1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily OS. This is 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: the Daily OS. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: the Daily OS. It's Monday, the twenty third of June. 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Sam Becauseloski. 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: Several months ago, a woman named Adriana Smith had a 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: medical emergency and ended up in hospital. Doctors found blood 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: clots on her brain and she was declared brain dead. 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 2: Her story didn't end there, however, because Adriana was around 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: eight or nine weeks pregnant and lived in the US 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: state of Georgia. In today's podcast episode, we'll explain what 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: happened next and the legal debate this case has sparked. 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: And Lucy, I think it's important to say that this 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: is a really difficult story to talk about. So if 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: you don't think you're up for listening to this episode, 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: you can join us again this afternoon for the headline. 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: You can come and listen to tomorrow's episode. But you 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: and I have been following this story for a couple 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: of weeks now there's a lot to unpack, both in 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: terms of the woman at the center of it and 21 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: the actual kind of facts of what's gone on here. Yeah, 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: but also the laws that have allowed this to happen. Yeah, 23 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: why don't we start by talking about Adrianna Smith. 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: So, Adrianna Smith was a thirty year old woman from 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: the US state of Georgia. She worked as a nurse 26 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: and she had a young son. In February, she began 27 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: having really strong headaches and at the time, she was 28 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 2: around eight or nine weeks pregnant. She went to a 29 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: local hospital, but her mother told local media that quote, 30 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 2: they gave her some medication, but they didn't do any 31 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: tests or scans. The following morning, so after she's come 32 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: home from the hospital, her boyfriend wakes up and he 33 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 2: hears her gasping for breath. He takes her back to 34 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: the hospital. At that point, they do a scan and 35 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: they find blood clots on her brain and it was 36 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: found to be too late for treatment. At that point, 37 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: she was declared brain dead. 38 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: And let's be really specific about that, because I know 39 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: we're not using that term colloquially. 40 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: It's certainly not. 41 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: It's a medical term. So it explains to me what 42 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: the term brain dead actually means. 43 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so brain death is declared when a person dies 44 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: while they're on life support. It means their brain has 45 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: ceased to function, and they're not responding to any stimuli like, 46 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: for example, light being shone in their eyes or like 47 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 2: being touched. They're just not responding, right. A brain dead 48 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: person can look and feel alive, like I was reading 49 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 2: a source that said they could physically feel warm because 50 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: blood is pumping, but they're not actually alive because their 51 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: brain has ceased to function. 52 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: And they're on life support. 53 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, So that means like a ventilator, for example, 54 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: which is a device that pumps air into your lungs 55 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: when you can't breathe on your own, keeps everything moving 56 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: in the body. When a person is declared brain dead, 57 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: that means doctors think that if they turned off the ventilator, 58 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: they would stop breathing and they would die completely in 59 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: the whole body would die, not just the brain. 60 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: And that's the situation that Ajuanis was on that morning 61 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: in February. 62 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, exactly. There's another important thing I should mention 63 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: about Adriana now, other than the facts that we know, 64 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 2: which is that she was declared brain dead in February, 65 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: and she was at that time pregnant. Adriana Smith was black. 66 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 2: In the US, black women are at significantly higher risk 67 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: of dying while pregnant or giving birth, three times more 68 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: likely than white women, according to the Centers for Disease 69 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: Control and Protection, which you would know is the CDC. 70 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: And does the CDC have any sense of why there's 71 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: that disparity. 72 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: They have a few different reasons. One of them is 73 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: racism in the medical system, including a lack of understanding 74 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: of the signs of medical issues in black women. Someone 75 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: who's actually been really outspoken about this is Serena Williams, 76 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: who everyone would know one of the world's greatest athletes, 77 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: the greatest female tennis player of all time, if not 78 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: the greatest of all time. But that's a story for 79 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: another day. In twenty eighteen, she gave an interview to 80 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: Vogue after she'd had her first child, Olympia. She said, 81 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: after she gave birth, doctors didn't believe her when she 82 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: said that she was getting blood clots on her lungs 83 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: and that quote. A nurse thought her pain medicine might 84 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,839 Speaker 2: be making her confused. So that story, oh and then sorry, 85 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: typic clear. She then did end up having blood clots 86 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: on her lungs once they gave her the scan that 87 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: she had requested. And that story has really stuck with 88 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: me ever since I read about it seven years ago, 89 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: and it came to mind again when I was reading 90 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: about Adriana Smith, because I was thinking, you know, if 91 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: an elite athlete likes Serena Williams, someone who I would 92 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 2: assume knows their body better than ninety nine percent of 93 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 2: people in the world, because she's had to perform at 94 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: such a high level, it can be disbelieved by doctors. 95 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: What does that mean for someone who is just a 96 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 2: regular person. 97 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: Sure, and we're picking up the story where Adriana is 98 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: lying in hospital, she's been declared brain dead and the 99 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: ventilator is the thing that's allowing her to breathe. Yeah, 100 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: take us through what happens after that. 101 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 2: Well, before I do that, I have to just quickly 102 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: jump back to June twenty twenty two, when the US 103 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: Supreme Court overturned its previous decision in the Roe versus. 104 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 2: Waged Court case. For those who don't know who might 105 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: need a refresher, this was a nineteen seventies court decision 106 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 2: that meant that abortion was protected at the federal level 107 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: in the US under the constitutional right to privacy. It 108 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: meant that states had to provide abortion in some way, 109 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: they could restrict it, but not if that imposed a 110 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: quote undue burden, then that was overturned. 111 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: A massive moment in American history. 112 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 2: Yes, so June twenty twenty two. And what this meant 113 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 2: was that states were free to make their own laws again. 114 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: And several states had already prepared by passing laws ahead 115 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: of time which went into effect as soon as or 116 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: shortly after the court decision was handed down. 117 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: So these laws would basically say, the day after a 118 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: Rovwaid decision is overturned, this is the new legal framework. 119 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: Then those laws would even be passed by state legislators, yes, 120 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: for ready active whenever there's a reversal at the Supreme Court, right. 121 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 2: Yes, and including then like court challenges would be prepared for. 122 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: So okay, So on the day when that law goes 123 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: into effect, we now are immediately filing a petition to 124 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: the court to get this stopped. So Georgie's law had 125 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: been passed in twenty nineteen, and that ban went into 126 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: effect fairly soon after the Roe v. Wade being overturned. 127 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: That ban restricted abortion to before the fetus has a 128 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: detectable heart beat. So that means basically if there is 129 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 2: a detectable heart beat, abortion is not allowed. This is 130 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: typically around six weeks that's before many know they are pregnant, 131 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: and at this point the fetus is the size of 132 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: a p There are a couple of exceptions, so rape 133 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 2: and incest, and there's also an exception for when a 134 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 2: doctor finds the pregnancy is quote medically futile to quote 135 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: Georgia law again quote in conducting an abortion, if the 136 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: child is capable of sustained life medical aid then available 137 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: shall be rendered. And then there's this other law passing 138 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: two thousand and five which means that an abortion in 139 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: the state can only be carried out with consent from 140 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: the woman who's pregnant. And again I'll just flag like 141 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: this is where things start to get quite intense. So again, 142 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: feel free to join us again for the headlines or tomorrow. 143 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: We're just going to take a quick pause there and 144 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: hear a message from our sponsor. And so, based on 145 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: what you've told me so far, we've got Adriana in hospital, 146 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: not in a position to give that consent. Yes, But 147 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: then I guess where this story is heading is if 148 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: the doctors found that the fetus can survive, then the 149 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: pregnancy had to continue, right. 150 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: Yes, so that's what's happened here. Doctors found that the 151 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: heartbeat law restricted them from terminating the pregnancy because Adriana 152 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: was on a ventilator, so her body could continue living 153 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 2: and carry the pregnancy for some time longer. Her family 154 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: told the local news in May that the baby was 155 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: doing okay, that toes, arms, and limbs were forming, but 156 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: they also said they didn't get a say in what 157 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: happened to Adriana. So her mother, April told media quote, 158 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: we didn't have a choice or a say about it. 159 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,119 Speaker 2: We want the baby, that's a part of my daughter, 160 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: but the decision should have been left to us, not 161 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: the state. 162 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: It's a really interesting one, especially in the context of 163 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: what we would know as next of kin laws and 164 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: all of those kind of ways that we defer judgment 165 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: to the next best person in those sorts of situations. 166 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: Did we hear anything from the hospital about this case? 167 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: So it said, privacy rules meant it couldn't comment on 168 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: this specific case, but it said it quote uses consensus 169 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: from clinical experts, medical literature, and legal guidance to support 170 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: our providers as they make individualized treatment recommendations. In compliance 171 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 2: with George's abortion laws. Now, the doctors had planned to 172 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: allow the pregnancy to continue until August. They believed at 173 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: this point the baby would be developed enough to survive 174 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 2: being taken from age Rihanna's body, so they were expecting 175 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: that to happen around thirty two weeks gestation. But they 176 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: have since intervened, which is why we're talking about this today, and. 177 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: So give me a sense of where we're at now. 178 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 2: So last week, Baby Chance was taken from Adriana's body 179 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: via caesarean section. He weighed around eight hundred grams. This 180 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,239 Speaker 2: means he's considered a micro premie, so very very premature. 181 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: And Adriana has also been taken off life support, so 182 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: she has now officially died in the eyes of the law. 183 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 2: Something else I'd like to address quickly, even though I 184 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: will say it's very distressing, I think it's important to say. 185 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: When I was reading about this story online, I saw 186 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 2: a lot of commenters suggesting or sharing this idea that 187 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 2: Adriana's body was in some way not able to continue 188 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 2: the pregnancy. Decay was the word I heard. I just 189 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 2: want to say, like, I know that that's very distressing, 190 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 2: but I felt it was important to kind of address 191 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: this because I have not seen any public information from 192 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: reputable sources about that, so it could be a case 193 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: of misinformation. However, I will say there is not a 194 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: huge amount that has been made public about why chance 195 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 2: has now been born, So I just wanted to address that, 196 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: to acknowledge based on what we know that hasn't been 197 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: the case, but we don't know as much as we 198 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: might eventually know. 199 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: It's really it's quite something when there's a story of 200 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: an individual that encapsulates what's going on legally at as 201 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: large as a national level in a country like the US, 202 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 1: with something as charged as abortion laws and the Roe v. 203 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: Wade precedent. What has the reaction been to this case 204 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: kind of playing out. 205 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: From reproductive rights activists and from members of the public 206 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 2: or some members of the public. I can say the 207 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: reaction has been horror. I mean, as journalists, we don't 208 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 2: tend to use emotive language, but that is objectively what 209 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 2: I can see has been the reaction from some activists 210 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: and from some people from the political side of things. 211 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: The Georgia Attorney General, so the state's top league official, 212 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: said in May that the state's law does not actually 213 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 2: cover this situation and that if doctors had taken Adriana 214 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: off life support, it would not have been counted as 215 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 2: ending the pregnancy, but another legal expert has said that's 216 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: only something that can be tested in court. One of 217 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: the politicians who pushed the law through the legislature, so 218 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 2: the state parliament equivalent, Senator Ed Setzler, told the Catholic 219 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: News Agency that he was happy with the hospital's work 220 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: to quote stabilize the child, and said its decision was 221 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: not inconsistent with the law that he helped pass, but 222 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: that he saw an argument that quote the removal of 223 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: the life support of the mother is a separate act 224 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: from terminating the pregnancy. But he said this in May, 225 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: months after the hospital's decision. I guess I'll just close 226 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: by saying I still have a lot of questions about 227 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: the hospital staff who took care of Adriana's body, about 228 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: what we can expect to see from baby Chance, what 229 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: kind of life he can expect to lead, and about 230 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: what his family will do next. But we just don't know. 231 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: When we do know, we'll update you. 232 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: Thanks for taking us through that, Lucy with so much care, 233 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: and as you said, you're often the person in the 234 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: office who's ensuring that we are the most objective as possible, 235 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: and that's something that you're just so naturally good at. 236 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: But with the story like this, I so appreciate you 237 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: taking us through it with the care that it needed 238 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: as well. And that's all we got time for today 239 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: on the podcast. Make sure that you look after yourself 240 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: after what was a heavy listen and look after yourself 241 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: in the week ahead. We're going to be back in 242 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: the afternoon with some headlines. Until then, have a beautiful day. 243 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 244 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: Bunje lung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl country. 245 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 246 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 2: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 247 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 2: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations. We pay 248 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 249 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 2: past and present.