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Speaker 1: If you're a regular Halle Work listener, you're probably a

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Speaker 1: sucker for a morning routine, just like me, and for

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Speaker 1: good reason. When left to our own devices were surprisingly

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Speaker 1: bad at something as seemingly simple as getting fed and

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Speaker 1: heading out the door on time. So maybe by now

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Speaker 1: you've got yours perfected. You're meditating, exercising, journaling, drinking water

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Speaker 1: with a pitch of Himalayan rock salt and a squeeze

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Speaker 1: of lemon, all before your first Probadoria session at the office,

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Speaker 1: Or if you're like the rest of us, it's a

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Speaker 1: work in progress. And to add one very complex variable

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Speaker 1: to the mix, maybe you have kids. Most kids hopefully

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Speaker 1: aren't as interested in being little productivity machines as we are,

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Speaker 1: but the right start to their day is still just

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Speaker 1: as important as yours. Is best selling author and parenting

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Speaker 1: expert and host of the top ranking podcast Happy Families,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Coulson says that the solution is actually to

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Speaker 1: do less, and according to research, it can be as

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Speaker 1: simple as a four part formula to turn our mornings

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Speaker 1: with kids from messy to magic. My name is doctor

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Speaker 1: Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of

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Speaker 1: behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work

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Speaker 1: a show about how to help you do your best work.

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Speaker 1: So what are some of Justin's time saving hacks as

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Speaker 1: a working parent, especially when thinking about the mornings.

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Speaker 2: So there's probably a couple of different ways to answer this, Samantha,

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Speaker 2: and I know that I don't want to get too

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Speaker 2: deep and philosophical, but we do definitely have a couple

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Speaker 2: of those things that I'll share with you in just

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Speaker 2: a tick. Before I do that, though, I think it's

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Speaker 2: probably worth highlighting my relationship with time and how it's

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Speaker 2: changed over the years, and having children has been a

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Speaker 2: really major element to that. I used to feel like

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Speaker 2: time was a resource, and I felt like it was

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Speaker 2: my job to maximize and utilize time for the very

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Speaker 2: best of my ability, and to squander time was just

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Speaker 2: the wrong thing to do. Watching my children when they

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Speaker 2: get to live their life outside of the structures that

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Speaker 2: we place upon them for their good, of course, Amantha,

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Speaker 2: like school, for example, what I've discovered is that they

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Speaker 2: actually don't think about time, not just not in the

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Speaker 2: way that we think about time, but they actually don't

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Speaker 2: think about time at all. It isn't important to them,

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Speaker 2: it's not a thing. They're so present and so delighted

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Speaker 2: to be in whatever moment they're in with I'm not

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Speaker 2: suggesting that the future is an important that we shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be making plans, but just their ability to be there

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Speaker 2: and to enjoy that. And it's something that I've really

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Speaker 2: learned as I've considered my life. I mean, I'm getting

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Speaker 2: dangerously close to now and I'm maturing, and so Amantha,

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Speaker 2: I think that I'm what I've actually decided. And this

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Speaker 2: might sound a little bit woohoo and airy fairy, but

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Speaker 2: I've decided that I am time like I am just

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Speaker 2: made up of the moments that I have, and with

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Speaker 2: that it's helped me to be a lot more easy

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Speaker 2: with what happens. I'm still I'm still an efficiency junkie.

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Speaker 2: I still need to get things done. When I step

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Speaker 2: into the office, stuff has to be done, We've got

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Speaker 2: deadlines and all that kind of thing. But when I

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Speaker 2: step out of the office, my focus is actually less

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Speaker 2: about time and efficiency with my children and just being

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Speaker 2: with them. And that might mean that if they're having

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Speaker 2: a bad morning, as much as we have a process

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Speaker 2: for getting through the morning and making sure that well

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Speaker 2: five children or four children. Now that the oldest ones

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Speaker 2: don't need is so much, are out the door on

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Speaker 2: time and doing what they need to do. We've kind

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Speaker 2: of allowed ourselves to just be with them where they are.

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Speaker 2: We have one daughter as well who has ADHD, and

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Speaker 2: so that has also forced us to look at time

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Speaker 2: and efficiency in a completely different way. So that's a

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Speaker 2: kind of philosophical treatis before my answer. The short answer though,

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Speaker 2: is we've got a couple of things that we do.

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Speaker 2: One of the things is what we call our making

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Speaker 2: Morning's Magic system, and that's comprised of four elements. Element

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Speaker 2: number one. The morning begins the night before. So that

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Speaker 2: means that we get the kids lunch boxes organized, or

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Speaker 2: at least have them out and ready for the next day.

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Speaker 2: They've got their uniforms, is it library days? At sports day?

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Speaker 2: Do we know where their shoes are? Has a rogue

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Speaker 2: sock been left under the seat in the car as

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Speaker 2: their swimming gear ready for the next day? All that

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff. Morning begins the night before. We have

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Speaker 2: found that that is one of the most incredibly useful

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Speaker 2: things to make sure that we have smooth mornings. We

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Speaker 2: even sort of pull out the stuff for breakfast and

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Speaker 2: stick it on the kitchen bench so it's ready. That's

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Speaker 2: the first thing. The second part of the four part

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Speaker 2: process is that we wake the kids up about ten

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Speaker 2: or fifteen minutes before they need to be awake. And

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Speaker 2: what that does is a creates two things. First of all,

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Speaker 2: connection because when we wake them up, we walk into

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Speaker 2: the room gently and softly and sit with them and

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Speaker 2: give them a hug and talk to them about the

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Speaker 2: dream that we've wokened them from or what they're looking

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Speaker 2: forward to in the day. We just have two or

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Speaker 2: three minutes with each of them. It doesn't take long,

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Speaker 2: but they wake up feeling connection before we move it

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Speaker 2: to the next room and then a Mantha the critical thing.

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Speaker 2: It also creates margin because no one's rushing because we've

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Speaker 2: got an extra tenn or fifteen minutes because everyone's getting

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Speaker 2: up a little bit early. The third thing that we

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Speaker 2: do is we actually have kind of like a breakfast

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Speaker 2: and lunch system. The kids put in their breakfast order

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Speaker 2: and their lunch order by you know, when you go

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Speaker 2: to a motel, usually a cheap motel on the side

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Speaker 2: of a highway, you can do a quick tick and

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Speaker 2: flick for room service. Breakfast the next day and you

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Speaker 2: order those two pieces of thin white bread with a

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Speaker 2: couple of fried eggs that usually arrive cold and a

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Speaker 2: little bit too hard, not running en off. But you've

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Speaker 2: got that tick and flick process. So we actually us

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Speaker 2: we don't do it anymore because the kids have got

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Speaker 2: the system nailed. But to start it off, we would

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Speaker 2: get the kids to fill in their menu for breakfast

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Speaker 2: and lunch the night before, which means that when they

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Speaker 2: walk out into the kitchen, the list of what they

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Speaker 2: need to do is already there. What they're going to eat,

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Speaker 2: what they're going to prepare, how it's going to work.

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Speaker 2: And I can't tell you how amazing that is to

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Speaker 2: remove the decision making process from a tired, sleepy child's mind.

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Speaker 2: They just have to look at the piece of paper

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Speaker 2: and make that. And we've spent the time to teach

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Speaker 2: them to make it, which means that step number four

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Speaker 2: is that we don't tell them what to do. What

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Speaker 2: we do instead, as we say, hey, how are you

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Speaker 2: going with the five things that need to be done

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Speaker 2: this morning? What's next? How can I help?

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Speaker 1: That is so good. I'm taking copious notes as you're talking.

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Speaker 1: Justin I'm loving this.

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Speaker 2: We found that it's made an enormous difference, and in fact,

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Speaker 2: it was so popular that The New York Times picked

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Speaker 2: up an article that I wrote and they published it.

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Speaker 2: If people want more, you could probably just link to

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Speaker 2: the Making Morning's Magic New York Times piece that I wrote,

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Speaker 2: and it outlines precisely what those steps are and also

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Speaker 2: how it taps in with basic psychological needs that kids have.

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Speaker 2: And this is why it works because it fulfills the

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Speaker 2: need for connection. They're getting lots of that when we

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Speaker 2: wake them up nice and early and spend time with them,

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Speaker 2: but also as we say, hey, how are you going?

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Speaker 2: What help do you need? Which is connection rather than

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Speaker 2: where are your shoes? Why haven't you done this? Hurry up,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be late, which is correction and direction.

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Speaker 2: So it meets that need for connection. It satisfies the

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Speaker 2: need for autonomy because they're making lots of choices about

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Speaker 2: what they're going to eat or what they're going to

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Speaker 2: do to make the morning work. And it also satisfies

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Speaker 2: a basic psychological need for what research is called competence

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Speaker 2: because they do it themselves. We spend the time teaching

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Speaker 2: them how to make their breakfasts, how to scramble their eggs,

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Speaker 2: how to pour milk onto their week bics, and how

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Speaker 2: to get their lunch organized, which means that by the

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Speaker 2: time they're about sort of eight on nine years old,

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Speaker 2: they're doing it all on their own, which which is

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Speaker 2: just bliss for a parent who is busy and tired

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Speaker 2: and probably stayed up too late the night before watching

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Speaker 2: Netflix instead of remembering that their morning began the night

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Speaker 2: before as well.

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Speaker 1: That's very cool. I was curious around what you were saying,

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Speaker 1: just around being really present and almost losing that sense

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Speaker 1: of time and almost the artificial structure that a lot

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Speaker 1: of us can impose onto our kids. And it was funny.

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Speaker 1: It reminded me of a moment this morning with my

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Speaker 1: daughter before homeschool started, and we were playing with Lego

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Speaker 1: and I'm on a never ending mission to sort all

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Speaker 1: the Lego blocks into their appropriate colored boxes. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like that's like achieving in box zero. It might happen

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Speaker 1: for one minute and then it'll all be ruined. And

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Speaker 1: I was just I was really in flow, and I asked, Frankie,

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Speaker 1: you know, do you know what it means to be

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Speaker 1: in flow? And she said no, no, And so we're

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Speaker 1: talking about that concept, which I feel is all about

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Speaker 1: just being really present and losing yourself in the moment.

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Speaker 1: So what has helped you be present with your children?

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Speaker 1: Because I feel like that's easier said than done.

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Speaker 2: It's paradoxical, But what I've discovered is that when I

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Speaker 2: try to do it all, I feel stressed and pressured

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Speaker 2: and frustrated, and I feel like the world is moving

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Speaker 2: too fast. And the great paradox of this is I've

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Speaker 2: had to recognize that I am finite, and my time

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Speaker 2: is finite, and my capacity is finite, and that therefore

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Speaker 2: I can't do it all. And the tremendous paradox of

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Speaker 2: accepting that you can't do it all is that you

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Speaker 2: kind of sit there for a second on the sofa

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Speaker 2: and think, I'm helpless, I can't do this. But then

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Speaker 2: this remarkable thing comes out of that acceptance, and that is, well,

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Speaker 2: if I can't do it all, what will I do?

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Speaker 2: Because I Am going to do something. And it's in

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Speaker 2: that moment that you kind of get this crystal well,

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Speaker 2: if you're intentionally about it, you get this crystallization of values.

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Speaker 2: If I can't do it all this morning, in terms

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Speaker 2: of my gigantic to do list I'm supposed to. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you read all the health and wellness blogs, I'm

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Speaker 2: supposed to meditate, and I'm supposed to have my spiritual

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Speaker 2: or religious practice, and I'm supposed to exercise, and I'm

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Speaker 2: supposed to work on my to do list or my

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Speaker 2: mantras or my affirmation. So I've got to look at

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Speaker 2: my I mean, you know the bogles that I'm talking about,

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Speaker 2: and they make you feel so inadequate, because not very

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Speaker 2: many of us wake uppen with our lives like that.

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Speaker 2: And what has happened instead is I sit there like, okay,

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Speaker 2: so that's not going to work for me. So what

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Speaker 2: can I do what matters? And that's actually part of

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Speaker 2: the way we distilled our mornings. We looked at how

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Speaker 2: mornings needed to work, and we realize that our children

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Speaker 2: really have either four or five things to do. They

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Speaker 2: need to have breakfast, make their lunch, get dressed, and

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Speaker 2: do their hair and brush their teeth. And if they

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Speaker 2: can do that by a certain time, what that allows

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Speaker 2: is all the other stuff is superfluous. All the other

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Speaker 2: stuff doesn't really matter. And as we've taught them how

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Speaker 2: to do those things themselves, as we've developed their competence.

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Speaker 2: What it's meant for us is that we can actually

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Speaker 2: be in those moments with them. We don't have to

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Speaker 2: be rushing around and stressing and panicking about it. And

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Speaker 2: it just makes it makes such a difference. Now, do

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Speaker 2: we get it perfectly? Do we have calm, peaceful mornings

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Speaker 2: every morning? Now, that would be just such a such

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Speaker 2: a lie. But most mornings we actually get it eighty

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Speaker 2: or ninety percent of away.

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Speaker 1: There.

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Speaker 2: It might be our challenging child, or a child who's

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Speaker 2: had allows his sleep or woken up with a sore head,

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Speaker 2: or just got out of bed on the wrong side.

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Speaker 2: Stuff happens. Sometimes it's me or my wife, But just

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Speaker 2: pausing and being intentional about it, and having done that

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Speaker 2: heavy lifting in those early years, those first five to

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Speaker 2: seven years, ge it makes a difference. I think that's

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Speaker 2: one other thing as well that really sits in with

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Speaker 2: this in a profound way for me as a parent,

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Speaker 2: And it seems to resonate with a lot of parents

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Speaker 2: that I talk about. Amantha. It may do the same

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Speaker 2: thing for you. There's an old, old saying in the

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Speaker 2: parenting literature. It's been around for decades, and that is

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Speaker 2: that to a child. Love is spelled T, I M E.

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Speaker 2: And if love is spelt time, I can't help but

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Speaker 2: pause and wonder what hurry up says to a child?

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Speaker 2: What that means to a child? My sense is that

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Speaker 2: hurry up to a child something like you don't matter.

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Speaker 2: It's my agenda that is king here. We are so

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Speaker 2: so focused all the time on managing time. But what

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Speaker 2: if I am time? What if I am the moments

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Speaker 2: that occur in time because they're happening in me. What

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Speaker 2: if I choose how I'm going to not use time,

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Speaker 2: but how I'm going to be right now? And what

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Speaker 2: will that do to my experience of this moment? What

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Speaker 2: will that do to my experience of time? What will

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Speaker 2: that do in terms of the relationships that my family

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Speaker 2: have with me? That's kind of that's really affected the

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Speaker 2: way that I think about my time or in other words,

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Speaker 2: how I am with my family with my children, mornings, afternoons, evenings.

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Speaker 1: Now, justin for people that are keen to connect with

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Speaker 1: you and consume more of your work, what is the

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Speaker 1: best way for listeners to do that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I'm the co host and parenting expert on the

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Speaker 2: brand new channel Line TV show Parental guidance. So basically,

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Speaker 2: if you google my name, all roads from Google will

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Speaker 2: lead to my Facebook page, my Instagram, my website, happyfamilies

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Speaker 2: dot com dot au. I'm pretty visible on the internet

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Speaker 2: and I'll be pretty easy to find.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic Justin, I have learned so much. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for your.

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Speaker 2: Time, Amantha. I hope it was valuable. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: If you like Justin's advice, check out his podcast, Happy Families.

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Speaker 1: It's one of my favorites for getting research backed and

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Speaker 1: practical parenting advice. And if you're looking for more tips

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Speaker 1: to improve the way that you work, I write a

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Speaker 1: short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've

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Speaker 1: discovered to help me work better, which range from interesting

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Speaker 1: research findings through to gadgets that I'm loving. You can

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Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot cop That's How

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Speaker 1: I Work dot co. How I Work is produced by

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Speaker 1: Inventing with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank

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Speaker 1: you to Martin Nimba who does the audio mix for

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Speaker 1: every episode and makes it all sound amazing. See you

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Speaker 1: next time.