And I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's my life doesn't work or can always be

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Speaker 2: a sad time.

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Speaker 1: That's just not possible.

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Speaker 2: I might be able a flight, I might have a

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Speaker 2: conference or a speaking gig or stand up show.

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Speaker 1: All the things you listed might be happening.

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Speaker 2: I might be having to read indictments that have been

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Speaker 2: handed down by the Special Council in the United States

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Speaker 2: Government about further shenanigans of the administration, like these are

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Speaker 2: important things that I have to get done so within

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Speaker 2: the flexibility of my unscheduled or inconsistent life. I don't

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Speaker 2: have a rhythm of appointments. I don't have a job

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Speaker 2: I have to report to every day. You know, something

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Speaker 2: like Sunday are as close to sunder as possibles.

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Speaker 1: Very helpful for pretty assesssain Cool.

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Speaker 4: I wanted.

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Speaker 3: Explore something that I saw you do earlier this year,

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Speaker 3: which was over at TED in Vancouver, and I know

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Speaker 3: you've done this a few times now. You did the

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Speaker 3: closing keynote for TED, and that pretty much blew my mind.

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Speaker 4: So to sort of set the scene for anyone.

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Speaker 3: Mission accomplished, to set the scene for those that were

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Speaker 3: not there, is you pretty much sat through five days

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Speaker 3: where it feels like you've got this fire hose going

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Speaker 3: full pelt against your face with ideas, and you sat

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Speaker 3: there or maybe you stood there, and you summarized the

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Speaker 3: whole thing, and then you prepared and delivered and memorized

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Speaker 3: this hilarious twenty minute or thereabouts keynote that summed it

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Speaker 3: all up, and it was just amazing. And I know

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Speaker 3: what to unpack, like what when into that, because seriously,

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Speaker 3: it was one of the most amazing things I've ever witnessed.

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Speaker 3: So I guess to start with, how'd you get the gig?

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Speaker 3: Because I know that I think you first did this

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Speaker 3: maybe back in twenty fifteen or something, this closing case exactly.

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Speaker 1: So thank you.

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Speaker 2: First of all, you explained it well, that is what happened,

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Speaker 2: and I'm glad your mind was blown. It is by

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Speaker 2: far the most difficult creative and performance role I've ever

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Speaker 2: taken on.

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Speaker 1: And I've done a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: In my life and various jobs and whatnot. That's just

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Speaker 2: so it's a high wire act. So I appreciate your appreciation.

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Speaker 2: How I got it is I lobbied to do that.

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Speaker 1: I have done that for many.

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Speaker 2: Other conferences in the past five to seven years, and

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Speaker 2: I kind of discovered it by accident and I was

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Speaker 2: hosting I think it might then. The first time was

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Speaker 2: like a conference that Fast Company magazine was putting on

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Speaker 2: and I was the EMC for it, and as a

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Speaker 2: way of saying goodbye to people, I reflected on everything

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Speaker 2: we had learned that day, and they were like, WHOA,

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Speaker 2: that's that was a nice way to button it all

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Speaker 2: up together, way to bring it home.

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Speaker 1: And so I did it for like another really tiny

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Speaker 1: conference in DC, maybe thirty forty people in a single room,

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Speaker 1: single track conference, and went up with my iPad. I've

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Speaker 1: done it at the.

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Speaker 2: New York Times Center for a conference for behands ninety

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Speaker 2: nine percent conference, And so it became clear to me like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is like a I think it's like my magic act.

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Speaker 1: I think I can this is a unique offering.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have a shelf life, So you're putting in

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Speaker 2: a lot of work for something that only makes sense

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Speaker 2: to the people who were there. But for those who

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Speaker 2: were there, it feels like magic because my job is

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Speaker 2: to try to reflect the totality of the experience, some

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Speaker 2: of the content, but also the mood, the food, the weather, mistakes,

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Speaker 2: you know, errors and things like that got controversies, and

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Speaker 2: to do it with humor and not entirely mean, but

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Speaker 2: also not let them off the hook. So it's like

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Speaker 2: a roast, but yeah, I'm not trying to make you cry.

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Speaker 2: So with Ted, I had attended the TED Conference as

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Speaker 2: at an invitation of the Ted Fellows Program during its

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Speaker 2: last year in Long Beach, which I think was twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, and I saw Julia Sweeney do

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Speaker 2: this at that conference, and I was like, Oh, she

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Speaker 2: does the thing kind of like I do. She does

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Speaker 2: it totally differently, but it's the same basic function. And

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Speaker 2: so I was like, I emailed.

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Speaker 1: Ted, Hey, Ted, I do this. You should have me

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Speaker 1: do it. And they even know who I was, and

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Speaker 1: they're like.

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Speaker 2: That's cute kid, sit whatever. So the next year I

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Speaker 2: was not invited to do it, and I felt like.

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Speaker 1: I should have been. I'm like, but I emailed.

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Speaker 2: It and I claimed competency.

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Speaker 1: Why has that not been enough?

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Speaker 2: But suit their credit and there was several other people's credit,

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Speaker 2: Like many things in my life. So there were a

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Speaker 2: few people who advocated for me to do it because

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Speaker 2: they had seen me in other context and they were

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Speaker 2: longer term serving testers, so they had some weight. And

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Speaker 2: so what TED did is they gave me an audition,

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Speaker 2: and there's a Ted does a mini version of the

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Speaker 2: conference in New York City where I live, at a

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Speaker 2: small venue called Joe's Pub. It's kind of like their

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Speaker 2: way of trying out speakers, and it was called TED

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Speaker 2: at NYC. So there were maybe ten speakers in a

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Speaker 2: single night, and they invited me to do the wrap

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Speaker 2: up for those. So I did, and I melted their

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Speaker 2: faces or blew their minds or insert superlative.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that earned me the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: do it on a big stage.

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Speaker 2: That I must have done that in twenty fourteen and

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Speaker 2: then like, hey, okay, do you want to do this

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Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen the following year.

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Speaker 1: So that's how I got the gig I had.

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Speaker 2: It is a thing I do for many others, but

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Speaker 2: it is a thing that is most difficult to do

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Speaker 2: for ten.

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Speaker 3: It's a week the two thousand and eight knute. When

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Speaker 3: does preparation stop for something like that?

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Speaker 1: So that's that's a that's a good question. The very

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Speaker 1: first time that I did it, they offered me. And

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Speaker 1: I should also say I don't do this entirely alone.

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Speaker 1: This is actually a two person job, maybe really a

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Speaker 1: three person job. So I do this with one of

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Speaker 1: my co writers producers.

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Speaker 2: He was one of the co founders of Cultivated Wit

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Speaker 2: back when that was like an active business man named

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Speaker 2: Brian Janosh, and we've worked together for years. We've met

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Speaker 2: at the Onion where we both worked at the same time,

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Speaker 2: and we've done a lot of projects, hackathons and web

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Speaker 2: series and TV shows, so he knows how to write

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Speaker 2: with and for me, and taking on something as big

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Speaker 2: as TED.

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Speaker 1: Is very hard to do alone. The one night I.

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Speaker 2: Can do by myself the five day one hundred talk,

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Speaker 2: that is insane to try to pull off alone. And

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Speaker 2: then we also have remotely a graphics resource. That's my

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Speaker 2: way of referring to.

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Speaker 1: A human being who's good with photoshop.

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Speaker 2: And because we're attempting not just to create an oral

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Speaker 2: product but a visual product. Right, a TED talk has slides,

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Speaker 2: and so a parody of a TED talk needs slides too,

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Speaker 2: and it makes it more impressive because people like wait

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Speaker 2: when did you make slide? How did you have time

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Speaker 2: to have slide? So you're going so that means and

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Speaker 2: this year we had a man named JJ who we

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Speaker 2: worked with again previously from the Onion. He's really really

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Speaker 2: nice with photoshop and so we use Slack and emails.

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Speaker 1: Communicate with him. So that's we need to get that

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Speaker 1: off the table.

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Speaker 2: I carry the bulk of the load and entirety of

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Speaker 2: on that stage, but the actually all the jokes, like

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Speaker 2: I can't write all those jokes by myself, and that's

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Speaker 2: certainly that good with photoshop on my own.

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Speaker 1: So help was required. Now you ask the question, I

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Speaker 1: got so sidetracked by making sure these other people got credit.

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Speaker 1: I forgot the core.

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Speaker 3: When when does preparation start? Like, does it start weeks

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Speaker 3: or months out you're looking at the program and doing

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Speaker 3: research into the speakers, or does it start on the

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Speaker 3: day you arrive?

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Speaker 2: Really starts when I arrive, and it starts maybe Honestly,

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Speaker 2: there's like an infrastructure kind of build out, if she will, uh,

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Speaker 2: maybe a week before setting up the Slack channel, setting

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Speaker 2: up the Slack channel, setting up the Google docs. This

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Speaker 2: is all powered by Google and Slack, mostly Google, and

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Speaker 2: just getting so basically laying out the docks, pre laying

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Speaker 2: out an outline, understanding where we're going to store files,

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Speaker 2: and attending the conference consciously. So the prep is like

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Speaker 2: to be the ultimate ted attendee. So it means go

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Speaker 2: through the registration with an extra eye that I'm going

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Speaker 2: because these are the things I'm interested in, and I'm

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Speaker 2: also going because I'm probably gonna have something to say

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Speaker 2: about this or I want to be in a position

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Speaker 2: to be able to reflect on that. So ten is

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Speaker 2: not just about the talks. It's about the food, it's

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Speaker 2: about the meetups at night, it's about the off campus excursions.

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Speaker 2: You know, people are going like jet skiing and hiking

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Speaker 2: through the forest, and I need to have enough of

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Speaker 2: those experiences to reflect that back at the audience too.

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Speaker 2: And it's ninety eighty five percent about what happens on

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Speaker 2: the stage, But that other fifteen percent matters because that's

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Speaker 2: for the people who are there their ten experiences and

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Speaker 2: just lectures. So the preparation isn't so much about writing

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Speaker 2: a bunch of material or studying the talks.

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Speaker 1: I don't look at the talks beforehand. I'm not in

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Speaker 1: on the rehearsals.

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Speaker 2: I see what everyone who shows up in terms of name, topic,

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Speaker 2: and a little bit of a bio.

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Speaker 1: But I haven't looked.

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Speaker 2: At their slides or rehearsals or their transcripts of any

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Speaker 2: of that ahead of time. That would kind of spoil

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Speaker 2: it because I need to experience what an attendee experiences.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the.

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Speaker 2: Power of what we're doing with that closer is to

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Speaker 2: emerge as one of the attendees and say like, I

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Speaker 2: was there with you when she had this tiny fish

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Speaker 2: in a jar. I was there with you when Stephen

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Speaker 2: Pinker reminded us that actually your problems aren't problems at all.

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Speaker 1: We're doing great. I was there with you when we

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Speaker 1: all got rained on.

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Speaker 2: And so if it's too prebate, I might write about

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Speaker 2: my interpretation of a talk from a video or from

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Speaker 2: a word document, but that's not how it was received.

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Speaker 2: Which also means I have to be in the room

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Speaker 2: with people, or at least in the hallway, like I

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Speaker 2: have to be among the aten ds because I'm basically

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Speaker 2: trying to it's almost like an onmbudsman, and so the

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Speaker 2: level of representation in a role like that. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of logistics on just picking things to

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Speaker 2: do there's a little bit of technical infrastructure set up,

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Speaker 2: and then I'm doing screen captures and taking pictures every

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Speaker 2: step of the way. When I install the app, I'm

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Speaker 2: looking at what's new on the app this year screenshot screenshot.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'll make a comment about the app, and then

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Speaker 2: it's but it really, really, really happens once I get

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Speaker 2: to Vancouver and I set up a physical routine as well.

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Speaker 1: This is also really important. So I'm working out literally.

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Speaker 2: I got a deep tissue massage the day I arrived

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Speaker 2: to just make sure I was loose as possible. I'm

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Speaker 2: eating right, I'm not drinking. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 2: people go to TED. There's a lot of alcohol flowing.

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Speaker 2: I cannot indulge heavily. I can't stay out late partying,

405
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Speaker 2: losing my voice. When you're the last speaker, you kind

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Speaker 2: of have to forego some of the fun to be

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Speaker 2: able to be a good speaker.

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Speaker 3: So when are you finding time to actually write the material?

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Speaker 3: Because TED is so consuming, and I mean the activities

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Speaker 3: and talks they're starting at eight in the morning and

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Speaker 3: going till the night time. So like when does the

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Speaker 3: material writing or the joke writing.

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Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, so this is this is so much fun.

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Speaker 2: I'm this is the first I've been able to really

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Speaker 2: talk about this, so just thank you because it's amazing

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Speaker 2: and impossible and weird.

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Speaker 1: Brian and I.

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Speaker 2: Set up a shared Google doc and I pulled it

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Speaker 2: up in preparation for our discussion here, so I can

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Speaker 2: tell you that across that week of TED talks, which

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Speaker 2: there are roughly ninety of them, ninety zero talks, which

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Speaker 2: we captured all of them, we have a running set

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Speaker 2: of documents. We had to split it into two. The

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Speaker 2: combined page count is fifty five zero, so we actually

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00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 2: have fifty page of notes. And this is just the

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Speaker 2: raw stuff. So we each have our laptops with us.

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Speaker 1: In the room.

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Speaker 2: We sit in the back of the room so the

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Speaker 2: glow of our screens doesn't offend or obstruct, and it's

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Speaker 2: a name, the subject of their talk, and then bullets

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Speaker 2: with our comments on what they're talking about, sometimes with questions.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's so obvious and we both end up typing

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Speaker 2: the same thing, or we comment on each other, so

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Speaker 2: I'll type something and he'll use the comment feature and

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Speaker 2: write a plus one.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, there's one guy Asaathrama.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at the notes for his now this is

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Speaker 2: session six all about the environment, and he was describing

439
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: a cooling shade material basically a way to shield us

440
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: on the ground from the power of the sun. And

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Speaker 2: I wrote, all a giant shade like that episode from

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Speaker 2: The Simpsons where mister Burns like blocks the sun the

443
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 2: entire town of Springfield. And so we highlight. So we're

444
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: typing in real time during the session. That's the first

445
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: round of notes after the session. In between, we're looking

446
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 2: back at every bullet and highlighting.

447
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: And commenting or bolding.

448
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 2: And saying, Okay, we may have had like ten notes

449
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: on this one talk.

450
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: Here are the two that stand out.

451
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: We're also capturing quotes, and so you know, the first

452
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: few days, it's all just gather, gather, gather. By the

453
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: third day, by Wednesday night, we maybe it was Thursday night,

454
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 2: have to double check the timestamp on the photo.

455
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: But then we start to lay out what are the.

456
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: Emerging themes, what is the likely structure, Like enough has

457
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 2: happened by session sixth that okay, we feel like we

458
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: know what this head is heading toward, and who the

459
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: audience is and what some of the highlights are. So

460
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: then we start creating content buckets and I don't know

461
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: if you've ever seen a TV production off it's index

462
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 2: cards on a big corkboard Act one, at two, act.

463
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: Three with kind of scenes underneath and different cards. So

464
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: we go to my hotel room.

465
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 2: We do a cheap version of that with pieces of paper,

466
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: just lay them out on a table or the bed

467
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: or the floor in this case, and we start dropping

468
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: in the observations that we've made highlighting. And then as

469
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: we get toward the end of the week, you know,

470
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 2: we're still gathering as much raw material, but the threshold

471
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: for what gets included gets higher because we know we're

472
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: running out of space. Right, we don't have two hours

473
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: to review ted, we have twenty minutes, and we start

474
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 2: sending off the graphics requests, right we want we don't

475
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: want to overproduce graphics, so we have to wait till

476
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 2: the end, and we really use our graphics resource on

477
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 2: like that final day, the final two days, and get

478
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 2: with enough time for revision. So that's the you know,

479
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: how do we write the It's round one real time

480
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: as we're taking notes, Round two commenting on the notes

481
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 2: usually aim between session to every day, and then the

482
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: final round is the last night, you know, Ted ended

483
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: on a Saturday midday this year, so Friday night is

484
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: the last night. There's a huge party that we miss

485
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 2: and we hear everyone enjoying themselves. Stickers above the fun

486
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 2: because the why is strong, and we're finalizing the outline

487
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 2: that we've been building and finalizing the slides. You know,

488
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 2: we convert from outline form to slide form, and we're

489
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: probably up until I was probably up till three point

490
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 2: thirty four in the morning.

491
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: Brian is probably up till six. I think you sleep a.

492
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: Little bit that I'm up by seven point thirty and

493
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: it will workout. The adrenaline a hook very light. And

494
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: we still have one more session. My talk is in

495
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: the last session, so we still have to observe that

496
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: one because the best magic is to reference, like the

497
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: talk right before you Yeah, yeah, people, how did you what?

498
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 2: And so that's really that has to just be in

499
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: my head. You know, that can't be on a slide

500
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: at that last moment. But leaving a place for it

501
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: or finding a way to weave it in is you know, strong,

502
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: highly desirable, highly desirable.

503
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 4: And can I ask, how how do you write a joke?

504
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 3: And maybe this is a more general question but certainly,

505
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 3: I mean, you're having to write a lot of jokes

506
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: at a really fast pace, like he you able to

507
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 3: unpack how do you write a joke?

508
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: So that is an incredible question, almost like that's an

509
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: entire podcast, because it depends on what kind of joke

510
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: and what context, what's setting, what audience.

511
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 1: So these jokes are.

512
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: They're they're heavily a satire format, and which is to say,

513
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: the form of the joke is built on the form

514
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: of largely a Ted talk, more generally the Ted experience,

515
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 2: but specifically the Ted Talk. So the context is I'm

516
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 2: on stage in front of a thousand or so people

517
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: in a red circle with a giant screen behind me

518
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: and a clicker, and I am imparting knowledge, right, I

519
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: am sharing information, I am giving you.

520
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: I am sharing ideas worth spreading. Right.

521
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: That's Ted's little model ideas worth spreading. So it has

522
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: to feel important. I have to come across in this

523
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: satire as authoritative, as an expert, because everybody who I

524
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: am talking about is an expert in astrophysics or you know,

525
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: HIV or childcare or something. So to write that joke

526
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: is in part to remember that I'm delivering expertise that

527
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,479
Speaker 2: I am imparting wisdom and sharing ideas Worth's and that

528
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 2: affects the tone in terms of the actual content of

529
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: the joke. I'm looking back at the outline now just

530
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: to see what I opened with, and it was a

531
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: racial commentary. I'd been mistaken a lot that week for

532
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: the director of Black Panther, which I am not.

533
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: I love Black Panther. I did not.

534
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: Create Black Panther, and it happened at least three significant times,

535
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: which means it happened in people's heads way more often,

536
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: and they just didn't share that with me. So I

537
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: wanted to acknowledge that there's not a ton of black

538
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: speakers at TED or speakers of color in general, and

539
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, let's own this. That's my power. I

540
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: have this stage. I want to say that. But I

541
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: so what I said is, you know, for someone to

542
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: acknowledge everyone who thanks me this week for making Black Panther,

543
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: and that's like create tension, release tension, or everyone.

544
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: Who congratulated me on my dance performances. There were a

545
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: bunch of dancers from this African American dance company.

546
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: I was not one of those dances, but people thought

547
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: I was, and to be fair, there are many more

548
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 2: people of color at ted this year is probably confusing

549
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: for the veterans where it's not a race.

550
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: Problem, it's a math problem.

551
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: And you'll get better with you and so I guess

552
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: you know, you can hear the structure of the joke right,

553
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: the delivery was a lot of it. The deliverer right,

554
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: That will come out very differently from a white speaker.

555
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: They couldn't do that joke right.

556
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: It's the unique thing that I can say because of

557
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: my unique experience and the authority I had.

558
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: So I'm establishing authority.

559
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: I'm also giving them shit right, but I'm giving them

560
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: a little bit of a way out and I'm setting

561
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: the stage for That's what I'm going to do for

562
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: the next twenty minutes. I'm going to call you out,

563
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: but I'm going to hug you when I do it right.

564
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: And I'm just I'm gonna let you know what I saw,

565
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: celebrate you. I'm gonna, you know, let you laugh about it,

566
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to let it go unsaid. So

567
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: those are That's like an example of the opening joke.

568
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: Another one that occurs to me. Sometimes a speaker will

569
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: give you the joke and the quotes that come out

570
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: of TED are just magical, and so these are this

571
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: is just.

572
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: About your listening ability. Did you hear what they just said?

573
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: And sharing reminding everyone we all heard that is amazing.

574
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: There was this kid, he said, after my sophomore year of.

575
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: High school, I spent my summer figuring out how everything

576
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: in this field works. He was talking about artificial intelligence.

577
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: He was seventeen years old. Like, are you kidding me?

578
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,959
Speaker 2: That's I just have to remind people that a child

579
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: said he figured out how everything in AI worked the

580
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: summer after he graduated high school. Not technically a joke,

581
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: but a strong proof of listening and a memorable moment

582
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 2: that is humorous, right, and then some are visual. And

583
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: so the last example I'll give is there was a

584
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: a rock climber and he climbed without rope. I think

585
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: it's called maybe freestyle or free hand. I don't fully remember.

586
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: But he talked about this his preparation and how he

587
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: like runs the route in his head twenty thirty times.

588
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: Six months in advance. And so we just applied his

589
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: logic to his own TED talk and we photoshopped him

590
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: studying the TED stage, checking the cables, making sure he

591
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: understood the lighting angle, the placement of his sentences with

592
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: the same sort of anal retentiveness, and so people remember

593
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: his personality and remember that approach, and then instead of it.

594
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: Being about his rock climb, we wade about his TED talk.

595
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: So you sort of you can take a thing and

596
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: then juxtapose it and sort of shift it and apply

597
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: that same logic to a parallel space, and that is

598
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: a form of a joke or yes, yeah, so that's

599
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: a really interesting question.

600
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's great to he unpacked that.

601
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: I found that really fascinating, and I wish we'd you'd

602
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: have like another few hours to explore all the types

603
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: of jokes to write. Something else I wanted to ask,

604
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: is like, that's that's a lot of content to remember

605
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: in a very short space of time, Like I've heard

606
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: that the average TED talker has about three to six

607
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 3: months to prepare and memorize and shape.

608
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 4: The speech, Like how how are you remembering everything to say?

609
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, genetics, maybe I don't. So part of the benefit

610
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: is that I've been thinking about it.

611
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: I was just about to say something that kind of

612
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: undermined the point, and I've.

613
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: Been thinking about these all week, you know, in many

614
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: cases or three straight days. But then you remind me

615
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: that these people have been preparing their whole you know,

616
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: lives in some cases to give these talks. And they're

617
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 2: definitely a few other speakers who are a bit annoyed

618
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: at me because they're like, wait, you just talk together

619
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: this week. I've been practicing for years for this opportunity.

620
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: So I think the way it works is a I

621
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 2: am very practiced at presenting in general, right, so I

622
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: can save.

623
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: Energy on nervousness on how what I'm going to do

624
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: with my body where I'm gonna put my hands, Like my.

625
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: Cells are freed, my neurons are freed to not worry

626
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: about any of those things.

627
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: Second, it's in my short.

628
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: Term memory, and I have only been in the world

629
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: of Ted all week, and that's important because it's not

630
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: like I'm watching a bunch of news. My girlfriend's back

631
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: at home, like we're hardly in communication. It's immersive, and

632
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: when you're totally immersed in something, at least I find

633
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: I can recall better by cramming for a test if

634
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: you just credit like it'll be in what I think

635
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 2: of as ram right, as opposed to like long term

636
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: storage on the heart. I forget a lot of this

637
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: stuff as soon as the talk is over because I

638
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: don't need it anymore. And then the last is I

639
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: do have, I think, an above average memory essentially when

640
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: it comes to just be able to being able to

641
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: recall in the short term.

642
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm good with names.

643
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: If I meet ten people in a space, I'll remember

644
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 2: their names if I intend to. When I do television,

645
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: like talk to camera stuff, I'll write a closing monologue

646
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 2: that's like thirty seconds or a minute and deliver it

647
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 2: to camera.

648
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: And I have to do a ton of takes.

649
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 2: So there probably is some gifts that I was born

650
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: with that I can't take credit for.

651
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: That's why I say genetics that helps with something like this.

652
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: And then a little bit of luck, you know.

653
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: And then then the last is a cheat, which is

654
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: I don't have a teleprompter, but I do have the slides.

655
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 2: I'm not memorizing the talk word for word. I'm remembering

656
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 2: the ideas and the jokes. I'm remembering the transitions.

657
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: Right.

658
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: It's if there are any computer science people listening to this,

659
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 2: it's almost like a compression algorithm, and I don't need

660
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: all the filler, right, I just need some of the

661
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: key signature pieces to know. Oh, okay, So if I

662
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: remember sequence, I'm good. Right, If I remember roughly what

663
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: comes next, I'm good. And because as a speaker, you

664
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: can see what the audience sees, that's a great reminder.

665
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: So if I see the giant Subway sandwich, the giant

666
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: Hogy sandwich on the.

667
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: Screen, I just have to remember what to say about it.

668
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: And it's not that complicated. It's not advanced physics. I'm

669
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: trying to deliver.

670
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 2: In this case, I'm delivering something that everyone in the

671
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: room is familiar with, and it's my comment about it.

672
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: So I'm riding on existing content, and I'm writing on

673
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: my ability to smoothly, lightly improvise around the basic ideas

674
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 2: and bullets of the slide that's kind of before you.

675
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: So all that adds up to make it look.

676
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 2: Like, oh, this dude just wrote a talk this week

677
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: and memorized twenty minutes. I didn't memorize twenty minutes, but

678
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: I didn't know the order, and the slides helped, and

679
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 2: my brain is a little above average good at that,

680
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: and I have a lot of practice.

681
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: I have my ten thousand hours on something like this

682
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: and does.

683
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: That ten thousand hours also help you manage your nerves

684
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: in a situation like that, Like, are you getting nervous?

685
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: Given I guess the context that you're presenting, you, what

686
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: you're presenting.

687
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 1: Probably less than well, certainly less than average.

688
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be in this field, right, Like what you've

689
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: just been talking about is probably terrifying to.

690
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: Many people listening right now.

691
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,439
Speaker 2: And if you are terrified by what you're hearing, you're

692
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: absolutely normal. I'm the freak, So just don't worry about yourself.

693
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: I'm the weird of I don't get significantly.

694
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: Nervous, but I do have nerves.

695
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: This is a very big, high stakes, high sensitivity environment.

696
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 2: And once I'm in it, once I'm off and running,

697
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: it's good, right, But there is there's moments backstage that morning,

698
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: just like double checking, I'm flipping.

699
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:25,240
Speaker 1: I'm sort of half paying.

700
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: Attention to the speakers right before me, but it's not

701
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: nearly as intense as all the other sessions because I'm

702
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: really using them and I'm trying to make sure I

703
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 2: know basically what they're talking about, because if I missed

704
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: a gigantic moment that will stand out.

705
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: At this point, they were just there and you're not

706
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: going to talk about that. That's weird. But mostly I'm.

707
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 2: Just like, I'm listening with an almost exploitative like, I

708
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: just need to be able to find something that I

709
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: can use to prove that this is a real time thing.

710
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: And so I found Rehawked from the CEO of Netflix

711
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 2: said something and I was like, he just gave me

712
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: a gift, right.

713
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: He said something about being a lazy CEO and how

714
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: he doesn't.

715
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: Do any real work, and I already had a ceo joke,

716
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: but then he became.

717
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: The punch a better punchline on it.

718
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: I didn't even have to redo the slide, so I

719
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 2: just used his name as a verbal overlay on what

720
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 2: was already on the slide.

721
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: Thank you read. I have to go back and watch

722
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: his talk to see what he was really.

723
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: Talking about because the pressure and I'm nervous and I

724
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: just needed to use him in that moment. I'm sorry

725
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: that I used a person as memes. I like violated

726
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: constant categorical comperative. I'm a philosophy major. I'm I don't

727
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 2: feel good about that, but it's part of the job

728
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 2: and what helps with nerves in the moments of delivery

729
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 2: the audience. When once I that first joke lands, it's like, okay,

730
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 2: we're good, Like I'm doing what I know how to do.

731
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: And then I have fun because I realized, like I

732
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 2: am playing with these people, like this is an instrument,

733
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: and it's the words and the slides, but it's also

734
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: the reaction. And the best version is when I'm present

735
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: for the reaction and not just delivering what's in my

736
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: head at people. And so I have to be listening

737
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 2: in the moment, right I'm still doing what I did

738
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: all week from the stage, because if someone responds in

739
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,919
Speaker 2: a way like they did, you know, if you've never

740
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 2: seen been to a taed, which is billions of people

741
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: have never been to a ted Dog, and certainly the

742
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: big one. But the sponsors and the donors, like the

743
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 2: high rollers. They sit right up front and closest to

744
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 2: the to the red circle because they paid extra for it.

745
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: It's like VIP.

746
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 2: And there was a group of guys that all shared

747
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 2: the same name and I made fun of them in

748
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: one of my slides because I got a picture with

749
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: all of them. I found one of them and they

750
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: were two of them were sitting up in the rich

751
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: section and so I called them out.

752
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: Of oh, did you're sitting right? Of course, you're sitting

753
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: in the yacht section.

754
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: And even just calling it the yacht section, of being

755
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: able to listen enough to notice their response, that helped

756
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: my nerves because it reminded me, all right, I'm in

757
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 2: conversation with people, even if they're not talking back like

758
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: they're listening, they're laughing, they're clapping, they're sighing out, and

759
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 2: that helps with the non non nervousness.

760
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: Plus all the practice.

761
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 4: That's awesome.

762
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: Gosh, that's just fascinating hearing how that all comes together. Now,

763
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: I'm mindful we've only got a few minutes left. And

764
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: how I'd love to end these episodes is understanding what

765
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 3: are the things that you are consuming right now in

766
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: terms of information, because I think it's so so hard

767
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 3: these days for the average person to know, well, what's

768
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: the good stuff and what's the not so good stuff.

769
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 3: So I'd love to finish with a few quick questions. Firstly, books,

770
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: what like what a one or two great books that

771
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 3: you've read recently?

772
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: I am currently reading, but relatedly reading Terrible of the

773
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 2: Sewer by Octavia Butler, And I say belatedly because I

774
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: should have been reading this woman many many, many years ago.

775
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: She's a black woman, She's a science fiction writer.

776
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: Afro Futurism is the genre sometimes referred to as that

777
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 2: was a weird format for a sentence.

778
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 1: But I think people.

779
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: Reconstruct what I meant by that, and I absolutely love it,

780
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 2: love it, love.

781
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: It, love it. Other books.

782
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: So I have a pile of books that my friends

783
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: have written. I have very literary friends, and I feel

784
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 2: badly that I haven't gotten to fully read these books.

785
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 2: But there's Molly Krabapple has a book Something of the Gun.

786
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 2: I want to literally look it up now because I

787
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 2: want people to know about this. She is a graphic artist, illustrator, journalist, actor,

788
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: this and she has co written a book with a

789
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 2: man from Syria who was on the ground fighting and

790
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: surviving in this civil war going on. So it's called

791
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: Brothers of the Gun. I read Molly's first book. I've

792
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: started this one. It appears to be even better than

793
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 2: her first book.

794
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: So I highly recommend recommend that. Octavia Butler, I'll like

795
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: crab Apple.

796
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: Oh, I'll put links to that in the show notes.

797
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 3: How about podcasts?

798
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: What, oh boy, oh boy?

799
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 4: What do you recommend?

800
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 2: So First off, I just have to say, like I'm

801
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 2: annoyed at the large amount of content in the world

802
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: right now. There's when if a friend says, oh, you

803
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 2: got to check out this podcast. No, no, those are

804
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: my least favorite words in the English language. Right now,

805
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 2: you got to check out this pott That means hours

806
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 2: that I have to commit if you have this new

807
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 2: Netflix show and a great podcast.

808
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: So I'm going to be unemployed is what I'm hearing,

809
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: and probably homeless. So I am. I'm selfishly listening to

810
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: my own podcast as I just launched a podcast very

811
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: recently and I've honestly been playing it back. It's all

812
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: about DNA and.

813
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: It's called Spit and I sit with musicians and scientists

814
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 2: and kind of talk on the personal front about people's

815
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: ancestry and their family stories, and with the scientists about

816
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: what without all means so little self promotion.

817
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: Hope you don't mind that.

818
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 4: You love it, love others.

819
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 2: I'm literally looking through my queue right now to see

820
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 2: I always listen to The New York Times. This podcast

821
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: The Daily It's a nice dose twenty to twenty five

822
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: minutes of kind of what's going on. I listened to

823
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: The Zigzag podcast. Manooche Zamorodi used to have a podcast

824
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 2: called Note to Self. She is a technology writer and

825
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: reporter here in New York. Now she's formed her own

826
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: media company with one of her producers from the radio

827
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: station where they worked, and so it's an all women

828
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 2: run media company that's somehow built on the blockchain. So

829
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: don't fully understand that part, but they are looking at

830
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: tech and women in business.

831
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 1: Just a great show remade in America as Bossam.

832
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: Yusef Bossam was called the John Stewart of Egypt, and

833
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: he I came across from a twenty twelve when I

834
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 2: did the keynote of south By Southwest, and I mentioned

835
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: him in my keynote because he was using satire where

836
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 2: things were really at risk, which they weren't at the

837
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: time in the States. They are risk now as well,

838
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 2: but not in twenty twelve. And so he's now lives

839
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: in the US. He's been kicked out of Egypt for

840
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: his satire and he has his own podcast where he

841
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 2: interviews Americans.

842
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: Will have also felt like outsiders.

843
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: So he's like he's being remade in America, but he's

844
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: talking to other people, not just as immigrants. It's all

845
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: kinds of outsider feeling this, So those I mean, there's

846
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 2: a long list, but I think that's a representative sample

847
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: of you know, new zy political techie. And as far

848
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 2: as the series, I mean, I'm still getting over there.

849
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: I do like the mini series podcast. It's just like

850
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: six episodes, ten episodes, twelve episodes, and you can you

851
00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: can be done with it.

852
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: The New York Times will not stop. They're just going

853
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: to keep making those. But it's something like s Town

854
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: or crime Town or Dirty John.

855
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: I've been a big fan of the mini series podcast

856
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: format fantastic.

857
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 3: And apps like mobile apps or computer apps. I know

858
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: you write so much and so amazingly about technology.

859
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 4: What are your favorite go to apps? Maybe some lesser

860
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 4: known ones.

861
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I'm looking. I'm looking at my homescreen to

862
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 2: see and I'm thinking, look.

863
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: Gmails will really significant app in my life.

864
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: I use every note a lot for note taking of

865
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: all kinds, meeting logs and ideas and things like that.

866
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 2: The New York Times and Washington Post apps I pay

867
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: for those. I like real journalism, so those have a

868
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 2: prominent position in my life. The camera apps, pretty key

869
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: messaging app. And then as I look around at some

870
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: of these other ones. My gym has an app. I

871
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: use that a lot. I really love that one. Gotta

872
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: stay fit to fight fascism, got to be in shape, so.

873
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's honestly kind of important.

874
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: I use the Authenticator app two step authentication with this

875
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: code generation, so you know, you log into certain sites,

876
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: adding extra layer of security. Sometimes they will text you

877
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 2: a code to confirm that it's you that you have

878
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 2: your phone using the authenticator apps even more secure than

879
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: a code because people can intercept your SIM cards now,

880
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: so your phone number might not just be your own.

881
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: So I am increasingly conscious of security and digital privacy

882
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 2: and things like that.

883
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: So those are those are important to me. Yeah, I'm not.

884
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 2: There's a oh, the City bike app I use in

885
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: the a bike sharing service that we have in New York.

886
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: It's called different things in different cities, but I use that.

887
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: Multiple times a day to get arounround. Our subway system

888
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: is a shambles.

889
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: It's an embarrassment and it's going to ruin the city

890
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: if they don't fix it.

891
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: But the city bikes are working pretty well.

892
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 4: Well, so that's great.

893
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 3: That's that's very interesting, and I love the article that

894
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 3: I think it's it's possibly a two part article for

895
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 3: Medium around what Google and Facebook know about you, and

896
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 3: just the authenticator app reminded me of that. I'll put

897
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 3: a link to that in the show notes because I

898
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 3: thought that was just that was just brilliant.

899
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you very much. A lot of work

900
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: to write that and the Medium app. I go and

901
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 1: promote my partners a medium.

902
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: I actually like what they're doing and I pay for

903
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 2: it again like the thing that we didn't do right

904
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 2: the internet one point. Oh, it's like starting to happen

905
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 2: where you charge for quality service as opposed to sell

906
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: yourself to be sold for average service to someone else.

907
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: So thanks for reminding me of that.

908
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: And finally, how how can people find you other than

909
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 3: via the spit podcast?

910
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: Oh, very good question. So because I have a special method.

911
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 2: So my website is baratun day dot com. I think

912
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 2: it always shall be thus and one you can find

913
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 2: me there. I'm active on all the social platforms as

914
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 2: baratun Day, but I also have been experimenting a matha

915
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: with a text messaging method of interacting with people.

916
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: And so I'll share my phone number.

917
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: I'm about to share my phone number, dear listener, country

918
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: code plus one two oh two, nine oh two seven

919
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 2: nine four nine, and if you text me, use.

920
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: The hashtag how I work. Hashtag how I work. So

921
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: let's I'll do a custom hashtag me and to set

922
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 1: this up as soon as we're done how I work

923
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: and what I do.

924
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: So you sign up for this and you share a

925
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 2: little bit of information with me. It's just an email

926
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: and like ideally geography and so occasionally I'll send a

927
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 2: blast message announcing like hey, I have a new.

928
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: Podcast or a big article.

929
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 2: If it's globally accessible, I will send it globally, but otherwise,

930
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: if I'm touring, I will only let people in that

931
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: area know I'm got a gig here at the Sydney

932
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 2: Opera House or at this comedy club or at this conference.

933
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 2: And I also answer and ask questions. So it's highly interactive,

934
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 2: it's very it's not public. You know, no one else

935
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: can see what you say to me or vice versa

936
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 2: unless you're taking screenshots and sharing them. But so it

937
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 2: doesn't have the performance angle of Twitter, and it also

938
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 2: isn't subject to the algorithms and the sales.

939
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: To Russia and like all the weird stuff that's happening

940
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: with Facebook.

941
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 2: Like unless I sell the stuff to Russia, and I

942
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 2: have no interest in that, like it's not a good

943
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: business move for me or a civic move. So again

944
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 2: plus one two oh two nine o two seven nine

945
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 2: four nine. I feel like a telemarketer, but that is

946
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 2: actually the most interesting way for people to.

947
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,439
Speaker 1: To be in touch with me. And you can stop

948
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: at any time if the messages get annoyed.

949
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 2: But if you have any further questions on this topic,

950
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: text them and I'll be happy to answer. Maybe I'll

951
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 2: roll up another an addendum where I just like do

952
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 2: a Q and A and post it to the listeners

953
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: wherever you are, especially if you're down in Australia.

954
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 4: That's so cool. I love it.

955
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 3: I'm going to send you a text message after this

956
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 3: interview will yes, I will well, thank you so much

957
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 3: for your time.

958
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 4: I've loved talking to you and hearing.

959
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: About just one of the most amazing experiences that I've seen,

960
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 3: So thank you.

961
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: Can I can I ask you, let me offer you

962
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: and you can edit this out if it makes no sense,

963
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: if if there was one other question you had, shoot,

964
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: I don't know when we're next going to talk, but

965
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 2: I know we're kind of limiting on time.

966
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: I'm going to give you a choice of three questions

967
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: and you can answer whichever one you like. So, firstly

968
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 3: that I can understand, like that article that you wrote

969
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 3: on Medium about privacy, I was like, clearly, so much

970
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 3: work and research and so many links went into that article.

971
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask, how do you write an article

972
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 3: like that? Where do you even start? My second question,

973
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 3: I know you spent I think it was about nine

974
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 3: months on the Daily Show starting the Digital Expansion team,

975
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 3: and I read a post that you wrote about that

976
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 3: that said that this has probably been the hardest job

977
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 3: I've ever had.

978
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 4: I wanted to ask why.

979
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,919
Speaker 3: And my final one, I read about your twenty five

980
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 3: day digital detox that you did several years ago, and

981
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 3: I wanted to know if any of the learnings or

982
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 3: habits or insights that you did several years ago have

983
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 3: stuck to this day. So you can pick one of

984
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 3: those questions.

985
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's I will just I'll try to keep

986
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: my answer short and try to touch on each of them.

987
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:49,280
Speaker 1: The last one the least. But the first about you know.

988
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 2: Writing that digital detox article and kind of what goes

989
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: into it and how I wrote it. There's a technical answer,

990
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 2: which is I used some software, an app called Scribbler,

991
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: because it helps organize big pieces of writing. Authors use

992
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: it to write books, and I needed something more than

993
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: Google Docs or Microsoft Word to structure the different angles

994
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 2: on this big topic. I was looking at my browser,

995
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 2: I was looking at the ISPs, I was looking at

996
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 2: tracking through websites, and looking at the terms of service

997
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 2: of Google and Facebook.

998
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: And you know what helped me structure that article is

999
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: that I did.

1000
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 2: Go through a detox process called the Data Detox that

1001
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 2: Mozilla helped sponsor and a group called Tactical Tech put together.

1002
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: So they gave me the initial guide and I wrote it.

1003
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: I talked to my editor before I started writing it.

1004
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 2: She approved an outline, so I had help. Again, it's

1005
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 2: usually never just me, even though I'm the one who

1006
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 2: gets the byline. There's there's other labor involved in this,

1007
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 2: so it's always worth giving that credit. And I had

1008
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 2: records to draw on from my own detox. So all

1009
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 2: those screenshots that included in a big medium piece that

1010
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: I was chronicling, it was like a j journal. So

1011
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: I went into it my own detox, considering I might

1012
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 2: write about this someday.

1013
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 1: So I took extensive notes.

1014
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: Not only of what I did, but how I felt

1015
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 2: about what I did, jokes about what I was doing,

1016
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 2: rants and sort of indignant moments on my own part.

1017
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: So that's on that one. The Daily Show.

1018
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 2: I did work there nine and a half months with

1019
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: Trevor to help him relaunch that and run the digital

1020
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: The reason that job was so hard is because it

1021
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 2: had not existed before I was brought in to do

1022
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 2: a new thing that no one there really knew what

1023
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 2: it was. And so it's hard to do a job

1024
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 2: that is not defined. And I would advise anyone if

1025
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: you're taking a job, kind of know what that job is.

1026
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: It sounds really basic.

1027
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 2: Know what success looks like, and have an agreement with

1028
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: your employers about what success is. And so these are

1029
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: things we figured out along the way, and that's not ideal.

1030
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,280
Speaker 2: It was also hard just because of hours and time

1031
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 2: and pressure. This is a vaunted national almost that's a

1032
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 2: international institution in many ways, and so to rewire it

1033
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: and change it while it's still operating is an incredibly

1034
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: delicate bit of choreography. And because you can't stop making

1035
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 2: the Daily Show and retool it and then launch with all.

1036
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: This new stuff, there's too much.

1037
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: Money at stake, quite frankly, so it made it hard

1038
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 2: because you're trying to innovate in this iterative fashion in public,

1039
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 2: with like a live product, and that's.

1040
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: When these governments have to do that all the time, right.

1041
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 2: You can't take down the pension payment service or you

1042
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 2: upgrade the technology behind it.

1043
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: It has People need their checks, people need their services.

1044
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying the Daily Show is as urgent

1045
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,359
Speaker 2: as the government in terms of the services provided. In

1046
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 2: some cases, it's maybe more so.

1047
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: So that that's why that was that was really hard.

1048
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 2: In terms of my own personal social media detox et cetera,

1049
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 2: I did write that cover story for Fast Company many

1050
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: years ago, now twenty five days without social media, and

1051
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 2: what has stuck is my frustration with the companies that

1052
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: create the products you know, we are. It showed up

1053
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 2: in the Data detos piece as well. I think there's

1054
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: this big power imbalance where it's assumed that we have

1055
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: individual power to make choices that affect how we live

1056
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 2: in this world, and that is just not entirely the case. Certainly,

1057
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 2: my individual choices have an effect. I can choose to

1058
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 2: tweet or not to tweet, but that isn't the question.

1059
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 2: The question is what happens to that tweet? After how

1060
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 2: am I exposed? What is the psychology and so the

1061
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 2: manipulative neuroscience that's applied to get me to want to

1062
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 2: return to these addictive platforms. You know, the cigarette companies

1063
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 2: the world over had to admit that they were hacking

1064
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: into our minds and selling an addictive product, but not

1065
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 2: calling it that.

1066
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:12,479
Speaker 1: We're at that.

1067
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 2: Phase now with some of our technology, and so it's

1068
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 2: not fair to just blame the victim here and say, well,

1069
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: you should make better choices. Well, I can't when billions

1070
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: of dollars of mathematics, computing power, and neuroscience are bending

1071
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 2: my will against that which is good for me. So

1072
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 2: it's less to me. To me, there's like another layer

1073
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: to all this, and it's a bigger question about how

1074
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 2: do we govern ourselves individually but also collectively without seeding

1075
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: that individual choice. Either it's not fully collective, but it

1076
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 2: certainly isn't fully individual. And I don't think we found

1077
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 2: the healthy balance. So I see that consistently, whether it's

1078
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 2: addiction in social media, whether it's what happens with our data.

1079
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 2: Mostly it's a question of governance and so I could

1080
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 2: be talking about Twitter, I.

1081
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: Could be talking about Venezuela.

1082
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: There is a parallel there how we live and operate

1083
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 2: together versus individually.

1084
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: So thank you.

1085
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: I hope that that was best, but I wanted to

1086
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 2: do that.

1087
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 4: I love it.

1088
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: I've had a great time. I've had a great time talking.

1089
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 4: Thanks, thank you so much. Thank you. Hey there, that's

1090
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 4: it for today's episode.

1091
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 3: If you liked it, there are plenty of others that

1092
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 3: you might also enjoy, such as my chat with Matt Mullenwig,

1093
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 3: co founder of WordPress, where we talk about how he

1094
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 3: organizes his phone to create healthy habits, and my conversation

1095
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 3: with Adam Grant, where we talk about the two things

1096
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 3: he does at the start of every week to make

1097
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Speaker 3: sure he stays on track with what really matters. Finally,

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Speaker 3: it's great getting feedback from listeners such as yourself, so

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Speaker 3: feel free to give this podcast a review in iTunes

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Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you

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Speaker 3: like this episode, make sure you hit the subscribe button

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Speaker 3: so you can be alerted when.

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Speaker 4: New episodes are released. See you next time.