WEBVTT - What we know about the Sydney stabbings

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this this is the Dailyah, this is the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily oas Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,

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<v Speaker 2>the fifteenth of April.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm zara, i'm sam.

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<v Speaker 2>Australia has been rocked after the killing of at least

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<v Speaker 2>six people at the Bondai Junction Westfield shopping center in

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<v Speaker 2>Sydney's East. As we record this podcast, there are a

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<v Speaker 2>number of victims who remain in a critical condition and

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<v Speaker 2>it's very possible that we could see the death toll

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<v Speaker 2>rise even further. On today's podcast, we'll update you on

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<v Speaker 2>what exactly happened, how the community has responded, and the

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<v Speaker 2>questions that still remain. Before we get to that story, though,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a big weekend of news, not just here

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia but globally.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. Over the weekend, Iran launched more than two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred missiles at Israel. Iran said he was in retaliation

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<v Speaker 1>to an Israeli strike on the Uranian embassy compound in

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<v Speaker 1>Syria earlier this month. While Israel and Iran have had

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<v Speaker 1>a hostile relationship for many decades, this marked the first

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<v Speaker 1>time Iran had launched a direct attack on Israel. According

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<v Speaker 1>to Israel's military, the majority of missiles were intercepted following

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<v Speaker 1>the attack, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi said quote Australia

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<v Speaker 1>condemns Iran's attack on Israel. Anyone who cares for the

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<v Speaker 1>protection of innocent life must stand against these attacks.

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<v Speaker 2>Two bodies were found over the weekend in a shipping

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<v Speaker 2>container in the New South Wales Central West. New South

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<v Speaker 2>Wales Police confirmed an investigation had been launched following the

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<v Speaker 2>discovery of the two bodies and are now appealing to

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<v Speaker 2>the public for further information.

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<v Speaker 1>Billionaire Andrew Twiggy Forrest has had to drop a criminal

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<v Speaker 1>lawsuit against Meta relating to fake crypto ads on Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>which featured his face and name. The owner of Fortskew

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<v Speaker 1>Metals accused the social media giant of being criminally reckless

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<v Speaker 1>by allowing the scam ads to target vulnerable Facebook users,

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<v Speaker 1>who he alleged lost their savings due to the ads.

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<v Speaker 1>On Friday, WA's Director of Public Prosecutions, which was set

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<v Speaker 1>to prosecute the case on Forest's behalf, dropped the proceedings

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<v Speaker 1>due to quote insufficient evidence. Forrest said this showed quote

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian legal system is incapable of holding meta to account.

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<v Speaker 2>And today's good news because I think we all need it.

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<v Speaker 2>New paintings have been discovered in the ancient Roman city

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<v Speaker 2>of Pompeii. A banquet room decorated with characters from the

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<v Speaker 2>story of the Trojan War from Greek mythology are among

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<v Speaker 2>the new areas brought to light follows recent excavation efforts

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<v Speaker 2>among ruins dating back thousands of years. Pompei was buried

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<v Speaker 2>by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in seventy nine AD.

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<v Speaker 2>A third of the ancient city remains covered in debris

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<v Speaker 2>as archaeologists continue to work to discover more about life

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<v Speaker 2>in the region for the eruption. Before we get into

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<v Speaker 2>today's deep dive, this is one of those days I

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<v Speaker 2>think where the new cycle can feel especially heavy. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that it's important to remind all of you about

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<v Speaker 2>two things. The first is that if you are not

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<v Speaker 2>in the headspace to listen to this podcast today, please

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<v Speaker 2>feel free to skip it and come back again tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 2>If you need some help, you can always contact Lifeline

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<v Speaker 2>on thirteen eleven fourteen and in the same vein, I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's important also just to also be a bit

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<v Speaker 2>self aware about the way that you are consuming media

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<v Speaker 2>At times like this, I think that we all need

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<v Speaker 2>to be mindful about how much news we are consuming.

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<v Speaker 2>And of course knowing the facts is really important and

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<v Speaker 2>that's what we're here to give you. But you know,

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<v Speaker 2>reading every single person on Twitter's hot take might not

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<v Speaker 2>be so take care of yourself and let's get into

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<v Speaker 2>today's deep dive. Okay, So, Sam, this story unfolded over

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<v Speaker 2>a number of hours, but we first became aware that

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<v Speaker 2>something was happening in Sydney's East at Westfield Bondai Junction

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<v Speaker 2>and around three point thirty on Saturday. Take me back

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<v Speaker 2>to there and talk me through what the facts are

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<v Speaker 2>that we now know unfolded over that timeline.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure. So at that point, at three point thirty pm,

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<v Speaker 1>police were called to the Westfield Bondney Junction shopping center

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<v Speaker 1>following reports multiple people had been stabbed. The reports indicated

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<v Speaker 1>that a man had been moving across a number of

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<v Speaker 1>levels in the shopping center and covered a large section

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<v Speaker 1>of the location, and almost immediately shoppers began hiding in

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<v Speaker 1>shops and storerooms as the man, who was rested in

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<v Speaker 1>an Australian Rugby League Jersey and carrying a large knife

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<v Speaker 1>attacked shoppers now by three forty pms, so only ten

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<v Speaker 1>minutes later, the center was in chaos as witnesses reported

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<v Speaker 1>people running towards exits, evacuation alarms going off. And this

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<v Speaker 1>was really when the media started to get word of

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<v Speaker 1>this major incident unfolding. And at that time the government

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<v Speaker 1>and New South Wales police declared the attack a critical incident,

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<v Speaker 1>but we still really didn't know what exactly was happening.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and at that point, the attacker was still actively

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<v Speaker 2>moving around the center and I think that's part of

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<v Speaker 2>what is so hard to comprehend about this story is

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<v Speaker 2>how long he moved around the center. Yeah, So what

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<v Speaker 2>do we know happened from there?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we know that tactical police entered the center and

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<v Speaker 1>in some of the CCTV footage we can see the

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<v Speaker 1>attacker around that time lunge at victims and run towards shoppers,

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<v Speaker 1>followed in close pursuit by a sole police officer and

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<v Speaker 1>her name is Police Inspector Amy Scott. Now, a few

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<v Speaker 1>seconds later, out of the frame of the CCTV footage

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<v Speaker 1>that we saw on Sunday, we hear three gunshots ring

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<v Speaker 1>out and what we do know is that Inspector Scott

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<v Speaker 1>ordered the man to drop his knife and when he

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<v Speaker 1>refused to do so, he was shot three times. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>according to one eyewitness speaking to nine, Scott was on

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<v Speaker 1>another level of the shopping center performing CPR on a

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<v Speaker 1>victim before running upstairs in pursuit of the attacker, and

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<v Speaker 1>just after she shot the attacker, she then performed CPR

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<v Speaker 1>on him and that takes us to about four pm,

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<v Speaker 1>and between then and five thirty pm, a number of

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<v Speaker 1>people were taken to hospital. There was a growing almost

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<v Speaker 1>car park of ambulances outside Westfield and there were growing

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<v Speaker 1>fears on social media that the attacker was not acting

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<v Speaker 1>alone and footage started to emerge on social media of

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<v Speaker 1>this man with a knife, and what we started to

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<v Speaker 1>see was incredible footage of bravery from civilians who were

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<v Speaker 1>warding off the man with almost anything they could find,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, bollards, chairs, whatever was in the area. And

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<v Speaker 1>at about six thirty pm, New South Wales Police Assistant commissioner,

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<v Speaker 1>his name's Anthony Cook, he told media that the man

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<v Speaker 1>was acting alone and people were still at that point

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<v Speaker 1>being evacuated from inside the building. Many of whom had

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<v Speaker 1>been hiding in shops for almost two hours.

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<v Speaker 2>And do you just want to talk about that period

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<v Speaker 2>between the incident unfolding and the police press conference that

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<v Speaker 2>happened at six point thirty, because I have never seen

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<v Speaker 2>so much misinformation spread so quickly online Because obviously police

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<v Speaker 2>were busy dealing with the incident at hand. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you and I were on the phone trying to get

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<v Speaker 2>through to them. They couldn't tell us very much. They

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<v Speaker 2>told us that there had been a stabbing and a

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<v Speaker 2>shooting incident, but they couldn't verify the number of victims,

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<v Speaker 2>and they certainly couldn't tell us anything about the alleged

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<v Speaker 2>perpetrator at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Or if he was acting alone at that point exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And so in the absence of this verified information, it

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<v Speaker 2>was quite unlike anything I've really seen in Australia before

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<v Speaker 2>that there was just so much I want to say

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<v Speaker 2>misinformation and disinformation, because they're different things. Disinformation is when

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<v Speaker 2>you are knowingly sharing false information. Sure, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>that when we actually got to hear directly from police,

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<v Speaker 2>there was you know, recognition that we were getting the

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<v Speaker 2>facts finally, and not just hearsay through social media and.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing that struck me about that time period

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<v Speaker 1>was just how much graphic footage was emerging onto social media. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>of course this is a reality of major insights that

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<v Speaker 1>happened all over the world, and the fact that it's

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<v Speaker 1>in the shopping center. Everybody was, you know, from different levels,

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<v Speaker 1>ready to film. But that was a lot to see

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<v Speaker 1>before we really knew exactly what was happening.

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<v Speaker 2>It was and you know, there are many downsides and

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<v Speaker 2>vicious trauma that emerges when you're viewing things like that,

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<v Speaker 2>But I do think that one of I guess, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know silver linings of that was that very quickly

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<v Speaker 2>we became aware of the incredible bravery that was being

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<v Speaker 2>demonstrated by everyday Australians. You know, everyone would have seen

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<v Speaker 2>that video of the man standing at the top of

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<v Speaker 2>the escalator with a ballard trying to stop the perpetrator

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<v Speaker 2>from killing anyone else. You know, the bravery of the

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<v Speaker 2>policewoman to run directly alone towards the perpetrator. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>become clear that she saved many lives in acting in

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<v Speaker 2>the way that she did.

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<v Speaker 1>Totally and there's consensus across the board that her taking

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<v Speaker 1>that decisive action meant that more people did not die,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's come from everyone from the New South Wales

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<v Speaker 1>Police Minister, to the Prime Minister, to local witnesses, and

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<v Speaker 1>she is being hailed as a hero. Now, according to

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<v Speaker 1>the New South Wales Police Minister, Inspector Scott is being

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<v Speaker 1>well looked after because it is a traumatic event and

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<v Speaker 1>spent Sunday with her family.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to move now to the victims because I

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<v Speaker 2>think that certainly in the aftermath, we have seen a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of coverage about the attacker, and I think that

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<v Speaker 2>there needs to be a recognition that the stories of

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<v Speaker 2>the victims and the names of the victims should always

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<v Speaker 2>remain at the forefront of this sort of reporting. So

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<v Speaker 2>what can you tell me about what we know? And

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<v Speaker 2>of course this is still unfolding about the victims that

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<v Speaker 2>have been identif fight so far.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first victim to be publicly identified was Ashley Good.

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<v Speaker 1>She was a thirty eight year old Sydney resident who

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<v Speaker 1>was in the shopping center with her nine month old

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<v Speaker 1>baby girl. Now, according to eyewitness reports, Good passed the

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<v Speaker 1>baby to bystanders after they were both attacked, asking them

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<v Speaker 1>to save her daughter. Her daughter is currently in Sydney

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<v Speaker 1>Children's Hospital after undergoing surgery on Saturday night, but is

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<v Speaker 1>expected to survive. Good died after being taken to hospital.

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<v Speaker 2>And absolutely horrific, horrific story. And you know, a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the news outlets were running interviews with the men.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe they were brothers who were handed the baby,

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<v Speaker 2>and they just looked so traumatized. But I also just

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to highlight something that Good's family issued in a statement.

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<v Speaker 1>The public Sunday morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, so I'll read the quote now. They said, overnight,

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<v Speaker 2>We've been shocked by some media publications reproducing photographs of Ashley,

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<v Speaker 2>her partner, and our baby girl without our consent. It

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<v Speaker 2>has caused extreme distress amongst Ashley's loved ones and we

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<v Speaker 2>request that the photos be taken down.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. That again highlights just how quickly moving this story

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<v Speaker 1>exploded on social media, but also the real human beings

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<v Speaker 1>and families that this story is about.

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<v Speaker 2>But I also think it highlights the responsibility that the

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<v Speaker 2>media has to report responsibly. And I saw a few

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<v Speaker 2>outlets taking down photos, but there were still many up there,

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<v Speaker 2>and a lot of outlets were ignoring the wishes of

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<v Speaker 2>the family. I believe that the family has since issued

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<v Speaker 2>a photo that they have approved for use by media.

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<v Speaker 1>So obviously a tragic story there. But that wasn't the

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<v Speaker 1>only tragic story. We also learned of twenty five year

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<v Speaker 1>old Dawn Singleton, who worked at the White Fox boutique

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<v Speaker 1>after completing a degree at UTS and attending Kambala Girls

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<v Speaker 1>School in Sydney's East. Then there was Jade Young, who

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<v Speaker 1>was a forty year old mother of two from Bellevue

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<v Speaker 1>Hill who was also killed. She was an architect practicing

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<v Speaker 1>in Double Bay and she was an active member of

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<v Speaker 1>the Bronti Surf Life Saving Club. And then late on

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<v Speaker 1>Sunday we learned about for us to hear He was

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<v Speaker 1>aged thirty and he was a security guard working at

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<v Speaker 1>Westfield and a Pakistani refugee who had arrived in Australia

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<v Speaker 1>a year ago, and the Amadia Muslim community issued a

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<v Speaker 1>statement saying to here was quote a cherished member of

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<v Speaker 1>our community. And then early on Sunday evening, New South

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<v Speaker 1>Wales Police confirmed the identity of the fifth victim, a

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five year old who lived in Bondai Junction. Her

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<v Speaker 1>name was Picoia Dacia.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I think I'm in two minds about how we

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<v Speaker 2>talk about the attacker, because certainly in the US there

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<v Speaker 2>has emerged a principle that news outlets and media companies

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't glorify the attacker. So usually in a US setting,

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<v Speaker 2>it to shooter and that you know by publishing the

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<v Speaker 2>name and the details of the person, that you know

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<v Speaker 2>the act is in some way being glorified in this situation.

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<v Speaker 2>And look, I guess we won't know whether this is

0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.960
<v Speaker 2>the right or the wrong decision. I think that it

0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:07.640
<v Speaker 2>is important to just briefly cover who this person was, because,

0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 2>like I said, there was a fair bit of misinformation

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:15.240
<v Speaker 2>spreading online that got to the point that a young

0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:20.600
<v Speaker 2>man from Sydney was misidentified as the perpetrator for a

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.640
<v Speaker 2>number of hours, including by a major media outlet here,

0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 2>And so I think just stating the facts here is important.

0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.840
<v Speaker 1>And the information that we learned about the perpetrator was

0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 1>given to us by police commissioners from both New South

0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.360
<v Speaker 1>Wales and Queensland in press conferences on Saturday night and yesterday.

0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.560
<v Speaker 1>So what we know about this man is his name

0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.800
<v Speaker 1>was Joel Couchi. He was a forty year old man

0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.680
<v Speaker 1>from Queensland. He was thought to have moved to Sydney

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.400
<v Speaker 1>from Queensland about a month ago, and he'd been staying

0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 1>in either his car or at a backpacker hostel. Now,

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:56.880
<v Speaker 1>according to the Queensland Police Commissioner, police last interacted with

0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Couchi in December last year, but he had never been

0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.720
<v Speaker 1>a rest or charged with a criminal offense. Now. New

0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 1>South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb refused to describe the

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.240
<v Speaker 1>stabbings as quote an act of terror and also said

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>there was quote no ideological motivation.

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:13.920
<v Speaker 2>And I think there has been a lot of commentary

0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 2>around whether or not this should be classified as a

0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>terrorist attack, and there are still investigations ongoing and the

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.200
<v Speaker 2>experts will speak to that, but I just wanted to

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:30.800
<v Speaker 2>highlight what ASIO in Australia categorizes as terrorism because I

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.840
<v Speaker 2>think that being really clear on the definition is helpful

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.840
<v Speaker 2>in these conversations. So, according to ASIO, under the Australian

0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Security Intelligence Organization Act, an act of terrorism is one

0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 2>that is an act or a threat of violence that's

0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 2>intended or likely to achieve a political objective, an act

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>or threat of violence intended to influence the policy of

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.040
<v Speaker 2>a government, or acts that involve violence or are likely

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 2>to lead to violence are directed at overthrowing or destroying

0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>the government or system of the Australian government.

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.560
<v Speaker 1>So, as we said, the investigation into the incident remains ongoing.

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.280
<v Speaker 2>One thing that has also emerged is that it is

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.560
<v Speaker 2>very clear that the majority of the victims were women.

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 2>So five of the six people killed in Saturday stabbing

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.280
<v Speaker 2>attack were women. What have we heard from authorities around

0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.280
<v Speaker 2>the gendered element to this attack.

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, sorry to repeat kind of what I've been saying

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.200
<v Speaker 1>throughout this but it is still an ongoing investigation and

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 1>that's what authorities are telling us. But they are also

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 1>telling us that they are aware that there could be

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.160
<v Speaker 1>a gendered element to this crime. And the new Stuthwales

0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Police Commissioner Web said quote, obviously that will be a

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.120
<v Speaker 1>line of inquiry and that's concerning, but that will form

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 1>a part of the investigation. Anyone seeing that footage can

0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:46.560
<v Speaker 1>see that for themselves.

0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 2>And so clearly as Commissioner Web is highlighting that there

0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 2>is a gendered element just statistically even to the number

0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.720
<v Speaker 2>of women who died in this attack. But as with

0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:58.880
<v Speaker 2>many elements of this story, we will have to see

0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 2>what the investigation and certainly we're likely to get more

0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:02.960
<v Speaker 2>information in the days to come.

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's a solid reminder that we're not even

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 1>forty eight hours out from this incident, and it's natural

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.560
<v Speaker 1>for us, even in media, to have a lot of

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.640
<v Speaker 1>questions still and to try to make sense of what

0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 1>had happened. But I dare say that an investigation of

0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 1>this scale, and even though we're talking on many broadcasts

0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 1>yesterday about the size of the crime scene, it's going

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 1>to take a long time. But regardless of the answers

0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 1>that we know right now, what is clear is that

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 1>it's been a nation defining event and one that we

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.960
<v Speaker 1>are all collectively now recovering from.

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Again. If this episode has brought up anything for you,

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 2>you can contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. Take care

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 2>of yourself, and we'll be back again tomorrow.

0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.600
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.360
<v Speaker 1>Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.159
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries both past and present,