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Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Dailyah, this is the

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Speaker 1: Daily oas Oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,

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Speaker 2: the fifteenth of April.

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Speaker 1: I'm zara, i'm sam.

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Speaker 2: Australia has been rocked after the killing of at least

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Speaker 2: six people at the Bondai Junction Westfield shopping center in

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Speaker 2: Sydney's East. As we record this podcast, there are a

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Speaker 2: number of victims who remain in a critical condition and

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Speaker 2: it's very possible that we could see the death toll

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Speaker 2: rise even further. On today's podcast, we'll update you on

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Speaker 2: what exactly happened, how the community has responded, and the

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Speaker 2: questions that still remain. Before we get to that story, though,

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Speaker 2: it was a big weekend of news, not just here

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Speaker 2: in Australia but globally.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Over the weekend, Iran launched more than two

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Speaker 1: hundred missiles at Israel. Iran said he was in retaliation

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Speaker 1: to an Israeli strike on the Uranian embassy compound in

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Speaker 1: Syria earlier this month. While Israel and Iran have had

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Speaker 1: a hostile relationship for many decades, this marked the first

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Speaker 1: time Iran had launched a direct attack on Israel. According

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Speaker 1: to Israel's military, the majority of missiles were intercepted following

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Speaker 1: the attack, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albernizi said quote Australia

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Speaker 1: condemns Iran's attack on Israel. Anyone who cares for the

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Speaker 1: protection of innocent life must stand against these attacks.

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Speaker 2: Two bodies were found over the weekend in a shipping

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Speaker 2: container in the New South Wales Central West. New South

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Speaker 2: Wales Police confirmed an investigation had been launched following the

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Speaker 2: discovery of the two bodies and are now appealing to

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Speaker 2: the public for further information.

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Speaker 1: Billionaire Andrew Twiggy Forrest has had to drop a criminal

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Speaker 1: lawsuit against Meta relating to fake crypto ads on Facebook

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Speaker 1: which featured his face and name. The owner of Fortskew

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Speaker 1: Metals accused the social media giant of being criminally reckless

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Speaker 1: by allowing the scam ads to target vulnerable Facebook users,

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Speaker 1: who he alleged lost their savings due to the ads.

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Speaker 1: On Friday, WA's Director of Public Prosecutions, which was set

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Speaker 1: to prosecute the case on Forest's behalf, dropped the proceedings

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Speaker 1: due to quote insufficient evidence. Forrest said this showed quote

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Speaker 1: the Australian legal system is incapable of holding meta to account.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news because I think we all need it.

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Speaker 2: New paintings have been discovered in the ancient Roman city

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Speaker 2: of Pompeii. A banquet room decorated with characters from the

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Speaker 2: story of the Trojan War from Greek mythology are among

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Speaker 2: the new areas brought to light follows recent excavation efforts

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Speaker 2: among ruins dating back thousands of years. Pompei was buried

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Speaker 2: by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in seventy nine AD.

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Speaker 2: A third of the ancient city remains covered in debris

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Speaker 2: as archaeologists continue to work to discover more about life

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Speaker 2: in the region for the eruption. Before we get into

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Speaker 2: today's deep dive, this is one of those days I

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Speaker 2: think where the new cycle can feel especially heavy. I

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Speaker 2: think that it's important to remind all of you about

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Speaker 2: two things. The first is that if you are not

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Speaker 2: in the headspace to listen to this podcast today, please

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Speaker 2: feel free to skip it and come back again tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: If you need some help, you can always contact Lifeline

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Speaker 2: on thirteen eleven fourteen and in the same vein, I

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Speaker 2: think it's important also just to also be a bit

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Speaker 2: self aware about the way that you are consuming media

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Speaker 2: At times like this, I think that we all need

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Speaker 2: to be mindful about how much news we are consuming.

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Speaker 2: And of course knowing the facts is really important and

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Speaker 2: that's what we're here to give you. But you know,

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Speaker 2: reading every single person on Twitter's hot take might not

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Speaker 2: be so take care of yourself and let's get into

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Speaker 2: today's deep dive. Okay, So, Sam, this story unfolded over

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Speaker 2: a number of hours, but we first became aware that

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Speaker 2: something was happening in Sydney's East at Westfield Bondai Junction

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Speaker 2: and around three point thirty on Saturday. Take me back

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Speaker 2: to there and talk me through what the facts are

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Speaker 2: that we now know unfolded over that timeline.

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Speaker 1: Sure. So at that point, at three point thirty pm,

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Speaker 1: police were called to the Westfield Bondney Junction shopping center

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Speaker 1: following reports multiple people had been stabbed. The reports indicated

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Speaker 1: that a man had been moving across a number of

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Speaker 1: levels in the shopping center and covered a large section

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Speaker 1: of the location, and almost immediately shoppers began hiding in

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Speaker 1: shops and storerooms as the man, who was rested in

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Speaker 1: an Australian Rugby League Jersey and carrying a large knife

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Speaker 1: attacked shoppers now by three forty pms, so only ten

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Speaker 1: minutes later, the center was in chaos as witnesses reported

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Speaker 1: people running towards exits, evacuation alarms going off. And this

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Speaker 1: was really when the media started to get word of

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Speaker 1: this major incident unfolding. And at that time the government

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Speaker 1: and New South Wales police declared the attack a critical incident,

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Speaker 1: but we still really didn't know what exactly was happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and at that point, the attacker was still actively

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Speaker 2: moving around the center and I think that's part of

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Speaker 2: what is so hard to comprehend about this story is

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Speaker 2: how long he moved around the center. Yeah, So what

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Speaker 2: do we know happened from there?

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Speaker 1: Well, we know that tactical police entered the center and

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Speaker 1: in some of the CCTV footage we can see the

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Speaker 1: attacker around that time lunge at victims and run towards shoppers,

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Speaker 1: followed in close pursuit by a sole police officer and

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Speaker 1: her name is Police Inspector Amy Scott. Now, a few

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Speaker 1: seconds later, out of the frame of the CCTV footage

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Speaker 1: that we saw on Sunday, we hear three gunshots ring

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Speaker 1: out and what we do know is that Inspector Scott

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Speaker 1: ordered the man to drop his knife and when he

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Speaker 1: refused to do so, he was shot three times. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to one eyewitness speaking to nine, Scott was on

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Speaker 1: another level of the shopping center performing CPR on a

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Speaker 1: victim before running upstairs in pursuit of the attacker, and

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Speaker 1: just after she shot the attacker, she then performed CPR

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Speaker 1: on him and that takes us to about four pm,

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Speaker 1: and between then and five thirty pm, a number of

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Speaker 1: people were taken to hospital. There was a growing almost

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Speaker 1: car park of ambulances outside Westfield and there were growing

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Speaker 1: fears on social media that the attacker was not acting

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Speaker 1: alone and footage started to emerge on social media of

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Speaker 1: this man with a knife, and what we started to

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Speaker 1: see was incredible footage of bravery from civilians who were

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Speaker 1: warding off the man with almost anything they could find,

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Speaker 1: you know, bollards, chairs, whatever was in the area. And

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Speaker 1: at about six thirty pm, New South Wales Police Assistant commissioner,

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Speaker 1: his name's Anthony Cook, he told media that the man

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Speaker 1: was acting alone and people were still at that point

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Speaker 1: being evacuated from inside the building. Many of whom had

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Speaker 1: been hiding in shops for almost two hours.

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Speaker 2: And do you just want to talk about that period

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Speaker 2: between the incident unfolding and the police press conference that

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Speaker 2: happened at six point thirty, because I have never seen

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Speaker 2: so much misinformation spread so quickly online Because obviously police

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Speaker 2: were busy dealing with the incident at hand. You know,

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Speaker 2: you and I were on the phone trying to get

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Speaker 2: through to them. They couldn't tell us very much. They

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Speaker 2: told us that there had been a stabbing and a

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Speaker 2: shooting incident, but they couldn't verify the number of victims,

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Speaker 2: and they certainly couldn't tell us anything about the alleged

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Speaker 2: perpetrator at the time.

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Speaker 1: Or if he was acting alone at that point exactly.

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Speaker 2: And so in the absence of this verified information, it

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Speaker 2: was quite unlike anything I've really seen in Australia before

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Speaker 2: that there was just so much I want to say

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Speaker 2: misinformation and disinformation, because they're different things. Disinformation is when

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Speaker 2: you are knowingly sharing false information. Sure, and I think

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Speaker 2: that when we actually got to hear directly from police,

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Speaker 2: there was you know, recognition that we were getting the

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Speaker 2: facts finally, and not just hearsay through social media and.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that struck me about that time period

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Speaker 1: was just how much graphic footage was emerging onto social media. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course this is a reality of major insights that

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Speaker 1: happened all over the world, and the fact that it's

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Speaker 1: in the shopping center. Everybody was, you know, from different levels,

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Speaker 1: ready to film. But that was a lot to see

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Speaker 1: before we really knew exactly what was happening.

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Speaker 2: It was and you know, there are many downsides and

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Speaker 2: vicious trauma that emerges when you're viewing things like that,

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Speaker 2: But I do think that one of I guess, I

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Speaker 2: don't know silver linings of that was that very quickly

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Speaker 2: we became aware of the incredible bravery that was being

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Speaker 2: demonstrated by everyday Australians. You know, everyone would have seen

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Speaker 2: that video of the man standing at the top of

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Speaker 2: the escalator with a ballard trying to stop the perpetrator

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Speaker 2: from killing anyone else. You know, the bravery of the

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Speaker 2: policewoman to run directly alone towards the perpetrator. And it's

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Speaker 2: become clear that she saved many lives in acting in

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Speaker 2: the way that she did.

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Speaker 1: Totally and there's consensus across the board that her taking

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Speaker 1: that decisive action meant that more people did not die,

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Speaker 1: and that's come from everyone from the New South Wales

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Speaker 1: Police Minister, to the Prime Minister, to local witnesses, and

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Speaker 1: she is being hailed as a hero. Now, according to

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Speaker 1: the New South Wales Police Minister, Inspector Scott is being

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Speaker 1: well looked after because it is a traumatic event and

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Speaker 1: spent Sunday with her family.

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Speaker 2: I want to move now to the victims because I

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Speaker 2: think that certainly in the aftermath, we have seen a

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Speaker 2: lot of coverage about the attacker, and I think that

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Speaker 2: there needs to be a recognition that the stories of

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Speaker 2: the victims and the names of the victims should always

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Speaker 2: remain at the forefront of this sort of reporting. So

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Speaker 2: what can you tell me about what we know? And

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Speaker 2: of course this is still unfolding about the victims that

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Speaker 2: have been identif fight so far.

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Speaker 1: So the first victim to be publicly identified was Ashley Good.

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Speaker 1: She was a thirty eight year old Sydney resident who

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Speaker 1: was in the shopping center with her nine month old

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Speaker 1: baby girl. Now, according to eyewitness reports, Good passed the

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Speaker 1: baby to bystanders after they were both attacked, asking them

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Speaker 1: to save her daughter. Her daughter is currently in Sydney

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Speaker 1: Children's Hospital after undergoing surgery on Saturday night, but is

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Speaker 1: expected to survive. Good died after being taken to hospital.

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Speaker 2: And absolutely horrific, horrific story. And you know, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the news outlets were running interviews with the men.

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Speaker 2: I believe they were brothers who were handed the baby,

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Speaker 2: and they just looked so traumatized. But I also just

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Speaker 2: wanted to highlight something that Good's family issued in a statement.

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Speaker 1: The public Sunday morning.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so I'll read the quote now. They said, overnight,

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Speaker 2: We've been shocked by some media publications reproducing photographs of Ashley,

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Speaker 2: her partner, and our baby girl without our consent. It

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Speaker 2: has caused extreme distress amongst Ashley's loved ones and we

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Speaker 2: request that the photos be taken down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That again highlights just how quickly moving this story

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Speaker 1: exploded on social media, but also the real human beings

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Speaker 1: and families that this story is about.

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Speaker 2: But I also think it highlights the responsibility that the

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Speaker 2: media has to report responsibly. And I saw a few

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Speaker 2: outlets taking down photos, but there were still many up there,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of outlets were ignoring the wishes of

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Speaker 2: the family. I believe that the family has since issued

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Speaker 2: a photo that they have approved for use by media.

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Speaker 1: So obviously a tragic story there. But that wasn't the

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Speaker 1: only tragic story. We also learned of twenty five year

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Speaker 1: old Dawn Singleton, who worked at the White Fox boutique

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Speaker 1: after completing a degree at UTS and attending Kambala Girls

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Speaker 1: School in Sydney's East. Then there was Jade Young, who

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Speaker 1: was a forty year old mother of two from Bellevue

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Speaker 1: Hill who was also killed. She was an architect practicing

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Speaker 1: in Double Bay and she was an active member of

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Speaker 1: the Bronti Surf Life Saving Club. And then late on

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Speaker 1: Sunday we learned about for us to hear He was

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Speaker 1: aged thirty and he was a security guard working at

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Speaker 1: Westfield and a Pakistani refugee who had arrived in Australia

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Speaker 1: a year ago, and the Amadia Muslim community issued a

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Speaker 1: statement saying to here was quote a cherished member of

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Speaker 1: our community. And then early on Sunday evening, New South

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Speaker 1: Wales Police confirmed the identity of the fifth victim, a

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Speaker 1: fifty five year old who lived in Bondai Junction. Her

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Speaker 1: name was Picoia Dacia.

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Speaker 2: Now I think I'm in two minds about how we

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Speaker 2: talk about the attacker, because certainly in the US there

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Speaker 2: has emerged a principle that news outlets and media companies

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Speaker 2: shouldn't glorify the attacker. So usually in a US setting,

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Speaker 2: it to shooter and that you know by publishing the

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Speaker 2: name and the details of the person, that you know

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Speaker 2: the act is in some way being glorified in this situation.

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Speaker 2: And look, I guess we won't know whether this is

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Speaker 2: the right or the wrong decision. I think that it

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Speaker 2: is important to just briefly cover who this person was, because,

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Speaker 2: like I said, there was a fair bit of misinformation

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Speaker 2: spreading online that got to the point that a young

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Speaker 2: man from Sydney was misidentified as the perpetrator for a

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Speaker 2: number of hours, including by a major media outlet here,

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Speaker 2: And so I think just stating the facts here is important.

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Speaker 1: And the information that we learned about the perpetrator was

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Speaker 1: given to us by police commissioners from both New South

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Speaker 1: Wales and Queensland in press conferences on Saturday night and yesterday.

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Speaker 1: So what we know about this man is his name

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Speaker 1: was Joel Couchi. He was a forty year old man

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Speaker 1: from Queensland. He was thought to have moved to Sydney

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Speaker 1: from Queensland about a month ago, and he'd been staying

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Speaker 1: in either his car or at a backpacker hostel. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to the Queensland Police Commissioner, police last interacted with

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Speaker 1: Couchi in December last year, but he had never been

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Speaker 1: a rest or charged with a criminal offense. Now. New

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Speaker 1: South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb refused to describe the

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Speaker 1: stabbings as quote an act of terror and also said

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Speaker 1: there was quote no ideological motivation.

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Speaker 2: And I think there has been a lot of commentary

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Speaker 2: around whether or not this should be classified as a

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Speaker 2: terrorist attack, and there are still investigations ongoing and the

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Speaker 2: experts will speak to that, but I just wanted to

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Speaker 2: highlight what ASIO in Australia categorizes as terrorism because I

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Speaker 2: think that being really clear on the definition is helpful

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Speaker 2: in these conversations. So, according to ASIO, under the Australian

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Speaker 2: Security Intelligence Organization Act, an act of terrorism is one

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Speaker 2: that is an act or a threat of violence that's

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Speaker 2: intended or likely to achieve a political objective, an act

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Speaker 2: or threat of violence intended to influence the policy of

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Speaker 2: a government, or acts that involve violence or are likely

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Speaker 2: to lead to violence are directed at overthrowing or destroying

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Speaker 2: the government or system of the Australian government.

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Speaker 1: So, as we said, the investigation into the incident remains ongoing.

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Speaker 2: One thing that has also emerged is that it is

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Speaker 2: very clear that the majority of the victims were women.

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Speaker 2: So five of the six people killed in Saturday stabbing

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Speaker 2: attack were women. What have we heard from authorities around

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Speaker 2: the gendered element to this attack.

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Speaker 1: Well, sorry to repeat kind of what I've been saying

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Speaker 1: throughout this but it is still an ongoing investigation and

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Speaker 1: that's what authorities are telling us. But they are also

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Speaker 1: telling us that they are aware that there could be

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Speaker 1: a gendered element to this crime. And the new Stuthwales

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner Web said quote, obviously that will be a

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Speaker 1: line of inquiry and that's concerning, but that will form

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Speaker 1: a part of the investigation. Anyone seeing that footage can

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Speaker 1: see that for themselves.

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Speaker 2: And so clearly as Commissioner Web is highlighting that there

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Speaker 2: is a gendered element just statistically even to the number

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Speaker 2: of women who died in this attack. But as with

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Speaker 2: many elements of this story, we will have to see

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Speaker 2: what the investigation and certainly we're likely to get more

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Speaker 2: information in the days to come.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a solid reminder that we're not even

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Speaker 1: forty eight hours out from this incident, and it's natural

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Speaker 1: for us, even in media, to have a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions still and to try to make sense of what

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Speaker 1: had happened. But I dare say that an investigation of

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Speaker 1: this scale, and even though we're talking on many broadcasts

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Speaker 1: yesterday about the size of the crime scene, it's going

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Speaker 1: to take a long time. But regardless of the answers

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Speaker 1: that we know right now, what is clear is that

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Speaker 1: it's been a nation defining event and one that we

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Speaker 1: are all collectively now recovering from.

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Speaker 2: Again. If this episode has brought up anything for you,

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Speaker 2: you can contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen. Take care

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Speaker 2: of yourself, and we'll be back again tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest

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Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries both past and present,