1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: I think that we can all agree that storytelling done 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: well is incredibly powerful. And it's easy to think that 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: a story is a mere recap of an event, right, 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: But according to Matthew Dix, a great story, one that 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: moves people and ultimately changes us, is anything but a recap. 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Matthew Dix is a world renowned and award winning storyteller 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: and the best selling author of story Worthy Luckily for Us. 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: He has spent many years researching the art and science 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: of how to tell a great story. So what is 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: the most critical ingredient of a great story? And how 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: do you know if a particular story is actually worth telling. 12 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: My name is doctor amanthey Iver. I'm an organizational psychologist 13 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: and the founder of Behavioral Science consultancy Invents. And this 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: is how I work a show about how to help 15 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: you do your best work. On today's My Favorite Tip episode, 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: we go back to an interview from the past and 17 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. In 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: today's show, I speak with Matthew Dix about how we 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: can all get better at storytelling. When someone is sharing 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: a story with you and you're identifying all these different 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: opportunities for that story, what's the process that's going through 22 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: your brain when you're kind of analyzing the story content 23 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: and thinking about its different opportunities for being applied. 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: I'm always asking myself what are they saying beyond the content, Like, 25 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: what's the you know, what is the overarching if we 26 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: remove all the content away, what were they really trying 27 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: to say? You know, fundamentally, a story tends to be 28 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: about change over time, So what is the change over 29 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: time that they're trying to describe? You know, there's a 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: story I tell to my kids all the time that 31 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: I recently sort of explained this well, when I was 32 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: in kindergarten, a boy named John Fox disappeared during indoor recess. 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: Like the recess ended, everyone came back to their seats 34 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: and John was not in his seat, and you know, 35 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: the teacher was like, well, maybe he's in the other classroom, 36 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: the other kindergarten classroom. 37 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 3: So she went next door. Missus Dubac could not find John. There. 38 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 3: She called the principal. 39 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 2: Back then when you had to like press a button 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: and talk on an intercom, so everyone heard the conversation. So, 41 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: you know, I heard her going, mister Hartnett, we can't 42 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: see him. To find John Fox, maybe you could make 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: an announcement. They made an announcement in a school. I 44 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 2: could see the level of stress rising as they couldn't 45 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: find this boy. I saw the custodian outside sort of 46 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: wandering around the playground looking for him. And then we 47 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: heard a scream, and it was a girl named Kim 48 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: who had opened the bathroom door to the girl's bathroom 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 2: and found John Fox in the girl's bathroom. What he 50 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: had done is he had gone into the girl's bathroom 51 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: by accident, realized he was in the girl's bathroom and 52 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: could not get himself out because he felt foolish and 53 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 2: he was afraid he was gonna get in trouble. So 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: even though he could hear himself being called on the intercom, 55 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: he couldn't get out of the bathroom. So I tell 56 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: that story to a bunch of teachers recently, and then 57 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: I say to them, when children and especially boys get 58 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: angry and they shouted us, or they slam something, or 59 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: they put their head down or they charge out of 60 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 2: a room, what they've really done is put themselves in 61 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: the bathroom. They've put themselves in the bathroom, and they 62 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: trapped themselves there because to get out of it. They 63 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: can't walk back in and say sorry, because that's a 64 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 2: threat to their ego and they're just not old enough 65 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: to deal with that. 66 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: And we can't win a power struggle with him. 67 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: We can't say, like, pick your head up, you're gonna 68 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: pick your head up, and you're gonna listen to me 69 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: right now. 70 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 3: You're never gonna win. 71 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: So as teachers, we have to find ways to get 72 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: kids out of the bathroom after they put themselves in. 73 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: So I just recently had this boy. He got mad 74 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: at me. I said, close your laptop. He threw his 75 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: headphones down. He slammed his computer and he put his 76 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: head down, and I knew he was now stuck in 77 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: the bathroom, just like John Fox. And so I gave 78 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: him a lot little bit of time, and then I 79 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: walked over to him and I said, listen, I know 80 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: I'm really boring and I'm putting you asleep, but I 81 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: need you to pick up your head eventually, because you 82 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: can't sleep in class. And then he looked up and 83 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: he smiled and he said, you are boring. And I 84 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: was asleep, and I said, I know, but I need 85 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: you to be awake now. And I walked on I 86 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: got him out of the bathroom, right So that is 87 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 2: a story now where teachers use that phrase, they say, oh, 88 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: I got well, I got a kid in the bathroom 89 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: right now, I got to figure out way to get 90 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: him out of the bathroom. As I'm telling the John 91 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 2: Fox story, though, they have no idea what I'm talking about, right. So, 92 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: what I'm always thinking about at the end of a 93 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,119 Speaker 2: story is what was I really saying In the John 94 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: Fox story? I am saying we get stuck in places 95 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 2: sometimes and we need help getting out right. So strip 96 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: away all the content and ask yourself what is the 97 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: story really about? And oftentimes once we strip the content away, 98 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: we can say it in a clear sort of feeling 99 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 2: or meaningful or insightful or realization kind of way. And 100 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: that's how those stories can be powerful for us. 101 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: Let's now break that down. What is your process for 102 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: crafting a story like the one that you just told. 103 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: Maybe let's start by firstly, how do you even know 104 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: if it's a story worth telling? If it's one of 105 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: those ten percents? 106 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 2: Well, a story in the end is about change over time. 107 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: The problem people have is they think that stories are 108 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 2: reports on their life. You know, in the worst version 109 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 2: of a story. Someone's going to tell you what happened 110 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: to them, but they're just going to be reporting on 111 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: the events chronologically rather than sort of crafting any meaning. 112 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: So when I'm looking at that ten percent, what I'm 113 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: looking for is moments in my life where I've fundamentally 114 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: changed in some way. You know, those changes are either 115 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 2: transformational meaning I used to be one kind of person 116 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: and now I'm another, or more often realizations. I used 117 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: to think something about myself or the world, or my 118 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 2: wife or kids, or the planet, and then some stuff 119 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: happened and now I think differently. And you don't have 120 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: to think very differently. It can be a very small change. 121 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: Small changes are beautiful. People believe in small chain and 122 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: so that's what a story is. So when I'm looking 123 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: for a story to tell, I'm always starting at the 124 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 2: end because I'm looking for these moments where we suddenly shift, 125 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: where we feel our heart or our mind open, the 126 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 2: hair on the back of your neck stands up. You 127 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: just get that feeling of wow, I think differently than 128 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: I did a moment ago. Those are the stories that 129 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: mean something to people. And all you have to do 130 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: is watch a movie, watch a television show, go to 131 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: a play. All the great stories of the world, all 132 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 2: the stories really of the world, are about change over. 133 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,679 Speaker 3: Time, even the stupid movies. 134 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: Ultimately we're starting with a character who has some flaw 135 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 2: or some need or some problem, and by the end 136 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 2: that flaw and need or problem will be solved to 137 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 2: some degree. Maybe not all the way, but you can 138 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: watch a movie or read a book and within the 139 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: first fifteen minutes you can tell what the end is 140 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 2: going to be, not with specificity, but you can look 141 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: at it and go, oh, this is a guy. He's 142 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: divorced and he's not getting along with his kids, and 143 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: he hasn't figured that relationship out yet, and at the 144 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: end of the movie he's going to have that relationship 145 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: a little more figured out. 146 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: Right, We just know it's it's. 147 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: Very it's instantaneous if we really put some thought into it. 148 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: But oftentimes we're lost in the story, which is a 149 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: beautiful thing too. 150 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this extract of my chat with Matthew, 151 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the 152 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: whole interview, which you can find a link to in 153 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to 154 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: improve the way that you work. I write a short, 155 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered 156 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets 157 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: that I'm loving through to interesting research findings. You can 158 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot com. That's how 159 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: I Work dot co. Thank you for sharing part of 160 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: your day with me by listening to How I Work. 161 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work better, 162 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy 163 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work 164 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangeri people, 165 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: part of the Koln Nation. I am so grateful for 166 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: being able to work and live on this beautiful land, 167 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: and I want to pay my respects to elders, past, 168 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium 169 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank you 170 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes 171 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: everything sound better than it would have otherwise.