1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: So we know. The Australian Medical Association of the Northern 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Territory is calling on the Chief Minister to abandon the 3 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: proposed trial of autonomous pharmacists prescribing, warning that the model 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: is driven by business interests rather than evidence based patient 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: care and is going to leave territorians worse off. Now, 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: the AMA's Northern Territory President, Doctor john's Orbis warning that 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: the trial, which was heavily lobbied by the pharmacy Gill, 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: would fundamentally compromise the integrity of the Northern Territory's primary 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: health system. Doctr Zorbis joins me on the show. 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Morning Katie, Morning to listeners. 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: Good to have you in the studio this morning. John, 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: Now tell me the Northern Territory government says that this 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: trial is going to improve access to care. And I 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: know that for a lot of us listening, we're probably thinking, well, 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: if it means we can access our script a little 16 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: bit more easily, wouldn't that be a good thing? But 17 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: why does the AMA believe that it could actually make 18 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: things worse for patients. 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we would say it would increase access to 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: unsafe care. So this trial and this is happening all 21 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: over Australia, heavily lobbied for by the Pharmacy Guild. And 22 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: let's be clear on who the Pharmacy Guild are. They 23 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: are business owners. They are pharmacy owners, not pharmacists. They 24 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: don't represent that's the Pharmaic Pharmaceutical Society Australia. The Pharmacy 25 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 2: Guild represents pharmacies and they've lobbied for a number of 26 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 2: common conditions UTI blood pressure, asthma, the contraceptive pill to 27 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: be able to be prescribed and dispensed by a pharmacist. 28 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: We have a lot of issues with this concept just 29 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: from the get go. I mean, the person who owns 30 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: the business who is going to be making the profit 31 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: of dispensing the medication they've prescribed, is the same same entity, 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: same person. Huge conflict of interest, huge diagnostic blind spots. 33 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: I mean gps don't just come out of UNI and 34 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: they're ready to go. Doctors. You know, even if whatever 35 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: specialty you pick, whether it's general practice on eurosurgery, you're 36 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: still talking ten plus years of training. And to think 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: that something like a UTI, which is jokingly being referred 38 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: to as uncomplicated UTI, we can talk about that that 39 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: you could work out how to treat for that and 40 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: all the risks associated with the wrong treatment in a 41 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: two and a half hour webinar, which is the training 42 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: that we're talking about that's being provided is just mind blowing. 43 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: So I know that. You know, obviously others would argue 44 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: that pharmacists are highly trained and that you know that 45 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: they're able to sort of, you know, to listen to 46 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: somebody's concerns and work out what medication they might need. 47 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: But from what you are saying, it's a lot, it's 48 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: a lot bigger than that, you know, with some of 49 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: these different conditions or ailments that we're talking about, like 50 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: it does require going to see a GP. 51 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: So you know, I'll use myself as an example. I'm 52 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: trained as an emergency physician and an intensive care specialist. 53 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: I would make a terrible surgeon. You don't come to 54 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: me F and E replacement, right. Pharmacists are exceptional medicine 55 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: specialists and managers of medications. And you know, pharmacists located 56 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: in general practices in hospitals, working alongside doctors and nurses, 57 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: are some of the most essential parts of our healthcare teams. 58 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: We're not anti pharmacist. This is not a terf for 59 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 2: which is what the Guild will tell you. You know, six 60 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: months ago it was the AMA, the Doctor's Association, calling 61 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: for improved conditions for pharmacists in the NT. So we've 62 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: put our money where our mouth is. We're pro pharmacists. 63 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: Pharmacists are essential, but the idea that a pharmacists can 64 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 2: replace a doctor is a sugar hit. It's just convenience. 65 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: It's not a safe practice if people just left to 66 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: autonomously prescribe what they want in it with limited training. 67 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, doctor's orbis I totally you know, I understand what 68 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: you're saying. I guess for some of us. So it's 69 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: so bloody hard to get an appointment with a GP, 70 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: and then it's really expensive, right, so you know you 71 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: might think to yourself, oh, if I need my I 72 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: don't know, if I need my asthma medication or something, 73 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm thinking out loud. You know, if 74 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: you need something renewed, it's sometimes easier if you're able 75 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: to just go into the pharmacist and do that rather 76 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: than having to book into your GP, wondering how long 77 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: it's going to take to get there, then ending up 78 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: going to somebody who's maybe not your usual GP, and 79 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: you know it can be a bit of a rigmarole. 80 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that the question territorial should 81 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: be asking of government there is like what I would 82 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: say to everybody listening, is userve a doctor? Right. The 83 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: reason we even have this problem is because we've underfunded 84 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: general practice and our health service for twenty thirty years now. 85 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: We've seen this huge divide in health costs versus health funding, 86 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: and now we're in this situation where it's impossible to 87 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: see who you need to see when you want to 88 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: see them. The hospitals are full, the nursing homes are full. 89 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: Gps take ages to get into. This is not a result. 90 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: You know. The answer to this is not well, let's 91 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 2: just find the second, third, fourth best thing and make 92 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: healthcare less safe. The answer is fund the system that works. 93 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: And so is that the I mean, is that what 94 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: we need to be doing here? Because if this model 95 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: isn't the answer, what should the government be doing instead? 96 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, with the way medicines work in Australia, we 97 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 2: already have a poison schedule. It's harmonized across the country. 98 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: You would have seen it on your medicines. You know, 99 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: you can buy a parasitam or in the supermarket as 100 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: a schedule too, but you'll notice it's a smaller box 101 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: than the one you can buy from a pharmacy. Now, 102 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: we already have this divide Schedule four needs a prescription, 103 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: see a doctor. We've got a system, so if we 104 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: can identify safe things to do, we can move medicines 105 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: between schedules. We can do that under the safety of 106 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 2: the Therapeutic Goods Association. Let's do it properly with the specialists, doctors, pharmacists, 107 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: whoever needs to be at that table to make those 108 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: decisions to make things more accessible where it is safe 109 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: to do. In the meantime, what we need to be 110 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: doing is funding our system properly. You know, let's make 111 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: sure we're putting money into general practice. We've got two 112 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: urgent care centers opening soon, and while they won't be 113 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 2: the cure to bed block in our hospitals, they're certainly 114 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: going to improve after ours access. We've seen a rise 115 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: in the number of bolt billing episodes in the Northern 116 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: Territory since the boult billing incentives have changed, and look, 117 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: there's some problems with that as well, but it has 118 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 2: decreased the amount of money that people are having to 119 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: pay to see their GP in the territory, which these 120 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: things taking exactly, and these things take time, they're hard 121 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 2: to do, they're unpopular, but they change the healthcare system. 122 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: Sugar hits like this product won't make it, you know, 123 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: won't make it a healthier place to be. 124 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: No, look at this a lot on the agenda. You 125 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: and I are usually talking about how busy the hospital is, 126 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: and certainly I don't think that's changed too much, particularly 127 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: as we head into an easter long weekend. But across 128 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: my desk has just come a press release from the 129 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: Australian Nursing and mid with Free Federation. So bearing in 130 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: mind you know you're with the Australian Medical Association, but 131 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: I think it's one worth mentioning to you because they've 132 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: said that this week they attended the emergency department in 133 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: Royal Dahwin Hospital and we're told that staff are working 134 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: in conditions where threats, abuse and violence are not isolated incidents, 135 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: but routine. Now they say that they've heard directly from 136 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: members that incidents are so frequent that they're no longer 137 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: reported because the reporting system is time consuming and does 138 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: not lead to meaningful change. That's mind blowing. 139 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, we would be in lockstep with that release. I 140 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: haven't read it myself, but you know, members have been 141 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 2: coming to us for years now talking about conditions, especially 142 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 2: in emergency departments. But right across the healthcare system, this 143 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: is not a unique Darwin problem. It is a problem 144 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: across Australia. We're seeing service workers, not even in healthcare 145 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: right increasing levels of assault, threats, anger, bullying. And this 146 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 2: isn't you know, small, This isn't small potatoes. We're talking 147 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: about people getting hid and ending up in intensive care. 148 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: It's definitely on the rise. It's definitely a problem. The 149 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: more crowded and difficult our healthcare system gets, the more 150 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: we're going to see if this type of thing, and 151 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: that's going to lead to a system in which people 152 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: don't you know what, my life and me being here 153 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: for my children is more important than me coming to work. 154 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: Which is just terrible that it's at that point. But 155 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: also I just think if you're not even you know, 156 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: then if you're going well, I'm not even going to 157 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: go through the process of putting in a complaint about 158 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: this because it's happening so often and it takes so 159 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: long to sort out. That's unbelievable. 160 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, again, not a unique day on problem risk management 161 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: systems in Australia in health care, they're like something straight 162 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: out of Utopia or yes, minister, like we're talking ten 163 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: to fifteen minutes to just lodge a simple record of 164 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: being assaulted. Now, who if you're a busy nurse or 165 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: a busy doctor in the emergency department who has ten minutes, 166 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 2: they don't have time for lunch, let alone ten to 167 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes to lodge a complaint, which will ultimately get 168 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: you know, filtered down and downgraded and go through committees 169 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: and it becomes this sort of enters this bureaucratic sludge, 170 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: doesn't fix the problem. So when the A and m 171 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: F say that, you know, this doesn't lead to systemic change, 172 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: we try and do what we can't, but it's not 173 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: getting better. 174 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: John tell me, you know, because sometimes people sort of hear, 175 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, me read out a line from a pressure 176 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: ase and they think, oh, okay, there you know, there's 177 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: more assaults or there's more situations where there's threats, there's abuse, 178 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: there's violence, But what are we talking here? Like, are 179 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: we talking about nurses being punched in the face and 180 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: doctors being punched in the face. 181 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: I'm one of them. In my career, I've been physically 182 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: assaulted twice, and I've lost track of how many times 183 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: I've been you know, verbally assaulted or spadad or you know, 184 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: And that's not ideal. I don't It's disgusting. It's disgusting, 185 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: you know, why would anybody go to work like that? 186 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: And look, that says a lot about the nurses and 187 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: doctors who do go to work in our health system. 188 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: A huge amount of respect for people who show up 189 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: day after day. Everybody's got a limit, right, Nobody deserves 190 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 2: to be assaulted at work, Absolutely nobody, whether you're a 191 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: doctor you know, in our hospital, or whether you're someone 192 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 2: here in this studio. You know, nobody should have to 193 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: put up with that. 194 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Hey, just a very quick one before 195 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: I let you go. We know that there's been a 196 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: warning around dip theoria across the Northern Territory. Why sash exactly. 197 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, something that had been relegated the 198 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 2: history books because we've done such a good job with vaccination. 199 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: Dip theory is present in the environment, there's an outbreak 200 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: at the moment. We've seen an increasing cases since twenty 201 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: twenty two. Before that we saw maybe less than six 202 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 2: cases a year, you know, very very rare. We have 203 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 2: a very effective vaccine for it. If you were vaccinated. 204 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: For the most part, it's a mild disease. If you're unvaccinated, 205 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: it can be fatal, leading to a sudden loss of 206 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: your earway and a fatality rate of up to sixteen percent. 207 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: Really really horrible stuff. It manifest as either a skin 208 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 2: infection or a respiratory infection. What I would say to 209 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: you know, Territorians, this isn't like COVID, and the Center 210 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: for Disease Control here has a very good handle. The 211 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 2: messaging is good. Go to your authorities and pay attention 212 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: to the press releases that come out. In terms of 213 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: your own health, Go and see your GP. Have a 214 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: conversation about vaccinations, especially booster shots. So these aren't a 215 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 2: set and forget type of vaccine, and there are certain 216 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: subgroups of people that do need a booster to maintain 217 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: that safety against something like diphtheria. Everybody situation is different. 218 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 2: See your GP, have that conversation, work out if you 219 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: need a booster or not well. 220 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: Doctor John Zorbers, the President of the Australian Medical Association 221 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory, always appreciate your time. Thanks 222 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: so much for joining us this morning. 223 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: Thanks Gadie, thank you.