Speaker 1: If you're a regular Halle Work listener, you're probably a
Speaker 1: sucker for a morning routine, just like me, and for
Speaker 1: good reason. When left to our own devices were surprisingly
Speaker 1: bad at something as seemingly simple as getting fed and
Speaker 1: heading out the door on time. So maybe by now
Speaker 1: you've got yours perfected. You're meditating, exercising, journaling, drinking water
Speaker 1: with a pitch of Himalayan rock salt and a squeeze
Speaker 1: of lemon, all before your first Probadoria session at the office,
Speaker 1: Or if you're like the rest of us, it's a
Speaker 1: work in progress. And to add one very complex variable
Speaker 1: to the mix, maybe you have kids. Most kids hopefully
Speaker 1: aren't as interested in being little productivity machines as we are,
Speaker 1: but the right start to their day is still just
Speaker 1: as important as yours. Is best selling author and parenting
Speaker 1: expert and host of the top ranking podcast Happy Families,
Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Coulson says that the solution is actually to
Speaker 1: do less, and according to research, it can be as
Speaker 1: simple as a four part formula to turn our mornings
Speaker 1: with kids from messy to magic. My name is doctor
Speaker 1: Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of
Speaker 1: behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work
Speaker 1: a show about how to help you do your best work.
Speaker 1: So what are some of Justin's time saving hacks as
Speaker 1: a working parent, especially when thinking about the mornings.
Speaker 2: So there's probably a couple of different ways to answer this, Samantha,
Speaker 2: and I know that I don't want to get too
Speaker 2: deep and philosophical, but we do definitely have a couple
Speaker 2: of those things that I'll share with you in just
Speaker 2: a tick. Before I do that, though, I think it's
Speaker 2: probably worth highlighting my relationship with time and how it's
Speaker 2: changed over the years, and having children has been a
Speaker 2: really major element to that. I used to feel like
Speaker 2: time was a resource, and I felt like it was
Speaker 2: my job to maximize and utilize time for the very
Speaker 2: best of my ability, and to squander time was just
Speaker 2: the wrong thing to do. Watching my children when they
Speaker 2: get to live their life outside of the structures that
Speaker 2: we place upon them for their good, of course, Amantha,
Speaker 2: like school, for example, what I've discovered is that they
Speaker 2: actually don't think about time, not just not in the
Speaker 2: way that we think about time, but they actually don't
Speaker 2: think about time at all. It isn't important to them,
Speaker 2: it's not a thing. They're so present and so delighted
Speaker 2: to be in whatever moment they're in with I'm not
Speaker 2: suggesting that the future is an important that we shouldn't
Speaker 2: be making plans, but just their ability to be there
Speaker 2: and to enjoy that. And it's something that I've really
Speaker 2: learned as I've considered my life. I mean, I'm getting
Speaker 2: dangerously close to now and I'm maturing, and so Amantha,
Speaker 2: I think that I'm what I've actually decided. And this
Speaker 2: might sound a little bit woohoo and airy fairy, but
Speaker 2: I've decided that I am time like I am just
Speaker 2: made up of the moments that I have, and with
Speaker 2: that it's helped me to be a lot more easy
Speaker 2: with what happens. I'm still I'm still an efficiency junkie.
Speaker 2: I still need to get things done. When I step
Speaker 2: into the office, stuff has to be done, We've got
Speaker 2: deadlines and all that kind of thing. But when I
Speaker 2: step out of the office, my focus is actually less
Speaker 2: about time and efficiency with my children and just being
Speaker 2: with them. And that might mean that if they're having
Speaker 2: a bad morning, as much as we have a process
Speaker 2: for getting through the morning and making sure that well
Speaker 2: five children or four children. Now that the oldest ones
Speaker 2: don't need is so much, are out the door on
Speaker 2: time and doing what they need to do. We've kind
Speaker 2: of allowed ourselves to just be with them where they are.
Speaker 2: We have one daughter as well who has ADHD, and
Speaker 2: so that has also forced us to look at time
Speaker 2: and efficiency in a completely different way. So that's a
Speaker 2: kind of philosophical treatis before my answer. The short answer though,
Speaker 2: is we've got a couple of things that we do.
Speaker 2: One of the things is what we call our making
Speaker 2: Morning's Magic system, and that's comprised of four elements. Element
Speaker 2: number one. The morning begins the night before. So that
Speaker 2: means that we get the kids lunch boxes organized, or
Speaker 2: at least have them out and ready for the next day.
Speaker 2: They've got their uniforms, is it library days? At sports day?
Speaker 2: Do we know where their shoes are? Has a rogue
Speaker 2: sock been left under the seat in the car as
Speaker 2: their swimming gear ready for the next day? All that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. Morning begins the night before. We have
Speaker 2: found that that is one of the most incredibly useful
Speaker 2: things to make sure that we have smooth mornings. We
Speaker 2: even sort of pull out the stuff for breakfast and
Speaker 2: stick it on the kitchen bench so it's ready. That's
Speaker 2: the first thing. The second part of the four part
Speaker 2: process is that we wake the kids up about ten
Speaker 2: or fifteen minutes before they need to be awake. And
Speaker 2: what that does is a creates two things. First of all,
Speaker 2: connection because when we wake them up, we walk into
Speaker 2: the room gently and softly and sit with them and
Speaker 2: give them a hug and talk to them about the
Speaker 2: dream that we've wokened them from or what they're looking
Speaker 2: forward to in the day. We just have two or
Speaker 2: three minutes with each of them. It doesn't take long,
Speaker 2: but they wake up feeling connection before we move it
Speaker 2: to the next room and then a Mantha the critical thing.
Speaker 2: It also creates margin because no one's rushing because we've
Speaker 2: got an extra tenn or fifteen minutes because everyone's getting
Speaker 2: up a little bit early. The third thing that we
Speaker 2: do is we actually have kind of like a breakfast
Speaker 2: and lunch system. The kids put in their breakfast order
Speaker 2: and their lunch order by you know, when you go
Speaker 2: to a motel, usually a cheap motel on the side
Speaker 2: of a highway, you can do a quick tick and
Speaker 2: flick for room service. Breakfast the next day and you
Speaker 2: order those two pieces of thin white bread with a
Speaker 2: couple of fried eggs that usually arrive cold and a
Speaker 2: little bit too hard, not running en off. But you've
Speaker 2: got that tick and flick process. So we actually us
Speaker 2: we don't do it anymore because the kids have got
Speaker 2: the system nailed. But to start it off, we would
Speaker 2: get the kids to fill in their menu for breakfast
Speaker 2: and lunch the night before, which means that when they
Speaker 2: walk out into the kitchen, the list of what they
Speaker 2: need to do is already there. What they're going to eat,
Speaker 2: what they're going to prepare, how it's going to work.
Speaker 2: And I can't tell you how amazing that is to
Speaker 2: remove the decision making process from a tired, sleepy child's mind.
Speaker 2: They just have to look at the piece of paper
Speaker 2: and make that. And we've spent the time to teach
Speaker 2: them to make it, which means that step number four
Speaker 2: is that we don't tell them what to do. What
Speaker 2: we do instead, as we say, hey, how are you
Speaker 2: going with the five things that need to be done
Speaker 2: this morning? What's next? How can I help?
Speaker 1: That is so good. I'm taking copious notes as you're talking.
Speaker 1: Justin I'm loving this.
Speaker 2: We found that it's made an enormous difference, and in fact,
Speaker 2: it was so popular that The New York Times picked
Speaker 2: up an article that I wrote and they published it.
Speaker 2: If people want more, you could probably just link to
Speaker 2: the Making Morning's Magic New York Times piece that I wrote,
Speaker 2: and it outlines precisely what those steps are and also
Speaker 2: how it taps in with basic psychological needs that kids have.
Speaker 2: And this is why it works because it fulfills the
Speaker 2: need for connection. They're getting lots of that when we
Speaker 2: wake them up nice and early and spend time with them,
Speaker 2: but also as we say, hey, how are you going?
Speaker 2: What help do you need? Which is connection rather than
Speaker 2: where are your shoes? Why haven't you done this? Hurry up,
Speaker 2: we're going to be late, which is correction and direction.
Speaker 2: So it meets that need for connection. It satisfies the
Speaker 2: need for autonomy because they're making lots of choices about
Speaker 2: what they're going to eat or what they're going to
Speaker 2: do to make the morning work. And it also satisfies
Speaker 2: a basic psychological need for what research is called competence
Speaker 2: because they do it themselves. We spend the time teaching
Speaker 2: them how to make their breakfasts, how to scramble their eggs,
Speaker 2: how to pour milk onto their week bics, and how
Speaker 2: to get their lunch organized, which means that by the
Speaker 2: time they're about sort of eight on nine years old,
Speaker 2: they're doing it all on their own, which which is
Speaker 2: just bliss for a parent who is busy and tired
Speaker 2: and probably stayed up too late the night before watching
Speaker 2: Netflix instead of remembering that their morning began the night
Speaker 2: before as well.
Speaker 1: That's very cool. I was curious around what you were saying,
Speaker 1: just around being really present and almost losing that sense
Speaker 1: of time and almost the artificial structure that a lot
Speaker 1: of us can impose onto our kids. And it was funny.
Speaker 1: It reminded me of a moment this morning with my
Speaker 1: daughter before homeschool started, and we were playing with Lego
Speaker 1: and I'm on a never ending mission to sort all
Speaker 1: the Lego blocks into their appropriate colored boxes. I mean,
Speaker 1: like that's like achieving in box zero. It might happen
Speaker 1: for one minute and then it'll all be ruined. And
Speaker 1: I was just I was really in flow, and I asked, Frankie,
Speaker 1: you know, do you know what it means to be
Speaker 1: in flow? And she said no, no, And so we're
Speaker 1: talking about that concept, which I feel is all about
Speaker 1: just being really present and losing yourself in the moment.
Speaker 1: So what has helped you be present with your children?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like that's easier said than done.
Speaker 2: It's paradoxical, But what I've discovered is that when I
Speaker 2: try to do it all, I feel stressed and pressured
Speaker 2: and frustrated, and I feel like the world is moving
Speaker 2: too fast. And the great paradox of this is I've
Speaker 2: had to recognize that I am finite, and my time
Speaker 2: is finite, and my capacity is finite, and that therefore
Speaker 2: I can't do it all. And the tremendous paradox of
Speaker 2: accepting that you can't do it all is that you
Speaker 2: kind of sit there for a second on the sofa
Speaker 2: and think, I'm helpless, I can't do this. But then
Speaker 2: this remarkable thing comes out of that acceptance, and that is, well,
Speaker 2: if I can't do it all, what will I do?
Speaker 2: Because I Am going to do something. And it's in
Speaker 2: that moment that you kind of get this crystal well,
Speaker 2: if you're intentionally about it, you get this crystallization of values.
Speaker 2: If I can't do it all this morning, in terms
Speaker 2: of my gigantic to do list I'm supposed to. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you read all the health and wellness blogs, I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to meditate, and I'm supposed to have my spiritual
Speaker 2: or religious practice, and I'm supposed to exercise, and I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to work on my to do list or my
Speaker 2: mantras or my affirmation. So I've got to look at
Speaker 2: my I mean, you know the bogles that I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: and they make you feel so inadequate, because not very
Speaker 2: many of us wake uppen with our lives like that.
Speaker 2: And what has happened instead is I sit there like, okay,
Speaker 2: so that's not going to work for me. So what
Speaker 2: can I do what matters? And that's actually part of
Speaker 2: the way we distilled our mornings. We looked at how
Speaker 2: mornings needed to work, and we realize that our children
Speaker 2: really have either four or five things to do. They
Speaker 2: need to have breakfast, make their lunch, get dressed, and
Speaker 2: do their hair and brush their teeth. And if they
Speaker 2: can do that by a certain time, what that allows
Speaker 2: is all the other stuff is superfluous. All the other
Speaker 2: stuff doesn't really matter. And as we've taught them how
Speaker 2: to do those things themselves, as we've developed their competence.
Speaker 2: What it's meant for us is that we can actually
Speaker 2: be in those moments with them. We don't have to
Speaker 2: be rushing around and stressing and panicking about it. And
Speaker 2: it just makes it makes such a difference. Now, do
Speaker 2: we get it perfectly? Do we have calm, peaceful mornings
Speaker 2: every morning? Now, that would be just such a such
Speaker 2: a lie. But most mornings we actually get it eighty
Speaker 2: or ninety percent of away.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 2: It might be our challenging child, or a child who's
Speaker 2: had allows his sleep or woken up with a sore head,
Speaker 2: or just got out of bed on the wrong side.
Speaker 2: Stuff happens. Sometimes it's me or my wife, But just
Speaker 2: pausing and being intentional about it, and having done that
Speaker 2: heavy lifting in those early years, those first five to
Speaker 2: seven years, ge it makes a difference. I think that's
Speaker 2: one other thing as well that really sits in with
Speaker 2: this in a profound way for me as a parent,
Speaker 2: And it seems to resonate with a lot of parents
Speaker 2: that I talk about. Amantha. It may do the same
Speaker 2: thing for you. There's an old, old saying in the
Speaker 2: parenting literature. It's been around for decades, and that is
Speaker 2: that to a child. Love is spelled T, I M E.
Speaker 2: And if love is spelt time, I can't help but
Speaker 2: pause and wonder what hurry up says to a child?
Speaker 2: What that means to a child? My sense is that
Speaker 2: hurry up to a child something like you don't matter.
Speaker 2: It's my agenda that is king here. We are so
Speaker 2: so focused all the time on managing time. But what
Speaker 2: if I am time? What if I am the moments
Speaker 2: that occur in time because they're happening in me. What
Speaker 2: if I choose how I'm going to not use time,
Speaker 2: but how I'm going to be right now? And what
Speaker 2: will that do to my experience of this moment? What
Speaker 2: will that do to my experience of time? What will
Speaker 2: that do in terms of the relationships that my family
Speaker 2: have with me? That's kind of that's really affected the
Speaker 2: way that I think about my time or in other words,
Speaker 2: how I am with my family with my children, mornings, afternoons, evenings.
Speaker 1: Now, justin for people that are keen to connect with
Speaker 1: you and consume more of your work, what is the
Speaker 1: best way for listeners to do that?
Speaker 2: Well? I'm the co host and parenting expert on the
Speaker 2: brand new channel Line TV show Parental guidance. So basically,
Speaker 2: if you google my name, all roads from Google will
Speaker 2: lead to my Facebook page, my Instagram, my website, happyfamilies
Speaker 2: dot com dot au. I'm pretty visible on the internet
Speaker 2: and I'll be pretty easy to find.
Speaker 1: Fantastic Justin, I have learned so much. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for your.
Speaker 2: Time, Amantha. I hope it was valuable. Thank you.
Speaker 1: If you like Justin's advice, check out his podcast, Happy Families.
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorites for getting research backed and
Speaker 1: practical parenting advice. And if you're looking for more tips
Speaker 1: to improve the way that you work, I write a
Speaker 1: short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've
Speaker 1: discovered to help me work better, which range from interesting
Speaker 1: research findings through to gadgets that I'm loving. You can
Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot cop That's How
Speaker 1: I Work dot co. How I Work is produced by
Speaker 1: Inventing with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank
Speaker 1: you to Martin Nimba who does the audio mix for
Speaker 1: every episode and makes it all sound amazing. See you
Speaker 1: next time.