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Speaker 1: We know that.

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Speaker 2: Right now, the Northern Territory Resources Week is well underway

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Speaker 2: with a two day conference focusing on some of the

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Speaker 2: territory's major developments. Now you've heard from my next guest before,

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Speaker 2: usually on the phone because he is based in Canberra,

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Speaker 2: but very pleased to say that he's here in Darwin

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Speaker 2: at the moment as part of well he's one of

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Speaker 2: the speakers in fact, at the event. He's the head

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Speaker 2: of the Northern Australia Strategic Policy Center. John Coin, Good

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Speaker 2: morning to you.

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Speaker 1: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 3: It's great to be back in the end to you again,

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Speaker 3: even if it is a little bit hot. And I

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Speaker 3: love the sweat factor you mentioned earlier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, throughout the news, Like where else in Australia do

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Speaker 2: you mention the sweat factor? Right?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know for your listeners. I came up here

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Speaker 1: on Monday.

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Speaker 3: It was minus two in Canberra as I left, so

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Speaker 3: I don't mind the sweat.

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Speaker 1: Back to today, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like you know, the thing is, we complain sometimes about

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Speaker 2: the weather, but you need that bit of sort of

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Speaker 2: comparison sometimes to remember how cold it is in other places. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and just how lucky we are in the territory really. Yeah, now, John,

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Speaker 2: we know that you know that obviously the NT Resources

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Speaker 2: Week is underway at the moment. You're somebody who we

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Speaker 2: speak to often about Northern Australia and about just how

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Speaker 2: important Northern Australia is when you look at so many

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Speaker 2: different factors. But what was the you know, what was

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Speaker 2: the theme I suppose of your speech this morning? And

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Speaker 2: you know what is the focus?

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Speaker 1: I guess you know?

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Speaker 3: NT Resources Week is really interesting. So I walked in there,

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Speaker 3: there's almost eight hundred people in the audience. It's a

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Speaker 3: you know, a record number of attendees. There's a there's

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Speaker 3: a sort of an underlying I don't want to say excitement.

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Speaker 3: It's probably that a couple of degaies before about you know,

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Speaker 3: all these projects, all these opportunities, all these things that

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Speaker 3: are possible. Ye, And that's where my sort of thinking

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Speaker 3: came in for my speech today was really about thinking

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Speaker 3: big or actually acting big to take advantage. Now when

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Speaker 3: I say that, my presentation really went through this issue

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Speaker 3: of and it's really for people in Northern Australia now

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Speaker 3: is probably a once in a generation time to really

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Speaker 3: get things going here and probably never not even since federation.

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Speaker 1: When I say that. So, you know, we've got.

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Speaker 3: Geopolitics at play, great competition between China and the US.

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Speaker 3: As a result of that, we're seeing economic coersion. So

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Speaker 3: governments like Japan, Korea, the US are looking for alternative

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Speaker 3: supply chains and things like critical minerals, rare earth, and fuels.

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Speaker 3: So really exciting times with that. You know, the Australian

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Speaker 3: governments focus on resilience and preparing for climate change and

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Speaker 3: more frequent, more intense weather events, so they're investing and

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Speaker 3: looking at investing in infrastructure, new markets. So there's all

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Speaker 3: these conditions that just make it, you know, the magic time.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Of course, people you know, you and I have this

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Speaker 3: conversation about the defense side, yeah, you know, and it

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Speaker 3: is competition and so a lot of people are nervous

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Speaker 3: about you know, US troops and that. So it's not

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Speaker 3: just about troops, it's about economic opportunity.

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Speaker 2: John. You know, it's like it sounds as though we're

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Speaker 2: on the verge of there being a bit of a

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Speaker 2: turnaround I suppose for the territory. But in a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways we over the years maybe haven't quite lived

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Speaker 2: up to our potential. So how like, how are we

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Speaker 2: going to make sure that we actually do.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think here is that governments have a really

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Speaker 3: important role, and we're seeing this play out. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: the answer to energy transition is new technology. Part of

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Speaker 3: that is things like critical minerals and rare earth, you know,

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Speaker 3: vanadium and those sorts of substances. Global markets aren't going

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Speaker 3: to just make that happen so all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: and in response to making secure supply chains. And I

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Speaker 3: know that's a lot of buzzwords, but you know, in

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Speaker 3: order to have a viable alternative to buying goods from China,

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Speaker 3: governments are having to intervene in their economies. In the US,

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Speaker 3: we saw this with legislation like the Inflation Reduction Act,

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Speaker 3: and here we're seeing it in investments in industry. So

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Speaker 3: at the local level, at the territory and state level,

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Speaker 3: and at the federal level, there's this need to invest

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Speaker 3: in order to crowd in other resources and other investors.

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Speaker 3: And I think, you know, Middle Arm is a really

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Speaker 3: the project itself is a really great example and offers

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Speaker 3: that potential up here in the North.

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Speaker 2: John. One of the hard things I suppose that we

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Speaker 2: see in the territory quite often. I know, even at

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Speaker 2: that conference this morning, there's obviously, you know, there's been

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Speaker 2: sort of protesters there. There is always people that are opposed.

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Speaker 2: I guess when you talk about things like gas, when

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Speaker 2: you talk about things like middle arms. So on one hand,

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Speaker 2: you've got you know, the Chief Minister saying that this

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Speaker 2: presents great opportunity for US middle arm and we've you know,

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Speaker 2: we've heard from from others saying that this is you know,

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Speaker 2: a massive project that could bring an enormous number of

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Speaker 2: jobs to territories. But then on the other hand, you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got the likes of the environments and to saying,

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Speaker 2: hang on a second, we are talking about, you know

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Speaker 2: about sort of I guess you'd say, non, you know,

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Speaker 2: things that are going to ruin the environment. To put

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Speaker 2: it really bluntly from their perspective, how do you kind

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Speaker 2: of juggle this? Because it is also sometimes our politicians

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Speaker 2: aren't quite brave enough to make those decisions that they're

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Speaker 2: worried are going to have a negative, negative impact or

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Speaker 2: negative side effects.

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Speaker 3: Look, but I thing is not you know what we

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Speaker 3: don't want to do is have polarized debates. Now when

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Speaker 3: I say that, okay, I believe in climate change, I

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Speaker 3: think it's evident in the frequency and intensity of weather

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Speaker 3: events and that we need to do something about that.

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Speaker 3: The catch cry of environmentalists for generations, so certainly the

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Speaker 3: last two generations has been think globally, act locally. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So this is what I put to you in those

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Speaker 3: sorts of canter arguments. Would you rather critical minerals being

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Speaker 3: dug out of the ground and processed in Australia using

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Speaker 3: the world's best ESG compliance, so world's best environmental compliance

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Speaker 3: with that transition, or would you rather those commodities being

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Speaker 3: dug out of the ground in countries like the Democratic

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Speaker 3: Republic of Congo by teenage human slaves and being processed

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Speaker 3: in a way that completely destroys the environment and is

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Speaker 3: rife with corruption. And my answer is is I think

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Speaker 3: that we're better off doing that in Australia in the

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Speaker 3: interest of the globe. Now, you know that doesn't inhibit

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Speaker 3: the need to eventually transition from fossil fuels to renewables.

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Speaker 1: But you know, in.

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Speaker 3: Order and the second harghen it is, in order to

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Speaker 3: go across to renewables, we need those commodities like rare

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Speaker 3: earths and critical minerals. To process them, we need energy.

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Speaker 3: So you know this is that sort of thing. Now,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's fine for austraints, They're not in my backyard.

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Speaker 3: But think globally. Act globally is really key to this argument,

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Speaker 3: and environmentalists are right about that. So from my perspective,

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Speaker 3: I think it is in the interests of the Northern

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Speaker 3: terry to ensure global supply chains of gas. Global supply

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Speaker 3: chains are critical minerals and rare earth are extracted and

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Speaker 3: processed in an ESG responsible way.

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Speaker 2: John, we hear here in the Northern Territory. We sort

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Speaker 2: of talk quite a bit, I guess in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 2: and I suppose in Northern Australia about the boom and

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Speaker 2: bust sort of cycle that we go through. And I

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Speaker 2: know that we hear the buzzwords as well of things

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Speaker 2: like diversifying the economy and for us, you know, for

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Speaker 2: a lot of locals, the boom of impects and the

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Speaker 2: IMPEX projects saw a huge workforce come into the territory.

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Speaker 2: It saw a lot of you know, the economy grow

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Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. But then I guess we've

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Speaker 2: sort of seen things received over a number of years

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Speaker 2: since then. I don't know, you know, if you listen

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Speaker 2: to either side of politics. People have different views on

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Speaker 2: just how the economy is tracking right now. But is

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Speaker 2: it you know, how important is that diversification? And then

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Speaker 2: when you look at that diversification, what are the key

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Speaker 2: areas for us here in the territory in the coming years.

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Speaker 3: Look, you know, I want to be clear here on

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Speaker 3: the IMPEX thing first to start with, I think the

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Speaker 3: IMPEX model shows two policy makers and international investors the

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Speaker 3: art of the possible.

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Speaker 1: So let's you know, I've said to you before.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you watch those big shipping tankers go

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Speaker 3: out through the harbor, okay, that is providing ten percent

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Speaker 3: of the LNG needs of Japan.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Now, if we had have said twenty years ago

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Speaker 1: that was happening to Goo, they're mad. So it shows

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Speaker 1: the art of the possible up here.

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Speaker 3: I think that, you know, the idea the boom and

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Speaker 3: bus cycle has been challenging for the Northern Territory and

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Speaker 3: Northern Australia in general. Part of that is because we're

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Speaker 3: always looking for, you know, what is the next boom

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Speaker 3: that we can get, you know, the big project. I

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Speaker 3: think that we need to be able to look here

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Speaker 3: and diverse find into a whole range of industries. There's

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Speaker 3: really great territorians out there doing this right now. So

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Speaker 3: you and I have talked about speed three D printing,

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Speaker 3: you know, redefining the nature of modern manufacturing, fastest three

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Speaker 3: D metal printing capability.

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Speaker 1: That's fantastic.

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Speaker 3: CDU have got a really exciting project I've the last

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Speaker 3: twelve months I've been looking at and you know, they're

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Speaker 3: trying to get up off the ground, which I call

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Speaker 3: long life shelf stable products.

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Speaker 1: And before all the cynifts.

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Speaker 3: Out there and pesmus go, you're call talking about canned goods, John,

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Speaker 3: I said, yes, I am talking about can goods. But

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Speaker 3: we're not talking about imex army. So we're not talking

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Speaker 3: about ration pack can goods here.

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Speaker 1: We're to the top end.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about the ability to export food across the region.

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Speaker 3: It's those sorts of things that are going to crowd

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Speaker 3: in and create an alternative economy for Northern Australia and

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Speaker 3: build that critical mass that's that's been missing. You know,

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Speaker 3: the Northern Australia needs people, it needs and we can

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Speaker 3: get into the vicious cycle of is it do they do?

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Speaker 3: We need houses first and then people come. We can

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Speaker 3: need jobs first, and then the people come. Then we'll

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Speaker 3: get the houses. I want to say all of the above.

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Speaker 3: And my idea here is is that you know, this

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Speaker 3: is where you know I see in several industries, certainly

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Speaker 3: in the export of indust of energy. So we're talking

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Speaker 3: about solar power and the promise of getting some cable

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Speaker 3: back up and running or running. I see the promise

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Speaker 3: of doing gas. I see the promise of processing critical

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Speaker 3: minerals and rare earth and moving along that value chain.

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Speaker 3: Now that's a long process hard, so you know, we

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Speaker 3: want to move to processing, move on to magnetization of

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Speaker 3: building things here. But you know, I look as a

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Speaker 3: model for those who are in business out there.

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Speaker 1: Go it's not possible.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Twenty years ago a company in Brisbane looked and said,

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Speaker 3: you know, we think you're moving our maintenance for aircraft

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Speaker 3: communication gear into canes. And they moved it to canes

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Speaker 3: twenty years ago. It's a pretty iffy decision at the time.

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Speaker 3: Now today every dash eight across the Pacific and including

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Speaker 3: from the Philippines flies into cans with their crew and

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Speaker 3: has their avionics and their comms gear maintained there. That

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Speaker 3: business has been in business for over two decades up there.

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Speaker 3: So you can do these things in Northern Australia. It

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Speaker 3: requires big thinking and daring.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you before I let you go, what

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Speaker 2: part is defense going to have to play as well?

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Speaker 2: When we talk about you know, what is what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen in the territory over the coming years.

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Speaker 3: Look, you know, I'm hoping on one side, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I've got a piece drafted for the publication at

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Speaker 3: the Strategist by a certain territory and that argues this.

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Speaker 3: You know, the NT has had a long association with

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Speaker 3: defense right since federation. And that's important, okay, and defense

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Speaker 3: is going to continue to be really important to the

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Speaker 3: development of Northern Australia. But I don't think that we want,

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Speaker 3: and I don't think the territorians and I don't think

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Speaker 3: Northern Australians in general want their economy to just be

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Speaker 3: about defense. So if your question is is you know

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Speaker 3: what's the future in terms of investment, well, look, you

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Speaker 3: over the next several year, is we like to see

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Speaker 3: massive investments in infrastructure up here? We're probably looking at

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Speaker 3: seeing a pump up in numbers of ADF personal up here.

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Speaker 3: What that looks like remains to be seen, but we're seeing.

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Speaker 3: Most likely we'll see some new capabilities up here like

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Speaker 3: amphibious watercraft. We're most likely DC, and there's announcements are

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Speaker 3: out there, bigger investments from the US up here and

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Speaker 3: notational forces. I think we might pleasantly in one day

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Speaker 3: in the near future see more Japanese coming through and

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Speaker 3: doing training here, which is fantastic and that will add

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Speaker 3: and create to that sort of crowding in.

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Speaker 1: Of new investments.

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Speaker 3: Defense will need to have a look and invest in,

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Speaker 3: as will the federal government in the sorts of infrastructure

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Speaker 3: that creates preparedness and resilience for your communities in the NT.

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Speaker 3: You know the questions after the Osprey accident, where you know, like, okay, hospitals,

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Speaker 3: I think you asked me, but certainly I know, and

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Speaker 3: one of the other radio stations asking I said, you know, John,

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Speaker 3: what's your take on hospitals, And it's just like, you

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Speaker 3: know what, the more investment there's never not I do

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Speaker 3: have enough investing in hospitals and doctors, and especially in

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Speaker 3: Northern Australia. So you know what, if they're going if

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Speaker 3: they're going to be up here in training, then they

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Speaker 3: need to invest more in that as well.

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Speaker 1: So you know, that is a really positive thing.

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Speaker 3: But for those who are in business and those who

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Speaker 3: are entrepreneurs and those who are in policy, it's a

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Speaker 3: starting block to crowd in other economic activity. And for me,

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Speaker 3: you know, I always say to you, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I know you don't like my buzzwords, but you know,

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Speaker 3: economically and socially prosperous, Northern Australia is a secure Australia

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Speaker 3: and it's pivotal to the economic security of Australia in

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Speaker 3: the future. So for me, that's all of this is

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Speaker 3: about building that level of economic and social prosperity.

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Speaker 2: And John, you know, for so many of us, so

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Speaker 2: I guess that's exactly what we want to see. And

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Speaker 2: for so many of us that have lived here for

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Speaker 2: quite some time, that's exactly what we want to see.

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Speaker 2: I guess for a few people. And I know there's

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Speaker 2: already some messages coming through people sort of maybe not

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Speaker 2: having the confidence in our political leaders to be able

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Speaker 2: to deliver on some of those projects. And I guess

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Speaker 2: that's you know, that's the tough part, and that's where

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Speaker 2: we're we're at at the moment where everybody wants Northern

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Speaker 2: Australia to thrive, but they maybe don't necessarily see that

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Speaker 2: will or the ability from our leaders to make it happen.

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Speaker 3: Look, I'll leave politics to the politicians, but I will

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Speaker 3: say this I think in policy makers. You know, my

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Speaker 3: experience and you know from Canberra to Darwin, is that

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Speaker 3: policy makers really want to do, as a general rule,

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Speaker 3: the right thing. You know, there's a creeping in with

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Speaker 3: accountability that policy makers are always looking for one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent solution, you know, the perfect solution, and so they

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Speaker 3: search hard for that. The harsh realities are that perfect

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Speaker 3: solutions are difficult to find. You know, every time you

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Speaker 3: make a decision, there's a compromise.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I'd sort of tell policy makers rather glibly often I say, well, look,

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Speaker 3: you know, imagine you're in Canberra, it's Friday night. We

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Speaker 3: want to go away for a weekend. I say, you know,

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Speaker 3: we drive out to the Yum Highway. If we turn

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Speaker 3: right in three hours, we're at Bondai Beach having a beer.

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Speaker 3: If we turn left in four hours we're in Melbourne

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Speaker 3: at Carlton having a coffee.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: So, but if you have a coffee, you can't have

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Speaker 3: a beer. Or if you have a beer, you can't

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Speaker 3: have a coffee. If you have a beach, you can't

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Speaker 3: have architecture, you know. So there's always these things and

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Speaker 3: one of the one of the challenges for policy makers

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Speaker 3: is getting this desire or belief that you can get

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent. And the other part is is, you know,

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Speaker 3: engaging heavily with you know, those very difficult decisions about

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Speaker 3: what direction we're going to take, and engaging with the

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Speaker 3: people around that, you know, And that's what I guess.

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Speaker 3: The North Australian Strategic Policy Center is always about modernizing

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Speaker 3: this way of thinking about Northern Australia, and it's been

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Speaker 3: very much focused on engaging with territorians and engaging with

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Speaker 3: people in Northern Queensland and northern Western Australia have those

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Speaker 3: harder conversations the nature of contested policy, and I'm glad

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Speaker 3: you've got messages coming in, you know,