1 00:00:04,071 --> 00:00:09,551 Speaker 1: Black Cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges 2 00:00:09,711 --> 00:00:12,711 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this 3 00:00:12,791 --> 00:00:15,911 Speaker 1: episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land 4 00:00:15,951 --> 00:00:19,391 Speaker 1: where you, the listener of viewer, are tuning in from. 5 00:00:19,671 --> 00:00:21,791 Speaker 1: We would like to pay our respects to our elders 6 00:00:21,831 --> 00:00:25,431 Speaker 1: past and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal 7 00:00:25,511 --> 00:00:31,511 Speaker 1: land and always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the 8 00:00:31,551 --> 00:00:39,351 Speaker 1: Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. I'd like to 9 00:00:39,391 --> 00:00:43,791 Speaker 1: begin this podcast by acknowledging the traditional owners here on 10 00:00:43,831 --> 00:00:47,311 Speaker 1: the Sunshine Coast where I am today, the gubby gubby 11 00:00:47,431 --> 00:00:51,511 Speaker 1: and cubby cubby people here at beautiful cool and Beach, 12 00:00:51,951 --> 00:00:54,351 Speaker 1: a beautiful part of the world. I'd also like to 13 00:00:54,391 --> 00:00:58,831 Speaker 1: extend my acknowledgment to traditional owners right across this country 14 00:00:58,911 --> 00:01:02,631 Speaker 1: from wherever this podcast has been listened to. It's always 15 00:01:02,631 --> 00:01:06,191 Speaker 1: a pleasure to have your company. And the person that 16 00:01:06,231 --> 00:01:09,711 Speaker 1: I'm yearning to today, deadly fellow that I had the 17 00:01:09,751 --> 00:01:13,111 Speaker 1: pleasure of meeting actually last year, someone that I had 18 00:01:13,151 --> 00:01:15,951 Speaker 1: heard of and heard my dad speak to and also 19 00:01:16,031 --> 00:01:20,431 Speaker 1: heard my dad interview on the radio. And you know, 20 00:01:20,911 --> 00:01:23,231 Speaker 1: a person that I would consider an uncle to me 21 00:01:23,711 --> 00:01:26,831 Speaker 1: in terms of the respect and the relationship that my 22 00:01:26,991 --> 00:01:28,831 Speaker 1: dad had with you. So I just want to say 23 00:01:29,551 --> 00:01:33,351 Speaker 1: uncle Bruce Pasco, thank you so much for taking time 24 00:01:33,391 --> 00:01:35,631 Speaker 1: out of your busy life to be on this podcast. 25 00:01:36,031 --> 00:01:42,471 Speaker 2: Oh well, it's a pleasure and an honor. Yes, a 26 00:01:42,511 --> 00:01:46,151 Speaker 2: good week to be talking on radio too, it sure is. Yeah. 27 00:01:46,271 --> 00:01:49,591 Speaker 2: I'm a you and Budlong Tasmonian man. I live on 28 00:01:49,831 --> 00:01:52,991 Speaker 2: you in the country, very southern end of you and country, 29 00:01:53,071 --> 00:01:56,391 Speaker 2: but I'm traveling up to Melbourne at the moment and 30 00:01:56,431 --> 00:01:59,911 Speaker 2: I've stopped on the side of the highway of the 31 00:01:59,951 --> 00:02:03,311 Speaker 2: western edge of gunn Ony Country and I'm very happy 32 00:02:03,791 --> 00:02:09,311 Speaker 2: who have been able to talk to community today various 33 00:02:09,351 --> 00:02:13,231 Speaker 2: parts of the country. And you know, it's pretty important 34 00:02:13,271 --> 00:02:19,311 Speaker 2: for us because my community is working on the farm. 35 00:02:19,591 --> 00:02:22,511 Speaker 2: I've got a little farm on the Wide Gras River 36 00:02:22,631 --> 00:02:29,911 Speaker 2: in Victoria and that's the part of our une lands 37 00:02:30,391 --> 00:02:35,391 Speaker 2: and we employee local you and people on the farm 38 00:02:36,351 --> 00:02:39,871 Speaker 2: to grow our traditional foods. And there's a huge movement 39 00:02:40,791 --> 00:02:46,031 Speaker 2: of young Australians, both non Aboriginal and Aboriginal who are 40 00:02:46,311 --> 00:02:52,271 Speaker 2: interested in this sustainable and regenerative agriculture. When Europeans ignored 41 00:02:52,791 --> 00:02:57,991 Speaker 2: our history, they also ignored our agriculture and our plants 42 00:02:58,031 --> 00:03:02,311 Speaker 2: and injured mather earth. You know, the injury to mather 43 00:03:02,431 --> 00:03:05,991 Speaker 2: earth is evident every time the fish die in the 44 00:03:06,071 --> 00:03:10,991 Speaker 2: Murray Darling basin, every time the coral bleaches and Queensland, 45 00:03:12,111 --> 00:03:18,511 Speaker 2: every time our soil blows away in the malley and 46 00:03:18,551 --> 00:03:21,511 Speaker 2: you know, near Birdsville and places like that. You know, 47 00:03:21,551 --> 00:03:27,191 Speaker 2: it's because of bad agricultural practice, prove failure to acknowledge 48 00:03:27,231 --> 00:03:31,991 Speaker 2: original people's methods, and so we're trying to do something 49 00:03:31,991 --> 00:03:34,951 Speaker 2: about up there. And I've been forming to people today 50 00:03:36,031 --> 00:03:41,511 Speaker 2: from various parts of the countries who are involved in 51 00:03:41,671 --> 00:03:46,831 Speaker 2: trying to reverse those bad practices, and they're all Aboriginal. 52 00:03:47,791 --> 00:03:48,751 Speaker 1: How deadly is that? 53 00:03:49,111 --> 00:03:54,311 Speaker 2: The thrilled for me that Aboriginal people are so involved 54 00:03:54,351 --> 00:03:59,911 Speaker 2: in this regenerative movement because we can restore our culture 55 00:03:59,911 --> 00:04:04,951 Speaker 2: this way and restore our pride, but also be a 56 00:04:05,071 --> 00:04:09,791 Speaker 2: practical assistance to the communities, because instead of being employed 57 00:04:09,831 --> 00:04:15,751 Speaker 2: by government to do nothing, will be involved in growing 58 00:04:15,791 --> 00:04:19,351 Speaker 2: out traditional foods. You know, it seems that government love 59 00:04:19,471 --> 00:04:24,271 Speaker 2: Aboriginal people being unemployed because they train the hell out 60 00:04:24,311 --> 00:04:25,751 Speaker 2: of us and give us no job. 61 00:04:25,871 --> 00:04:29,071 Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how many blackfellows have got certificates, 62 00:04:29,071 --> 00:04:30,431 Speaker 1: every certificate. 63 00:04:29,911 --> 00:04:35,151 Speaker 2: You can think of, Uncle right, the biggest food driving steamrollers, 64 00:04:35,191 --> 00:04:38,511 Speaker 2: you know, and we haven't got a steam roller down here. 65 00:04:38,591 --> 00:04:42,311 Speaker 2: So the have unemployed people, but they've all got steam 66 00:04:42,391 --> 00:04:46,831 Speaker 2: rollers certificates. You know. It's ridiculous. And the government talks 67 00:04:46,871 --> 00:04:50,431 Speaker 2: about closing gaps and stuff like that, but really the 68 00:04:50,471 --> 00:04:52,791 Speaker 2: only way to do it is make sure that Aborginal 69 00:04:52,831 --> 00:04:56,791 Speaker 2: people are part of society, are not deliberately kept out. 70 00:04:57,911 --> 00:04:59,911 Speaker 2: We don't want to be trained for training sakes. We 71 00:04:59,991 --> 00:05:03,231 Speaker 2: want a job, and if we've been training for that job, 72 00:05:03,751 --> 00:05:07,791 Speaker 2: then give a choice. But also make sure that educational 73 00:05:07,831 --> 00:05:10,391 Speaker 2: opportunities are available to us when our kids are young. 74 00:05:10,711 --> 00:05:13,231 Speaker 2: Of course they wait until they're unemployed in thirty five. 75 00:05:13,871 --> 00:05:16,631 Speaker 1: Of course, I think when I go back to hearing 76 00:05:16,671 --> 00:05:21,111 Speaker 1: my dad on radio, it was always always talking about 77 00:05:21,111 --> 00:05:26,111 Speaker 1: self determination. We need to be self determined and self governed, 78 00:05:26,311 --> 00:05:28,911 Speaker 1: And now I can see what he was talking about. 79 00:05:29,311 --> 00:05:33,031 Speaker 1: You know, when our mob have employment and they could 80 00:05:33,031 --> 00:05:36,711 Speaker 1: put food on the table and they're looking after their family, 81 00:05:36,791 --> 00:05:40,231 Speaker 1: that changes the narrative in that family, in that community. 82 00:05:41,151 --> 00:05:43,551 Speaker 1: But they're part of something much bigger than just going 83 00:05:43,671 --> 00:05:47,831 Speaker 1: to work. When they're doing stuff that actually makes them 84 00:05:47,911 --> 00:05:52,671 Speaker 1: feel good that they're contributing to society, that they're reinvigorating 85 00:05:52,871 --> 00:05:57,791 Speaker 1: their culture, their connection to country, their health and well being. Like, 86 00:05:57,951 --> 00:06:00,791 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of some of the foods that you 87 00:06:00,871 --> 00:06:04,631 Speaker 1: might harvest. I heard that you've got kangaroo grass, which 88 00:06:04,671 --> 00:06:08,871 Speaker 1: is like a nourishing super food, you know, an alternative 89 00:06:08,911 --> 00:06:09,431 Speaker 1: to wheat. 90 00:06:10,471 --> 00:06:13,151 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of those foods that were growing. 91 00:06:13,591 --> 00:06:18,191 Speaker 2: You know, we're grown four or five different grasses converting 92 00:06:18,191 --> 00:06:22,031 Speaker 2: them all into flour. They're all gluten free. During COVID, 93 00:06:22,831 --> 00:06:25,311 Speaker 2: my daughter and her family had to stay on the 94 00:06:25,391 --> 00:06:29,191 Speaker 2: farm and my daughter was breaking a loc of bread 95 00:06:29,231 --> 00:06:35,111 Speaker 2: every second day from our flour and pleading it too. 96 00:06:35,311 --> 00:06:39,911 Speaker 2: Were kids by grandkids, and you know, we felt really 97 00:06:39,951 --> 00:06:43,471 Speaker 2: good about it. Not only we were learning our culture, 98 00:06:43,511 --> 00:06:46,951 Speaker 2: but we were growing up our kids as well. And 99 00:06:46,951 --> 00:06:52,911 Speaker 2: it was very important for Australia to learn that these 100 00:06:53,031 --> 00:06:56,631 Speaker 2: old groins were chosen for a reason because they're so healthy, 101 00:06:58,511 --> 00:07:01,951 Speaker 2: and they weren't chosen by accident. They were deliberately chosen 102 00:07:01,991 --> 00:07:05,951 Speaker 2: by the old because of their health giving properties. And 103 00:07:06,711 --> 00:07:12,111 Speaker 2: they don't need any more water than the the sky delivers. 104 00:07:12,311 --> 00:07:19,871 Speaker 2: What Mother Earth receives from Father Sky, and our tubers 105 00:07:19,911 --> 00:07:23,591 Speaker 2: are the same. They're perennials. So you don't need to 106 00:07:23,591 --> 00:07:26,351 Speaker 2: plow the land, you don't need to add extra water, 107 00:07:26,911 --> 00:07:29,391 Speaker 2: you don't need to put on fertilizer, you don't need 108 00:07:29,431 --> 00:07:35,111 Speaker 2: to put on pesticide and herbicide. So if farmers start 109 00:07:35,191 --> 00:07:38,711 Speaker 2: growing these, and hopefully a proportion of those farmers will 110 00:07:38,711 --> 00:07:43,511 Speaker 2: be our people, then we will be repairing the earth. 111 00:07:45,071 --> 00:07:47,991 Speaker 2: What average of people don't often have is land, so 112 00:07:48,151 --> 00:07:51,231 Speaker 2: that was taken away from us. So don't talk about 113 00:07:52,551 --> 00:07:54,831 Speaker 2: close in the gap. Talk about give it a bit 114 00:07:54,871 --> 00:07:58,151 Speaker 2: of land back to blackfellows so we can become independent. 115 00:07:58,471 --> 00:08:00,031 Speaker 1: I think that sounds good. 116 00:08:00,191 --> 00:08:04,391 Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, Well that's what Tiger was all always on about, 117 00:08:04,431 --> 00:08:10,111 Speaker 2: you know, us being independed, and so you know, I 118 00:08:10,231 --> 00:08:12,951 Speaker 2: really always enjoyed talking to him because he was a 119 00:08:13,071 --> 00:08:17,951 Speaker 2: very positive man. He didn't want to bitch a moment. 120 00:08:17,991 --> 00:08:20,511 Speaker 2: He wanted to get on with life, and he wanted 121 00:08:20,591 --> 00:08:23,311 Speaker 2: us all to get on with our lives. And here 122 00:08:23,351 --> 00:08:24,791 Speaker 2: was an inspiration to us. 123 00:08:25,791 --> 00:08:26,391 Speaker 3: Sure I was. 124 00:08:26,471 --> 00:08:30,631 Speaker 1: And I always always go back to when I'm sitting 125 00:08:30,711 --> 00:08:33,231 Speaker 1: here in a studio with a microphone in front of me, thinking, 126 00:08:33,391 --> 00:08:35,871 Speaker 1: I never ever thought that this would be what I do. 127 00:08:36,551 --> 00:08:39,831 Speaker 1: Even though I don't do this for my full time, 128 00:08:40,111 --> 00:08:43,871 Speaker 1: you know, full time job. This is my passion. My 129 00:08:43,991 --> 00:08:47,351 Speaker 1: passion is about how do we get other abishntage on 130 00:08:47,471 --> 00:08:50,991 Speaker 1: to people's right, How do we give them a voice. 131 00:08:51,031 --> 00:08:54,671 Speaker 1: How do we kind of amplify their voices so that 132 00:08:54,831 --> 00:08:57,991 Speaker 1: people not only in this country, uncle, We've got a 133 00:08:57,991 --> 00:09:02,311 Speaker 1: global audience now with this podcast. How can we share 134 00:09:03,711 --> 00:09:09,191 Speaker 1: our culture, our history, our knowledge, our experience, our inventions, 135 00:09:10,191 --> 00:09:13,551 Speaker 1: you know, just share our deadliness with the rest. 136 00:09:13,311 --> 00:09:13,831 Speaker 2: Of the world. 137 00:09:14,031 --> 00:09:15,991 Speaker 1: And that's what I enjoy doing and speaking to people 138 00:09:16,031 --> 00:09:19,991 Speaker 1: like yourself to just understand, you know, despite being a 139 00:09:19,991 --> 00:09:22,151 Speaker 1: black fella and despite all of the odds that are 140 00:09:22,191 --> 00:09:25,671 Speaker 1: against us, how do we draw from our strength? And 141 00:09:25,751 --> 00:09:28,151 Speaker 1: that's what my dad really kind of pushed with us 142 00:09:28,151 --> 00:09:31,631 Speaker 1: young people. You know, eight daughters, you know them old 143 00:09:31,631 --> 00:09:35,431 Speaker 1: people went through the fights and went through those struggles 144 00:09:35,431 --> 00:09:37,711 Speaker 1: for us to have what we have today. So how 145 00:09:37,751 --> 00:09:40,111 Speaker 1: can we draw from our strengths and not from our weaknesses. 146 00:09:40,111 --> 00:09:41,991 Speaker 1: And in terms of closing gap, I love the fact 147 00:09:41,991 --> 00:09:45,871 Speaker 1: that you mentioned that because I work in an industry where, 148 00:09:45,951 --> 00:09:50,271 Speaker 1: you know, everyone's talking about closing the gap. I always 149 00:09:50,511 --> 00:09:52,791 Speaker 1: always say to people, and this comes directly from my 150 00:09:52,871 --> 00:09:56,391 Speaker 1: old people, any mayor in Anililla, we're not all victims, 151 00:09:56,951 --> 00:10:00,191 Speaker 1: you know, We're we're owners and runners of country. We 152 00:10:00,391 --> 00:10:05,471 Speaker 1: ran an entire country for tens of thousands of years 153 00:10:05,511 --> 00:10:10,671 Speaker 1: without any outside interference, without a need for armies, police 154 00:10:10,711 --> 00:10:14,471 Speaker 1: and prisons, and we never invaded our neighbors. Uncle, We 155 00:10:14,591 --> 00:10:18,631 Speaker 1: ran this country. We might not have always had peace, 156 00:10:18,671 --> 00:10:21,751 Speaker 1: but it's not about living in peace. It's about how 157 00:10:21,791 --> 00:10:27,071 Speaker 1: do you have a stable, efficient society, stability and efficiency 158 00:10:27,071 --> 00:10:28,911 Speaker 1: that's going to last you tens of thousands of years. 159 00:10:29,191 --> 00:10:32,111 Speaker 1: How do you live in harmony and balance with the land, 160 00:10:32,311 --> 00:10:33,791 Speaker 1: you know, And that's what we need to do. That's 161 00:10:33,791 --> 00:10:35,271 Speaker 1: what we need to go back to when you think 162 00:10:35,311 --> 00:10:36,751 Speaker 1: about the work that you're doing. 163 00:10:37,311 --> 00:10:40,511 Speaker 2: Yeah, there, we we had good government. Our people were 164 00:10:40,551 --> 00:10:45,151 Speaker 2: wise governors, and I had worked out a really good law, 165 00:10:46,351 --> 00:10:51,471 Speaker 2: l Ori, of how people ought to behave in respect 166 00:10:51,471 --> 00:10:57,031 Speaker 2: to the earth, not about ourselves, not about the inter 167 00:10:57,191 --> 00:11:02,271 Speaker 2: relationships between people necessarily, but about how we related to 168 00:11:02,311 --> 00:11:05,471 Speaker 2: the earth. And you know, that's why I think that 169 00:11:05,631 --> 00:11:08,751 Speaker 2: none abridging society, this is out on. So if we 170 00:11:08,791 --> 00:11:13,511 Speaker 2: can bring back our own culture, respect, our own culture, 171 00:11:14,231 --> 00:11:17,871 Speaker 2: each that culture to our kids and support them in 172 00:11:17,911 --> 00:11:22,551 Speaker 2: their learning, keep them at school. Look, don't worry about 173 00:11:22,631 --> 00:11:26,831 Speaker 2: getting a wide education, because it's an education and we 174 00:11:26,911 --> 00:11:30,151 Speaker 2: could build on top of that education. Because you do 175 00:11:30,231 --> 00:11:32,511 Speaker 2: the wide education, then you do your law as well. 176 00:11:32,551 --> 00:11:37,711 Speaker 2: You're twice educated, end up with two degrees and they're complementary. 177 00:11:38,511 --> 00:11:42,111 Speaker 2: And we can change wide education anyway. You know, we 178 00:11:42,151 --> 00:11:45,431 Speaker 2: can make sure that our history is included in But 179 00:11:45,591 --> 00:11:47,231 Speaker 2: if we can do that, we're going to help the 180 00:11:47,271 --> 00:11:51,231 Speaker 2: rest of Australia as well stop being such a racist country. 181 00:11:51,431 --> 00:11:54,151 Speaker 2: You know, I really hate that about my country. Then 182 00:11:54,151 --> 00:11:58,351 Speaker 2: it's a racist country. But when Aubriagal people are killed 183 00:11:58,391 --> 00:12:02,391 Speaker 2: in jail and nobody gives them cares about it, then 184 00:12:03,031 --> 00:12:04,191 Speaker 2: that's what it is. 185 00:12:04,431 --> 00:12:06,271 Speaker 1: Systemic, systemic racism. 186 00:12:06,311 --> 00:12:09,711 Speaker 2: My uncle in New South Wales glad it's perergically and 187 00:12:09,791 --> 00:12:13,951 Speaker 2: wanted to change one word in the national anthem to 188 00:12:14,031 --> 00:12:17,391 Speaker 2: get rid of young. You know, we are young and free. 189 00:12:17,471 --> 00:12:19,671 Speaker 2: She wanted to get rid of young and make it 190 00:12:19,711 --> 00:12:23,351 Speaker 2: one we are one and free. You know, just that 191 00:12:23,551 --> 00:12:27,511 Speaker 2: timey little change and the National Party went ape. You know, oh, 192 00:12:27,591 --> 00:12:33,231 Speaker 2: you know that's disrespectful to our ancestors. Our disrespectful is 193 00:12:33,271 --> 00:12:37,111 Speaker 2: it to our ancestors? Of course we have to change 194 00:12:37,151 --> 00:12:38,671 Speaker 2: the minds of those people. 195 00:12:38,911 --> 00:12:41,351 Speaker 1: Of course, what about I saw yesterday there when you're 196 00:12:41,351 --> 00:12:45,111 Speaker 1: thinking about government or parliament, I saw a tweet there 197 00:12:45,311 --> 00:12:48,631 Speaker 1: I think might have been from Lydia Thorpe talking about 198 00:12:48,831 --> 00:12:52,871 Speaker 1: the Liberal Party and I think it was one nation. 199 00:12:53,151 --> 00:12:57,471 Speaker 1: Both voted for the Aberginal flag not to be raised 200 00:12:57,551 --> 00:13:02,111 Speaker 1: in Nadock week in parliament. They both agreed, like seriously, 201 00:13:02,911 --> 00:13:05,511 Speaker 1: But that's where we're right when you think about politics, 202 00:13:05,551 --> 00:13:07,191 Speaker 1: and that's that is. 203 00:13:07,351 --> 00:13:09,831 Speaker 2: Look, the rest of Australia is leaving them, mum behind 204 00:13:10,031 --> 00:13:13,191 Speaker 2: of course, you know I shouldn't obsess about pulling hands 205 00:13:13,191 --> 00:13:17,191 Speaker 2: and I can't remember this guy's name today, the new 206 00:13:17,271 --> 00:13:21,471 Speaker 2: South Wales plumimenteering. You know, we're leaving them behind. The dinosaurs, 207 00:13:21,511 --> 00:13:23,991 Speaker 2: you know, of course our great great grandkids will be 208 00:13:24,031 --> 00:13:27,431 Speaker 2: picking up their bones and wondering who they were. You know, 209 00:13:27,431 --> 00:13:32,831 Speaker 2: there's this old fossils because you know, the rest of Australia, 210 00:13:32,951 --> 00:13:36,471 Speaker 2: young Australia. I'm sure it will soon be a majority 211 00:13:36,551 --> 00:13:43,391 Speaker 2: voice in supporting the Aboriginal people. And I think times 212 00:13:43,431 --> 00:13:47,671 Speaker 2: are changing. So make sure your kids and your grandkids 213 00:13:47,671 --> 00:13:51,671 Speaker 2: are educated because you don't want to miss the boat. 214 00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:54,951 Speaker 2: You know, we've been dispossessed once. We don't want to 215 00:13:54,991 --> 00:13:59,151 Speaker 2: be dispossessed twice because we have missed the boat of education, 216 00:13:59,711 --> 00:14:01,991 Speaker 2: and our kids can't get jobs and things like that, 217 00:14:02,071 --> 00:14:06,551 Speaker 2: because kids will always need education, because white tide is 218 00:14:06,591 --> 00:14:09,191 Speaker 2: not going away. N that's the society we live in. 219 00:14:09,711 --> 00:14:12,511 Speaker 2: This system in one form or another, will be here. 220 00:14:12,831 --> 00:14:15,351 Speaker 2: Let's get on top of it. Let's change it, let's 221 00:14:15,351 --> 00:14:15,871 Speaker 2: make it out. 222 00:14:15,991 --> 00:14:17,391 Speaker 1: Well, that's a dad, you say, say you got to 223 00:14:17,431 --> 00:14:20,431 Speaker 1: learn them white fellow, learn that white follow way. Go 224 00:14:20,511 --> 00:14:23,231 Speaker 1: in there, go to those schools, Go and get a 225 00:14:23,271 --> 00:14:25,431 Speaker 1: good education if you want to go to university, or 226 00:14:25,431 --> 00:14:28,551 Speaker 1: go and get a job, but make sure you come 227 00:14:28,591 --> 00:14:31,551 Speaker 1: back to the community and you bring what you learned. 228 00:14:31,671 --> 00:14:33,591 Speaker 1: You bring it back to the community. That's what my 229 00:14:33,671 --> 00:14:36,551 Speaker 1: dad used to say, that you've got to learn both ways, 230 00:14:36,551 --> 00:14:39,391 Speaker 1: both words abrage and the world murrayworld, and you've got 231 00:14:39,431 --> 00:14:42,111 Speaker 1: to learn the western world, that white follow world. And 232 00:14:42,431 --> 00:14:45,471 Speaker 1: I always think, uncle, when I talk to everyday people, 233 00:14:45,631 --> 00:14:48,071 Speaker 1: especially the corporates that come and do black cart training, 234 00:14:49,031 --> 00:14:52,311 Speaker 1: we're talking about these two worlds. At Abersinal people are 235 00:14:52,431 --> 00:14:56,391 Speaker 1: navigating or even code switching, right, code switching. We're in 236 00:14:56,431 --> 00:14:57,991 Speaker 1: Aghbra's and the world. Next minute we're talking to white 237 00:14:57,991 --> 00:15:00,631 Speaker 1: files from the White Fellow world. We're going between these 238 00:15:00,631 --> 00:15:03,591 Speaker 1: two worlds at any given time, But how do we 239 00:15:03,631 --> 00:15:07,191 Speaker 1: She pushed the two worlds closer together so people from 240 00:15:07,271 --> 00:15:09,911 Speaker 1: both worlds have a good understanding of each other. And 241 00:15:09,911 --> 00:15:13,431 Speaker 1: that's one of my objectives. Like you said, we've got 242 00:15:13,431 --> 00:15:16,151 Speaker 1: to know that White Fellow world right, this Western society 243 00:15:16,191 --> 00:15:19,231 Speaker 1: that we now live in today. Otherwise we're going to 244 00:15:19,271 --> 00:15:21,551 Speaker 1: get left behind and we're already playing catch up. 245 00:15:21,911 --> 00:15:26,551 Speaker 2: Yeah, if we don't get on the front foot and 246 00:15:27,151 --> 00:15:31,231 Speaker 2: get ready, we'll still be talking about closing the gap 247 00:15:31,271 --> 00:15:32,311 Speaker 2: one hundred years time. 248 00:15:33,151 --> 00:15:37,471 Speaker 1: That'll be. That's probably my worst fear is the fact 249 00:15:37,471 --> 00:15:40,311 Speaker 1: that more likely my children will be doing the work 250 00:15:40,311 --> 00:15:43,271 Speaker 1: that I'm doing today. My dad did this work. My 251 00:15:43,391 --> 00:15:46,391 Speaker 1: grandmother did it till she passed away. Annie Lilla, my 252 00:15:46,431 --> 00:15:50,551 Speaker 1: grandmother's sister, my business partner, she's eighty and she only 253 00:15:50,631 --> 00:15:53,231 Speaker 1: just recently uncle. She said, oh, I'm hanging up the boots, 254 00:15:53,471 --> 00:15:56,631 Speaker 1: my girl. I don't want to be doing this work 255 00:15:57,311 --> 00:16:01,111 Speaker 1: at eighty. I'm thirty seven, and I really do hope 256 00:16:01,191 --> 00:16:07,671 Speaker 1: that all Astra All Australians start to do their own research. 257 00:16:07,791 --> 00:16:09,231 Speaker 1: Just as if you're going to go to China on 258 00:16:09,231 --> 00:16:13,551 Speaker 1: a holiday. You learn about the country. You learn about 259 00:16:13,631 --> 00:16:16,991 Speaker 1: the dos that do not, what's polite, how to say 260 00:16:17,031 --> 00:16:19,351 Speaker 1: please and thank you, or maybe how to order it, 261 00:16:19,751 --> 00:16:21,751 Speaker 1: you know, a meal in the local language. As you 262 00:16:21,791 --> 00:16:25,431 Speaker 1: travel around, you kind of research that people need to 263 00:16:25,431 --> 00:16:28,391 Speaker 1: do when engaging with our mob when coming into our communities. 264 00:16:29,031 --> 00:16:33,711 Speaker 1: How do you conduct yourself as a visitor because you're 265 00:16:33,751 --> 00:16:37,871 Speaker 1: on somebody else's country. Whether you agree or not, you're 266 00:16:37,911 --> 00:16:40,751 Speaker 1: a visitor on somebody else's country and you should be 267 00:16:40,831 --> 00:16:43,991 Speaker 1: conducting yourself in that manner. 268 00:16:50,431 --> 00:16:52,871 Speaker 2: I've just got a new book out called Loving Country, 269 00:16:53,711 --> 00:16:59,391 Speaker 2: which is about Aboriginal tourism. You know the tourist operations 270 00:16:59,431 --> 00:17:04,071 Speaker 2: that Aboriginal people have started up in Australia. Definitely that 271 00:17:05,471 --> 00:17:10,231 Speaker 2: both Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australians can visit different parts 272 00:17:10,271 --> 00:17:14,711 Speaker 2: of the country and go on a tour with Aboriginal people, 273 00:17:15,471 --> 00:17:18,511 Speaker 2: so that money goes into that community. But also learn 274 00:17:18,591 --> 00:17:21,991 Speaker 2: those stories and do what your science is. Be respectful, 275 00:17:22,511 --> 00:17:24,791 Speaker 2: learn what you need to do to be respectful, how 276 00:17:24,911 --> 00:17:29,751 Speaker 2: you behave yourself on that country. So that you're not 277 00:17:29,791 --> 00:17:34,951 Speaker 2: offending local people and their ancestors. And you know, I 278 00:17:34,991 --> 00:17:39,151 Speaker 2: think that our communities are going to benefit a lot 279 00:17:39,231 --> 00:17:45,711 Speaker 2: from tourism because there's a huge international audience for knowledge 280 00:17:45,711 --> 00:17:49,951 Speaker 2: of Aboriginal culture and life. It's not so big in Australia, 281 00:17:49,991 --> 00:17:52,271 Speaker 2: but it will grow definitely, and it's going to grow 282 00:17:52,311 --> 00:17:56,391 Speaker 2: this summer because Australians can't go to Bali anymore. You know, 283 00:17:56,591 --> 00:17:57,991 Speaker 2: if they're going to have a holiday, they're going to 284 00:17:58,031 --> 00:18:01,431 Speaker 2: have it in Australia. And it's domestic beyond Aboriginal. 285 00:18:01,351 --> 00:18:03,111 Speaker 1: Yep, that domestic market yep. 286 00:18:04,591 --> 00:18:09,311 Speaker 2: So you know, communities can take advantage of this economically, 287 00:18:09,751 --> 00:18:13,311 Speaker 2: but also it's a way of controlling the experience and 288 00:18:13,391 --> 00:18:15,991 Speaker 2: controlling the behavior of visitors to your land. 289 00:18:16,671 --> 00:18:20,151 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's some amazing resources out there. You just 290 00:18:20,231 --> 00:18:22,751 Speaker 1: named your new book, but I actually want to now 291 00:18:22,791 --> 00:18:26,471 Speaker 1: talk about what you're well known for. And I know 292 00:18:26,551 --> 00:18:31,311 Speaker 1: that you've been teaching history in schools I heard from 293 00:18:31,511 --> 00:18:34,551 Speaker 1: from a long time ago. You've been in that education 294 00:18:34,711 --> 00:18:40,031 Speaker 1: space and writing books and exploring our history as Aboriginal 295 00:18:40,071 --> 00:18:43,551 Speaker 1: people in this country, in particular when it comes to agriculture. 296 00:18:44,191 --> 00:18:49,311 Speaker 1: So dark em you black Seeds agriculture or accident. You know, 297 00:18:49,351 --> 00:18:53,871 Speaker 1: has attracted considerable attention, you know, for your discussion around 298 00:18:53,991 --> 00:18:59,031 Speaker 1: land management practices in Australia, But prior to colonization, can 299 00:18:59,111 --> 00:19:01,551 Speaker 1: you talk to our listeners or share with our listeners 300 00:19:02,071 --> 00:19:03,551 Speaker 1: how dark em you come about? 301 00:19:04,151 --> 00:19:09,471 Speaker 2: Ah, Look, it started in anger, and you know I 302 00:19:09,511 --> 00:19:14,071 Speaker 2: had to. I had to control that because that's what 303 00:19:14,231 --> 00:19:17,711 Speaker 2: my mother and grandmother would have insisted on. No, you're 304 00:19:17,831 --> 00:19:21,111 Speaker 2: getting angry, you know, you've got to do something positive. 305 00:19:21,951 --> 00:19:26,111 Speaker 2: But I did feel angry because when I was I 306 00:19:26,151 --> 00:19:29,951 Speaker 2: was very ignorant of my own culture, incredibly ignorant, and 307 00:19:30,111 --> 00:19:35,951 Speaker 2: I was directed, who get a better understanding of that 308 00:19:38,111 --> 00:19:42,511 Speaker 2: culture and history by you know, the same people that 309 00:19:42,591 --> 00:19:45,831 Speaker 2: I was asking about my family, And I said, well, 310 00:19:46,031 --> 00:19:48,311 Speaker 2: you know, you can't just talk about your family, You've 311 00:19:48,311 --> 00:19:50,991 Speaker 2: got to talk about all the families and what happened. 312 00:19:50,991 --> 00:19:55,591 Speaker 2: And that led me to writing a book about the 313 00:19:56,191 --> 00:20:01,351 Speaker 2: Contact period war in Australia and from that I then 314 00:20:01,991 --> 00:20:05,671 Speaker 2: found all this information about what the so called Australian 315 00:20:05,751 --> 00:20:12,351 Speaker 2: explorers saw. Now, these explorers are revered, you know, they're 316 00:20:13,191 --> 00:20:16,151 Speaker 2: more revered than prime ministers and Donald Bradman. You know, 317 00:20:16,591 --> 00:20:21,791 Speaker 2: what they saw was seemed to be the gospel truth. 318 00:20:22,511 --> 00:20:25,151 Speaker 2: And what many of them wrote about was our bridgettal 319 00:20:25,191 --> 00:20:32,391 Speaker 2: people growing, irrigating, harvesting, threshing, converting grains and interurbors into 320 00:20:32,511 --> 00:20:36,631 Speaker 2: food products, making flour, the first people in the world 321 00:20:37,071 --> 00:20:43,151 Speaker 2: to bake bread sixty five thousand years ago. And you know, 322 00:20:43,631 --> 00:20:47,471 Speaker 2: I got angry because I was singing, how come I 323 00:20:47,631 --> 00:20:50,991 Speaker 2: never learned that our people made bread sixty five thousand 324 00:20:51,071 --> 00:20:54,991 Speaker 2: years ago? What geography teacher, what history teacher, what English 325 00:20:54,991 --> 00:21:01,111 Speaker 2: teacher decided that this was information an Australian kid, regardless 326 00:21:01,111 --> 00:21:04,911 Speaker 2: of whether they're white or black, should be denied. Who 327 00:21:04,991 --> 00:21:09,511 Speaker 2: decided that this wasn't interesting? You know? You know when 328 00:21:09,551 --> 00:21:13,071 Speaker 2: I did history and geography, I was learning about white 329 00:21:13,071 --> 00:21:16,631 Speaker 2: fellows in wool, white fellows in gold, white fellas, and 330 00:21:16,631 --> 00:21:20,511 Speaker 2: wheat white fellows and government. I didn't learn we were. 331 00:21:20,511 --> 00:21:24,311 Speaker 1: Left out of it completely right, as our original people 332 00:21:24,391 --> 00:21:28,231 Speaker 1: and what we did and how we were, you know, 333 00:21:28,791 --> 00:21:31,031 Speaker 1: managing the land was left out. 334 00:21:30,831 --> 00:21:34,871 Speaker 2: Of all of that. Yeah, and these are things that 335 00:21:35,271 --> 00:21:40,151 Speaker 2: aren't just interesting, they're valuable because we're failing to get 336 00:21:40,271 --> 00:21:44,551 Speaker 2: enough water to water these exotic introduced crops now like 337 00:21:45,271 --> 00:21:48,751 Speaker 2: bloody cotton and rice and things like that. I mean 338 00:21:48,791 --> 00:21:52,071 Speaker 2: when I say rice, I mean the European, the Asian rice. Yep, 339 00:21:52,191 --> 00:21:55,431 Speaker 2: not our rice, because our rice grew in our conditions. 340 00:21:55,951 --> 00:22:00,591 Speaker 2: But we're expending a lot of water on these exotic 341 00:22:00,671 --> 00:22:04,031 Speaker 2: crops in Australia when we had our own crops. And 342 00:22:04,111 --> 00:22:08,511 Speaker 2: if those pig headed pioneers had looked around to see 343 00:22:08,551 --> 00:22:11,391 Speaker 2: what our people were actually doing, they would have seen 344 00:22:11,431 --> 00:22:15,991 Speaker 2: that we were growing myrnon in one single field between 345 00:22:16,071 --> 00:22:20,511 Speaker 2: Melbourne and Adelaide, that the Abaginal grain belt was three 346 00:22:20,591 --> 00:22:23,351 Speaker 2: times as big as the current Australian wheat belt. All 347 00:22:23,431 --> 00:22:28,231 Speaker 2: those things which should have been ringing bells in their 348 00:22:28,271 --> 00:22:32,231 Speaker 2: ears and flashing red lights in their face, they this 349 00:22:32,431 --> 00:22:35,511 Speaker 2: is what this country is good at. These people have 350 00:22:35,631 --> 00:22:38,671 Speaker 2: been at it for one hundred thousand years. They know 351 00:22:38,831 --> 00:22:43,031 Speaker 2: what they're doing. Instead of that they get the race there. Yes, 352 00:22:43,151 --> 00:22:47,431 Speaker 2: we acknowledge our ways, because if they did, they would 353 00:22:47,471 --> 00:22:52,471 Speaker 2: have had to have said to themselves the invasion is illegal, of. 354 00:22:52,471 --> 00:22:55,111 Speaker 1: Course, of course. But when I think about uncle, the 355 00:22:55,151 --> 00:22:58,551 Speaker 1: fact that we had agriculture, right, I hear it a lot, 356 00:22:58,751 --> 00:23:02,031 Speaker 1: and I only heard it just recently. Honey Mary, an 357 00:23:02,071 --> 00:23:06,671 Speaker 1: amazing elder and academic political scientists, right. Ani Mari done 358 00:23:06,671 --> 00:23:08,671 Speaker 1: a session today and sha Alway says, oh, look, you've 359 00:23:08,671 --> 00:23:12,231 Speaker 1: got these racists. I still want to say that Aberiginal 360 00:23:12,311 --> 00:23:15,031 Speaker 1: people were so backwards that you didn't even discover the wheel. 361 00:23:15,991 --> 00:23:19,471 Speaker 1: Ani Mary said, there's a logical reason why we didn't 362 00:23:19,511 --> 00:23:23,191 Speaker 1: discover the wheel. You only need the wheel when you 363 00:23:23,271 --> 00:23:28,551 Speaker 1: have large scale agriculture, because then you need to cut 364 00:23:28,671 --> 00:23:32,111 Speaker 1: that agriculture that produce from one place to another place, 365 00:23:32,151 --> 00:23:34,271 Speaker 1: and then it needs to be sorted, it needs to 366 00:23:34,311 --> 00:23:38,791 Speaker 1: be counted, and that's when writing comes into play. So 367 00:23:38,951 --> 00:23:42,631 Speaker 1: we did not have writing. Writing took off in the 368 00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:44,911 Speaker 1: Middle East, in China and in India and those other 369 00:23:44,951 --> 00:23:49,511 Speaker 1: ancient countries. The land is so old, it's the driest 370 00:23:49,671 --> 00:23:52,671 Speaker 1: continent on the planet. We've lived through two ice ages. 371 00:23:53,311 --> 00:23:55,391 Speaker 1: We knew the land so well that we knew what 372 00:23:55,471 --> 00:23:58,111 Speaker 1: we could grow and what we could sustain, what the 373 00:23:58,191 --> 00:24:01,871 Speaker 1: land could sustain. And I think that's what people don't understand, 374 00:24:01,951 --> 00:24:05,391 Speaker 1: is that, you know, if we wanted to have smaller 375 00:24:05,431 --> 00:24:09,031 Speaker 1: scale agriculture, then we could, but there were some places 376 00:24:09,031 --> 00:24:12,431 Speaker 1: where we couldn't grow certain things. How can we get 377 00:24:12,711 --> 00:24:15,151 Speaker 1: when you think about a lot of our farmers, I 378 00:24:15,191 --> 00:24:17,391 Speaker 1: see them on the news every now and again, and 379 00:24:17,471 --> 00:24:19,431 Speaker 1: I'm always feeling a bit sorry for him. You know, 380 00:24:19,431 --> 00:24:22,151 Speaker 1: you go for these poor fellows, they've had a drought 381 00:24:22,191 --> 00:24:25,551 Speaker 1: for four years and all and all of their you know, 382 00:24:25,591 --> 00:24:29,551 Speaker 1: their cattle or sheep, whatever they've got, you know, don't 383 00:24:29,631 --> 00:24:32,231 Speaker 1: look don't look like they've had a feed for a while. 384 00:24:32,591 --> 00:24:36,871 Speaker 1: But how do we get them to realize right that 385 00:24:37,711 --> 00:24:40,871 Speaker 1: whatever they're trying to grow on farm? You know, over 386 00:24:40,911 --> 00:24:42,471 Speaker 1: all these years that you've had to go and all 387 00:24:42,471 --> 00:24:45,511 Speaker 1: these generations, and the fact that we're still having droughts, 388 00:24:46,151 --> 00:24:48,031 Speaker 1: you know, what are we going to do? How can 389 00:24:48,071 --> 00:24:50,631 Speaker 1: we get them to see, Okay, maybe you need to 390 00:24:50,711 --> 00:24:52,951 Speaker 1: change the way you're doing things. 391 00:24:53,631 --> 00:24:55,911 Speaker 2: Well, it's not going to be rocket science. It's going 392 00:24:55,951 --> 00:24:59,271 Speaker 2: to be pocket science. Because those fellows are going broke. 393 00:25:00,231 --> 00:25:04,591 Speaker 2: You know, they lurched from one drought to another, you know, 394 00:25:04,711 --> 00:25:09,671 Speaker 2: one blade on their crop to another, and you know, 395 00:25:10,031 --> 00:25:13,071 Speaker 2: because they're the wrong crops in the wrong country. 396 00:25:13,231 --> 00:25:13,751 Speaker 1: Of course. 397 00:25:14,631 --> 00:25:18,991 Speaker 2: You know, I was listening to a fellow last year 398 00:25:19,471 --> 00:25:20,511 Speaker 2: and he said, oh, I've just. 399 00:25:20,511 --> 00:25:25,391 Speaker 3: Plowed me land all me you know, only soils blowing 400 00:25:25,471 --> 00:25:29,231 Speaker 3: away or be soiled blowing up against me. Fence and 401 00:25:29,391 --> 00:25:34,231 Speaker 3: poor fellow me, poor fellow meat. And you know he is, 402 00:25:34,351 --> 00:25:37,151 Speaker 3: I know where his farm is. It's on the coast. 403 00:25:37,271 --> 00:25:40,631 Speaker 3: It is sand. It's one hundred percent sand. Our people 404 00:25:40,751 --> 00:25:43,191 Speaker 3: never plowed that. We're grou things in it. 405 00:25:43,271 --> 00:25:47,071 Speaker 2: But we never expose that soil to the sun because 406 00:25:47,111 --> 00:25:51,031 Speaker 2: it blows away, you know, and it's you know, if 407 00:25:51,031 --> 00:25:54,791 Speaker 2: you can't, you know, think through your heart, then think 408 00:25:54,911 --> 00:25:57,591 Speaker 2: through your pocket. Realize you're going broken, that you've got 409 00:25:57,631 --> 00:26:00,871 Speaker 2: to change things. Have a look around, swallow your pride, 410 00:26:01,271 --> 00:26:06,391 Speaker 2: look at aboriginal farming practice and learn. And you know, 411 00:26:06,471 --> 00:26:09,191 Speaker 2: people say, oh, you didn't invent the wheel. No, well, 412 00:26:09,231 --> 00:26:10,951 Speaker 2: we didn't have a bullock and we didn't have a 413 00:26:10,991 --> 00:26:16,351 Speaker 2: horse exactly a cart behind. The kangaroos are very bloody, dangerously. 414 00:26:16,311 --> 00:26:21,151 Speaker 1: And we didn't enslave our people right, yeah, right to 415 00:26:21,231 --> 00:26:24,671 Speaker 1: do the work for us because we had no domestictable animals. 416 00:26:25,351 --> 00:26:27,591 Speaker 1: And that's really important that people understand the history of 417 00:26:27,591 --> 00:26:30,231 Speaker 1: this country. Then they'll make sense of that's why. 418 00:26:30,191 --> 00:26:33,951 Speaker 2: They always yea. And we never had unemployment either because 419 00:26:33,991 --> 00:26:38,991 Speaker 2: everybody worked and everybody worked together, you know. But so 420 00:26:39,151 --> 00:26:42,911 Speaker 2: Thomas Mitchell talked about the vastness of that plane of 421 00:26:43,191 --> 00:26:46,991 Speaker 2: mono that grew between Melbourne and Adelaide. It's a massive 422 00:26:47,031 --> 00:26:51,351 Speaker 2: area of land devoted to that crop, crossed about four 423 00:26:51,431 --> 00:26:58,271 Speaker 2: language groups. Everybody had to cooperate in making that that cross. 424 00:26:58,711 --> 00:27:01,791 Speaker 2: Everybody had to cooperate in weeding it, because that's what 425 00:27:01,831 --> 00:27:05,471 Speaker 2: people did. They weeded out the wattle and eucalypse so 426 00:27:05,511 --> 00:27:08,751 Speaker 2: that they could soil could devote its energy to our food. 427 00:27:10,271 --> 00:27:13,751 Speaker 2: And we worked real hard at our mom in order 428 00:27:13,791 --> 00:27:17,911 Speaker 2: to get this food. You know, we weren't waves to anyone. 429 00:27:18,511 --> 00:27:21,791 Speaker 2: We just dug in, you know, we put in for 430 00:27:21,871 --> 00:27:25,071 Speaker 2: our community. And that when we loved it. And all 431 00:27:25,191 --> 00:27:30,191 Speaker 2: that stopped when our women went out into those plastures 432 00:27:30,191 --> 00:27:36,831 Speaker 2: of myrnon tubers and orchards and grasses and were shot 433 00:27:37,151 --> 00:27:42,471 Speaker 2: because white fellows said this is my land. When it stopped. 434 00:27:42,751 --> 00:27:45,631 Speaker 1: And I think that's what people need to understand the impacts, 435 00:27:46,591 --> 00:27:53,791 Speaker 1: the impact of colonialism, the fact that Aberaginal people right 436 00:27:53,831 --> 00:27:57,671 Speaker 1: across this country were taken from their lands. The ones 437 00:27:57,711 --> 00:28:01,311 Speaker 1: that survived the invasion, the ones that survived the massacres, 438 00:28:01,991 --> 00:28:05,271 Speaker 1: the ones that survived the poisoning of the water holes, 439 00:28:05,311 --> 00:28:09,631 Speaker 1: the ones that survived the smallpox epidemic. Right they did 440 00:28:09,791 --> 00:28:12,871 Speaker 1: so much to white bus out and we survived that. 441 00:28:14,111 --> 00:28:16,191 Speaker 1: And then they rounded us up and put us onto 442 00:28:16,231 --> 00:28:19,711 Speaker 1: missions and reserves to protect us because we were seen 443 00:28:19,751 --> 00:28:22,551 Speaker 1: as a race that was nearly extinct. That comes from Tyndale, 444 00:28:23,191 --> 00:28:26,751 Speaker 1: that Aberaginal language map, that anthropologist Tyndale who talked about 445 00:28:27,431 --> 00:28:30,911 Speaker 1: you know, Aboriginal people in the nineteen thirties were nearly extinct, 446 00:28:32,111 --> 00:28:34,631 Speaker 1: so being rounded up and put onto missions and reserves, 447 00:28:34,631 --> 00:28:37,871 Speaker 1: which were no different a reserve heat in Queensland, like 448 00:28:37,951 --> 00:28:42,431 Speaker 1: Palm Island, like Sherbourg, Warabinda, Yarraba, they were no different 449 00:28:42,431 --> 00:28:48,671 Speaker 1: to a concentration camp. The cruelty, the inhumane treatment, the abuse, 450 00:28:49,911 --> 00:28:52,031 Speaker 1: you know the fact that they took children from their 451 00:28:52,071 --> 00:28:55,711 Speaker 1: parents and sent young girls like my nan out to 452 00:28:55,791 --> 00:28:58,351 Speaker 1: work as a ten year old, a little black slave, 453 00:28:58,431 --> 00:29:02,111 Speaker 1: a domestic at ten. And this is what people need 454 00:29:02,151 --> 00:29:05,951 Speaker 1: to understand, this history of our country and the impacts 455 00:29:05,991 --> 00:29:10,231 Speaker 1: of colonialism and how it's disrupted our culture. 456 00:29:11,191 --> 00:29:16,391 Speaker 2: Yeah, my own family moved between Adelaide, Melbourne and Lunceston. 457 00:29:16,951 --> 00:29:20,071 Speaker 2: Every three or four years. They would get up and 458 00:29:20,351 --> 00:29:23,031 Speaker 2: move to one, you know, one of those sites of 459 00:29:23,431 --> 00:29:27,631 Speaker 2: one of those districts, and you know, I was always 460 00:29:27,631 --> 00:29:31,471 Speaker 2: wondering why were they so restless. They weren't restless. They're 461 00:29:31,551 --> 00:29:32,191 Speaker 2: running away. 462 00:29:32,471 --> 00:29:34,511 Speaker 1: They're on the move, the on the move. 463 00:29:35,511 --> 00:29:40,431 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know people are still doing that today, 464 00:29:41,791 --> 00:29:46,591 Speaker 2: abiding their kids from welfare. Still doing it today, you know, 465 00:29:46,711 --> 00:29:50,671 Speaker 2: because you know, I know, you know a number of 466 00:29:50,791 --> 00:29:53,591 Speaker 2: kids who are living in motel rooms have been taken 467 00:29:53,631 --> 00:29:56,631 Speaker 2: away from their parents and they're living in motel rooms. 468 00:29:56,631 --> 00:30:01,111 Speaker 2: That's the best the government can do. You know, thirteen 469 00:30:01,231 --> 00:30:05,511 Speaker 2: forteen year old kids living alone in a motile room. 470 00:30:05,591 --> 00:30:10,071 Speaker 2: So it's a repudiation of the whole society. There are 471 00:30:10,151 --> 00:30:12,191 Speaker 2: some of our kids have to be protected from our 472 00:30:12,231 --> 00:30:16,231 Speaker 2: own parents, no denying that, but what motel room? 473 00:30:16,631 --> 00:30:19,031 Speaker 1: Come on, you know, when you think about it, Uncle, 474 00:30:19,071 --> 00:30:22,111 Speaker 1: we're talking about the fact that there was a government 475 00:30:22,151 --> 00:30:25,271 Speaker 1: policy in place, you know, when my mum was little, 476 00:30:25,351 --> 00:30:28,431 Speaker 1: during her kind of generation, you know, where there was 477 00:30:28,471 --> 00:30:31,951 Speaker 1: a policy to actually forcibly remove abisinal children, especially if 478 00:30:31,951 --> 00:30:35,791 Speaker 1: they had European heritage. So my grandfather was an irishman. 479 00:30:36,551 --> 00:30:38,631 Speaker 1: My mum had red hair and freckles, you know, looked 480 00:30:38,631 --> 00:30:41,671 Speaker 1: as Irish as they come. She was a black woman 481 00:30:41,671 --> 00:30:44,031 Speaker 1: from Redfern, from the block. You know, she knew nothing 482 00:30:44,071 --> 00:30:47,071 Speaker 1: about her Irish ancestry because she was raised in an 483 00:30:47,111 --> 00:30:52,551 Speaker 1: institution the Stolen Generation back then when they took over 484 00:30:52,551 --> 00:30:56,791 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand children. They're removing Aboriginal children at a 485 00:30:56,871 --> 00:30:59,751 Speaker 1: rate that's much higher than they was during those times 486 00:31:00,151 --> 00:31:02,751 Speaker 1: when there was a policy in place. I'd just done 487 00:31:02,791 --> 00:31:07,511 Speaker 1: some research around on this that for sixty percent of 488 00:31:07,551 --> 00:31:10,791 Speaker 1: the Abriiginal children in our home care in New South Wales, 489 00:31:11,751 --> 00:31:15,831 Speaker 1: I think sixty are Aboriginal children. That's just New South Wales. 490 00:31:16,591 --> 00:31:20,991 Speaker 1: It's much higher than that in Western Australia, at ten 491 00:31:21,351 --> 00:31:25,351 Speaker 1: ten Aboriginal children in our home care compared to one. 492 00:31:25,391 --> 00:31:29,791 Speaker 2: The rate is increasing, so the gap isn't closing, it's widening, 493 00:31:30,231 --> 00:31:34,071 Speaker 2: you know, And we have to call government to account 494 00:31:34,071 --> 00:31:38,191 Speaker 2: for this. But we also have to take some responsibility ourselves. 495 00:31:37,791 --> 00:31:37,991 Speaker 1: You know. 496 00:31:38,151 --> 00:31:40,751 Speaker 2: Of course, we have to be independent and say we're 497 00:31:40,751 --> 00:31:42,031 Speaker 2: not going to put up with this. We're not going 498 00:31:42,071 --> 00:31:44,271 Speaker 2: to do this anymore. We are not going to play 499 00:31:44,311 --> 00:31:47,791 Speaker 2: your game, you know. You know, we're not going to 500 00:31:47,831 --> 00:31:52,831 Speaker 2: go and stay on the doll So that every time 501 00:31:53,111 --> 00:31:55,591 Speaker 2: the government changes their mind, we have to line up 502 00:31:55,591 --> 00:31:59,391 Speaker 2: in a queue like in a concentration camp and sign 503 00:31:59,431 --> 00:32:02,751 Speaker 2: a new four that's a horrible lie. You know, we 504 00:32:02,831 --> 00:32:08,151 Speaker 2: should demand, you know, and refuse to cooperate. You know, 505 00:32:08,191 --> 00:32:12,911 Speaker 2: because our old people were never unemployed. Our old people 506 00:32:12,951 --> 00:32:17,271 Speaker 2: were never uneducated, you know, because the law insisted that 507 00:32:17,311 --> 00:32:20,911 Speaker 2: everybody got fed, everybody had an education, everybody had a 508 00:32:20,991 --> 00:32:25,391 Speaker 2: house somewhere to live and stayed with their family. Only 509 00:32:25,471 --> 00:32:28,751 Speaker 2: extended family, you know, where people that have several mothers, 510 00:32:28,791 --> 00:32:35,151 Speaker 2: several fathers, you know, a really well organized society different 511 00:32:35,151 --> 00:32:40,231 Speaker 2: to this one, but not worse, certainly not worse. No, no, no, 512 00:32:40,471 --> 00:32:44,871 Speaker 2: And you know we need to go back and admire 513 00:32:44,911 --> 00:32:49,431 Speaker 2: those principles and not accept the definition that is given 514 00:32:49,471 --> 00:32:53,391 Speaker 2: to us by white authorities. You know, they like to 515 00:32:53,431 --> 00:32:56,191 Speaker 2: call us hunters and gatherers. We did hunt, We did gather. 516 00:32:56,791 --> 00:32:59,871 Speaker 2: I still do it all the all the brothers and sisters. 517 00:33:00,311 --> 00:33:04,271 Speaker 2: We still go down, get bimbla prawn. You know, we're 518 00:33:04,271 --> 00:33:08,591 Speaker 2: still hunting in gathering. But we also grew. And the 519 00:33:08,671 --> 00:33:10,751 Speaker 2: reason they don't want to talk about what we grew 520 00:33:11,351 --> 00:33:15,311 Speaker 2: because that says that we were managing the land and 521 00:33:15,391 --> 00:33:20,431 Speaker 2: growing food, and that means that the colony is illegal. 522 00:33:20,591 --> 00:33:21,631 Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about that. 523 00:33:21,751 --> 00:33:26,311 Speaker 1: Well, that anthropological definition, uncle, you know, that hunter gatherer 524 00:33:26,551 --> 00:33:29,991 Speaker 1: struggling to survive in a halsh cruel world. You know, 525 00:33:30,111 --> 00:33:35,671 Speaker 1: primitive hunter gatherer society has been the anthropological definition for 526 00:33:35,711 --> 00:33:38,271 Speaker 1: how long? And that's up to us now as absent 527 00:33:38,351 --> 00:33:41,071 Speaker 1: people like yourself and the books that you're publishing and 528 00:33:41,071 --> 00:33:43,111 Speaker 1: the work that you're doing, that we need to take 529 00:33:43,151 --> 00:33:45,671 Speaker 1: back that power of definition, start defining who we are, 530 00:33:45,671 --> 00:33:47,311 Speaker 1: where we come from, and what we're all about. 531 00:33:47,631 --> 00:33:50,431 Speaker 2: We need to define ourselves and use our own words. 532 00:33:50,911 --> 00:33:53,391 Speaker 2: Who define ourselves too deadly? 533 00:33:53,631 --> 00:33:54,271 Speaker 1: Nowhere is it all? 534 00:33:54,311 --> 00:33:54,511 Speaker 2: Look? 535 00:33:54,751 --> 00:33:56,431 Speaker 1: I know that you don't have much time to go, 536 00:33:56,591 --> 00:33:58,711 Speaker 1: but all I want to say really quickly is that 537 00:33:59,391 --> 00:34:02,511 Speaker 1: maybe truth telling might be at the heart of all 538 00:34:02,551 --> 00:34:04,911 Speaker 1: of this. If we can come together and acknowledge the 539 00:34:04,911 --> 00:34:08,391 Speaker 1: true history of this country, maybe we can reset that 540 00:34:08,471 --> 00:34:11,591 Speaker 1: relationship and start from scratch again. 541 00:34:12,591 --> 00:34:16,271 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, it was very positive in 542 00:34:16,311 --> 00:34:19,471 Speaker 2: South Africa. There's still a lot of problems there. But 543 00:34:19,511 --> 00:34:23,271 Speaker 2: you don't solve a two hundred yew problem in teen years. 544 00:34:23,671 --> 00:34:26,151 Speaker 2: You solve a two hundred new problem in two hundred years. 545 00:34:26,711 --> 00:34:28,831 Speaker 2: And you know that's how long we've got to wait. 546 00:34:28,911 --> 00:34:32,591 Speaker 2: So it's not not me, not my daughter, not my grandkids, 547 00:34:32,591 --> 00:34:35,391 Speaker 2: all their kids. It's great, great great grannies are going 548 00:34:35,471 --> 00:34:41,951 Speaker 2: to have to keep working, keep insisting on our on 549 00:34:42,031 --> 00:34:45,311 Speaker 2: our independence and our identity and our law too deadly. 550 00:34:45,511 --> 00:34:49,351 Speaker 1: And it's a good way to say thank you. And 551 00:34:49,551 --> 00:34:50,951 Speaker 1: I know that you've got to run, but I just 552 00:34:50,991 --> 00:34:53,831 Speaker 1: want to say really quickly that it's been an absolute 553 00:34:54,231 --> 00:34:56,271 Speaker 1: pleasure to just have a little bit of time to 554 00:34:56,751 --> 00:35:00,351 Speaker 1: share the work that you're doing. And you know, keep 555 00:35:00,351 --> 00:35:01,791 Speaker 1: going with all the work that you do. And I 556 00:35:01,831 --> 00:35:05,471 Speaker 1: can't wait to see dark Emu the documentary. Good thank 557 00:35:05,511 --> 00:35:09,631 Speaker 1: you Uncle, Appreciating, No Worries, Happy n eight OK week 558 00:35:09,631 --> 00:35:14,271 Speaker 1: for yarn soon And that was the Deadly. Bruce Pascoe 559 00:35:14,871 --> 00:35:17,551 Speaker 1: In a member of the wather Wrong Aboriginal Cooperative of 560 00:35:17,591 --> 00:35:22,671 Speaker 1: Southern Australia. An award winning Australian writer, editor and anthologist. 561 00:35:23,431 --> 00:35:27,191 Speaker 1: His works have been published nationally and internationally and has 562 00:35:27,271 --> 00:35:32,191 Speaker 1: won several national literary competitions. He has combined writing fiction 563 00:35:32,311 --> 00:35:36,271 Speaker 1: and nonfiction with a career as a successful publisher and 564 00:35:36,311 --> 00:35:39,551 Speaker 1: has been the director of the Australian Studies Project for 565 00:35:39,591 --> 00:35:45,511 Speaker 1: the Commonwealth Schools Commission. He's also worked as a teacher, farmer, fisherman, barman, farm, 566 00:35:45,551 --> 00:35:51,431 Speaker 1: fence contractor, lecturer, Aboriginal language researcher, archaeological site worker and editor, 567 00:35:51,951 --> 00:35:56,271 Speaker 1: and also appeared in the SBSTV program First Australians. That's 568 00:35:56,311 --> 00:35:58,871 Speaker 1: a documentary that I think everyone should be watching if 569 00:35:58,871 --> 00:36:01,791 Speaker 1: you haven't already, First Australians and a shout out there 570 00:36:01,791 --> 00:36:04,511 Speaker 1: to SBS for the deadly world that you fellows are 571 00:36:04,551 --> 00:36:09,311 Speaker 1: doing as well. His book exploring the History of Aboriginal Agriculture, 572 00:36:09,671 --> 00:36:15,471 Speaker 1: Dark Emu, Black Seeds Agriculture or Accident, has attracted considerable 573 00:36:15,471 --> 00:36:20,151 Speaker 1: attention for its discussion of land management practices in Australia 574 00:36:20,191 --> 00:36:23,471 Speaker 1: prior to colonization, which we yarned about. You know, the 575 00:36:23,551 --> 00:36:26,751 Speaker 1: work that he's been doing in the agriculture space, in 576 00:36:26,871 --> 00:36:31,151 Speaker 1: farming and revitalizing some of our traditional food sources. You 577 00:36:31,191 --> 00:36:35,711 Speaker 1: know that we're nourishing like superfoods and the right plants 578 00:36:35,751 --> 00:36:39,711 Speaker 1: to be farming in the right country. So important to 579 00:36:39,831 --> 00:36:42,831 Speaker 1: understand the knowledge that our old people have passed down 580 00:36:42,911 --> 00:36:46,471 Speaker 1: over tens of thousands of years, so much to yarn about, 581 00:36:46,591 --> 00:36:49,631 Speaker 1: so much that this deadly fellow's doing. Not enough time 582 00:36:49,671 --> 00:36:51,791 Speaker 1: in the day to get him here and to keep 583 00:36:51,831 --> 00:36:54,511 Speaker 1: talking about all of the other things that he's doing 584 00:36:54,551 --> 00:36:56,911 Speaker 1: and writing. But I just want to say really quickly, 585 00:36:56,911 --> 00:37:00,151 Speaker 1: if you haven't read dark Emu, go on buy yourself 586 00:37:00,151 --> 00:37:02,991 Speaker 1: a copy, get online download it, Listen to the audiobook 587 00:37:03,671 --> 00:37:06,791 Speaker 1: Young dark em You for young people, dark em You 588 00:37:06,871 --> 00:37:11,511 Speaker 1: in the classroom for teachers, and then hopefully in twenty 589 00:37:11,551 --> 00:37:13,391 Speaker 1: twenty one we'll be able to see on the big 590 00:37:13,431 --> 00:37:17,831 Speaker 1: screen dark EMU the documentary. On that note, I hope 591 00:37:17,871 --> 00:37:21,591 Speaker 1: you've enjoyed this yarn with the deadly Uncle Bruce Pasco, 592 00:37:22,551 --> 00:37:24,911 Speaker 1: someone that I speak about every single day when I 593 00:37:24,951 --> 00:37:28,591 Speaker 1: deliver cultural education training and when I think about it, 594 00:37:29,231 --> 00:37:32,031 Speaker 1: we're trying to share with people who live in this 595 00:37:32,151 --> 00:37:35,671 Speaker 1: country and call this place home. We're trying to share 596 00:37:35,711 --> 00:37:39,831 Speaker 1: with you how we lived here, what we did, how 597 00:37:39,871 --> 00:37:42,871 Speaker 1: we did things, and how you can learn from us. 598 00:37:43,591 --> 00:37:47,391 Speaker 1: Dark em You unpack some of those early journals about 599 00:37:47,391 --> 00:37:50,871 Speaker 1: what those first explorers come across when they've seen us. 600 00:37:51,391 --> 00:37:54,751 Speaker 1: Those journals have been in the archives for a very 601 00:37:54,791 --> 00:37:58,631 Speaker 1: long time, and it's just interesting that it took someone 602 00:37:58,711 --> 00:38:01,711 Speaker 1: like Uncle Bruce Pasco to go and dig for these 603 00:38:01,791 --> 00:38:05,671 Speaker 1: journals to actually find some of the these early recordings 604 00:38:05,671 --> 00:38:09,631 Speaker 1: and evidence of how Aboriginal people weren't just wandering around 605 00:38:09,671 --> 00:38:15,431 Speaker 1: the land. We weren't primitive, uncivilized savages, you know, just 606 00:38:15,631 --> 00:38:18,711 Speaker 1: hunters and gatherers. And like I said, that adds apological 607 00:38:18,791 --> 00:38:23,271 Speaker 1: definition that's been in place since time, you know, then 608 00:38:23,351 --> 00:38:26,511 Speaker 1: first white Fellows came on the first fleet. We need 609 00:38:26,551 --> 00:38:29,231 Speaker 1: to take back that power of definition, and we need 610 00:38:29,271 --> 00:38:31,871 Speaker 1: to define who we are and where we come from 611 00:38:31,951 --> 00:38:34,431 Speaker 1: and what our culture is about. And I love the 612 00:38:34,471 --> 00:38:38,031 Speaker 1: fact that dark Emium is just one of those resources 613 00:38:38,431 --> 00:38:42,791 Speaker 1: that hopefully not just change your perspective, that you might 614 00:38:42,911 --> 00:38:48,791 Speaker 1: have a bit more appreciation for the beautiful country that 615 00:38:48,911 --> 00:38:52,111 Speaker 1: you now call home. So on that note, until next time, 616 00:38:52,311 --> 00:38:55,671 Speaker 1: take care of you. If you'd like any more on 617 00:38:55,751 --> 00:38:59,591 Speaker 1: today's guest, please visit our show notes in the episode description. 618 00:39:01,551 --> 00:39:03,911 Speaker 1: A big shout out to all you Deadly Mind and 619 00:39:04,031 --> 00:39:07,711 Speaker 1: allies who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast. 620 00:39:07,951 --> 00:39:11,271 Speaker 1: Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review 621 00:39:11,311 --> 00:39:14,351 Speaker 1: the podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to 622 00:39:14,391 --> 00:39:17,271 Speaker 1: our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line. 623 00:39:17,391 --> 00:39:20,231 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman 624 00:39:20,351 --> 00:39:22,791 Speaker 1: podcast is produced by Clint Curtis.