WEBVTT - Are we in a second Space Race?

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<v Speaker 1>Ready, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the Daly OS.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty fifth of September. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy

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<v Speaker 2>fit Simons. In just a few months time, four NASA

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<v Speaker 2>astronauts will embark on the first crude lunar mission since

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy two.

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<v Speaker 4>Together, have a front row seat to history. We're returning

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<v Speaker 4>to the Moon after over fifty years.

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<v Speaker 2>Artemis two is scheduled to take off in February next

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<v Speaker 2>year for a ten day trip around the Moon, a

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<v Speaker 2>head of a crude mission to the lunar surface in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty seven. It comes amid what's been dubbed the

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<v Speaker 2>Second Space Race, as the US and China push to

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<v Speaker 2>get back to.

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<v Speaker 1>The Moon first.

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<v Speaker 2>Today we will explain everything you need to know about

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<v Speaker 2>the Artemis mission, why also wants to go to the Moon,

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<v Speaker 2>and why it's taken them so long to get back there.

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<v Speaker 3>But before we get into today's deep dive, here is

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<v Speaker 3>a quick message from our sponsor.

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<v Speaker 4>Billy.

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<v Speaker 1>If it's Ion's welcome back to the pod.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much. I thought everyone forgot about me.

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<v Speaker 3>It has been more than a month since I've been

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<v Speaker 3>on the point.

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<v Speaker 2>We could not forget about you. It's so exciting to

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<v Speaker 2>have you back.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I've missed you. I've missed recording into a purple

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<v Speaker 3>ball every day.

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<v Speaker 1>That is nice of you to say, Billy, I know

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<v Speaker 1>it missed you, of course, and our listeners of course.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course. I know you've had a big trip. You're

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<v Speaker 1>back from that.

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<v Speaker 3>I've pretty much gone all around the world. But you

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<v Speaker 3>know where I didn't go Space. I missed the moon,

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<v Speaker 3>did not quite get there. So I'm very excited to

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<v Speaker 3>hear about it today.

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<v Speaker 2>He's stolen my joke because I steering up to say, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry, Billy. I know you just got back

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<v Speaker 2>from a big trip, but don't worry, because today I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to take you to the moon.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh well, let's just return like I didn't ruin. That

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<v Speaker 3>is a great joke. It's very unpredictable. No one else

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<v Speaker 3>could have thought about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Great mine thinking alike. That's why we needed you back.

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<v Speaker 3>Couldn't be back, so Emma. Today we are talking about

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<v Speaker 3>a pretty major announcement this week, which is that NASA

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<v Speaker 3>is going back to the Moon. I always find this

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<v Speaker 3>quite surprising that despite the big race to the Moon

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<v Speaker 3>nearly sixty or seventy years ago, now yep, we actually

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<v Speaker 3>haven't really been back since. So this is a pretty

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<v Speaker 3>big announcement.

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<v Speaker 2>Right exactly, And all things going smoothly. Astronauts are set

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<v Speaker 2>to land on the Moon by mid twenty twenty seven,

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<v Speaker 2>so in less than two years time. But before that happens,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got a mission called Artemis two that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>lift off in February next year.

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<v Speaker 1>And still's a ten day test flight.

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<v Speaker 4>We will be launching four crew and them, along with

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<v Speaker 4>our ground teams, we are going to be working together

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<v Speaker 4>to execute this mission. This is a stepped approach, and

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<v Speaker 4>all that we learned from Artemis two we will build

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<v Speaker 4>upon there to prepare us for our first crew landing

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<v Speaker 4>on the surface of the Moon for Artemis three.

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<v Speaker 2>That was Lakeisha Hawkins speaking at a NASA press conference

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<v Speaker 2>this week.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>She is the acting Deputy Associate Administrator for NASA's Exploration

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<v Speaker 2>Systems Development Mission Directorate.

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<v Speaker 1>Try saying that ten times, and what you.

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<v Speaker 2>Would have heard there is that next year's mission is

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<v Speaker 2>a step towards putting actual astronauts back on the Moon.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So we have Artemis two, which is sending a

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<v Speaker 3>crew of astronauts on a mission around the Moon. That

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<v Speaker 3>is in feb next year, and then Artemis three will

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<v Speaker 3>be a mission on the Moon and that is in

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<v Speaker 3>mid twenty twenty seven, so in two years time. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>when was the last time a crew went to the Moon?

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<v Speaker 3>I know I said before, it was like sixty seventy

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<v Speaker 3>years ago, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>So nearly. It was a little bit more recently than that.

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<v Speaker 2>It was nineteen seventy two. The last time humans traveled

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<v Speaker 2>to the Moon. That was the Apollo seventeen mission, over

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<v Speaker 2>fifty years ago now, and that was the final mission

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<v Speaker 2>of NASA's Apollo program. So that was the program that

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<v Speaker 2>took Neil Armstrong. I was going to say, so basic terms,

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<v Speaker 2>are we talking about Neil Armstrong? Yes, we are talking

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<v Speaker 2>about Neil Armstrong, But Apollo seventeen wasn't Neil Armstrong. So

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<v Speaker 2>even though we got to the Moon all those years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>there has not been people on the Moon since the seventies,

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<v Speaker 2>but there have been still space exploration missions and shuttles,

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<v Speaker 2>and the only things that have been on the Moon,

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose, are rovers. So even though Artemis TI, which

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<v Speaker 2>is the one coming up in February, isn't going to

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<v Speaker 2>involve astronauts stepping onto the lunar surface. It will carry

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<v Speaker 2>astronauts farther from Earth and closer to the Moon than

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<v Speaker 2>any human has been in over half a century.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, why has it taken so long to get back there?

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really good question and it has a complicated answer.

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<v Speaker 2>So the official word from NASA is this is about

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<v Speaker 2>scientific discovery, economic benefits, inspiration for a new generation of explorers,

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<v Speaker 2>while quote maintaining American leadership in exploration. But the main

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<v Speaker 2>reasons why it's taken so long really come down to

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<v Speaker 2>politics and priorities. Space exploration is expensive, It is incredibly expensive,

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<v Speaker 2>so there needs to be not only a willingness from

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<v Speaker 2>the decision makers in government of the day, but also

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<v Speaker 2>a purpose behind making those big investments, a reason to

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<v Speaker 2>spend all that money. The Moon landing back in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty nine, Neil Armstrong buzz Aldron shout out that was

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<v Speaker 2>a Cold War era achievement. So America at that time

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<v Speaker 2>was in this race with the Soviet Union for space superiority.

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<v Speaker 2>America won that race in nineteen sixty nine with the

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<v Speaker 2>Apollo program, and that program was ended in the seventies

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<v Speaker 2>under US President Richard Nixon. Since then, NASA's priorities have

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<v Speaker 2>really changed depending on who was in the White House.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's been more than fifty years since the Apollo mission.

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<v Speaker 2>We have this generational gap in experience, which presents its

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<v Speaker 2>own challenges. But the Trump administration has the appetite to

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<v Speaker 2>put the Moon back on the agenda, and we saw

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<v Speaker 2>that both in President Trump's first term and now again

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<v Speaker 2>for this second term in office.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, and so we now have the Artemis program under

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<v Speaker 3>the Trump administration. Can you break down what that actually involves.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So this is a Moon exploration program led by NASA,

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<v Speaker 2>which stands for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the United States Space Agency.

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<v Speaker 3>That's definitely going to come up in a good weekend

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<v Speaker 3>quiz one time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exact nowly going to remember it, watch this space.

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<v Speaker 2>So Artemis was formally established in twenty seventeen. It's intended

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<v Speaker 2>to re establish a human presence on the Moon for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time since the Apollo seventeen mission, with this

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<v Speaker 2>stated long term goal to establish a permanent base on

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<v Speaker 2>the Moon and facilitate human missions to Mars. There are

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<v Speaker 2>several missions planned under the pro so Artemis two builds

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<v Speaker 2>on Artemis one, that was an uncrude mission in twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two, and NASA said this second mission is about

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<v Speaker 2>demonstrating a broad range of capabilities needed four deep space missions,

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<v Speaker 2>and that will involve four astronauts venturing around the Moon

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<v Speaker 2>over ten days, three astronauts from NASA, a Canadian Space

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<v Speaker 2>Agency astronaut, and in that group is one woman astronaut.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that's Artemis two, the one that's just going

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<v Speaker 3>I shouldn't say, just the one that is going around

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<v Speaker 3>the moon. Tell us about Artemis three, which is where

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<v Speaker 3>they plan to actually go on to the Moon again.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, Artemis three is expected to launch in mid twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seven. That was the update from NASA this week.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a little bit sooner than we were expecting, but

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<v Speaker 2>this would be the first time humans have landed on

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<v Speaker 2>the Moon since the seventies, and it would be the

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<v Speaker 2>big one.

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<v Speaker 1>So Artemis two next year will be major.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the closest we will have gotten to the Moon

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<v Speaker 2>in f something years. But that Artemis II mission is

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<v Speaker 2>when NASA will kind of execute the stages of its

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<v Speaker 2>plan to return to the Moon more frequently. It's looking

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<v Speaker 2>at yearly landings on the Moon with a goal to

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<v Speaker 2>establish a permanent presence there.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so we mentioned before that for about fifty or

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<v Speaker 3>so years, missions to the Moon have basically stopped, and

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<v Speaker 3>reasons for that are political and also they're expensive. But

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<v Speaker 3>now they are starting up again, And you said part

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<v Speaker 3>of the reason for that is the Trump administration. Why

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<v Speaker 3>exactly is the Trump administration interested in going back to

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<v Speaker 3>the Moon.

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<v Speaker 2>It has a lot to do with this idea of

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<v Speaker 2>the second space race. So if Apollo was NASA's attempt

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<v Speaker 2>to win the space race against Russia, Artemis is its

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<v Speaker 2>battle against China. So in July twenty twenty three, China's

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<v Speaker 2>space agency publicly announced a plan to land two astronauts

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<v Speaker 2>on the Moon by twenty thirty. Russia and China then

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<v Speaker 2>announced together that they're going to build a moon base together,

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<v Speaker 2>so this would be Russian Chinese infrastructure to get those

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<v Speaker 2>astronauts there, and it also formally invited more countries and

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<v Speaker 2>international organizations to join their International Research Station project as

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<v Speaker 2>this alternative to NASA's Artemis program. What's really interesting is

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<v Speaker 2>that China has already achieved some significant firsts in its race.

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<v Speaker 2>In June, a Chinese lunar land has successfully collected rocks

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<v Speaker 2>and soil from the far side of the Moon. That's

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<v Speaker 2>something that no other country had done, and it returned

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<v Speaker 2>them back to the Earth for study. So there is

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<v Speaker 2>kind of a broader geopolitical force really driving Artemis.

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<v Speaker 3>So China is aiming for twenty thirty Artemis, the US

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<v Speaker 3>is aiming for twenty twenty seven. How realistic are these timelines?

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<v Speaker 3>Are we actually looking at a close race here? Could

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<v Speaker 3>China actually get there first?

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<v Speaker 1>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>This is an another interesting point to the whole story

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<v Speaker 2>because NASA Administrator Bill Nelson said that this mid twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seven goal is well ahead of the Chinese government's

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<v Speaker 2>announced intention, but experts aren't actually so sure that NASA

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<v Speaker 2>will be able to do it. To quote former NASA

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<v Speaker 2>administrator Jim Bridenstein, who told a Senate hearing this quote,

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<v Speaker 2>unless something changes, it's highly unlikely the US will beat

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<v Speaker 2>China's projected timeline. He cited concerns about the development of

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<v Speaker 2>SpaceX's starship, which will serve as the lunar lander, the

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<v Speaker 2>need for multiple refueling missions, and the general kind of

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<v Speaker 2>pressure on the scale of this project versus the cost,

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<v Speaker 2>the technology, the research, and all of the hours involved

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<v Speaker 2>in making it happen and making it happen safely.

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<v Speaker 1>NASA experts did acknowledge.

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<v Speaker 2>This need to kind of balance ambition and safety at

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<v Speaker 2>this week's Artemis press conference.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's a little bit of what was said. This administration.

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<v Speaker 4>Has us to acknowledge that we are indeed in a well,

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<v Speaker 4>you know what people have commonly called a second space race.

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<v Speaker 4>There is a desire for us to return to the

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<v Speaker 4>surface of the Moon and to be the first to

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<v Speaker 4>return to the surface of the Moon. With that being said,

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<v Speaker 4>NASA's objective, though, is to do so safely.

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<v Speaker 3>And what's the strategic importance for the US or China

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<v Speaker 3>in getting to the moon first?

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<v Speaker 4>Like?

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<v Speaker 3>Why does it matter?

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<v Speaker 2>So this surprised me because I didn't really get it either,

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<v Speaker 2>apart from it being a bit of a technological capability

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<v Speaker 2>demonstration and a bit of pride from each superpower on

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<v Speaker 2>wanting to flex that tech.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Like, is it just bragging rights that we're fighting

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<v Speaker 3>for here?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there are deeper political consequences to consider, and they

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<v Speaker 2>actually have to do with the territory of the Moon,

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<v Speaker 2>the physical land on the Moon itself exactly. It sounds

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<v Speaker 2>a bit like Avatar, don't you reckon? Alan Cutler, who

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<v Speaker 2>is the president and CEO of the Coalition for Deep

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<v Speaker 2>Space Explorations, said, quote, the country that lands on the

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<v Speaker 2>Moon first will shape the rules of engagement in space

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<v Speaker 2>for decades to come. Cutler and other US officials are

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<v Speaker 2>basically concerned that if China gets there first, that there

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<v Speaker 2>could be competition over resources in space. That includes valuable

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<v Speaker 2>water ice that's thought to be locked up in craters

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.439
<v Speaker 2>at the lunar South Pole, so Billy. The thinking is

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.360
<v Speaker 2>that water on the Moon could be used to make

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.640
<v Speaker 2>rocket fuel, to propel missions deeper into space, or to

0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>sustain colonies of humans living on the Moon. And basically

0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 2>China and the US want to be the ones to

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.080
<v Speaker 2>get their hands on that water.

0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.280
<v Speaker 3>And so what I guess you're kind of hinting at

0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 3>or explicitly saying, is that this is all building towards

0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.400
<v Speaker 3>missions to Mars.

0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a pretty far out concept, but it's closer

0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.240
<v Speaker 2>than we think. The Artemis program has this stated long

0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.960
<v Speaker 2>term goal to establish a permanent base on the Moon

0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.160
<v Speaker 2>to facilitate missions to Mars. So we want to get

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.079
<v Speaker 2>to the Moon not only to have access to that

0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:14.360
<v Speaker 2>water ice, but also as a kind of base for

0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 2>missions to Mars, because from Earth to Mars, the refueling,

0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 2>the specs around that at the moment are physically impossible.

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.719
<v Speaker 2>The idea, though, is that the Moon becomes this kind

0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.800
<v Speaker 2>of testing ground, this stepping stone for the much more

0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:29.880
<v Speaker 2>challenging journey to Mars.

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:30.920
<v Speaker 1>And on that.

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Base, hopefully, you know, NASA experts will learn how to

0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.440
<v Speaker 2>develop the technologies needed to get to Mars, how to

0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>live and work in deep space environments, testing life support systems,

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.840
<v Speaker 2>can they grow vegetables and food on the Mars surface,

0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.400
<v Speaker 2>all of that kind of stuff. But I do think

0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 2>it's important to note that while this sounds exciting, both

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 2>the Chinese and American programs have faced delays. I would

0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>take their timelines with a grain of salt. Space programs

0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.160
<v Speaker 2>are in credibly complex, and Artemis still has some significant

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.160
<v Speaker 2>technical hurdles to overcome. So who knows who will win

0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.120
<v Speaker 2>the second space race. Will it be the US, will

0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 2>it be China. Whatever happens, it feels like we're certainly

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.199
<v Speaker 2>entering a new era of space exploration.

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.880
<v Speaker 3>Do you know how close we are to getting to Mars.

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.120
<v Speaker 2>I'd say we are about several thousand light years.

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I was expecting more like human years. But light years,

0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I can never get my head around those.

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, basically, we don't know how close we are

0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 2>to Mars until we have.

0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 3>A presence on the moon. Exactly, got it. But do

0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.160
<v Speaker 3>you think it will be in our lifetime? I think

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 3>I think it will be in our lifetime. That will

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 3>be exciting.

0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it will be in our lifetime

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 2>while we still have our.

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Natural hair color. Okay, however, I'll take that.

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Although I'm not an astrophysicist, I'm not a rocket scientist,

0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:59.080
<v Speaker 2>so don't quote me on.

0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 3>I will be you to everyone I know. I'll be

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.640
<v Speaker 3>like Emma says, we're going to Mars in our lifetime, the.

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Girl with the Bachelor of media says, we're going to Mars.

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Emma, thank you for that breakdown. A bachelor in media

0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 3>is all I need for you to be an expert

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.440
<v Speaker 3>in space. Apparently, I'll take it.

0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Billy, and thank you to the real experts.

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 3>And that is all we have time for today's deep dive.

0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We'll

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.760
<v Speaker 3>be back in your ears this afternoon with the headlines,

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 3>but until then, have a great day and thanks for

0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 3>having me back.

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.960
<v Speaker 4>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 4>Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 4>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 4>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 4>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 4>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.