1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Ready, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 2: This is the Daly OS. 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 3: Oh, now it makes sense. 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: the twenty fifth of September. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: fit Simons. In just a few months time, four NASA 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: astronauts will embark on the first crude lunar mission since 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two. 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 4: Together, have a front row seat to history. We're returning 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 4: to the Moon after over fifty years. 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: Artemis two is scheduled to take off in February next 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: year for a ten day trip around the Moon, a 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: head of a crude mission to the lunar surface in 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven. It comes amid what's been dubbed the 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: Second Space Race, as the US and China push to 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: get back to. 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: The Moon first. 18 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: Today we will explain everything you need to know about 19 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: the Artemis mission, why also wants to go to the Moon, 20 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: and why it's taken them so long to get back there. 21 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: But before we get into today's deep dive, here is 22 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: a quick message from our sponsor. 23 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 4: Billy. 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: If it's Ion's welcome back to the pod. 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I thought everyone forgot about me. 26 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 3: It has been more than a month since I've been 27 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: on the point. 28 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 2: We could not forget about you. It's so exciting to 29 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 2: have you back. 30 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 3: Oh, I've missed you. I've missed recording into a purple 31 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: ball every day. 32 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: That is nice of you to say, Billy, I know 33 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: it missed you, of course, and our listeners of course. 34 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: Of course. I know you've had a big trip. You're 35 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: back from that. 36 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 3: I've pretty much gone all around the world. But you 37 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 3: know where I didn't go Space. I missed the moon, 38 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: did not quite get there. So I'm very excited to 39 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 3: hear about it today. 40 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: He's stolen my joke because I steering up to say, oh, 41 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, Billy. I know you just got back 42 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: from a big trip, but don't worry, because today I'm 43 00:01:58,760 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: going to take you to the moon. 44 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: Oh well, let's just return like I didn't ruin. That 45 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 3: is a great joke. It's very unpredictable. No one else 46 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: could have thought about it. 47 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: Great mine thinking alike. That's why we needed you back. 48 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: Couldn't be back, so Emma. Today we are talking about 49 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: a pretty major announcement this week, which is that NASA 50 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 3: is going back to the Moon. I always find this 51 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: quite surprising that despite the big race to the Moon 52 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 3: nearly sixty or seventy years ago, now yep, we actually 53 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 3: haven't really been back since. So this is a pretty 54 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 3: big announcement. 55 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: Right exactly, And all things going smoothly. Astronauts are set 56 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: to land on the Moon by mid twenty twenty seven, 57 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: so in less than two years time. But before that happens, 58 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: we've got a mission called Artemis two that's going to 59 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: lift off in February next year. 60 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: And still's a ten day test flight. 61 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 4: We will be launching four crew and them, along with 62 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 4: our ground teams, we are going to be working together 63 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 4: to execute this mission. This is a stepped approach, and 64 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 4: all that we learned from Artemis two we will build 65 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 4: upon there to prepare us for our first crew landing 66 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 4: on the surface of the Moon for Artemis three. 67 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 2: That was Lakeisha Hawkins speaking at a NASA press conference 68 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: this week. 69 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: Now. 70 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: She is the acting Deputy Associate Administrator for NASA's Exploration 71 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: Systems Development Mission Directorate. 72 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: Try saying that ten times, and what you. 73 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: Would have heard there is that next year's mission is 74 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: a step towards putting actual astronauts back on the Moon. 75 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: Okay, So we have Artemis two, which is sending a 76 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: crew of astronauts on a mission around the Moon. That 77 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: is in feb next year, and then Artemis three will 78 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 3: be a mission on the Moon and that is in 79 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: mid twenty twenty seven, so in two years time. Yeah, 80 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: when was the last time a crew went to the Moon? 81 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: I know I said before, it was like sixty seventy 82 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: years ago, yes. 83 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: So nearly. It was a little bit more recently than that. 84 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: It was nineteen seventy two. The last time humans traveled 85 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: to the Moon. That was the Apollo seventeen mission, over 86 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: fifty years ago now, and that was the final mission 87 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: of NASA's Apollo program. So that was the program that 88 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: took Neil Armstrong. I was going to say, so basic terms, 89 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: are we talking about Neil Armstrong? Yes, we are talking 90 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: about Neil Armstrong, But Apollo seventeen wasn't Neil Armstrong. So 91 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: even though we got to the Moon all those years ago, 92 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: there has not been people on the Moon since the seventies, 93 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: but there have been still space exploration missions and shuttles, 94 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: and the only things that have been on the Moon, 95 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: I suppose, are rovers. So even though Artemis TI, which 96 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 2: is the one coming up in February, isn't going to 97 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: involve astronauts stepping onto the lunar surface. It will carry 98 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: astronauts farther from Earth and closer to the Moon than 99 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 2: any human has been in over half a century. 100 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 3: Wow, why has it taken so long to get back there? 101 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: That's a really good question and it has a complicated answer. 102 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: So the official word from NASA is this is about 103 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: scientific discovery, economic benefits, inspiration for a new generation of explorers, 104 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: while quote maintaining American leadership in exploration. But the main 105 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 2: reasons why it's taken so long really come down to 106 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: politics and priorities. Space exploration is expensive, It is incredibly expensive, 107 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: so there needs to be not only a willingness from 108 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: the decision makers in government of the day, but also 109 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 2: a purpose behind making those big investments, a reason to 110 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: spend all that money. The Moon landing back in nineteen 111 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: sixty nine, Neil Armstrong buzz Aldron shout out that was 112 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: a Cold War era achievement. So America at that time 113 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: was in this race with the Soviet Union for space superiority. 114 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 2: America won that race in nineteen sixty nine with the 115 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: Apollo program, and that program was ended in the seventies 116 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: under US President Richard Nixon. Since then, NASA's priorities have 117 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: really changed depending on who was in the White House. 118 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: So it's been more than fifty years since the Apollo mission. 119 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: We have this generational gap in experience, which presents its 120 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: own challenges. But the Trump administration has the appetite to 121 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 2: put the Moon back on the agenda, and we saw 122 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: that both in President Trump's first term and now again 123 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 2: for this second term in office. 124 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,119 Speaker 3: Okay, and so we now have the Artemis program under 125 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 3: the Trump administration. Can you break down what that actually involves. 126 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: Yes, So this is a Moon exploration program led by NASA, 127 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: which stands for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. 128 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: It's the United States Space Agency. 129 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: That's definitely going to come up in a good weekend 130 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 3: quiz one time. 131 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, exact nowly going to remember it, watch this space. 132 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: So Artemis was formally established in twenty seventeen. It's intended 133 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: to re establish a human presence on the Moon for 134 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: the first time since the Apollo seventeen mission, with this 135 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: stated long term goal to establish a permanent base on 136 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: the Moon and facilitate human missions to Mars. There are 137 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: several missions planned under the pro so Artemis two builds 138 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,559 Speaker 2: on Artemis one, that was an uncrude mission in twenty 139 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: twenty two, and NASA said this second mission is about 140 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: demonstrating a broad range of capabilities needed four deep space missions, 141 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 2: and that will involve four astronauts venturing around the Moon 142 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: over ten days, three astronauts from NASA, a Canadian Space 143 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: Agency astronaut, and in that group is one woman astronaut. 144 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 3: And so that's Artemis two, the one that's just going 145 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: I shouldn't say, just the one that is going around 146 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 3: the moon. Tell us about Artemis three, which is where 147 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: they plan to actually go on to the Moon again. 148 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: Yes, Artemis three is expected to launch in mid twenty 149 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: twenty seven. That was the update from NASA this week. 150 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: It's a little bit sooner than we were expecting, but 151 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: this would be the first time humans have landed on 152 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: the Moon since the seventies, and it would be the 153 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: big one. 154 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: So Artemis two next year will be major. 155 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: It's the closest we will have gotten to the Moon 156 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: in f something years. But that Artemis II mission is 157 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: when NASA will kind of execute the stages of its 158 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 2: plan to return to the Moon more frequently. It's looking 159 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: at yearly landings on the Moon with a goal to 160 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: establish a permanent presence there. 161 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: Okay, so we mentioned before that for about fifty or 162 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 3: so years, missions to the Moon have basically stopped, and 163 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 3: reasons for that are political and also they're expensive. But 164 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: now they are starting up again, And you said part 165 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: of the reason for that is the Trump administration. Why 166 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 3: exactly is the Trump administration interested in going back to 167 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: the Moon. 168 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: It has a lot to do with this idea of 169 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: the second space race. So if Apollo was NASA's attempt 170 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: to win the space race against Russia, Artemis is its 171 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: battle against China. So in July twenty twenty three, China's 172 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: space agency publicly announced a plan to land two astronauts 173 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: on the Moon by twenty thirty. Russia and China then 174 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 2: announced together that they're going to build a moon base together, 175 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: so this would be Russian Chinese infrastructure to get those 176 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: astronauts there, and it also formally invited more countries and 177 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: international organizations to join their International Research Station project as 178 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 2: this alternative to NASA's Artemis program. What's really interesting is 179 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: that China has already achieved some significant firsts in its race. 180 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: In June, a Chinese lunar land has successfully collected rocks 181 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: and soil from the far side of the Moon. That's 182 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: something that no other country had done, and it returned 183 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: them back to the Earth for study. So there is 184 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: kind of a broader geopolitical force really driving Artemis. 185 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 3: So China is aiming for twenty thirty Artemis, the US 186 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: is aiming for twenty twenty seven. How realistic are these timelines? 187 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: Are we actually looking at a close race here? Could 188 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 3: China actually get there first? 189 00:09:58,920 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: Well? 190 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: This is an another interesting point to the whole story 191 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: because NASA Administrator Bill Nelson said that this mid twenty 192 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: twenty seven goal is well ahead of the Chinese government's 193 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: announced intention, but experts aren't actually so sure that NASA 194 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: will be able to do it. To quote former NASA 195 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 2: administrator Jim Bridenstein, who told a Senate hearing this quote, 196 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: unless something changes, it's highly unlikely the US will beat 197 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: China's projected timeline. He cited concerns about the development of 198 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: SpaceX's starship, which will serve as the lunar lander, the 199 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: need for multiple refueling missions, and the general kind of 200 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: pressure on the scale of this project versus the cost, 201 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: the technology, the research, and all of the hours involved 202 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: in making it happen and making it happen safely. 203 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: NASA experts did acknowledge. 204 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: This need to kind of balance ambition and safety at 205 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: this week's Artemis press conference. 206 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of what was said. This administration. 207 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 4: Has us to acknowledge that we are indeed in a well, 208 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 4: you know what people have commonly called a second space race. 209 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 4: There is a desire for us to return to the 210 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 4: surface of the Moon and to be the first to 211 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 4: return to the surface of the Moon. With that being said, 212 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 4: NASA's objective, though, is to do so safely. 213 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: And what's the strategic importance for the US or China 214 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 3: in getting to the moon first? 215 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 4: Like? 216 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 3: Why does it matter? 217 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 2: So this surprised me because I didn't really get it either, 218 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: apart from it being a bit of a technological capability 219 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 2: demonstration and a bit of pride from each superpower on 220 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: wanting to flex that tech. 221 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, is it just bragging rights that we're fighting 222 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 3: for here? 223 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: Well, there are deeper political consequences to consider, and they 224 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: actually have to do with the territory of the Moon, 225 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 2: the physical land on the Moon itself exactly. It sounds 226 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: a bit like Avatar, don't you reckon? Alan Cutler, who 227 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: is the president and CEO of the Coalition for Deep 228 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: Space Explorations, said, quote, the country that lands on the 229 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: Moon first will shape the rules of engagement in space 230 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: for decades to come. Cutler and other US officials are 231 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 2: basically concerned that if China gets there first, that there 232 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: could be competition over resources in space. That includes valuable 233 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: water ice that's thought to be locked up in craters 234 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 2: at the lunar South Pole, so Billy. The thinking is 235 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: that water on the Moon could be used to make 236 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: rocket fuel, to propel missions deeper into space, or to 237 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: sustain colonies of humans living on the Moon. And basically 238 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: China and the US want to be the ones to 239 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 2: get their hands on that water. 240 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: Okay. 241 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 3: And so what I guess you're kind of hinting at 242 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 3: or explicitly saying, is that this is all building towards 243 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: missions to Mars. 244 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty far out concept, but it's closer 245 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: than we think. The Artemis program has this stated long 246 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: term goal to establish a permanent base on the Moon 247 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 2: to facilitate missions to Mars. So we want to get 248 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 2: to the Moon not only to have access to that 249 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: water ice, but also as a kind of base for 250 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: missions to Mars, because from Earth to Mars, the refueling, 251 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: the specs around that at the moment are physically impossible. 252 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 2: The idea, though, is that the Moon becomes this kind 253 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: of testing ground, this stepping stone for the much more 254 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 2: challenging journey to Mars. 255 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: And on that. 256 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 2: Base, hopefully, you know, NASA experts will learn how to 257 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: develop the technologies needed to get to Mars, how to 258 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: live and work in deep space environments, testing life support systems, 259 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 2: can they grow vegetables and food on the Mars surface, 260 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 2: all of that kind of stuff. But I do think 261 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: it's important to note that while this sounds exciting, both 262 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: the Chinese and American programs have faced delays. I would 263 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: take their timelines with a grain of salt. Space programs 264 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: are in credibly complex, and Artemis still has some significant 265 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 2: technical hurdles to overcome. So who knows who will win 266 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: the second space race. Will it be the US, will 267 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 2: it be China. Whatever happens, it feels like we're certainly 268 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 2: entering a new era of space exploration. 269 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: Do you know how close we are to getting to Mars. 270 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: I'd say we are about several thousand light years. 271 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 3: Oh, I was expecting more like human years. But light years, 272 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: I mean, I can never get my head around those. 273 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: But yeah, basically, we don't know how close we are 274 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: to Mars until we have. 275 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 3: A presence on the moon. Exactly, got it. But do 276 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: you think it will be in our lifetime? I think 277 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 3: I think it will be in our lifetime. That will 278 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 3: be exciting. 279 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: I don't know if it will be in our lifetime 280 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: while we still have our. 281 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: Natural hair color. Okay, however, I'll take that. 282 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: Although I'm not an astrophysicist, I'm not a rocket scientist, 283 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: so don't quote me on. 284 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 3: I will be you to everyone I know. I'll be 285 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 3: like Emma says, we're going to Mars in our lifetime, the. 286 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: Girl with the Bachelor of media says, we're going to Mars. 287 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 3: Emma, thank you for that breakdown. A bachelor in media 288 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: is all I need for you to be an expert 289 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 3: in space. Apparently, I'll take it. 290 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, Billy, and thank you to the real experts. 291 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 3: And that is all we have time for today's deep dive. 292 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We'll 293 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 3: be back in your ears this afternoon with the headlines, 294 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 3: but until then, have a great day and thanks for 295 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 3: having me back. 296 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 4: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 297 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 4: Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 298 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 4: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 299 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 4: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 300 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 4: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 301 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 4: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.