1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Paul McIntyre, Editor at Large at MI three. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to the three Audio Edition. I've been a business 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: journalist for EON's really covering the marketing, media, agency and 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: tech sectors. And in this series we try to get 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: under the hood on consumer and customer trends and broader 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: developments that are shifting and shaping industry. And this three 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Audio edition is created with commercial partners as part of 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: our Market Voice series. Well, you may have caught the 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: latest big herey fallout over a fifteen second frighteningly real, 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: not real at all, fast action punch up between Brad 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Pitt and Tom Cruise that's got Hollywood rattled and the 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: likes of vayner Media's Gary Vaynerchuk warning brands in a 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: recent MO three podcast that in two to four years 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: across the Internet and particularly on his favorite social media platforms, 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: that and I quote all of us, me and you, 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: We're not going to leave a single video on the Internet, 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: not one. It has incredibly big social implications. I'm concerned 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: about that. And as Vanessa Lyons pointed out in an 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: MI three Market Voice iphed last week, the trust issue 20 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: is live now with the Iran conflict where graphics from 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: a video game have been shared as real footage and 22 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: viewed seventy million times. Australians, she says, now lead the 23 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: world around concerns over misinformation. In the instance of the 24 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: Pit and Cruise deep fake trailer, it was created with 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: a simple two line prompt on Sea Dance two point zero, 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: owned by China's TikTok parent Byteedance. The biggest implication in 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: Vanderchuk's reckoning, even before the Pit versus Cruz deep fake 28 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: landed is a fatal hit to consumer and audience trust 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: around content. His blue sky hope for brands and brand 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: originated content on their owned channels and for professional publishers 31 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: is that the blockchain will emerge as the hero in 32 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: a zero trust world for content customers and communications. He 33 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: suggests provable providence or authenticity will come from content minted 34 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: on the blockchain. For instance, if you suspect this podcast 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: you're listening to now with my Guests is an AI 36 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: audio deep fake, run it from MI three's blockchain address, 37 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: where the content will be minted with publisher providence. It's 38 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: a plausible and possible scenario, with one giant catch. The 39 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: idea is years away even Vanderchuk says, and I quote, 40 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: I don't have it all figured out in my head now. 41 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: At least he's thinking about it. But the challenge is 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: that the pit Cruz deep fake blockbuster is here now, 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: along with tens of thousands of AI videos, words, and 44 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: images like the video game dressed up as real Iranian 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: conflict footage that is cumulatively blurring, blending, and bending the 46 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: real world. My guests today say they're already seeing the 47 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: strongest trust fueled consumer signals, sentiment, and behavior changes since 48 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: Covid gen Z. Those aged between fifteen and thirty are 49 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: at the heart of the trust movement that's been lost 50 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: on a large swathe of advertisers and agencies. The gen 51 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: Z signal loss on trust, as digital marketers like to 52 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: call it, is similar in scope to the slow acceptance 53 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: by industry on the swing by gen y back to 54 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: physical retail over online shopping. It was showing up clearly 55 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: and covered widely in global e commerce data eighteen months ago. 56 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: So backed by a new consumer research project from Think 57 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: News Brands, my guests Today proposed an alternative on the 58 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: trust consumer content conundrum based on what's already underway in 59 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: the real world. With consumer behavior and sentiment. Laura Maxwell 60 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: was the CEO of New Zealand News, Lifestyle and regional 61 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: publisher Stuff, the first in the region to put a 62 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: moratorium on distributing content on social platforms with no impact 63 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: on its audience base whatsoever. Laura is now Managing Director 64 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: of News Australia in Queensland and chair of Think News Brands. 65 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: Laura's joined in. 66 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: This important debate by Nine's Commercial Director of Publishing Ashley Thomas, 67 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: and Vice President of Australian US Zealand. For the Trade Desk, 68 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: James Bays, Welcome to you all. It's a meaty METI 69 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: subject we're getting ourselves into here, but really really important. Laura, 70 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: there's a we might start with you. There's a lot 71 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: of movement out there in consumer land. You're seeing some 72 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: of the biggest sentiments and behavioral shifts I think since 73 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: COVID with your audiences and more broadly trust and content. 74 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: Just give us a sense, really what are the headline 75 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: developments that much of the market may be missing it 76 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: at the moment. 77 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 2: And welcome Laurie. Good to have you on the mics. 78 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: Thank you very much and lovely to be here. You're 79 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: absolutely correct we are seeing as publishers that news has 80 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 3: never matted more. And you know, information is everywhere at 81 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 3: the moment, but truth and trust aren't and humans will 82 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 3: seek out a very viable force. But what hasn't changed 83 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 3: does people want to know what is happening where, ho, 84 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: why and how and they're turning to news media to 85 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 3: verify what they're seeing on news platforms. You know nine 86 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 3: and ten Australians are consuming news, one and two are 87 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: actually starting their day consuming news. So people are smart, 88 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: they're really wise to the algorithmic engines of the social platforms. 89 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: They know that they actively provoke controversy to drive engagement 90 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 3: and that stokes their monetization model. But if you think 91 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 3: about coming back to the AI influence that we have now, 92 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 3: we have a really heightened mistrust environment. We've got paid 93 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 3: influences in our research shows that fifty seven Australian see 94 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: influencers and celebrities as misinformation threats. We've got unqualified experts 95 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 3: and content that is now just manufactured by AI. It's 96 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: an absolute mindfield. 97 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: What impact are you seeing on what's happening with consumption 98 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: of content both in a news context but also in 99 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: this research program project that you did. 100 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: What's showing up there? 101 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: Is there anything sort of I think we talk about 102 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: sort of quite a significant shift in sentiment. 103 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 2: What's the data showing. 104 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the data is showing that, you know, seventy 105 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: eight percent of Australians see news as trustworthy and they 106 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 3: are moving two news platforms more than they have in 107 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 3: the past. We've got two and five of gen zs 108 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: who are coming to check news media. You're seen on 109 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: social platforms now, whilst that's only two and five, we 110 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: see that starting to increase. 111 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 4: But if you look. 112 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: At other studies, if you look at the Deloitte's research 113 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 3: study that they're at their annual Entertainment and Media report 114 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: that they do, podcasts and news media were two of 115 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 3: the only media not to see fools in engagement time 116 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 3: and not to see fools in churn of subscribers. And 117 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 3: that's definitely what we are seeing reflected in the news 118 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 3: media in Australia. 119 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: Laur just on that trust issue that you talked about 120 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: trust with his news media, But what is the equivalent 121 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: on the social platforms on trust comparatively? 122 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: Have you got that data somewhere so well? 123 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: Seventy five percent of Australian's trust news media forty percent. 124 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 3: Forty percent trust social platforms. So it's a huge difference 125 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 3: between between that, and that's because people have woken up 126 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: to the algorithms, they understand how it works. It's entertaining, perhaps, 127 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 3: but if they want to want verified, trusted news sources, 128 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: they're coming to news environments and news brands to verify 129 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: what they are hearing or seeing or reading on social platforms. 130 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: So as you're seeing the same things emerge with with 131 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: nines audience based on trust tell us the observations you're 132 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: and trends you're seeing with consumers and of course the 133 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: broader study that's been involved that think news brains is done. 134 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks Paul. 135 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 5: I think you know, Laura obviously nailed a couple of 136 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 5: the key stats there with the with the two and 137 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 5: five Aussies who were turning up to news media for. 138 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 4: That fact checking element. 139 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 5: I think what we're finding is that that reliance on 140 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 5: social media for entertainment is really strong, but when they 141 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 5: want news, they are coming back or coming to our 142 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 5: sites or new sites in general to make sure that 143 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 5: they're they're getting. 144 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 4: A reliable and a verified version of events. And I 145 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 4: guess for us. 146 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 5: More broadly, the our audiences, you know, as a surprise 147 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 5: to nobody, when when something does happen in a news cycle, 148 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 5: we see spikes in our traffic. 149 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 4: And that's from all audiences, not just from gen Z. 150 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 5: But that those spikes and most recently that you know, 151 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 5: things like the Victorian fire fires in early January, we 152 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 5: saw huge spikes of audiences from a week on week 153 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 5: personive of increases by twenty five percent, something like the 154 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 5: Aaron Patterson verdict. We saw up to seven percent increases 155 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 5: of weekly traffic spike. So we know that when news happens, 156 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 5: the audiences flocked to our site directly. 157 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: Well, no surprises. 158 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: I guess you've seen the same thing right now with 159 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: the Iran conflict, are you? 160 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: Oh? 161 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:23,479 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 162 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 5: I mean I feel like we keep saying here that 163 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 5: the new cycle hasn't really had a dull moment since 164 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 5: November twenty nineteen, but those those peaks and troughs are real, 165 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 5: Like when something happens, they'll see it on social and 166 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 5: then they'll come and verify it on a news site. 167 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 5: So that that is that is true. The research really 168 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 5: supports that. I think that that piece around the seventy 169 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 5: eight percent of Aussies who who see national news publishing 170 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 5: as that trusted news source is really important to us, 171 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 5: really important to the industry, and that the you know 172 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 5: that that thirty six percent of of trustworthiness on those 173 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 5: social influences. 174 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 4: That sort of speaks for itself. It speaks volumes for 175 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 4: that audience. 176 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: Well, it does get us to this very interesting conundrum 177 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: around trust more broadly, and Gary Vaynerchuk's warning that we 178 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: won't believe any video andin it in a couple of 179 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: years without perhaps the blockchain as an authenticity ledger. But 180 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: that's way off, right, ash And and Laura you pipeing you 181 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: too when you're ready, But it's way off. You're already 182 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: seeing trust, seeing trust move in terms of behavior of 183 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: the likes of gen Z. We've mentioned at the top 184 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: sites from the top points. What are the examples, What 185 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: are you seeing with gen Z and what do you 186 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: make of vyner Chuck's move to the blockchain? 187 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: Is the great messiah? 188 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: Yes, it could well become, you know, the the core 189 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: platform for provenance. What we have brands that are really 190 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 3: trusted and enduring now and so it's a really quick 191 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 3: and easy way for consumers to check whether something is 192 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: as verifiable and trusted now sore pre the blockchain coming 193 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 3: at us. That is definitely something you know that consumers 194 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 3: using already, they'll choose the you know, the easiest way 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 3: to get from from question to answer. And so that's 196 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: you know, really playing to our strengths. And there is 197 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: talking about before it's and you know, we've seen it 198 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 3: with our audiences. It's not unusual for us. Perhaps we 199 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 3: haven't been very good at communicating that to advertisers who 200 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 3: have this misguided belief that we don't have audiences anymore 201 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 3: at scale, and that's absolutely not the truth. 202 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 5: One of the things we sort of talk about internally 203 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 5: here is that professional journalism is one of the few 204 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 5: places left on the Internet with editorial accountability. So blockchain 205 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 5: or not, we've got you know, we're held to account 206 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 5: if we publish something incorrectly, not just by the broader public, 207 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 5: but our readers will hold us to account. 208 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,959 Speaker 4: You know, we've got let alone share holders. 209 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 5: And so that that I think, in lieu of a 210 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 5: blockchain tech, that is the piece that keeps us producing 211 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,719 Speaker 5: verified content day in and day out, and that's not 212 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 5: going to change anytime soon, no matter what happens with 213 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 5: the technology. 214 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 3: Well, I think if you look at a specific audience again, 215 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 3: gen Z they are voracious news consumers and that probably 216 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 3: has been a really surprising stack that's come out of 217 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 3: this research that they are more likely than Gen x's 218 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 3: or boomers to be consuming a range of news media. 219 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 3: So you know, fifty six percent are using more than 220 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 3: five news brands compared to thirty nine percent for those 221 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 3: age forty five to sixty four, which has come from 222 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 3: the News Nation report. So that says that they are 223 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 3: absolutely our next cohort subscribers, and they do have a 224 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: higher propensity to pay because they have grown up paying 225 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 3: for content in a digital format, so they're used to 226 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:23,359 Speaker 3: paying for subscriptions to access content. That's a really exciting 227 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 3: and healthy place for journalism in Australia and it's to 228 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 3: me it's one of the most positive pieces that has 229 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 3: come out of this research and should give all journalists 230 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: something some peace of mind and that they can sleep 231 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 3: and rest easy at night because people will will continue 232 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 3: forever to want to know what's going on from a 233 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 3: trusted journalist, right. 234 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: And I guess the big question here though, to both 235 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: Laura and Ashley is is so what is the market missing. 236 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: Is the market missing something here because it is not 237 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: the perception. I would argue that the broader industry has 238 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: on gen Z and how they behave, how they're consuming media. 239 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: So what's happening with gen Z on that front then, 240 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: and what's happening with the market does this seems to 241 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: be a bit of a gap. 242 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 6: I think one of the misconceptions potentially is around the 243 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:20,359 Speaker 6: fact that that that gen zs are on social platforms 244 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 6: and that that is the only news source because it 245 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 6: is also a new source that they're that they're relying on. 246 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 5: But this that's why the News Nation report is so important. 247 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 5: It's tod it's to debunk that, like we need to 248 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 5: we need to talk about it more because not only 249 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 5: are we talking about you know, brand safety, which will 250 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 5: which we'll touch on, but I think it's that gen Z's. 251 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 7: Are by and large, as Laura said, voraciously consuming news 252 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 7: and we need to be where they are, and if 253 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 7: that's in podcasts or news sites or the social platforms, 254 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 7: then that's where we need to distribute our content. 255 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 5: And for media buyers, it's that you also need to 256 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 5: be on all of those channels as well, not just 257 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 5: singularly in one place where they might be because we're 258 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 5: seen by the data that that is not actually correct. 259 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's an interesting piece actually that's come out from 260 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 3: Mark Ritson where he has analyzed his own business through 261 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 3: market Max modeling and with newton X. And he wanted 262 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 3: to do that because he thought he had some inherent 263 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 3: buyers towards some media channels. And he also wanted to, 264 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 3: I guess see if he could debunk the econometrics and 265 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 3: this fascination and fixation on efficiency and rather than actually 266 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 3: on effectiveness. And so his gut was telling them that 267 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 3: Meta wasn't delivering and not so prizingly his social platform 268 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 3: team wasn't agreed with her. So again, what is the 269 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 3: source of the data? And Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, 270 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 3: you know, so I think it's again just putting that 271 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 3: lens across any analysis that you're doing. 272 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 4: But what he. 273 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: Found was that, you know, Meta was absolutely not an 274 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 3: effective channel for his business and it may be for 275 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 3: many other businesses, but for his selling his many MBAs, 276 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 3: it wasn't effective. 277 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: And so. 278 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: From this study, marketers and advertisers and agencies, it's really 279 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 3: an opportunity to take a step back analyze the information 280 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 3: and the report, but also just remember that humans are 281 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: consuming a whole range of media and the reasons that 282 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 3: you're choosing a channel is does it have an audience 283 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: that matches either your current or ID your customer and 284 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 3: has it got scale? You know, it's a can you 285 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 3: deliver an ROI on your campaign? What does the audience 286 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 3: do in that environment? Is it a leaning environment? Are 287 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 3: they wasting time and scrolling? And because engagement obviously drives 288 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 3: intent and does your brand fit the brand of the channel. 289 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 3: So none of these are new pieces of information or 290 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: new thoughts or new thinking that you would give to 291 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: any type of campaign. I think what's happened is that 292 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 3: the myth and the that Ashley was talking about before 293 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 3: is that ad agencies have been fixated on their efficiency 294 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 3: and not their effectiveness and are they measuring what matters? 295 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: Ashally, in terms of what Laura's talking about there with 296 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: the market and gen Z, what's the problem and you know, 297 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: how big is the audience that you viewing is being 298 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: missed in a gen Z context because news publishing is 299 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: not seeing to be relevant for them, or maybe some 300 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: other issues as. 301 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 5: Well, Just to build on what Laura was saying in 302 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 5: that We've also conducted some research actually for our TV business. 303 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 4: But it applies because it's about marketers. 304 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 5: And what's important to them, and it's ROI over efficiency, 305 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 5: and I think we're we're seeing that rhetoric a little 306 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 5: bit more across the whole media buying landscape. 307 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 4: But we are still in this in this phase of 308 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 4: efficiency rules the roost. 309 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 5: And and when you've got efficiency coupled with digital media, 310 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 5: you've you've also got the brand safety you know, ad 311 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 5: blocking or auto blocking of ads that's then playing into this. 312 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 4: And so with that, you know, people are calling it 313 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 4: a blunt instrument. 314 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 5: I don't don't necessarily think that's the right the right term, 315 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 5: but I do think that these this technology was introduced 316 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 5: to protect brands in some of the more unreliable and 317 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 5: unpredictable social platforms back in sort of the twenty tens 318 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 5: twenty twelves, and. 319 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 4: It hasn't really been it's set and forget from then. 320 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: So you're saying it's carrying the brand safety sort of 321 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: rules boundaries that you're saying were set for social have 322 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: been carried across to other channels that are irrelevant to 323 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: things like news media. 324 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, under the guise of efficiency and effectiveness, and I 325 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 5: think that that you know, over the last ten years, 326 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 5: we've moved from that race to the bottom on a 327 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 5: CPM and we are more about you know, that intent 328 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 5: and that engagement. And you only get that when people 329 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 5: are spending time on a site as with intent, turning 330 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 5: up to that site with intent rather than just passively scrolling, 331 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 5: and coupled you've got that sort of mind state in 332 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 5: a consumer. Coupled with this the ad blocking technology that 333 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 5: just means you're leaving impressions on the on the floor 334 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 5: and we're seeing that. I mean, I think in the 335 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 5: report we sort of identified that with the US election 336 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 5: coverage there was a misclassification around terrorism and that blocked 337 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 5: you know, five thousand ads from Australian news media sites. 338 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 5: So that's audiences who are wanting to engage with new sites. 339 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 4: That's people who are probably going to. 340 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 8: Buy cars and are probably going to go on holidays 341 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 8: and purely buy that key word blocking technology we've got, 342 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 8: we've got missed opportunity to reach you know, influential. 343 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: Including those fifteen to thirty year old you talk about 344 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: the gen z is are who are consuming this stuff. 345 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 5: They're coming to five different sites to validate what they've 346 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 5: seen on social So you know, if. 347 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 7: That that's one thousand impressions the site, so you. 348 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: Know, can you quantify how big is this problem? Though? 349 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: How because this you know, when you talk about say, 350 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: news sites being blocked because of keywords and suppression lists 351 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: and so forth for proximity or adjacency to the content, 352 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: think against dangerous. That's the stuff you're saying is attributed 353 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: to socials, that's carried across But how big is the 354 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: problem now? Then for for nine and news or for 355 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: news media full stop. 356 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 3: It's significant. And really that's because again if you think 357 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 3: about the source of the information, which is that companies 358 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 3: who are ad blocking, who have this tech are of 359 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 3: course going to continue to say that there's a huge 360 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 3: brand risk and therefore you need to use us. And 361 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: the monetization model of those companies is based on the 362 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 3: number of keywords that they block in part, not in totality, 363 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 3: but in part. Therefore it's in their interests to continue 364 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 3: to have that resk and that fear. What we're finding 365 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 3: and how for example, video is showing up in a 366 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 3: news publish, a website or environment, is that the way 367 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 3: that ad blocking tools are working is punishing every video 368 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 3: that plays in an auto play at the end of 369 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 3: a video, even of the keyword blocking. The so called 370 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: not safe brand safe keyword was potentially identified in the 371 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 3: first video, so it definitely is harming an advertisers opportunity 372 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 3: to reach audiences who are wanting to buy products and 373 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 3: services that you may be delivering. So it is significant. 374 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 3: It will iterate, no doubt over time. But I think 375 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 3: there is no basis for saying that there is a 376 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 3: negative impact on brand by sitting in either a soft 377 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 3: or a hard news environment. 378 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: Well, James be this one's a live issue for you. 379 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: I guess what are you seeing in market on this 380 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: on this front and what are advertisers missing on some 381 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: of these brand safety programs? 382 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: Do you do? You accept the premise here? 383 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: You know there is some oversight and some perhaps bias 384 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: in the system, will self interest in the system perhaps. 385 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 9: Thanks Bauld, it's great to be here. 386 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 10: I guess if I just start with why this is 387 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 10: an important topic for us because the Trade Desk is 388 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 10: not an ad blocker, but the Trade Desk is the 389 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 10: world's largest independent media buying platform and each year on 390 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 10: behalf of the brands that we work with We invest 391 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 10: billions of dollars into premium content, publishing and journalism, and 392 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 10: we understand that the investments that we make represent a 393 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 10: really significant funding source for great Australian journalism and content 394 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 10: and we take that responsibility incredibly seriously. But when it 395 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 10: comes to the debate around news or no news, premium 396 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 10: or not premium, block or not block, our interest in 397 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 10: this really comes down to performance, and we've got very 398 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 10: strong conviction the premium content and premium context delivers better 399 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 10: results for advertisers, and the results are there to speak 400 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 10: for themselves if people want to go looking for them. 401 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 9: Now. 402 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 10: I'm a pretty simple but our Chief Revenue Office has 403 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 10: an expression that marketing can never be in the green 404 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 10: when the business itself is in the red, and that 405 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 10: just really resonates with me because I think there's a 406 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 10: playbook that people have been rolling out in recent years 407 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 10: that has resulted in Wall Gardens swallowing up huge sways 408 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 10: of advertiser investment and doubling down on that playbook I 409 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 10: think comes with a really significant risk because there's not 410 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 10: a lot of businesses that you speak to at the 411 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 10: moment where you ask them how things are going and 412 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 10: their immediate reaction is like business is going great, So 413 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 10: there's something wrong with the playbook that has been undermining 414 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 10: or underlining our. 415 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 9: Industry for a number of years. 416 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 10: So I think if we take a step back specifically 417 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 10: and kind of talk about the ad blocking issue as 418 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 10: to why people might be blocking news content. I mean, 419 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 10: ultimately it's out of some kind of fear that their 420 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 10: ads might run alongside stories that are deemed negative or controversial. 421 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 10: But the research shows, and our research shows that news 422 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 10: inventry is generally safe for brands and offers some really 423 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 10: distinct advantages that some of the other guests. 424 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 9: Have already spoken about. 425 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 10: But I think the issue emerges when marketers implement overly broad, 426 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 10: outdated blocklists that can cut out really significant and engaged 427 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 10: audiences that are otherwise brand safe and highly performed in 428 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 10: driving outcomes for brands. 429 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: James, do you just out of interest? Do you see 430 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: that though? 431 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: What do you see in the trend line with that, 432 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: as in, what's coming through your platform that has that 433 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: has blocks on it as suppression list on it? 434 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 2: Is it rising increasing? 435 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: Is it is it sort of percolating down to sort 436 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: of some sectors like news media. What is the overall 437 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: sense of what you're getting with these with these blockless. 438 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 10: Look I think it's relatively steady in terms of its usage. 439 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 10: But you know, there's some really obvious examples and case 440 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 10: studies that have been spoken about around the world as 441 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 10: to where this has gone wrong that just kind of 442 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 10: double click on the absurdity of some of it. I mean, 443 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 10: Time magazine spoken publicly Taylor Swift was named Person of 444 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 10: the Year in twenty twenty three, but some advertisers were 445 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 10: nervous about advertising alongside that cover story because it used 446 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 10: the word feminist, which blocked that content, which is crazy. 447 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 10: You know, there was another piece that there's a Time 448 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 10: piece on the James Webb telescope which was flagged for 449 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 10: mentioning the phrase the violent death of a star. That 450 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 10: content got blocked. The Independent of the UK has hadding 451 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 10: articles on Wimbledon and tennis blocked for using the words 452 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 10: like shot and smash. So this isn't to say that, 453 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 10: you know, brand safety tools aren't important and they aren't 454 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 10: doing a good job where they're applied in an intelligent way, 455 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 10: they play a really important role in our ecosystem. But 456 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 10: it's just saying that the blunt application of them is 457 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 10: really limiting advertisers from accessing highly performed inventory, which isn't 458 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 10: good for anybody. 459 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: Well, the great points, James, and I think both you 460 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: perhaps have some studies around this, and certainly Laura and 461 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: Ashley have this new report out on the issue which 462 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: says that adjacency or the ruboff in around environment is 463 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: actually positive. This will be the news brands people saying 464 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: it's positive and news environments. I guess you could talk 465 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: about more broadly in premium though, James. But the issue 466 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: here is so maybe Laura or Ashley, what is the 467 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: research you've started. I know it's in your report saying 468 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: that actually being in these news environments and there's not 469 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: a negative spin off for it, is that right? 470 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 4: Yeah? 471 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely, the news environment. I mean the thing about consumers 472 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 3: in a news environment, and what's different about it is 473 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 3: that they slow down and they limit multitasking. So you've 474 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 3: got someone that's engaged. There's six point four times high 475 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 3: brand recall for every second spent on a page recall 476 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 3: and prosed by fifty eight percent and three and zero 477 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 3: point five times intend to seek the information. But I 478 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 3: think also you come back to the fact that we 479 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 3: have huge audiences at scale. If the audience if the 480 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 3: environments were not brand safe. I'm still actually getting my 481 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: jaw off the ground by seeing the word feminist as 482 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 3: a keyword that was deemed not safe. But moving on, 483 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 3: just yeah, it's blown me away. But if they were 484 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: such awful environments that people didn't want to partake in 485 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 3: and spend time in, then we wouldn't have huge audiences 486 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 3: coming to them. We wouldn't have huge numbers of subscribers. 487 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 3: So again, the logic and your gut says, there's an 488 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 3: audience that that's engaged in its certain type of content 489 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 3: and those audiences are right across the spectrum, right across Australia, 490 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: different socio groups and also dife groups. So again, to me, 491 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 3: that is the that's the core piece to come back to. 492 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 3: James has loads of stats from the campaigns that he's 493 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 3: working with clients on and he's seen a positive uplift 494 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 3: and advertisers who put campaigns into our news environments. So 495 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 3: go to companies like James that are independent and ask 496 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 3: for the facts rather than putting a whole advertising spend 497 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 3: and environments or outside environments that you haven't really locked 498 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 3: under the hood on and understood what they're like in 499 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. 500 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: Well, actually, have you had any feminist keywords blocked in 501 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: recent in recent iOS? I'd love to ask for something 502 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: even more interesting would be great, But your thoughts on 503 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: that issue around safety and brand safe environments. 504 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 5: I mean, not feminism, but we did have the Jess 505 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 5: Box or the coverage of her at the Olympics and 506 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 5: her having uh you know, killer killer ability was blocked 507 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 5: from from a lot of advertising because of because of 508 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 5: that sentiment. So I think I think the key for 509 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 5: us is that those the tools are there for a purpose, 510 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 5: and as long as we're reading contextual placement, we can 511 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 5: read semantics of an article, and that the you know 512 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 5: the advantage of AI being in this ecosystem is that 513 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 5: we can now enhance those tools to read the content 514 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 5: and apply contextual ad block on it and and and 515 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 5: including those publishers signals in and amongst the mix of 516 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 5: ad blocking. Then then responsible journalism doesn't get you know, 517 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 5: it doesn't get penalized, and and it shouldn't be treated 518 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 5: the same way as as sort of unsafe or unmoderated content, 519 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 5: because news shouldn't be avoided. 520 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 4: It's something that. 521 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 5: You know, we need as a as a as a civilization, 522 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 5: we need we need journalism, we need news, and we 523 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 5: just need a way that we can distinguish between trusted 524 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 5: journalism and genuinely unsafe environments for advertisers. So there's a 525 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 5: role to play. We just we just think, you know, 526 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 5: like like beasy sort of outlined, It just. 527 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 4: Requires a little bit more despuying on the buyside. 528 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 10: I think one of the things that doesn't get spoken 529 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 10: about in relation to this discussion is ad experiences as well. 530 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 10: So aside from just the credibility and trust in the 531 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 10: context that you're advertising within premium news environments, premium news 532 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 10: publishers generally invest pretty heavily in creating premium out and 533 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 10: content experiences as well. So if you think about think 534 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 10: things like liner ad loads, lower ad refresh rates, more 535 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 10: user initiated videos versus AutoPlay, all of these things have 536 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 10: got a positive impact on the way a consumer interacts 537 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 10: with advertising and the resulting ROI on the ad itself. 538 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 10: So it's important not just to kind of think about 539 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 10: this through the lens of contextual relevance, but also just 540 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 10: in terms of positive add experiences and the impact that 541 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 10: that can have on delivering an outcome for a brand. 542 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 2: How do you think and it is it happening? James? 543 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: But how does this conundrum get cracked in the market 544 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: for exactly the scenarios you've talked about, what Ashley's talked 545 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: about and what Law has talked about with some sort 546 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: of jaw dropping as laws are sort of examples of 547 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: how words can your keywords can block an entire schedule. 548 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: What's the fix on this? 549 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: Do you think? 550 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 9: Yeah? 551 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 10: I think the answers are there and the results are 552 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 10: there that demonstrate performance and the performance uplift that comes 553 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 10: from advertising in premium context like news and content experiences. 554 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 9: People just need to go looking for it. 555 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: Well, there's very very interesting observations in Grant anecdotes here 556 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: and some good dict throwing up against. 557 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 2: Challenging the industry. 558 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: But just wrap this up with maybe a take or 559 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: two two three key takeouts practical epis if you like, 560 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: on on what the industry should be doing about trust 561 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: and brand safety. James, you first your final thoughts, I. 562 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 9: Would just say that it works. 563 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 10: Like using the trade Best News Navigator tool, we found 564 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 10: that brands investing through that tool so or an eight 565 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 10: percent lowest cost per action, nine percent lower click through rate, 566 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 10: and only a one percent increase in CPM. So I 567 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 10: would say, dig in, ask questions, but the results are there. 568 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ashley, your final takes on this, Yeah, I would. 569 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 5: I would just say, like I invite advertisers, agencies and 570 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 5: clients to conduct some experiments to prove it out if 571 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 5: they're if they're unsure, working with the lives of Baysy 572 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 5: in his team and us directly to experiment to test 573 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,239 Speaker 5: the theory so that we can actually run alike by 574 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 5: light campaign and then and see let the results speak 575 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 5: for themselves. 576 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 4: But if everyone keeps talking about trusted environments, then let's 577 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 4: let's show show up where we're We're saying that I 578 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 4: think we need to. We can prove that we can 579 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 4: deliver the real business outcomes that clients are after, but 580 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 4: they just need to show up and start asking those questions. 581 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: Bret points and Laura take it home and we can 582 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: wrap this up and have some. 583 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 2: People buy some more news placements. 584 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,879 Speaker 3: About that sounds good. So my final points would be, look, 585 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 3: in a world where trust is a core currency, how 586 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 3: are you showing up for your customers? You know when 587 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 3: truth matters, Australians are turning to news and trust creates 588 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 3: attention and therefore you should be part of that. So 589 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 3: if news isn't in your media, Max, I'd be asking 590 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 3: why not? And do the reasons stack up? You know, 591 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 3: come and talk to some news media companies and ask 592 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 3: about their customers. What are they saying, how are they 593 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 3: growing customers? You know, maybe there's some insights there that 594 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: can give you a jump on your competitors, because if 595 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 3: you're all doing the same thing, you're all swimming with 596 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 3: the school. So if you want to make a difference 597 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 3: for your brand, for your business, for your client, then 598 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 3: do something differently. 599 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: Great stuff, well, Laura Maxwell, Ashley Thomas, and James Bays. 600 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for the sort of I guess 601 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: the jaw dropping feminist anecdotes we had there and beyond, 602 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: but great talking. Let's hope that maybe this stuff starts 603 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: to land in the market with some change in behavior. 604 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining. 605 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 4: Stay safe, Thanks Paul, Thanks thanks Paul. 606 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: This three audio edition was presented by Paul McIntyre, producer 607 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 1: Alissa Partington. Music by Matt Dwyer. For more episodes, download 608 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,240 Speaker 1: the iheartapp and search three audio edition, or the same 609 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: for any of the major podcast networks.