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Speaker 1: We know that tomorrow, I believe is the final day

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Speaker 1: for Territorians in those outward facing roles to get vaccinated

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Speaker 1: ahead of the mandate. Kicking in now joining me on

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Speaker 1: the line to talk more about this well from an

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Speaker 1: industry perspective, Master Builders CEO Dave Malone, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 3: How are you not too bad?

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Speaker 2: Dave?

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Speaker 1: How are things going from your perspective with the mandate

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Speaker 1: well about to begin.

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Speaker 2: It's an interesting question, Katie. I suppose we have our

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Speaker 2: fingers crossed. What we saw with the lockout earlier this

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Speaker 2: week and last week was our workforce was very low.

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Speaker 2: We only got turnout of fifteen or twenty percent to projects.

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Speaker 2: Some of the reason for that was, undoubtedly we have

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Speaker 2: pinch points in construction and you need key people to

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Speaker 2: do key tasks, and we have a lot of people

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Speaker 2: who are single dosed. But it does leave you with

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Speaker 2: concern that come tomorrow we might be short a few

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Speaker 2: people on construction work sites cross the territory.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I mean fifteen to twenty percent of people at

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Speaker 1: work throughout that last lockout. How does that sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, how does that make you feel?

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Speaker 3: Then? Ahead of this mandate kicking in.

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Speaker 2: The best way to describe that is that our phones

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Speaker 2: didn't stop ringing right through the lockout, and you know,

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Speaker 2: people were coming to us not just with their concerns,

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Speaker 2: but trying to understand whether they were the only ones

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Speaker 2: experiencing those problems or it was occurring across the industry.

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Speaker 2: So I think everybody is very nervous about tomorrow. We

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Speaker 2: have our fingers crossed. We've seen the data that says

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Speaker 2: that people are rushing to get vaccinated in time for tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed, I suppose.

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Speaker 1: So Dave just to talk us through because we've had

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Speaker 1: a lot of phone calls about does it kick in tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: Is it actually from Friday that you've got to be

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Speaker 1: vaccinated or first facts to be able to go to.

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Speaker 3: Work or Saturday?

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Speaker 1: From your perspective, what's happening in the construction sector.

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Speaker 2: Our understanding, and we're certainly not lawyers, is that if

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Speaker 2: people want to turn up for work on Saturday morning,

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Speaker 2: and Saturday's a normal working day for a lot of

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Speaker 2: the construction sector, then people will need to have had

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Speaker 2: their first dose of the vaccine and they'll need to

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Speaker 2: be able to prove that they've had that dose if

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Speaker 2: they have a job where they're likely to come in

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Speaker 2: contact with a vulnerable person or they're likely to get

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Speaker 2: infected themselves or work on essential infrastructure. So it's a

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Speaker 2: complicated parameter that sits with that. I think most of

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Speaker 2: the industry will need to be vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: I know that you said that there are obviously pinch points,

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Speaker 1: so you know, while there may be a business that

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Speaker 1: is fully vaccinated or that all their workers are fully vaccinated,

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Speaker 1: they may require on guessing subby's that potentially aren't, or

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Speaker 1: that there's different critical roles that you know they may

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Speaker 1: have where one person's not vaccinated, and it could have

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Speaker 1: a huge impact.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. If you think of something really simple like a

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Speaker 2: concrete or it starts with the quarry guys delivering the

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Speaker 2: rock and the cement guys delivering the cement to a

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Speaker 2: batch plant, and the batch plant's got to produce the cement,

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Speaker 2: and the drivers have got to deliver it to the site,

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Speaker 2: and then the concrete places have got to place it.

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Speaker 2: Somebody needs to finish or people need to finish it off,

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Speaker 2: and then someone needs to certify that work. If you're

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Speaker 2: missing key people anywhere along the line that entire activity stops.

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Speaker 2: And that's the challenge for construction. We're a manufacturing process,

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Speaker 2: so you need every bailable to deliver the final product.

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Speaker 1: So Dave, a look, how soon are you going to

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Speaker 1: know just how big an impact this could have? Is

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Speaker 1: it going to be sort of come Saturday morning, whether

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Speaker 1: people do or don't turn up to work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I think I've said to our guys in

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Speaker 2: the office here, be prepared for phone calls on the

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Speaker 2: weekend and on Monday. We'll soon know. As I said earlier,

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Speaker 2: we've got our fingers crossed. We're hopeful that for those

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Speaker 2: people who have to be vaccinated, they are to continue on.

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Speaker 2: We're running up to the wet season now, this is

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Speaker 2: such a critical time for construction. We really need to

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Speaker 2: have all hands on deck. So yeah, fingers crossed, But

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Speaker 2: there's no crystal ball. We don't know what Saturday looks

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Speaker 2: like or Monday for that matter.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Dave, it sounds like it's going to be tough,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's going to be really tough over

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Speaker 1: the coming days and weeks. I know that it would

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Speaker 1: be tough obviously for employers as well, having very difficult

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Speaker 1: conversations I'm assuming with their employees.

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Speaker 3: What feedback are.

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Speaker 1: You receiving from some in your sector at the moment

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Speaker 1: in that space, It's the.

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Speaker 2: Full cross section, Katie. There are some businesses that are

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Speaker 2: fully vaccinated and just going about their going about their business.

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Speaker 2: But I've had a lot of phone calls from business

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Speaker 2: owners and managers at every level, from the small mom

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Speaker 2: and dad business that works of a nighttime around the

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Speaker 2: kitchen table trying to work out what happens tomorrow, right

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Speaker 2: through to the multinationals. I can tee you they're not

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Speaker 2: enjoying these conversations. You have to be an expert in

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Speaker 2: the cocho direction, in the Work Health Act, in the

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Speaker 2: Fair Work Act, in the contracts you've currently got running

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Speaker 2: across town, and then your own employment arrangements with your people.

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Speaker 2: So it's a difficult time and they're not enjoying it

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Speaker 2: one little bit. I know. Mario, the other day you

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Speaker 2: mentioned that you know there's tension across the community and

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Speaker 2: within businesses and within families. He was spot on. It's

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Speaker 2: exactly the feedback we're getting too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's quite sad in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. I feel like certain, you know, certain parts

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Speaker 1: of the community are really divided at the moment, and

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Speaker 1: I would imagine that that's the case in every industry,

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Speaker 1: and like Mario had said to us, and like you've

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Speaker 1: just said, you know, even within different families, different workplaces,

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's a similar situation, and it is quite

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Speaker 1: a divisive situation in some ways.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen business is angry for a while, to

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Speaker 2: be honest. They don't like being put in this position

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Speaker 2: of having to sort of look at people and look

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Speaker 2: them in the eye and say, I'm sorry, but if

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Speaker 2: you're not going to get vaccinated, you can't work tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: or whatever it might be. They don't like it. We

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Speaker 2: know that that's part of life, and the government said

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Speaker 2: get on with it, but they're not enjoying it one

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Speaker 2: little bit. And there's a lot of anger out there

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Speaker 2: right now. Hopefully it dissipates and we can get on.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to finish our projects before Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Dave, at this point in time, you know, really Saturday

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Speaker 1: morning rolls around. I know that you've sort of said

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Speaker 1: you're not one hundred percent sure what to expect at

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Speaker 1: this point, but are you prepared that we could end

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Speaker 1: up with, you know, some major construction sites sort of

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Speaker 1: not operating, and even different homes and you know, different

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Speaker 1: builds that are underway not being able to continue.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty comfortable that the companies have all got plans

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Speaker 2: in place for Saturday. They might not be perfect, but

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Speaker 2: they'll have plans in place. They'll be looking for alternity solutions.

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Speaker 2: So it'll be bumpy, but it won't bring the industry

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Speaker 2: to a hole by any means. It'll be a case

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Speaker 2: of if this doesn't work, we're going to try something else.

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Speaker 2: Our programming will change. The pressure will come on to

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Speaker 2: people too, who had to make a choice between being

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Speaker 2: vaccinated and unvaccinated if their job requires it. Hopefully we

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Speaker 2: just get past this point and then we move on.

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Speaker 1: Any idea like have you had any discussions with government?

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Speaker 1: Is there you know, like, has there been support provided

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Speaker 1: in terms of the legalities and in terms of the expectations.

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Speaker 2: Government has certainly provided question and answer documents for the

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Speaker 2: industry and they have been circulated out to everybody. But

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Speaker 2: I think right at the start of when this announcement

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Speaker 2: first came out, you were talking to a lawyer I.

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Speaker 3: Can't remember right now from the silver Head Brander.

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Speaker 2: And he was saying it's pretty straightforward until you move

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Speaker 2: down a layer which into the detail, and then it's

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Speaker 2: a case by situation. So it's been incredibly complicated for businesses.

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Speaker 2: They have to balance out so many competing obligations. And

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Speaker 2: you know, there has never been through this entire pandemic,

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Speaker 2: sufficient information for business. And I know that people will

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Speaker 2: get upset when I say that, but we should have

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Speaker 2: tools online that people can use to understand the complexity

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Speaker 2: of the stuff we're talking about. If you ever sit

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Speaker 2: today and go through the Cocho directions and look at

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Speaker 2: them and see the cross referencing and everything else, it

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Speaker 2: is very difficult for the average person to understand what

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Speaker 2: their obligations are well.

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Speaker 1: And I guess you know, in a lot of different businesses,

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Speaker 1: some will be members of the likes of Master Builders,

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Speaker 1: some will be members of the likes of the Chamber

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Speaker 1: of Commerce or their associated sort of groups, but others aren't,

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Speaker 1: and it could become even more difficult I'm assuming for

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Speaker 1: some of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, dead right.

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Speaker 1: Though.

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Speaker 2: I will say that the industry groups has been really

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Speaker 2: good through this. They're not limiting their information to just

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Speaker 2: our members. I mean, we limit our advice to members

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Speaker 2: because that's how we're set up, but for general information

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Speaker 2: that's available on all our social media as well. We

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Speaker 2: understand the challenge that people are confronting and it's not easy,

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Speaker 2: you know. It's a conversation that we've had many times

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Speaker 2: over that we keep just loading additional complexity all the

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Speaker 2: time and expecting people to be experts and everything, and

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Speaker 2: there's insufficient support I think in terms of online tools

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Speaker 2: and really clear advice that allows people to work out

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Speaker 2: what their obligations might be.

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Speaker 1: Well, Dave Malone from Master Builders, anything else I should

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Speaker 1: know about before.

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Speaker 2: I let you go, No, Katie, I just appreciate the

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Speaker 2: time to chat, and you know, I wish everybody across

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Speaker 2: construction every success In the next couple of days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we will catch up with you, no doubt

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Speaker 1: over the coming days and find out how it's all going.

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Speaker 3: Dave Malone. Always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Katie,