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Speaker 1: This is jam nation. I've just been discussing that it's

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Speaker 1: ten years since Julia Gillard delivered the speech of her life,

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Speaker 1: a speech that would go on to become a rallying

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Speaker 1: cry for women everywhere who've been subjected to sexism, to

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Speaker 1: misogyny and their person on their working lives. A decade

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Speaker 1: on what has changed and what has stayed the same.

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Speaker 1: Julia has released a new book edited by her called

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Speaker 1: Not Now, Not Ever. She joins us now Julia.

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Speaker 2: Hello, hellouly to be with you, long time, long time.

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Speaker 2: It's so great.

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Speaker 3: Not since you brought us a cheesecake. Remember when you

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Speaker 3: brought us a cheesecake.

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Speaker 2: Oh, dear Bribery and Corruption Scanner, that's right.

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Speaker 1: When you made this speech ten years ago, were you

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Speaker 1: aware the impact it would have at the time. Did

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Speaker 1: you feel that you owned the moment and you knew it?

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Speaker 2: I felt I own the moment in the sense that

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Speaker 2: it was a power full speech in the Parliament. I

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Speaker 2: mean you can tell, because you're very close to the

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Speaker 2: opposition how they're reacting. You can read the body language,

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Speaker 2: and they went from kind of you know, heads up,

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Speaker 2: animated yelling at me, to heads down looking at their phones.

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Speaker 2: So I knew it had been a powerful speech in

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Speaker 2: the Parliament, but I had no idea we would be

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Speaker 2: talking about it a week later, let alone ten years later.

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Speaker 2: No idea at all.

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Speaker 1: This book is extraordinary, with many women's experiences not just

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Speaker 1: about how they felt about your speech and how galvanizing

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Speaker 1: it was, but misogyny in their own lives. So interested.

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Speaker 1: In the chapter by Jennifer Palmieri, she was Hillary Clinton's

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Speaker 1: campaign communications director, and she says that Hillary was the

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Speaker 1: one that had to school her in saying how hard

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Speaker 1: this will be for Julia to become president of the US,

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Speaker 1: for Hillary to become the first female president. Jennifer said, well,

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Speaker 1: this shouldn't be too hard, and Hillary was one had

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Speaker 1: to said this will be almost impossible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Jennifer Palmieri's chapter is fantastic. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: this is a great collection of essays for a great cause.

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Speaker 2: All of the proceeds go to support the work of

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Speaker 2: the Global Institute for Women's Leadership, and I think that

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Speaker 2: Hillary Jennifer discussion actually shines a light on a broader problem,

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Speaker 2: which is a lot of people think, ah, gender inequality,

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Speaker 2: haven't we fixed that already? I mean, after all, we've

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Speaker 2: had one woman prime minister. It must all be fixed now.

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Speaker 2: But it's really when you look at the statistics here

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Speaker 2: in Australia, let alone globally, still a very entrenched problem.

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Speaker 2: I mean, whether we're looking at parliaments, businesses, at the

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Speaker 2: news media, at technology, still we disproportionately see men at

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Speaker 2: the top and women from their own lives know that

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Speaker 2: there are gendered hurdles in their way and there are

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Speaker 2: still sexist stereotypes that are brought to bear and that

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Speaker 2: they end up getting very frustrated around. So more to

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Speaker 2: do and you'll only have reached a quality when you

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Speaker 2: look at the top and fifty percent of the time

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Speaker 2: you're seeing a woman. So it's not about one woman

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Speaker 2: prime minister. It's basically about over a twenty thirty forty

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Speaker 2: year period, half of the prime ministers being women, and.

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Speaker 3: The vitriol really turns. A manager said this before, and

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Speaker 3: you summed it up so well. It just gets so personal.

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Speaker 3: If some of a powerful woman says something, it's always

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Speaker 3: something about how they look or something sexual.

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Speaker 1: And yes, Annabel Crab kind of nailed that in here.

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Speaker 1: She said, how how any criticism becomes a criticism of

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Speaker 1: either your appearance or it has it's an aggressively sexual

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Speaker 1: in nature.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Annabelle's really pointing a light on the

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Speaker 2: way in which things that potentially wouldn't be said face

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Speaker 2: to face anymore still get a huge run on social media.

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Speaker 2: And the anonymity of social media means people do go

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Speaker 2: from I didn't like what you said on TV too,

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Speaker 2: you know, you should be raped and killed. She points

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Speaker 2: out that that can be two or three tweets and

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Speaker 2: people are in that violent, misogynous zone. So I think

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Speaker 2: there's a lot to think about with social media and

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Speaker 2: how we make it safer for women. Now, I'm not

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Speaker 2: a technology person, you know. I can basically use my

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Speaker 2: phone and that's it. But it seems to me that

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Speaker 2: there are smart technology people who could be amending the

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Speaker 2: algorithms of social media so women don't face this time

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Speaker 2: after time in face to face life in the real world.

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Speaker 2: To use that terminology, I think the face of sexism

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Speaker 2: and misogyny today is a bit more benign than what

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Speaker 2: you would read on social media, but it's still excluding.

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Speaker 2: It's the things like, oh, you know, don't don't get

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Speaker 2: too upset, you know, why don't you light in that?

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Speaker 2: Why don't you smile a bit more. You know, the

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Speaker 2: stereotypes that a woman who has power is probably a

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Speaker 2: pretty nasty person, all of those coming to play, and

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Speaker 2: I've met hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of women who've

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Speaker 2: got their own story about all of that.

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Speaker 3: Do you find from in the ten years people like

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Speaker 3: Tony Abbott? Has he as any of those people that

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Speaker 3: were in opposition when you were doing that speech. Has

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Speaker 3: anyone said, you know what you were right?

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Speaker 2: No? I wish I could say there'd been some outbreak

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Speaker 2: of bipartisanship, but that's not my expectation, and in many

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Speaker 2: ways it doesn't really matter, because for me, it's not

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Speaker 2: about looking back then and working out, you know, who

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Speaker 2: should say what to who about it. That's not my interest.

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Speaker 2: I only look back to distill the lessons that we

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Speaker 2: can take forward as we're still on this quest to

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Speaker 2: change the world, and the Global Institute for Women's Leadership

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Speaker 2: is all about that. It's all about the evidence and

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Speaker 2: the most effective toolkit for change, so we get this

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Speaker 2: job done as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 3: Well, Julia, it's great, it's great to see you again,

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Speaker 3: but not now, not ever. Edited by Julia Gillard is

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Speaker 3: out now.

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Speaker 1: In all books, Studio's Fantastic.

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Speaker 3: And online. We look forward to you coming to the

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Speaker 3: studio and bringing yet another cheesecake.

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Speaker 2: You're wrong, We'll.

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Speaker 3: Hold you to that.

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Speaker 1: So nice to talk to you, Julia. You take care.

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Speaker 2: Very nice to see you think so