1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Family's podcast. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 2: once answers. 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: Now Today on the Happy Family Podcast, Kylie, we've got 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: a big conversation. 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 2: Hang on, hang on, don't hang on. Today is a 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: bit of a big deal. 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Yes, he's nearly fifty. 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: You turn fifty. 10 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: No, no, I'll be fifty. 11 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: Lovely way to bring it up. 12 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: We'll play doctor Justin Coulson. I knew you were going 13 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: to say something. I didn't expect it straight away, but 14 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say something. It's your birthday, 15 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: but I'm not turning fifty. 16 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: Well you're close. 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: I am close, but I'm not very very close. All right, 18 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: let's move on with the podcast. Thanks so much for 19 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: doing that forty nine today. As I was saying before, 20 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: I was so rudely interrupted by this whipper snapper over 21 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: here in the corner. Today, I'm happy on this podcasts. 22 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: It's my birthday, I mean sorry, not today, and they 23 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: have your family podcasts. We're having a conversation about consent 24 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. Number one, the Australian Government's 25 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: new campaign Consent Can't Wait, is out and about. You 26 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: can find the website, which we will link to in 27 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: the show notes literally consent dot gov dot AU. I'm 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: an ambassador for the Consent Can't Wait campaign, and I've 29 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: recorded a whole bunch of commercials that you've seen around 30 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: the place, Consent Can't Wait. It's a really important conversation. 31 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: Most people agree that consent is key to healthy sexual experiences, 32 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: but a lot of people struggle to understand what consent means. 33 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: I know, we think we know what's going on, but 34 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: there's much more to consent than what most people know. 35 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: So today a conversation about the nuances of consent and 36 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: specifically how we can raise these important issues with our children, 37 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: with the kids and teenagers in our lives. And we're 38 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: going to go through a stage by stage, Kylie, So 39 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: you guide us from stage to stage, and I'll add 40 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: the main ideas. And I'm sure you'll have plenty to 41 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: say because you've helped me to raise in fact, primarily 42 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: you've raised our six daughters. What do you want to start? 43 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: I guess at the beginning, well, let's start with zero 44 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: to five. This is in my mind, this is a 45 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: little bit of a gray area when it comes to consent. 46 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: What do you mean by gray Area. 47 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 2: I think that there is definitely a wide perception that 48 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: as young children that it's okay to kiss and cuddle 49 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 2: and all of those things because they're gorgeous, right, pinch 50 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: their cheeks. 51 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, not just that. But if you listen to the 52 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: old folks talk back radio, what you'll often hear is 53 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: people getting upset when conversations around this come up. They're like, 54 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: they're my grandkids. I'll kiss them and cuddle them if 55 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: I want. 56 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 57 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: So, I guess the easiest way that I would talk 58 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: about this is consent starts at the beginning with conversations 59 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: around body safety and what consent is and boundaries. The 60 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: other one that always gets people upset is the whole 61 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: nappy changing thing or the tickling kids or rough housing 62 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: with kids, that sort of thing. So let's go through 63 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: each of those. First off, I want to start with 64 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: tickling and rough housing. This one really gets people up 65 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: in arms. If the kids are saying stop or don't, 66 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: then just say okay and stop. And what happens, of course, 67 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: is that the children, about three seconds later, as long 68 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: as the tickling and rough housing was appropriate, about half 69 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: a second lad of to say again again again, like 70 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: they love it, but sometimes it's just too much. And 71 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: when we let them know that if they ask us 72 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: to stop, that we will stop. We're literally teaching them 73 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: that their voice matters, that they have agency, they have power, 74 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: and they can choose for themselves what activities they're involved in, 75 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: what activities they're not involved in. That's the whole idea 76 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: of teaching consents children aged zero to five. It's not 77 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: that you're the same with changing an happy right, the 78 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: idea that you're supposed to ask your child if you 79 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: can change their nappy. I don't think that that's useful, 80 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: especially if your child is pre verbal. 81 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: I was about to say three months, six months. 82 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: That's right. But what you can do is you can 83 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: describe what you're doing and why you're doing it and 84 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: help them to understand that. It's the same with bathtime. Right, 85 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: even before consent became a major issue, I always said 86 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: to the kids, because I used to love bath time. 87 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: I used to love bathing the kids. I loved scrubbing 88 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: them with the I was going to say the scourer, 89 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: that's with the loofer, Sorry, love the loof of their 90 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: back and all that sort of thing. But when it 91 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: came to their private parts. I'd always say, do you 92 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: want to wash your private parts or do you want 93 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: me to and give them the opportunity to have a 94 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: voice and have a choice from the age of like 95 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: two or three or whatever it was. Well, because I'm 96 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: their dad, and I just don't feel like i'm even 97 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: though it's appropriate that they be washed there, I think 98 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: I always thought they needed to have a voice. And 99 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: that's the idea of this. 100 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: You think we can take it to the extreme. 101 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. I do, And I think that's why 102 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: when people do take it to extremes. I think that's 103 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: why the talk back radio lines light up and all 104 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: the grandparents get on and say this is ridiculous and 105 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: what's the world coming to? And back in my day, 106 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: that's where it becomes unhelpful. But when we have a 107 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: really sensible approach to it, and that is I'm going 108 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: to explain to my child what's going on, or to 109 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: the extent that they can choose, I'm going to give 110 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: them every opportunity to use their voice, and I'll honor that. 111 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: It's the same with hugging and kissing. This came up 112 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: with your parents just recently with with our youngest who 113 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: is now ten and she just said, I love hugs. 114 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: I love hugging man, like she was really she was 115 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: so enthusiastic about it. She was so excited about it. 116 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: But your mum, and I'm really impressed by this. Your 117 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: mum has started saying, is it okay if I give 118 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: you a hug? Like she started asking, And it's not 119 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: hard to do it. When you look at your grandkids 120 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: and you say would you like a hug and they 121 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: come running into your arms, you get a pretty clear 122 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: signal that they're okay with a hug. And that's the 123 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: idea of consent. It's about letting kids know that they 124 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: have a voice and that their preferences matter, they should 125 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: be considered. I actually think that it's the height, the 126 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: height of arrogance, the height of rudeness, and the height 127 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: of entitlement when a grandparent says, I don't care if 128 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: you want a hug or not, you're giving me a 129 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: hug like that's inappropriate. And I'm not trying to sound 130 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: like a wowsy here, just by every measure of what 131 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,559 Speaker 1: consent is about, that's simply inappropriate. And so the people 132 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: who are doing this on the talkback radio stations and 133 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: getting upset about it, if they just pause and consider 134 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: how if someone puts their arms around them without consent, 135 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: it feels pretty icky. It feels pretty gross. 136 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: I know growing up it wasn't just me and my family, 137 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: but I was raised in a you be respectful of adults, 138 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 2: and everyone in our circles was deemed family. If they 139 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 2: were close friends, they were an auntie or an uncle, 140 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 2: because that was a respectful way to talk to them 141 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: and acknowledge them. 142 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: A lot of that comes from that kin based traditional 143 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: New Zealand Maori heritage, right, I mean, that's the way 144 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: family is. Everyone is an auntie or an uncle or 145 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: a cousin, and let's face it, they probably are, and 146 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: when you see them, you're supposed to embrace them and 147 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: kiss them and do all of those traditional things. That's 148 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: how it always has been. 149 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: But the challenge for me as a young child was 150 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: most of those people I'd never seen before or I 151 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: see once a year, and so the idea of bringing 152 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: them into my personal space, even as a five year old, out. 153 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: Wrong, Like it didn't really confronting. 154 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 2: I didn't feel comfortable. I didn't You're not my mom, 155 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 2: you're not my dad, You're not someone I trust. This 156 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: is a really tricky space. So for us, as we've 157 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: raised our children, it has always been an acknowledgement no 158 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: one is an auntie and uncle unless they're an auntie 159 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: or uncle for starters. But they've never been forced in 160 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: any way, shape or form to acknowledge them with a 161 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: hugener kiss if it's not what they want to do. 162 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: So if we move forward from our zero to five, 163 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: we're looking at six to maybe thirteen to our early teens. 164 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, primary school, primary school age kids, So this is 165 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: where the consent. I mean, you'll know that with young kids, 166 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: we're not having conversations about consent and intimacy. Yeah, we're 167 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: simply teaching respect and body bround reason. If someone says no, 168 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: it means no, and that kind of thing. It's really 169 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: basic stuff. I don't think there's anything controversial or provocative 170 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: about this. Again, I don't understand why people get that 171 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: upset about it. In terms of primary school, the conversation 172 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: shifts a little bit, primarily because social networks expanded, so 173 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: kids are gonna they're going to know more people. But 174 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: there's also the possibility that's going to be conflict. But 175 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: I want to do this. My friend wants to do that, 176 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: and we've got this conflict here, and consent becomes more 177 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: about social relationships and activity based conversations and that kind 178 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: of thing, healthy friendships and how to just engage respectfully 179 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: with other people. I think at this point we can 180 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: start to teach our kids about verbal and nonverbal communication. 181 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: This is a really powerful way to help kids to 182 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: communicate consent. I like this, I don't like this. Body 183 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: language gives us that insight into how someone's feeling, and 184 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: if we can help kids to tune into what other 185 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: people are showing, that can be really profoundly useful. I 186 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: remember speaking with a colleague of mine some years ago 187 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: who said that when she was about fifteen or sixteen, 188 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: she was on a bus. She was the only person 189 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: on the bus, and a guy got on who was 190 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: probably a young adult, and saw her sitting there, just 191 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: a girl on her own on the bus and literally 192 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: went and sat on the seat beside her, which is 193 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: such a such a power. 194 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 2: I was about to say that big power play. 195 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: Big power play. But if we have the capacity to 196 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: read other people's body language, like she shrank, she moved 197 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: as close to the window as she could, I mean, 198 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: and he sort of what is it when a man. 199 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 2: Spread he clearly he clearly didn't care what. 200 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: She mean totally totally. But the idea is if we 201 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: can teach people to read one another better and have 202 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: some empathy around that, not just the skill of reading 203 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: other people, but the empathy that accompanies that, then we 204 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: can help them to understand the nonverbal elements of consent 205 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: as well. Oh, this person's stiffening up, this person's moving away, 206 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: this person's not making eye contact, this person's looking worried. 207 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: This person and voice is saying yes, but everything about 208 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: their body is screaming no, right. 209 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: And I think that's really what we're looking at here. 210 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: How can we communicate boundaries effectively? Teaching kids to develop 211 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: their identity, to develop a voice, to be willing to 212 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: say no, to think critically out what they see online, 213 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: think about who they're talking to, and to engage respectfully. 214 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: That that's for me, the primary school age sort of stuff. 215 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: So this is a really tricky space, this idea of 216 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: giving our children a voice. For a lot of parents, 217 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: we just want compliance, right, We want them to do 218 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 2: what we ask when we ask them to do it, 219 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: because that makes our life easy. And I know that 220 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: that was the kind of home I was raised in. 221 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 222 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, So when our children reach school age and they 223 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: started having opinions about things, my parents really were taken 224 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: back by that. 225 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: Are you going to stamp that air? 226 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: Because that's not how I was raised. And yes, it 227 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: causes some conflict and contention in your home as you 228 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 2: try to navigate the challenge of your children having a 229 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: voice and telling you they don't want to do something 230 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: you clearly know number one is good for them and 231 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 2: number two needs to be done in order for the 232 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: family to function whatever it is. But I think there 233 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: is so much power. Think about just that friend of 234 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: yours and being on the bus, What a difference it 235 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: would have made to her if she knew that she 236 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: was well within her rights to either ask him to 237 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: move or to stand up, stand up with a way. 238 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, go sit right next to the bus driver, that 239 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: kind of thing. 240 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: And so for me, as a mum of girls, that's 241 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: what I'm trying to achieve. I'm trying to help my 242 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: girls recognize and know that their voice matters number one 243 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: and number two. If they have absolute clarity on who 244 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: they are and who they want to be, then they 245 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: will have confidence in their ability to speak that when 246 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: the time comes. 247 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: So that's a pretty good segue to move into the 248 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: adolescence and secondary school age group. Let's talk about teenagers. 249 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: I've spoken just too many girls. I've spoken to too 250 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: many girls who have told me that they've acquiesced that 251 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: they've gone long when a boy that they've been with 252 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: has put pressure on them to engage in any kind 253 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: of intimacy because they felt like they had to. They 254 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: felt like they couldn't say no, They felt like this 255 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: was how they proved that they loved him. 256 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: The devastation in this, though, is the girl's walk away 257 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 2: feeling guilty. 258 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, the girls. The girls are the ones that walk 259 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: away and they feel like they're dirty or unworthy or 260 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: that or. 261 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: I said yes, so therefore I deserved what I got 262 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: right right. It's a devastating place to be. 263 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: So if we transition into these adolescent years, we start 264 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: to talk about romantic relationships. This is I think this 265 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: is the most important zone. But it works best if 266 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: we've built a foundation where kids already know that their 267 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 1: voice matters and that they're allowed to say no critical things. 268 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: Here around consent number one, you can say yes and 269 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: then change your mind if you withdraw consent, then there 270 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: is no consent. Consent is gone. And these are the 271 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: things that we've got to talk about kids about. We've 272 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: got to talk to them about how if there's any 273 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: alcohol or other drugs involved and therefore or that any 274 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: kind of impairment, or a person doesn't have the capacity, 275 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: then they can't consent. If they don't have the maturity, 276 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: if they're not old enough, they can't consent. Navigating consent 277 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: is sometimes just so much more complicated than do I 278 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: have permission? In fact permission. The example that I use 279 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: here when I'm talking to parents about this stuff is 280 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: the kids now and then we'll come to me and say, hey, Dad, 281 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: can I have fifty dollars so that I can go 282 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: and watch a movie and get some grilled at burger 283 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: and some chips. And I don't want to give the 284 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: kids fifty bucks, like that's a really expensive night out, 285 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: but that's how much it costs for a burger and 286 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: chips and a movie at the local cinema. But eventually 287 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: I roll my eyes and say, sure, take the fifty bucks. 288 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 2: Now. 289 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: Is that consent really? Like it's a pretty low bar. 290 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: And so when I and we probably need to talk 291 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: about kids again about this Becau's been a while. These 292 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: are not one and done conversations. But if the person 293 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: that you're with is not going to be excited about 294 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: what happened tomorrow, then I think that's not consent. I 295 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: like drawing two circles of end diagram, you know where 296 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: they're two overlapping circles, yep, And in one circle you've 297 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: got the words what I want, and in another circle you've 298 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: got the words what they want, and the bit where 299 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: they overlap is what we want, and that's consent. And 300 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: if you start to push into another zone, then that 301 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: ceases to be consent. I just think this is such 302 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: an important conversation, especially when teenagers are engaged in sending 303 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: images to one another or going to parties and there's 304 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: all those sorts of pressure. So I just I mean, 305 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: there's so much more we could talk about. This is 306 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: not a paid advertisement, but I want to refer people 307 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: to Consent dot gov, dot AU. Like I said, I 308 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: am an ambassador for it, and the work that they're 309 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: doing is really good, it's really smart work. Myself. Chanel 310 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: Kontos is also an ambassador Dan Prince Pay, who speaks 311 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: about pornography in schools all around the country. He's also 312 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: an ambassador and chantel Otten is also an ambassador. So 313 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: it's a pretty powerpatch forsome who are really trying to 314 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: push this consent conversation and matters consent dot gov dot AU. 315 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: So what about families in my minority situations. 316 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Actually, there's a bunch of resources that they've got 317 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: there as well, and I think it's really great. There's 318 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: some stuff First Nations families, which is brilliant if English 319 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: is not your first language. There's some really good resources 320 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: for people who just need stuff super simple, and they've 321 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: done a really smart job of that. And there's also 322 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: some resources for lgbt Q plus populations as well. Interestingly, 323 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: consent is in some circumstances it's navigated brilliantly, and other 324 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: circumstances it's absolutely atrocious, and so there's really great resources 325 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: for all of those as well. Let's wrap this up 326 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: with some final tips, Kylie. Have the conversations from the start, 327 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: folks on ethics and empathy and rights and bodily autonomy. 328 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the very crux of it. And if 329 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: we start those conversations at the very beginning, our kids 330 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: at least know and understand what we're talking about here. 331 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: Give your kids a voice, Give them a voice. Yeah, 332 00:15:58,440 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: from the beginning. 333 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: If you've got daughters, given that we've got six of them, 334 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: teaching them that they do not owe anything to anybody, 335 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: especially once they get into adolescents and start to have 336 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: an interest in boyfriends, girlfriends, partners, whatever. They need to know, 337 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: you just you don't owe them anything. You don't have 338 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: to say yes to anything. There's no obligation. Just because 339 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: they bought you dinner, or just because they bought your milkshake, 340 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: or just because they bought you a two dollars slurpy 341 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: from seven to eleven doesn't mean that you owe them 342 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: anything at all. You're welcome to say no every single 343 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: day until you're ready to start say yes. 344 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 2: And their whole just because they're them, Like they're not 345 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: waiting for Prince Charming to come and sweep them off 346 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: their feet. They are whole and worthy right now. Yeah, 347 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: as themselves. 348 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: And the last thing I'd say is this education and 349 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: conversations about consent are not going to stop the sexual 350 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: violence challenges that we have in Australia all on its own. 351 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: We do need more than that. So we need to 352 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: have these conversations around are the areas like alcohol and 353 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: other drugs, and if you're raising boys, it really I mean, 354 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: girls are the break boys are the accelerator, and we've 355 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: got to teach them that that's the way it's always 356 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: been and it shouldn't always be that way. That they're 357 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: not to be the accelerator. And if they are going 358 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: to be the accelerator, they're not allowed to. The whole 359 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: idea is you don't just put the pedal to the metal. 360 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: It's not about flooring it. It's about having a really 361 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: really healthy kind of control and sticking to the speed 362 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: limit metaphorically speaking, letting them know as well that the 363 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: pain of regret as a perpetrator will probably be pretty substantial. 364 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: Imagine what it's going to be like when you've got daughters, 365 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: how you're going to feel, how protective you'll feel, And 366 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: how would you feel if your daughter was dating a 367 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: guy like you. Would you be excited because you know 368 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: they're going to be safe, or would be terrified because 369 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: you know what you're like. So I think those kinds 370 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: of conversations matter. I'm not calling boys perpetrators, by the way, 371 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: and I'm not calling girls victims, but I think that 372 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: if we can have these conversations, we're going to have 373 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: fewer perpetrators and fewer victims, and that's a good thing 374 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: all round. So that's a conversation. Bit of a long one, 375 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: bit of a heavy one. More details at consent dot 376 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: gov dot a you. The Happy Families podcast is produced 377 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. All the details that 378 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: you need for more on this topic or at consent 379 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: dot gov dot au. And if you'd like more information 380 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: about making your family happier, visit us at happy families 381 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: dot com dot au.