Speaker 1: A good I just wanted to point out quite quickly
Speaker 1: that this episode was recorded in isolation, not in our
Speaker 1: regular studio, and also that we are discussing the movie
Speaker 1: Raging Bull. It's a classic film, but it's also quite
Speaker 1: confronting and does feature some salted language and the scenes
Speaker 1: about domestic violence. So we will be covering and chatting
Speaker 1: about domestic violence in some areas of this episode. So
Speaker 1: if you're sensitive to that, perhaps let's get to the
Speaker 1: next episode.
Speaker 2: If not, enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Peter Hallier and welcome to you Ain't Seen
Speaker 1: Nothing Yet the podcast that talks the movie lovers about
Speaker 1: classic and beloved movies they haven't.
Speaker 2: Quite got around to watching until now. And today's guest
Speaker 2: m Russiano.
Speaker 3: I will have my vengers in this life for the next.
Speaker 2: They may take off.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: Life is like a box of Chocolate's.
Speaker 5: Right nothing.
Speaker 1: Emma Masciano first burst onto our screens in Australian Idol
Speaker 1: finishing ninth quite a few years ago and since has
Speaker 1: gone on to huge things. Em is a self made
Speaker 1: comedy phenomenon. She's a comedian, singer, writer, radio presenter and podcaster.
Speaker 2: She speaks her mind.
Speaker 1: She's completely honest about everything she experiences, all the ups
Speaker 1: and the downs. She's always fascinating the catch with she's fierce,
Speaker 1: she's funny, and she's.
Speaker 2: Fabulous, and it's a joy to have her chatting on.
Speaker 2: You ain't seen nothing yet today.
Speaker 4: Hi, this is m Rossiano and three of my favorite films,
Speaker 4: Muriel's Wedding, You bring us down, Muriel, You're embarrass us,
Speaker 4: the never ending Story.
Speaker 3: Never give Up and good luck will find you.
Speaker 6: And the Royal Tenant Boums.
Speaker 3: I love you more than anything.
Speaker 4: And I have never seen surprisingly enough being a raging
Speaker 4: Italian raging bull.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of bad things showing, maybe just coming
Speaker 3: back to me.
Speaker 1: It's rated amongst critics is the best film of the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties.
Speaker 2: One of the greatest films of all time.
Speaker 1: Raging Bull is Martin Scorsese's Powder Keg of a masterpiece, starring,
Speaker 1: of course.
Speaker 2: Robert de Niro. M Rossiano, welcome to you see nothing yet.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me. I minded to be here.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited. I feel like I was at the
Speaker 4: birth and the inception of you thinking about doing this,
Speaker 4: and I bullied you and other Feelm'm so glad you've
Speaker 4: done a podcast.
Speaker 6: It was mad you didn't have one.
Speaker 1: It has been something this one has been kind of
Speaker 1: bubbling away for a few years, but this I got
Speaker 1: serious about it, like this year, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: and I started telling people about I think that's the
Speaker 1: That's the key when you start mentioning it to people,
Speaker 1: sounding it out, giving the sounding balls on it you
Speaker 1: and you were very supportive.
Speaker 2: You love the idea, and now we are here and
Speaker 2: you have chosen.
Speaker 1: I was so excited at first you, I think chose
Speaker 1: Good Fellows And I'm not sure it was the running
Speaker 1: time that kind of swayed you over the Raging Bull
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 2: But two incredible films, yes.
Speaker 7: And.
Speaker 1: We'll get to Raging Bull soon. So I want to
Speaker 1: discuss your three favorite films. But just a quick tease.
Speaker 2: What were you? What were you? How are you feeling
Speaker 2: about Raging Book?
Speaker 6: I felt initially watching it.
Speaker 4: It was It's very Italian and so a lot of
Speaker 4: it was quite comforting to me, and I felt a
Speaker 4: lot of nostalgia watching the scenes around the table and
Speaker 4: the yelling.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: At one point, Joe Peshi's character says to his son,
Speaker 4: I'll stab your hand in the not with a knife
Speaker 4: if you don't stop touching your plate.
Speaker 6: And for me, that's a normal thing. And then I
Speaker 6: kind of left the film.
Speaker 4: Look, it's pretty grim, and I didn't really understand it
Speaker 4: was good, But I'm like, why is it considered his
Speaker 4: magnum opus. Why does everyone say this was Scot Sasey's
Speaker 4: turning point. So I went and researched the behind the
Speaker 4: scenes stuff, the story, and I have such respect for
Speaker 4: the film and its process, and the film makes better
Speaker 4: sense to me now I know what they were trying
Speaker 4: to achieved. They weren't trying to make a boxing movie.
Speaker 4: Boxing was a part of the movie because I'm a
Speaker 4: massive Rocky fan, so I was kind of comparing it
Speaker 4: to that, buddy, But it's not a boxing movie at all.
Speaker 4: It's it's kind of this portrait of this really tortured man.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I now I have a very complicated relationship
Speaker 4: with reging Ball, But now I love it.
Speaker 6: I respect it and understand why it won so many awards.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so we'll get back to a bit.
Speaker 1: One of the points I was going to make, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you were going to make I was really
Speaker 1: sure you were going to make it anyway, But This
Speaker 1: is considered the greatest boxing movie of all time, but
Speaker 1: that is under selling and under what this movie is
Speaker 1: actually about. I think you wrap it up really well there,
Speaker 1: and we'll get back to all that stuff, because it's
Speaker 1: really it's so much meat to this film, both stylistically
Speaker 1: and the themes and the performances and the sound design.
Speaker 1: There's so much to get into. But let's talk about
Speaker 1: your three favorite films. First, Mirror's Wedding. Good to have
Speaker 1: an Aussie classic in there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that film was life changing for me because I
Speaker 4: identified with Rhonda the best Friend character so much, and
Speaker 4: I just felt like, yeah, Rachel giveth, so someone like
Speaker 4: Rhonda could succeed onalian in life, then someone.
Speaker 6: Like me could.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I just I just really identified with
Speaker 4: her character and who she was and what she stood
Speaker 4: for and how passionate she was and how she went
Speaker 4: and everything, you know, even in a wheelchair with leather
Speaker 4: pants and gusto and I don't know, I just and
Speaker 4: the film was so camp and so quintessentially Australian and
Speaker 4: all the things I love.
Speaker 6: So I don't know, I fell in love with at the.
Speaker 4: Instant I saw it, and then I saw the musical
Speaker 4: adaptation the cap Miller Hikey Right, and it just made
Speaker 4: me love the film even more.
Speaker 6: And it's one of those films that stands up.
Speaker 4: I've showed it to my kids, terrified that you know
Speaker 4: it would, but it's really there's no weird, awkward sexist
Speaker 4: spits or you know, accidentally racist bits, you know some
Speaker 4: of them, some of the films like like Ghostbusters. My
Speaker 4: kids watching My Cello. My eldest daughter was like, that's
Speaker 4: just really sexist that whole film, Like, yeah, I know,
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry I forgot about that, but yeah, I
Speaker 4: know it's it's a great film, and it's just so
Speaker 4: quotable and I should.
Speaker 6: Love everything abbas involved.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 6: It's just such a great film.
Speaker 2: It is. It is, I think.
Speaker 1: And we had Steve carry on just guesting when Sampang
Speaker 1: had watched A Castle and he kind of made mention
Speaker 1: that the holy trinity of Australian comedy surely is Crocodile, Dundee,
Speaker 1: the Castle and a mirror's wedding open. You know that
Speaker 1: that I think that that seems to be the holy trinity.
Speaker 1: But it's so good and I remember watching and I
Speaker 1: had the same reaction to Ronda. I thought, Rhonda, and
Speaker 1: this is when I first watched her, when it first
Speaker 1: came out, I hadn't seen particularly a female character have
Speaker 1: like that zero fuck kind of philosophy, yes, which worked
Speaker 1: so well against Muriel, who was all about, you know,
Speaker 1: caring about what I just thought about her, you know.
Speaker 2: So it was such a great pairing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was, And a lot of my friendship looked
Speaker 4: like that as well. I often am attracted to people
Speaker 4: who are well balanced, oftentimes religious too, and you know,
Speaker 4: or are very careful about how they go about life
Speaker 4: because I'm so reckless. So and I think they're attracted
Speaker 4: to me for the same reason. So that friendship really
Speaker 4: resonated with me because I have a couple of friendships
Speaker 4: that could be just also like if you've seen Beaches,
Speaker 4: which is also one of my old time favorite movies
Speaker 4: that c. C. Bloom and Hillary friendship I have as well,
Speaker 4: which is kind of similar to the Rhonda Murial one,
Speaker 4: but in reverse.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: And the fact that the female friendship was at the
Speaker 4: forefront and it wasn't a love story in the end,
Speaker 4: it was it was It was a great love story
Speaker 4: between two women and I think those love stories need
Speaker 4: to be shown more. And I think it was really
Speaker 4: before it's time doing that. That the happy ending wasn't
Speaker 4: the fact that she was married with kids living in
Speaker 4: a nice house. The happy ending was that she had
Speaker 4: this great friendship renewed. And I think I was really
Speaker 4: attracted to that.
Speaker 2: Also, Yeah, it was. It was so good and Bill
Speaker 2: Hunter is so funny.
Speaker 4: Stand up CHARMI shirt Bill herslot you can't stop progress.
Speaker 1: The recurring Dedrich Chambers and when he when he when
Speaker 1: his wife dies and at the funeral and then he
Speaker 1: leans over and sprooks and he got a telegram from
Speaker 1: Bob Hawk, the Prime Minister, you know, like is just
Speaker 1: there's kind of heartbreaking. And the performance by the mum
Speaker 1: is so good, like when she's just staring at the
Speaker 1: microwave and the tea bag is in the microwave and
Speaker 1: and she and and in the back of her feet,
Speaker 1: in the in the in the in the supermarket with
Speaker 1: the source at the back of her feet.
Speaker 2: It's true, it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 6: It really is.
Speaker 4: It's just one of those moments where a comedy I mean,
Speaker 4: and it is essentially a comedy film, I guess, But
Speaker 4: when comedy allows itself to have some tragedy and true heartbreak,
Speaker 4: it's even more poignant. And I was so unprepared for
Speaker 4: how that that made me feel. And that character, for
Speaker 4: me is the one that makes me feel the most
Speaker 4: and so memorable, even though she's not really in the
Speaker 4: main ensemble. I mean she is, but not like Muriel
Speaker 4: and Rhonda. But I just think that that moment of sadness,
Speaker 4: and we've all been there, and I think all of
Speaker 4: us identify was just that bottoming out loneliness, and she just.
Speaker 6: Did that so beautifully but so quietly.
Speaker 4: It's one of the saddest films, one of the saddest
Speaker 4: scenes in any film I've ever seen.
Speaker 6: It's the one that I've been like, oh my God,
Speaker 6: my stomach hurts.
Speaker 1: It was just beautiful, and they had this melancholy as
Speaker 1: a backdrop. Is just you know, it's one of the
Speaker 1: perfect combinations I think of melancholy and joy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think we can't have one without the other.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I think comedy films kind of missed that idea
Speaker 4: if they don't think they can have those rollercoaster moments.
Speaker 6: But I think it makes it funny even more funny.
Speaker 4: I'm always drawn to films where comedians are sad at
Speaker 4: some point in the film.
Speaker 6: So yeah, it's just such a great film. My dogs
Speaker 6: are Buckingham. Sorry, it's real life.
Speaker 2: It's real life.
Speaker 1: It's part of the I could watch Dan Wiley avoiding
Speaker 1: knowing the lawns by kicking a fear around in the backyard,
Speaker 1: you know, every day of the week.
Speaker 2: It's so great and never read story.
Speaker 4: Oh look, I was the kid that is to get
Speaker 4: chased around at primary school for being weird. So when
Speaker 4: I first saw bastianrunning down the street with his you know,
Speaker 4: with his magical book, trying to hide because I was
Speaker 4: the smelly ethnic kid and I wasn't smelly. I just
Speaker 4: had like pastrami in my lunch box. But I used
Speaker 4: to get called stinky box Pete and that's not ideal
Speaker 4: for a girl, you know, in grade five because my
Speaker 4: my lunch box didn't have twisties and primas and vegmite sangers,
Speaker 4: which is all over warned. I had like a tasting plate,
Speaker 4: like an any pasta flatter in my lunchbox. Timings to
Speaker 4: be so ashamed of it because you could smell my bag.
Speaker 4: It smelt like the vic market all the way down
Speaker 4: the hall.
Speaker 1: And so this is this is back in the day,
Speaker 1: and this is a shameful, but this is you know
Speaker 1: where I'm trying to place this moment. I know, when
Speaker 1: I went to school, you know, Psycher was still being
Speaker 1: referred to as wog.
Speaker 4: Bad percent I was, Yeah, I was got called everything, smelly,
Speaker 4: wog daygo, I got called everything. And and I'm I
Speaker 4: don't I don't think I look particularly Italian.
Speaker 6: I mean if you hear my name.
Speaker 4: But in the eighties and the late eighties and nineties
Speaker 4: in where I was out in Diamond, if you didn't
Speaker 4: have an Anglo name and look exactly Anglo, then you
Speaker 4: were another.
Speaker 6: And so yeah, it was pretty hectic.
Speaker 4: So I was always drawn to films like Annie and
Speaker 4: never any story you know where the main protagonist is someone.
Speaker 6: Who was picked on and triumphs.
Speaker 4: So and I think a lot of my personality and
Speaker 4: resilience comes from, you know, deciding to side with the
Speaker 4: ethnic because my mum's Ossie. She was born in Bergen
Speaker 4: in country New South Wales, actually born in Bendigo, move
Speaker 4: to Bergen, and I decided very early on to side
Speaker 4: with the ethnic part of me because I felt so
Speaker 4: fiercely protective of it, so you know, those bullies at Dime,
Speaker 4: I did me a favor. But yeah, I'm never Ending
Speaker 4: stories just so magic and the way that he just
Speaker 4: creates and I did that. I created worlds to escape
Speaker 4: and foul call the Luck Dragon and a trayl was
Speaker 4: so hot.
Speaker 6: I pictures with him up on my wall.
Speaker 4: I cut out from my smash Hits magazine and attacks
Speaker 4: the beautiful White Stallion, Like, I just love that movie
Speaker 4: so much and it still holds up to Never Ending
Speaker 4: two was rubbish, but I still watched it, you know,
Speaker 4: I still got on.
Speaker 6: But as impossible.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's It's a film that could do
Speaker 2: with you say, it stands up.
Speaker 1: But I'm surprised maybe it hasn't been redone because because
Speaker 1: of what we can do with the technology and the act,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, Peter Jackson would have a field day.
Speaker 6: That's such a good idea. I can't.
Speaker 4: You're right, But I mean they haven't remade The Labyrinth either,
Speaker 4: which is another one that I loved. They did remake
Speaker 4: The Dark Crystal, which was beautifully done on Netflix as
Speaker 4: a series, and I absolutely loved that. But yeah, you're right,
Speaker 4: they should remake Never Ending story. I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: I say that with trepidation, but I'm sure they do
Speaker 4: a good job.
Speaker 2: I know, be careful what you be?
Speaker 5: Careful what you wish for your third favorite film? Or
Speaker 5: oh yes, yes, I'm I'm a Where's say Alabash?
Speaker 2: Where's lover?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Me too.
Speaker 4: That film just made me realize my family's normal, because
Speaker 4: we're like where we often get called the royal.
Speaker 6: Tannem My family.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I just loved how I love I'm
Speaker 4: obviously visually stunning. You know that classic aqua and orange,
Speaker 4: you know filter that goes across all his films and
Speaker 4: beautifully styled, and it could be a magazine cheot at
Speaker 4: any time. And just how open and dysfunctional yet close
Speaker 4: to the family were I don't know. I again, I
Speaker 4: was drawn to them as a family because it reminded
Speaker 4: me of mine.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I just anything he makes.
Speaker 4: I think he's really brave and I think he celebrates different,
Speaker 4: weird He's not afraid to kind of break the mold
Speaker 4: of what traditional.
Speaker 6: Filmmaking should be.
Speaker 4: And I think I think we're really lucky to have
Speaker 4: someone like him making films.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I just one of those.
Speaker 1: He's one of those filmmakers that you know, I don't
Speaker 1: need to know much about what the film is about
Speaker 1: before I see.
Speaker 2: I just I know that I'm going to see.
Speaker 1: And he's got one that he's made already, which is
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where that is as far as release
Speaker 1: dates now because of but it's a set in Europe
Speaker 1: again and it's it looks amazing and got almost double
Speaker 1: the cast that he usually has somehow.
Speaker 2: Which is amazing, and his films get better.
Speaker 1: I think, like I, I'm usually so excited about the
Speaker 1: new Wes Anderson film that I see it, my usual
Speaker 1: first instinct is I'm a little bit underwhelmed, and then
Speaker 1: I watch it, I go back to him again and
Speaker 1: I like it more. And then I keep watching it
Speaker 1: and I like it more, to the point where I
Speaker 1: watched Moon Rise Kingdom recently with with Oscar, my eleven
Speaker 1: year old, and I was like, this on, this one's
Speaker 1: one of its good It's a good film with his
Speaker 1: It's not maybe his best film, but it's you know,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 2: Just loved it. I was just like, what did I
Speaker 2: what did I miss out on? Last time?
Speaker 1: Grant Budapesz had the same thing. But I thought one
Speaker 1: of my favorite films with his now and I and
Speaker 1: I love it more and more. The Life Aquatic is
Speaker 1: the same, like the Life of Quatic maybe my favorite film.
Speaker 4: Like I know, but the he makes films that you
Speaker 4: have to watch more than once because there's so many
Speaker 4: little easter eggs in there to unpack, and you miss it.
Speaker 4: You do because you just trying to keep up and
Speaker 4: you can't take everything in. So once you've got the
Speaker 4: storyline clocked, you can go back and look for all
Speaker 4: the stylistic choices he made.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I did the same thing. I just love it.
Speaker 6: I love him.
Speaker 1: Yes, my favorite, my favorite, I think moment in the
Speaker 1: Royal Town of Bombs is Mick Wilson's meltdown on the
Speaker 1: tennis was a Wimbledon on the French Open us Obanel
Speaker 1: I'll forget d I.
Speaker 6: Think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Mister Gandhi leads forty to fifteen.
Speaker 3: That's seventy two unforced errors for Richie tennant bound. He's
Speaker 3: playing the worst tennis of his life. What's he feeling
Speaker 3: right now? Text Hallward. I don't know, Jim.
Speaker 2: There's obviously something wrong with him. It's taken off his
Speaker 2: shoes and one.
Speaker 1: Of his socks and actually I think he's crying.
Speaker 3: I think you're right. Who's he looking at in the
Speaker 3: friends box text?
Speaker 2: That's his sister Margot and her new husband Raley Sinclair.
Speaker 3: They were just married yesterday. Jim. Oh, yeah, I've not
Speaker 3: seen anything like this. Neither am I strange day out
Speaker 3: here in wind Swept Fields.
Speaker 2: Well great Watcheth.
Speaker 4: Wewenneth doesn't get enough credit. I just think brilliant in
Speaker 4: that film.
Speaker 6: I like Gwen. She's redeemed in my mind. Have you
Speaker 6: you haven't watched have you watched a Politician yet? On Netflix?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: With Bette Midler and Judith light And and Gwnneth Poultry.
Speaker 6: It's amazing.
Speaker 4: But she's in that she's so good, but I think
Speaker 4: she's I think I'm probably essentially playing herself in the
Speaker 4: role ten of Moums, but still very good.
Speaker 1: And Gina Jeene Hackman is so good. And apparently it
Speaker 1: was was him and Wes did not have a great
Speaker 1: working relationship, it seems, but it got the result.
Speaker 4: And yeah, all right, so you've got a baseline of
Speaker 4: my taste. Weird, fantasy, dysfunction, colorful, so great, Let's watch
Speaker 4: Raging Ball.
Speaker 2: You mentioned religion before, so are you ittained Catholic.
Speaker 6: Well, nonpracticing. Yes.
Speaker 4: My grandparents my no, no, no, was certainly very Catholic,
Speaker 4: had a magnet of Jesus on the dashboard of their Mazda.
Speaker 4: So Luigi, my grandfather, came to the country, brought a
Speaker 4: Mazda in nineteen whatever fifty something and kept it till like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, two thousand. It was this bench seated
Speaker 4: original Mazda. It was like, had Jesus ornaments on it
Speaker 4: and a wooly sea cover.
Speaker 6: I always remember that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they were super religious and my dad was
Speaker 4: not because my dad like sold marijuana and played in
Speaker 4: a band and really adopted to Australian culture, married a Nausi,
Speaker 4: which didn't go down well. But this film really reminded
Speaker 4: me of family dinners at their house. And the reason
Speaker 4: I love this film initially because straight away it starts
Speaker 4: and you're in the middle of it, and that's so
Speaker 4: fucking I tell you, we're not explaining anything catch up.
Speaker 6: That was for me.
Speaker 4: It starts, there's no backstory, you just bang your And
Speaker 4: I said to my husband, that is so Italian. That
Speaker 4: is just sorry. We're not we're not mucking around explaining ourselves.
Speaker 4: You just get on board or get off the train,
Speaker 4: which was great, But.
Speaker 1: I love that in filmmaking. I think you need to
Speaker 1: be ahead of your audience all the time. And sometimes
Speaker 1: when you're developing an idea, whether it be a TV
Speaker 1: idea or a film idea, you'll have people in your
Speaker 1: ear about, oh, you need to you need to can't
Speaker 1: confuse the audience. But I like being a little bit
Speaker 1: confused when I'm watching a movie. I like kind of
Speaker 1: playing you know, it's basically a mystique. It's it's suspense,
Speaker 1: it's what's happening. I don't quite understand what's happening now.
Speaker 1: Now a good filmmaker, you'll get to the end and
Speaker 1: everything should make it makes sense. And if that doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: what You've just spent some time watching a bad film.
Speaker 1: But you don't need to understand everything in every scene
Speaker 1: at the time it happens.
Speaker 6: No, I didn't for a bit.
Speaker 4: The other funny thing was got My husband and I
Speaker 4: were sitting watching it and he became really uncomfortable and
Speaker 4: he's like, this is making me really like he was
Speaker 4: getting really and I think the explosiveness of the interactions
Speaker 4: was reminding him of our marriage, and because I am
Speaker 4: very I react in the moment without thinking about the consequences,
Speaker 4: and I'm really explosive and I'll yell at everyone and
Speaker 4: then I'm like, okay, guys, what are you having to dinner?
Speaker 6: Like That's how my dad is.
Speaker 4: We just like we go to one hundred and then
Speaker 4: it's out of our system and we're done, while everyone
Speaker 4: else around us is still shell shocked.
Speaker 6: We're ready to move on.
Speaker 4: So the idea of the idea of watching these guys
Speaker 4: just Joe Pesci plays his brother Joe who and this
Speaker 4: was Joe Peshi's first film role, and he's so he's
Speaker 4: probably the only likable character.
Speaker 6: Let's stay from the offset. No one's likable.
Speaker 4: There is no one in this film except I did
Speaker 4: find myself warming to Joe Peshi, the brother who just
Speaker 4: was trying to protect Jake from himself. That was that
Speaker 4: was his main role as his manager literally in business
Speaker 4: but also in life.
Speaker 2: So I would say, I would say, Vicky is likable,
Speaker 2: is she?
Speaker 6: Though? I think so that's his wife just resetting for
Speaker 6: the audience.
Speaker 2: Yes, lovely, lovely, I think Vicky is really likable.
Speaker 1: I think I mean, there's the ickiness of the fact
Speaker 1: that she's fifteen.
Speaker 4: But let's talk about Vicky's entrance into the film, because
Speaker 4: initially at the start, there's another wife who gets in
Speaker 4: trouble for cooking his steak.
Speaker 2: Herol done, gone over cooking, over cook it's not the
Speaker 2: features on purpose.
Speaker 7: What are you doing? I just said, going over cooking.
Speaker 7: You're over cooking, and bring it over. Just take bring
Speaker 7: it over, bring it over. It's like a piece of charcoal.
Speaker 7: Bring it over here.
Speaker 6: Want you stay?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right now?
Speaker 3: Stay?
Speaker 6: Can't wait?
Speaker 4: Done?
Speaker 2: Can't we good?
Speaker 7: Happy?
Speaker 1: Happy?
Speaker 2: That's all I not more.
Speaker 6: By the stage yeah, and then and then she just disappears.
Speaker 6: So this is against Gorsese. Go and keep up. I'm
Speaker 6: not going to explain to you what happened to that one,
Speaker 6: because Scott and I kept sitting there.
Speaker 4: We wasted a ridiculous amount of nervous energy waiting for
Speaker 4: the other wife to walk in on Hero.
Speaker 6: And the blonde. She's going to get home to get
Speaker 6: me crazy.
Speaker 4: She never comes back, and then we're like, okay, sure
Speaker 4: she's just gone now and he's got a new wife.
Speaker 6: That was that was the first.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I think I thought, oh, maybe that wasn't
Speaker 2: his wife.
Speaker 1: That was, you know, his living girlfriend and now he
Speaker 1: found somebody else's No, that was actually his wife.
Speaker 2: Jake Lomonto I think was married. You know, I had
Speaker 2: seven marriages or something.
Speaker 6: I believe that.
Speaker 4: I absolutely believe that Jake Lamoto had seven marriages. And
Speaker 4: Italians don't have living girlfriends. They'll go to help you
Speaker 4: get married. You did not do that in not even
Speaker 4: when it was at nineteen forties when that was set new,
Speaker 4: not at all. But I love you can tell that
Speaker 4: two Italians were behind making this film, and Scorsese and
Speaker 4: Daneer grew up in rival areas of Lower East Side,
Speaker 4: you know, the Italian settlements, so they kind of knew
Speaker 4: each other, but they're in rival gangs, which I love.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I just think the complete drenching of italianness
Speaker 4: on this film is my favorite thing. Like it's almost
Speaker 4: like an education for people to understand why we are
Speaker 4: the way we are.
Speaker 6: Like it's just they're.
Speaker 4: Not educated, but they're smart, but they just everything is
Speaker 4: this raw, primal reaction to everything.
Speaker 6: You know, there's there's.
Speaker 1: I was watching when I was watching it last night,
Speaker 1: and I watched it with all my kids, including my
Speaker 1: helven year old. I mean say go to bed. But
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this film tomorrow. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: gave a very quick you're not treat women like this
Speaker 1: kind of you yes, and talk to me like this
Speaker 1: and the go to bed and this film needs to
Speaker 1: be discussed more tomorrow. Yeah, so we'll be having that
Speaker 1: discussion tonight. But I was watching and you see it
Speaker 1: often the New York movies, the yelling out of windows,
Speaker 1: and I think I've never seen that in Australia.
Speaker 2: I've never seen house.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask has that happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we exclusively communicate by yelling out windows, Like I'll
Speaker 4: drive up my parents. My parents are in this big
Speaker 4: block out in Eltham South and I'll drive up the driving.
Speaker 6: My daddy out the window. I left the garage jap before.
Speaker 6: You just got to go to toilet, Like that's how
Speaker 6: we communicate. My kids will come down the.
Speaker 4: Drive oile, scream out the window, speak quiet you like
Speaker 4: the baby like it's we yell. Our family is known
Speaker 4: as the loudest family in the face of the planet.
Speaker 6: But I didn't go to Italy for the first I
Speaker 6: went to Italy for the first time when I was thirty.
Speaker 4: So for my whole life had been made to feel
Speaker 4: like I was this loud, over the top person that
Speaker 4: needed to just calm the fuck down, and.
Speaker 6: I never understood.
Speaker 4: And then I got to Italy and I got into
Speaker 4: Filamentino Airport and straight away the guys at the passport
Speaker 4: desk saw my name was Emilia Roshano, and they let
Speaker 4: me go to the local line, like they made my mum,
Speaker 4: who's clearly very eysy stand in the arrival in new
Speaker 4: arrivals line, I was. I was showing the red carpet treatment.
Speaker 4: And I got into Rome and into and we went
Speaker 4: to all the little back alley cafes, because if you're
Speaker 4: in Rome, you're not Italian, you're Roman.
Speaker 6: They're very much considered themselves, you know, a different breed.
Speaker 6: And everyone's yelling and hey, hey going.
Speaker 4: I was just like, fuck, I make sense here, this
Speaker 4: is why, this is why I am the way I am.
Speaker 6: That they're just passionate, and then.
Speaker 4: Everyone just means on and there's more yelling, and there's
Speaker 4: lots of nattella and small dogs and sparkly things, and
Speaker 4: so yeah, the yelling is so quintessentially Italian that it
Speaker 4: happens Pete and it's you know it's I finally thirty
Speaker 4: realized I wasn't a bad person.
Speaker 6: I was just Italian.
Speaker 2: And they probably complimented you on the way you smell
Speaker 2: in your.
Speaker 4: Lu You smell rule, Yeah exactly, you're not have stinky box.
Speaker 2: Your mom over there, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: She smell in god?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh no, when you when you sell when Italians, first
Speaker 4: of all, because they see my name, they're excited. Then
Speaker 4: they hear me speak Italian and they're upset because they
Speaker 4: can hear I'm not Italian. And then they check I'm
Speaker 4: not American. And when they find out that you're from Australia, Oh,
Speaker 4: it's like you said, Nannia, oh slaia cagoos give it
Speaker 4: gangaroo yes slalyah. I want to go like it's some
Speaker 4: far off mystical place. But don't ever say you're American
Speaker 4: in Italy. Oh my god, I don't ever ever admit
Speaker 4: to being American. If you're American and going Italy, they
Speaker 4: do not like you, not one bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, play the can of the card.
Speaker 1: So okay, so let's talk at about Let's just talk
Speaker 1: about Jake Lamona. So he mentioned earlier and it certainly
Speaker 1: was you know it was going to be the point
Speaker 1: that I was going to make it's the greatest boxing
Speaker 1: movie ever, but it's about so much more. It's about like,
Speaker 1: if you had somebody in your life who struggled to
Speaker 1: understand what toxic masculinity means, this would be the film
Speaker 1: you showed them, you know, if somebody couldn't get their
Speaker 1: head around what that actually means. I think Raging Paul
Speaker 1: is a great text to show somebody this is what
Speaker 1: it looks like. This is a man who's who's insecure
Speaker 1: about everything about himself.
Speaker 2: He hates himself, you know, he really does.
Speaker 1: That's why that's why he's getting his brother to hit
Speaker 1: him at the start of the movie. You know, that's
Speaker 1: why he's headbating the wall and he's saying, I'm not
Speaker 1: an animal, I'm not that guy. But well, mate, you
Speaker 1: are that guy, to be honest, And you know, he starts,
Speaker 1: you know, he starts the film with Joe Peshk begging
Speaker 1: him to hit him, and he ends the film, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously asking him to give him a hug, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's his I guess that's his journey. But you know,
Speaker 1: and he won't take responsibility for himself. You know that's
Speaker 1: on the waterfront speech at the end. I could have
Speaker 1: been a contender, but is you know, you know he
Speaker 1: should look out for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Charlie.
Speaker 1: You know he's still can't blaming his brother, you know,
Speaker 1: he's still blaming other people.
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, yeah, Now, I think that the thing
Speaker 4: that all the qualities that made him such an amazing
Speaker 4: boxer are the qualities that destroyed his life.
Speaker 6: And it was so interesting the juxtaposition.
Speaker 4: I mean, this was a real man too, This was
Speaker 4: a biography, This is a bio and by all accounts
Speaker 4: and I looked up he was an incredible fighter, but
Speaker 4: he's and all the things in the ring. He's desperation,
Speaker 4: he's one mindedness, his feeling, his ability to come back
Speaker 4: when everyone thought he was down and out was legendary.
Speaker 4: And then all those kind of attributes ruined his life,
Speaker 4: his personal life, his extreme jealousy, and you know the
Speaker 4: way he had to control everything. And I just and
Speaker 4: there's no this film, there's no it's grim, there's no
Speaker 4: happy ending. This is like a down would spiral, and
Speaker 4: there's just one moment where I feel like he had
Speaker 4: a little bit of come up and sent a little
Speaker 4: bit of self reflection when he's in a jail cell
Speaker 4: and he's punching the wall and he's lamenting his life
Speaker 4: and he's crying, and he actually says, why did I
Speaker 4: do it?
Speaker 6: Why did I do this?
Speaker 4: And I think that was that one moment in the
Speaker 4: film where I felt for him, like I didn't feel
Speaker 4: I didn't feel like animosity towards him, because I felt
Speaker 4: quite angry towards him a lot in the film. But
Speaker 4: I also also made me fairly uncomfortable because I did
Speaker 4: see parts of myself in that self sabotaging in the massa.
Speaker 4: He's such a massacres too, Like it's yeah, he's a
Speaker 4: really complex character. And I didn't really understand that till
Speaker 4: right at the very end where he meets up with
Speaker 4: his brother Joe and he's just so overweight and so
Speaker 4: down and out, and he just says, you know, please
Speaker 4: hug me, please hug and yeah, that's when I realized, God,
Speaker 4: he's really just trying to live his life for a
Speaker 4: fucking guy.
Speaker 1: And there is that moment earlier where there's almost a
Speaker 1: look where you think the door might be a draft
Speaker 1: for maybe some change, when he when he says he
Speaker 1: loses the fight that of course he thinks he should
Speaker 1: have won, and he says, you know, maybe this I've
Speaker 1: done some bad things.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it's all coming back on me.
Speaker 1: So he's he's, it's he's he's talking obviously about karma
Speaker 1: and that maybe you think, well, maybe he can turn
Speaker 1: it around now, maybe that's that's like bold moment.
Speaker 2: It's not at all at all.
Speaker 6: It's not.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, as soon as I saw the
Speaker 4: leopard print boxing dressing gown, I was fucking in you
Speaker 4: know that, Yes, lepond Bread.
Speaker 2: There are some and it's a beautiful looking film.
Speaker 1: I mean that the the the DeNiro and Peski walking
Speaker 1: down that corridor with the I'm not sure if they're
Speaker 1: for Dora's or not, but there, I mean, there's oh,
Speaker 1: the stunning.
Speaker 4: Shot styling of the nineteen fifties Italian immigrant gent and
Speaker 4: my grandfather wore the exact same clothes, the high waisted
Speaker 4: front fleet Chino with the belt, the white spencer tucked in,
Speaker 4: with the shirt done up beautifully always and then the
Speaker 4: jacket with that, and then the hat was the last
Speaker 4: thing to go before none would leave the house. And
Speaker 4: it's just it's just that those details are just so
Speaker 4: lovingly done. You can just tell that both of them.
Speaker 4: It was like a bit of a love letter to
Speaker 4: their fathers and their grandfathers, the way that was styled
Speaker 4: and the cars, and.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 4: And the choice to make the film black and white,
Speaker 4: I think was a good one. And I read that
Speaker 4: Scorsas made that decision because they shot some super eight
Speaker 4: footage of DeNiro boxing and someone pointed out, oh the
Speaker 4: gloves back in the fifties when Myron and this is wrong,
Speaker 4: as Scorsase goes, I fuck, it will make it black
Speaker 4: and white.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's that's exactly right, and they The other
Speaker 1: thing that played into it was the fact that Rocky
Speaker 1: came out four years earlier, in nineteen seventy six, and
Speaker 1: it was such a massive Reilm. He wanted to avoid
Speaker 1: comparisons to Rocky, so he thought black and that kind
Speaker 1: of sold him, absolutely sold him on the idea.
Speaker 2: But you're right, it was it was that discussion about
Speaker 2: what the color of the clothing.
Speaker 1: But that opening scene is so good, and again it
Speaker 1: frames Jake la Mota as an animal. He's like, he
Speaker 1: looks like he's in a cage. And then you see
Speaker 1: when later on when he meets Vicky when he's introduced
Speaker 1: at VICKI not the swimming pool, but I think she's
Speaker 1: at school lo and behold and Joe Pesky brings him
Speaker 1: over and there there's like a cyclone fencing between them.
Speaker 1: There is, and it's kind of framed in the way
Speaker 1: that you're not really sure who's in the cage or
Speaker 1: who's offering whose freedom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, and I also I love the choice.
Speaker 4: Like you talk about the boxing scenes, they were so
Speaker 4: intricately edited and cart and scored, and then the scenes
Speaker 4: at home were so simple. I love that idea of
Speaker 4: you know, it's because he hates sport, he hates boxing.
Speaker 6: He didn't.
Speaker 4: He's like, I'm not making a fucking sports movie. Pissed
Speaker 4: off DeNiro. This was de Niro's baby. He's like, I've
Speaker 4: read this book and I'm not having I'm not having
Speaker 4: a go away, go away like I.
Speaker 6: Took de Niro, he really stuck to it. And so
Speaker 6: Scorase is more a fan.
Speaker 4: He's a fan of classics and like and he'd come
Speaker 4: off a really bad New York New York monstrosity with
Speaker 4: DeNiro and Laza Minelli where he tried to fuse his
Speaker 4: loves of kind of classic musical movie nerd stuff and
Speaker 4: then modern day and it just didn't work. So he's like,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to do a boxing movie as my
Speaker 4: follow up.
Speaker 1: But he's still also a marriage collapsed and he nearly
Speaker 1: died in the drug over.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.
Speaker 4: Right, he was visited him in the hospital and Scott
Speaker 4: Sase is like, you're gonna mention that fucking boxing film again.
Speaker 4: It's now on ever Mighty, it's now or never, and
Speaker 4: and I think he just wore him down, like Scase
Speaker 4: has been told by the doctors, you have no blood
Speaker 4: plateleists left. Your brain's about to explode, Like this is
Speaker 4: you guys, stop doing courage.
Speaker 6: You got the asthmatic medication. Everything's gone. And Denier is like,
Speaker 6: I'm going to get this is my chance, this is
Speaker 6: my moment talking about this time morning there a week.
Speaker 6: Oh god, I love that story so much, And.
Speaker 2: So I mean he was ripped off. I think not
Speaker 2: getting the Oscar.
Speaker 1: He lost the Ordinary People by Robert Redford, and I
Speaker 1: love Robert Ord but Ragibull is a fast, superior movie
Speaker 1: to Ordinary People. But Denero won the Best Acting Oscar
Speaker 1: and you mentioned the editing before it was won by
Speaker 1: filmer Shoemaker, great name, who's worked with Scorsese for over
Speaker 1: fifty years. And I did tax Actually I'm not sure
Speaker 1: she did taxt Drive. I think she kind of consulted
Speaker 1: on Taxi Driver. But pretty much since has worked and
Speaker 1: been nominated at eight times.
Speaker 2: She even did the Irishman. Research.
Speaker 6: Oh well, I did actually the Irishman.
Speaker 2: God, yeah, she's actually done every Scorsese film.
Speaker 1: Was not mad for the avatar of the part of
Speaker 1: Amongst Good Fellas, I think so. Yeah, the editing and
Speaker 1: the sound of sign like that, the use of sometimes
Speaker 1: silence and just like this, the sound, particularly in the
Speaker 1: boxing scenes of the sound the crowd noise rising and
Speaker 1: and and then.
Speaker 4: It's like it was like an opera the way they
Speaker 4: did the sound. It was it was truly it was
Speaker 4: almost a musical with no music. The way he put
Speaker 4: it together, it was like an opera. It was incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the use of animal noises as well, like
Speaker 1: sometimes you will hear like an animal growl, and then
Speaker 1: you've got Sugar Ray Robinson there before he knocks him
Speaker 1: out with the neros on the ropes and he looks,
Speaker 1: he looks almost in the Christ like pose. Which is
Speaker 1: very scarczy, and he's just heaving and this time the
Speaker 1: animal groans to the heaving of Sugar Ray Robinson's shoulders.
Speaker 2: It's incredible, is.
Speaker 4: That when he's saying, you never knocked me down, you
Speaker 4: never knocked me down.
Speaker 6: Is that the same with the blood sponge and the
Speaker 6: very last fight.
Speaker 2: I think I think that is, yes, yes, And.
Speaker 4: He just constantly saying, to the beat of Sugar Ay breathing,
Speaker 4: you never knocked me down, You didn't knock me down.
Speaker 4: It's just amazing that even even in defeat the Italian,
Speaker 4: the fucking stubbornness, he's like, yeah, you're one, but I'm
Speaker 4: still standing barely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even earlier in the film that the result
Speaker 1: doesn't go his way, which it should have been knocked
Speaker 1: down three times and he still didn't get the points.
Speaker 1: But his arms are in the air, he's celebrating, he's
Speaker 1: throwing his gloves out into the into the crowd. In
Speaker 1: his mind, he's one. Said, DeNiro was, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: like he was the one. Yeah, he really pushed this
Speaker 1: in a took the script tore Scorzaz in his hospital bed.
Speaker 2: But he I mean, he took four months off the game, weight.
Speaker 1: I think this was the start of de Niro kind
Speaker 1: of the trans famous transformation of you know, he did
Speaker 1: it later on for I think Cape Fear, and he's
Speaker 1: done it, you know, many times. But it took four
Speaker 1: months off the game weight trained for a year with
Speaker 1: the real Jack Lamota.
Speaker 4: Why did took four months off? Traveled Italy and Paris
Speaker 4: to put the weight on. So he put thirty kilos
Speaker 4: on in four months. Thirty kilos that's like Grand Danya on.
Speaker 6: In four months.
Speaker 2: So that is.
Speaker 6: Massive, OK.
Speaker 4: But I love that they had to stop down filming
Speaker 4: and he could have just done it at home.
Speaker 6: Now, I gotta get to Italy. G gotta get it,
Speaker 6: you gotta do it, you getta fucking do it. I
Speaker 6: love that. I love that healthy.
Speaker 4: And then when he got back a week into filming Scouse,
Speaker 4: I did the shot filming down again because De Nero's
Speaker 4: health was so bad. He couldn't breathe because he was
Speaker 4: had put on so much weight, and his voice.
Speaker 6: He couldn't speak.
Speaker 4: Because they had to obviously film it, you know, all
Speaker 4: the thin boxing scenes. That's also the editing, the sliding
Speaker 4: in and out of the weight loss and game. I'm
Speaker 4: always watching where are they at with the filming because
Speaker 4: at the end, to imagine this was the same actor
Speaker 4: in a year, he looks like so old and puffy
Speaker 4: and unwell, And it is incredible what Danio did to
Speaker 4: his body. I mean, was he one of the first
Speaker 4: actors to do that? Was that like the first time
Speaker 4: we saw that kind of mass transformation.
Speaker 1: Possibly, I Brando may have done yeah, father or but
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure. I'm not completely sure about that.
Speaker 1: Brando famously like put shoe polish in his hair in
Speaker 1: the audition and put cotton buds in his mouth to
Speaker 1: kind of give him more of a jowy look. But
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he necessarily gained we I think
Speaker 1: Marlon Brando just naturally ballooned out and maybe then blamed
Speaker 1: it then to the movie, the movie.
Speaker 4: That's What's happened to Me in Isolation. I'm just getting
Speaker 4: ready for a movie.
Speaker 6: That's It's What's happened to me. It's gotta be a
Speaker 6: big movie. We're coming up. Guys got to put on
Speaker 6: roughly eight kilos.
Speaker 1: I was one of the ice expected to Damien Callum
Speaker 1: and when we know the comedian, very very fine writer.
Speaker 2: And he.
Speaker 1: Was talking one day and we came up with an
Speaker 1: idea we're going to do as a short film about
Speaker 1: a guy, a struggling actor who got the role of
Speaker 1: a lifetime but he was cast as this like this
Speaker 1: fat guy and he never saw him tough as fat,
Speaker 1: so he kind of so happy with the game in
Speaker 1: the role, but he's so kind of so slighted by
Speaker 1: the fact that he was viewed. He started like getting
Speaker 1: into shape losing. It's the reverse de Nero.
Speaker 6: You should call it. That reversed in Hero.
Speaker 2: I did love.
Speaker 1: I really love the nero and Peski Joe pes together
Speaker 1: and I know it happens in Good Fellows. You go
Speaker 1: up and see that because there it's I mean, Joe
Speaker 1: is a power keg of a of a of a
Speaker 1: He's so volatile, and even more so in Good Fellows
Speaker 1: than even in this, but even in this you see
Speaker 1: it here his ability to you know, when he when
Speaker 1: he goes to the club and sees Vicky with Selvin,
Speaker 1: takes his you know, goes for mm A.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Jackie Dare repeatedly it is very violent.
Speaker 2: It's full on.
Speaker 1: But that's the scene, which is my favorite sequence of
Speaker 1: the whole film is when and it's it's it's grim
Speaker 1: when they're at the house and so did you fat
Speaker 1: my wife?
Speaker 6: Yes, I know.
Speaker 2: That's it's so tense and pesky.
Speaker 1: Joey the character is like he's what a ballsy too,
Speaker 1: because he's still like, you know, he's with one of
Speaker 1: the you know, the best boxes in the world at
Speaker 1: that stage, even though he is getting a bit out
Speaker 1: of shape, and he's still calling him a fat fuck
Speaker 1: you know, and he like, yeah, he's saying, go up
Speaker 1: and and maybe if you if you give your wife one,
Speaker 1: you know, your life will be better, and like he's
Speaker 1: standing up to him like one of.
Speaker 4: The greatest lines, more fucking less eating you fat fuck?
Speaker 6: Wow?
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, champion of the world. But sure go for
Speaker 4: it mate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's this and they were improvising a lot
Speaker 1: of that stuff, so yeah, which is really incredible. And
Speaker 1: they've got this, they've got this almost Abbott and Costello
Speaker 1: style of like, you know, it's comedy, it's dark comedy,
Speaker 1: but it's a dance absolutely, it's it's it's extraordinary. So
Speaker 1: then then Jake leaves, Joey leaves, and DeNiro goes upstairs,
Speaker 1: and it's it's really you know, we've seen Micky go
Speaker 1: up the stairs earlier, and there's a great kind of
Speaker 1: pan back to Jake and Joe, and it's just really ominous,
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of foreboding. And we see Jake
Speaker 1: Lamona go upstairs in the bedroom and Vicky's making the
Speaker 1: bed and he kind of grabs her hair and she,
Speaker 1: you know, do you thak my brother?
Speaker 8: Why don't you tell me about it?
Speaker 3: Huh? I don't know. Are you talking about?
Speaker 8: Why don't you?
Speaker 3: Did you fuck my brother?
Speaker 6: Off? Is your peg?
Speaker 2: It's really tense. She escapes.
Speaker 1: And then he leaves, and then she's is what I
Speaker 1: quite like because she's really ballsy, Like she goes after him.
Speaker 2: She goes after him.
Speaker 1: She could have, you know, the sensible thing to do
Speaker 1: would be like this, go somewhere, get out of the
Speaker 1: house and go somewhere.
Speaker 2: But she goes after him.
Speaker 1: And and then Jake la Motta goes to Joe's house,
Speaker 1: which is obviously just around the corner, and beats the
Speaker 1: shit out of his brother and then slaps or punches.
Speaker 2: Vicky, and then.
Speaker 1: She goes back to the house and she just which
Speaker 1: is again how ballsy? Sure if this what the guidelines
Speaker 1: would be recommending in that situation, but she does it
Speaker 1: and she packs, and she just quietly packs. She's got
Speaker 1: with dignity and strength and the only thing that you
Speaker 1: would love, and you just because you just watch your
Speaker 1: leave because Jakely Motter comes in. He starts apologizing, I mean,
Speaker 1: abuses do sorry, and you just wanted to leave, You
Speaker 1: wanted to leave, sadly she doesn't.
Speaker 6: No, yeah, and that looks for me.
Speaker 4: The most challenging part of this film was the domestic
Speaker 4: violent stuff. It's really raw and brutal and as it
Speaker 4: is in real life. So I guess you know that
Speaker 4: is something nowadays that would have a trigger warning on
Speaker 4: it because and they do portray that relationship to show
Speaker 4: that while he's a big, tough guy and he thinks
Speaker 4: that he can beat up people and that's the way
Speaker 4: to get what he wants in life, he's also this
Speaker 4: incredibly fragile weak man who feels the need to exert
Speaker 4: his power on those who are smaller than him. And
Speaker 4: so yeah, I mean they're awful and very violent, but
Speaker 4: also I guess necessary in the storytelling, and that's what
Speaker 4: happened with this man and his wife, and she does
Speaker 4: in the end though that scene in the parking lot
Speaker 4: where he comes out, you know, at the end, he
Speaker 4: comes out from his club and she says, I'm going,
Speaker 4: I'm done and I'm taking the kids and if you
Speaker 4: come near me again, I'll call the police. And that
Speaker 4: was a moment of good Yes, Vicky, good good.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: They when the movie came out, they watched the film
Speaker 1: together and Jake Lamta's reaction was he felt horrified seeing
Speaker 1: himself on the screen like that, and he said, I
Speaker 1: wasn't that bad, was I?
Speaker 2: And she said you were worse.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I believe that. I absolutely believe.
Speaker 2: And this film doesn't can't exist with that.
Speaker 1: If the story goes that Jake Lamtter becomes, you know,
Speaker 1: the most celebrated boxer in history, and as all the
Speaker 1: the love around him and the riches, this movie doesn't work.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't it You need to see he become
Speaker 1: a loser, become lonely, begging for that hug from his brother,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, playing in a playing really shit
Speaker 1: comedy to a six.
Speaker 4: The segue into the stand up comedy career, because he
Speaker 4: wouldn't be one of his strong points if I had
Speaker 4: to pick a personality trade.
Speaker 6: Stand up comedy, and I'm like, what what happened? I
Speaker 6: don't even understand how did we get to stand up
Speaker 6: comedy with this guy?
Speaker 1: I I you know it's I think it's a masterpiece.
Speaker 1: And you wouldn't you wouldn't change anything, like you said
Speaker 1: scorse in this film, just just as catch up. You know,
Speaker 1: this is this is what's happening. You could argue that
Speaker 1: maybe you know, and the fact that it's a true story.
Speaker 1: This obviously happened.
Speaker 4: It did. He used to go around reciting Shakespeare Pete.
Speaker 4: He didn't actually do much comedy. He would just turn
Speaker 4: up and like what kind of what at the end?
Speaker 4: Just soliloquies and excerpts of things that writings that moved him.
Speaker 4: But he could couldn't really do it. Probably so people
Speaker 4: used to go and watch him kind of as a
Speaker 4: circus act, and d Niro caught up with him, like
Speaker 4: I don't know what it was before the film came out,
Speaker 4: and he was doing security the Strip Club, and that's
Speaker 4: where de Niro found out that he liked Shakespeare, and
Speaker 4: so yeah, he was obviously very complicated person, but.
Speaker 2: There was no indication throughout the film that he had
Speaker 2: any kind of interest in Shakespeare. Esse Williams or comedy,
Speaker 2: and I thought, mate, you know, if I agree.
Speaker 1: Earlier when he's at the at the nightclubs and there
Speaker 1: are guys on stage, and maybe maybe if I go
Speaker 1: back and watch it again, you know you might see
Speaker 1: But maybe it's just like a just to see him
Speaker 1: kind of clock idea, thinkling that that maybe that would
Speaker 1: be something that might be fun for him to do
Speaker 1: down down the track.
Speaker 4: He seemed a man a few words up to that point,
Speaker 4: do you know, like it only spoke the absolute necessary
Speaker 4: words in a very loud way if he wanted to
Speaker 4: know something.
Speaker 6: He didn't strike me as a question asker. So yeah, yeah, it'd.
Speaker 1: Be like if Peter dunn't quit politics and then was
Speaker 1: at a Melbourne comedy festival.
Speaker 2: Next year.
Speaker 1: On the cards You're not a funny guy.
Speaker 6: No, now, you're right. Yeah, that was the one bit.
Speaker 4: But I mean so much at the end of the film,
Speaker 4: and the reason he put on all that weight was
Speaker 4: for like a ten minute sequence four months of eating
Speaker 4: and all that health problems and the six months it
Speaker 4: took him to lose it up was for ten minutes
Speaker 4: of film where he's like busting out of attacks. I
Speaker 4: just thought that was such commitment.
Speaker 8: Some people aren't that lucky, like the one the Marlon
Speaker 8: Brando played an on the waterfront, an up and comer
Speaker 8: who was now down and outer. You remember I'd seen
Speaker 8: in the back of the car with his brother, Charlie,
Speaker 8: a small time racket guy, and I want something like this.
Speaker 8: It wasn't him, Charlie, it was you. You remember that
Speaker 8: night of the garden. You came down my dressing room
Speaker 8: and you said, kid, the Saint your Knight. We're going
Speaker 8: for the price on Wilson. Remember that the Saint your Knight,
Speaker 8: my night. I could have taken Wilson apart that night.
Speaker 8: So what happened? He gets a title shout out doors
Speaker 8: in a ballpark, and what do I get a long
Speaker 8: way ticket to Pelucaville. I was never no good after
Speaker 8: that night, Charlie. It was like a peaky reach and
Speaker 8: then it's downhill.
Speaker 2: It was you, Charlie.
Speaker 3: He was my brother.
Speaker 8: You should have looked out for me a little bit.
Speaker 8: You should have looked out for me just a little bit.
Speaker 8: You should have taken care of me just a little bit,
Speaker 8: instead of making me take them dice for the short
Speaker 8: end money.
Speaker 3: You don't understand.
Speaker 8: I could have a class.
Speaker 3: I could have been a contender.
Speaker 8: I could have been somebody instead of a bum, which
Speaker 8: is what I am. Let's face it, it was you, Charlie.
Speaker 3: It was you, Charlie.
Speaker 1: And how is it when he goes to get he
Speaker 1: needs the money and he goes to get these championship
Speaker 1: and he's meshing with the hem, he's trying to get
Speaker 1: the jewels, the diamonds out of it, and it takes
Speaker 1: it to the.
Speaker 2: Where's the belt? That's what's worth?
Speaker 6: That's what I was young. Why does he just about
Speaker 6: why is the hammer? I was so mad. I just
Speaker 6: I just you know, Oh my god, why does he
Speaker 6: just take the whole belt? What's he doing double for
Speaker 6: the whole thing?
Speaker 4: God?
Speaker 2: It was well, I was doing the same thing. I
Speaker 2: was literally yelling at the screen.
Speaker 1: The you mentioned the boxing belts earlier, it well they
Speaker 1: are they are so good, and they're all shot differently.
Speaker 1: But Scorsese really wanted to make the audience feel like
Speaker 1: they were in the ring with them, and and to
Speaker 1: the extent where but I.
Speaker 2: Said they're all different, someone's that they're in the ring. Sometimes.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: There's one of the scenes the Bout where de Niro
Speaker 1: is Jake Lomono loses the bout and he's a bit
Speaker 1: confused as to White and it's some of the focus
Speaker 1: is out.
Speaker 2: And then there's a shot from.
Speaker 1: Outside the ring where the rope of the ring is
Speaker 1: kind of like covering thro Thearow's eyes. It's just kind
Speaker 1: of supposed to show you that he's disorientated, that that's
Speaker 1: not really making sense for him. There's another fight where
Speaker 1: there's like almost like there's a fire in the in
Speaker 1: the arena and it's really smoking. You can actually you
Speaker 1: can hear the crackle a fire, and it's supposed to
Speaker 1: be like that this fight is taking place in a
Speaker 1: pit of hell. It's it's all those details.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Some movies is just like it represents like a master
Speaker 1: class in every element, and I feel like this.
Speaker 2: Is one of them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really isn't and you have to kind of
Speaker 4: go back and appreciate it. I think when you're watching it,
Speaker 4: you're just trying to take it all in and it's
Speaker 4: it really is quite visceral. So like that's why I've
Speaker 4: gone away and read about it and then gone back
Speaker 4: and rewatched it, and my appreciation for it is so
Speaker 4: much more.
Speaker 6: But I think it's the result of.
Speaker 4: A non sport artist being told to film. You know,
Speaker 4: I think I think it really the filmly benefited from
Speaker 4: the fact that he wasn't a boxing Scorsese, that he
Speaker 4: didn't feel the need to honor the sport of boxing
Speaker 4: as I think Rocky did. Rocky was clearly made by
Speaker 4: people who love fucking boxing, like, but this film was
Speaker 4: made by an artist who was trying to show people boxing,
Speaker 4: and so I just think that's why it was just
Speaker 4: less sporty and more arty and opera like and performative.
Speaker 4: And that's why I think this film isn't a boxing film,
Speaker 4: because it doesn't particularly honor the sport or the technique
Speaker 4: of boxing, like, but it does show it in this
Speaker 4: beautiful kind of artistic way that normally you just think
Speaker 4: of boxing is just meat heads and blood and punching,
Speaker 4: But in fact it is like a ballet. It's these
Speaker 4: two incredibly fit humans trying to weave around each other
Speaker 4: and move and strike, and it is choreography. It is
Speaker 4: like a dance, and Scorsese picked up on the dance
Speaker 4: element of boxing so beautifully. And I don't know if
Speaker 4: it was a massive sport and art that would have
Speaker 4: happened yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think absolutely right.
Speaker 1: And even the lack of training montages anything, I think
Speaker 1: you're only for memory.
Speaker 2: You really see him train.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was stirring, and that's you know, you see
Speaker 1: him bring his mates over, you know, and that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's more to do with that really than anything that's
Speaker 1: actually happening in the ring.
Speaker 2: As far as any there's no crunches, there's no there's
Speaker 2: no running up this you know Philadelphia. Yeah, steps which.
Speaker 4: No disrespect some of the greatest scenes, I mean, you know, amazing,
Speaker 4: but this film is Yeah, it's just sure there's boxing
Speaker 4: in it. But anyone who was worried about the comparisons
Speaker 4: need not have been, like if they're just so far apart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I want to give a shout out to two of
Speaker 1: the other actors as well. Frank Vincent, who plays as
Speaker 1: a cell. He scorse fans would recognize him. He's in
Speaker 1: Good Fellows, He's in Casino, He's in The Sopranos. He
Speaker 1: played Phil in The Sopranos. Died a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: As the Jecula model. Jelam only died in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: It was ninety five, believe it or not lived.
Speaker 6: In ninety five, took that many hits to there.
Speaker 2: It's incredible.
Speaker 4: God, well it doesn't know, it doesn't surprise me because
Speaker 4: he came back from being knocked out so many times.
Speaker 6: Like, yeah, of course he lived in ninety five, that
Speaker 6: makes sense.
Speaker 2: And Nicholas Colasanto, who played Tommy, he was coached from Cheers.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you ever watched Cheers.
Speaker 4: Please, I'm the daughter of a baby boomer. Of course
Speaker 4: I watched Cheers.
Speaker 6: On my God, I have a chance and a toys.
Speaker 1: Cheers was like one of my favorite sicks, Cheers and
Speaker 1: family Tires if I was growing up. Yeahs, because I
Speaker 1: Cheers is in Boston.
Speaker 4: Even at Tana, I was invested in the Sam Diane situation, like,
Speaker 4: of course.
Speaker 2: So good.
Speaker 1: So I think she started in eighty two and coach
Speaker 1: was for the first few years. I died in ninety five,
Speaker 1: so yeah, so he it was great to see U
Speaker 1: see him on the on screen. Well, it's been a
Speaker 1: lot of pleasure.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: I was really fascinated because you sent me a message
Speaker 1: when you watch it saying a little bit triggering, concerned,
Speaker 1: But I am you know, I'm glad.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm kind of glad you've watched it, and yeah, no, thank.
Speaker 4: You for make like I don't think I would have
Speaker 4: if it wasn't for this, but I always when I
Speaker 4: commit to something, I like to get inside of it
Speaker 4: where it has a skin suit and roll around to
Speaker 4: the edges.
Speaker 6: So I had to understand this film.
Speaker 4: So I'm glad you, thank you, thank you for giving
Speaker 4: me the gift of this film, because it really made
Speaker 4: me nostalgic and proud and sad, and it made me
Speaker 4: feel all the things that movie and cinema should make
Speaker 4: you feel. Because this is why I'm such a fan
Speaker 4: of it. So thank you, thank you for allowing me
Speaker 4: out of it.
Speaker 2: And one last thing.
Speaker 1: So DeNiro wins that the Oscar in nineteen eighty SU's
Speaker 1: a forty year anniversary this year for this movie.
Speaker 2: Wow, and this is the official celebration.
Speaker 6: Yes, they'll be rapped to stab someone and do correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So de Niro wins, I feel like this is good
Speaker 1: to bring this up in the way the world is
Speaker 1: at the moment he wins the Oscar, it doesn't make
Speaker 1: a great speech. He gets out there, he thinks the
Speaker 1: right people he's up against, people like Robert de Vaal,
Speaker 1: John hurt for the elephant man, and he'd a Fonder
Speaker 1: or Henry Fonder, one of the Fonders.
Speaker 2: Not Jane.
Speaker 1: But he ends up he ends up saying the references
Speaker 1: with all the terrible things happening in the world at
Speaker 1: the moment. You know, he's you know, he's bad. We
Speaker 1: can a nola this with all the terrible things happening
Speaker 1: in the world at the moment. And I did think.
Speaker 2: As I watched that.
Speaker 1: I watched that last night, I was just you know,
Speaker 1: looking around for some stuff, and I thought, okay, the
Speaker 1: world was you know, there's always terrible stuff happening in
Speaker 1: the world. I don't remember a pandemic happening in well,
Speaker 1: I wonder if it was.
Speaker 2: There was.
Speaker 1: I think nineteen eighty there was an assassination attempt on
Speaker 1: run a Break and I think that was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1: I didn't do the next thing and then look up,
Speaker 1: you know Wikipedia, nineteen eighty and I will do and
Speaker 1: bring that to you. But maybe it was the tension,
Speaker 1: you know Russia USA tension, Yeah, which of course will
Speaker 1: lead to the birth of Ivan.
Speaker 2: Drago whatever her hits, get this strike years later.
Speaker 6: But I will leave that easter egg lay that yeah.
Speaker 2: Leave that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know, the world's always been a
Speaker 1: terrible place, so let's just embrace it.
Speaker 4: And it's what a fucking love about you, Pete Hell
Speaker 4: your inspirational to the end.
Speaker 2: Best we've got.
Speaker 4: Hey, guys, the world's always been pretty fucking terrible, so
Speaker 4: let's just make the best of it.
Speaker 6: Thank you Pek twenty twenty to Light for whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 6: M Hi Choo Choo.
Speaker 1: Love having that chat with m She has such a
Speaker 1: unique voice and and she just puts everything out there,
Speaker 1: which which we love and I love having that chat
Speaker 1: to her about Raging Bull and other things. Check out
Speaker 1: our podcast Msolation, which she does with Michael Lucas, who
Speaker 1: is a great talent. He is a strained writer of
Speaker 1: a lot of the TV series, particularly Offspring as when
Speaker 1: I first came across Michael's work, Offspring a great Australian
Speaker 1: drama series.
Speaker 2: So thanks em.
Speaker 1: I want to think my podcast manager Derek Myers at
Speaker 1: Castaway Studios dot com dot Au. If you want a
Speaker 1: great space to record your podcast, this is the place
Speaker 1: to be. Cassawaystudios dot com dot Au and Tom and
Speaker 1: Jimmy at Circus Tree Sounds.
Speaker 2: If you're looking for.
Speaker 1: If you need some boutique audio, whether it be for
Speaker 1: an ad or a film or a TV show, those guys.
Speaker 2: Will take care of you.
Speaker 1: At Circus Tree, Sam, I want to thank Dan Movies,
Speaker 1: Dannabes dot com dot Au or your well, let's face it,
Speaker 1: we need it at the moment all your drinking needs.
Speaker 2: They will sort you out.
Speaker 1: And also email us at yasny podcast dot com dot Au.
Speaker 1: I am loving hearing from so many people. The feedback
Speaker 1: on the show has been outstanding. We are the number
Speaker 1: one film podcast in Australia. We got there after a
Speaker 1: single week and also we had the number one film
Speaker 1: and TV podcast in Australia. So thanks to everyone for listening. Please,
Speaker 1: if you can rate us, I recommend five stars and
Speaker 1: also just tell your friends. The word of mouth is
Speaker 1: still extremely valuable.
Speaker 2: So did that for us? I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Get onto us, tell us what you think about the podcast,
Speaker 1: anything you heard that you liked, anything you know, constructive criticism.
Speaker 1: I'm open to that as well. Next week on the
Speaker 1: show or next episode. Very excited a great made of
Speaker 1: mine and who has gone on to become a comedy sensation.
Speaker 1: Genuinely Ronnie Chang is on the show next week. I've
Speaker 1: known Ronnie for over ten years now is just taking
Speaker 1: it everything.
Speaker 2: He's just taking everything.
Speaker 1: His Netflix special is one of the great comedy specials
Speaker 1: of recent years, Asian comedian Destroys America. If you haven't
Speaker 1: seen it, check it out. You'll also need to check
Speaker 1: out if you're going to listen to the podcast Made
Speaker 1: in Manhattan. That was the movie that Ronnie recommended, So
Speaker 1: we chat about that all things j LO.
Speaker 2: We also chat a lot about Crazy.
Speaker 1: Rich Asians, which Ronnie was in and he gives fascinating
Speaker 1: insight in getting that role, what it meant to him,
Speaker 1: what was like being on set. And also he also
Speaker 1: talks about some of the great Australian films that he
Speaker 1: enjoyed catching during his ten years here in Australia. And
Speaker 1: there's one film that really surprised me that he found
Speaker 1: and became a little bit obsessed with, and it's a
Speaker 1: great film. So Ronnie Chang next episode of You Ain't
Speaker 1: Seen Nothing Yet Chatting Made in Manhattan until then, and
Speaker 1: so we leave Old Pete save fan Sult and to
Speaker 1: our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant
Speaker 1: good name