1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,160 Speaker 1: It is time for the week that was, and we 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: have got an action packed morning lined up for you 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: this morning. Joining us in the studio is the Speaker 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: of the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly. She's also the Independent 5 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: member for Ara Lewin. Robin Lamley, good morning, Good morning Katie. 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Lovely to have you on the show. And we have 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: also got the Minister for Children and Families and various 8 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: other portfolios. Robin Carl good morning to you. 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and good morning everybody out there. 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: We've got Matt Cunningham from Sky News, Good morning. 11 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: Mats, morning Katie. 12 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: And on the line from Catherine this morning, the Opposition 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: leader Selena Rubo, Good morning to you. 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, Good morning to you listeners. Big shout 15 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 3: out to running Katown this morning. 16 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show. And I'll tell 17 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: you what it's been a busy week. We began the 18 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 1: week with the Chief Minister saying it was clear the 19 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Police Commissioner Michael Murphy apm's position was untenable, confirming that 20 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: he'd lost the confidence of the government. The Chief Minister 21 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: gave the commission the opportunity to resign and asked him 22 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: to go and leave effective immediately, also saying that she'd 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: begun the process to terminate the appointment of the Police Commissioner. 24 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: Now the process requires natural justice to Michael Murphy, she 25 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: said at the time, and involves Cabinet executive counsel and 26 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: advice to the administrator on termination. The NT News now 27 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: reporting that Michael Murphy has secured the services of a 28 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: top Australian lawyer, Morris Blackburn principal lawyer Josh Bornstein. I 29 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: believe is how you pronounce it now, a Morics Blackburn spokesperson, 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: confirming to the paper that mister Murphy had retained mister Borstein, 31 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: a reputed employment lawyer with one of the country's largest 32 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: non criminal law firms. I mean, is this an indication 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: that this could get a little bit messy? 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: Yes, I think. 35 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 4: There's a one leg in duck swim in a circle. 36 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 5: Yes, this was bound to happen. I think that the 37 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 5: precedent's been set by former distinguished people public servants. Jamie 38 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 5: Chalker was one. He sought legal counsel very quickly in 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 5: his problems with the then Chief Minister Natasha Phile. So 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 5: we're seeing history repeat itself. But Katie, I think we 41 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 5: need to make some changes in this space around high 42 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 5: level public servants being found to have engaged in misconduct 43 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 5: or corruption. I don't think that we have a tight 44 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 5: enough system here because if we're going down the track 45 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 5: of another golden handshake for the current police commissioner, no 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 5: one's going to be very happy about that. 47 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: Do you mean in terms of the IKIC or do 48 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: you mean in terms of the contracts in which are 49 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: being drawn up both. 50 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it has to be a lot tighter, 51 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 5: I said. I spoke on the media las week about 52 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 5: the fact that I even think the upper echelons of 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 5: the police should be outsourced to another jurisdiction because we're 54 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 5: so close, we're so the separation does not exist, and 55 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 5: we're just seeing this the upper layers of the public service. 56 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 5: We've seen it happen with IKAK with the police. They're 57 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 5: undoing themselves, They're becoming involved in activities they shouldn't. So 58 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 5: we have to do things about it going forward. 59 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 4: And I think there are issues you touched on the IKAK. 60 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 4: Everything the iyekack has touched basically since it began in 61 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 4: twenty eighteen has turned sour and there's going to be 62 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 4: an interesting argument an interesting legal argument in this case 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 4: because Michael Murphy's termination is based on this IKAK report 64 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 4: that no one has seen or were doing. The Chief 65 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 4: Minutes has seen it, but else no one else has 66 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 4: seen anything other than a two page public statement that 67 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 4: doesn't really go into the details, just you know, it's anonymized. 68 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: It says that there was I think the word is 69 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 4: unsatisfactory conduct, and that there was negligence and incompetence, But 70 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 4: we as the public don't know the details of that, 71 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: and so it's hard to really judge. The Chief Minister 72 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 4: obviously eventually took action, took action when the threat was 73 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: made to name Michael Murphy in Parliament, and then he 74 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 4: subsequently added himself. But you know, there's going to be 75 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,799 Speaker 4: some interesting questions that happen if this legal fight goes 76 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 4: all away, and I think it probably won't. I think 77 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 4: there'll probably be a settlement before it reaches it, like we. 78 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 5: Saw two years ago. 79 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 2: Look, I think just one thing. He hasn't been accused 80 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: of corruption, so I think we misconduct, misconduct and negligence, 81 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 2: So there's that. I think there's another aspect of this. 82 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: There's definitely work to be done in the IKAC space. 83 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 2: Territorians have paid thirty five million dollars for this agency 84 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 2: since its inception, which is a lot of money, and 85 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: as Matty just said, we've not seen them do anything 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: that's been proactively beneficial. 87 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean in this case. So they did their jobs. 88 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: But they also created a situation where they dropped a 89 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: story where no one could actually give the context or 90 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 2: the comment. So if and you know, I find it 91 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: a little bit interesting that there was a member of 92 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: Parliament who was going to name this person under the 93 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 2: privilege of parliament, and this person being such a fierce 94 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: advocate for integrity and following the law, when we'd made 95 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: it really clear that the law didn't allow us to 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: say who it was publicly. So I think there's some 97 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 2: problems there in the whole Eyekac process. We've absolutely said 98 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: that we need to look at that and review it 99 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 2: and make sure that whatever is happening in that space 100 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: is actually working to the benefit of the territory, not 101 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: to the detriment. And quite frankly, I think all we've 102 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: seen so far is detriment to the territory around that space. 103 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: And on the Commissioner having legal advice, that's the normal 104 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: process for natural justice. I think anyone who's been an employer, 105 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: anyone who's worked in the HR space, that's not an 106 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: unusual step to take because as individuals we're not expert 107 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: in that space. And of course you're going to seek 108 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: some advice. So is it entitled to do. And no 109 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: decision has been major. The process will follow its course 110 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: and you know, we'll see where it lands. 111 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 4: Given the issues you've outlined with the IKAK though, and 112 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 4: that everything it's done has been to the detriment of 113 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 4: the territory, how can you then rely on a report 114 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 4: that we haven't seen in a public statement from the 115 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 4: same organization to take the hugely serious step of terminating 116 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 4: the position of the police commissioner. 117 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think the issue in that space is that 118 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: the IKAK made a statement that didn't say who the 119 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: person was, and then Commissioner said it was me. And 120 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: when you look at that person in that very senior role, 121 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: the issue here is he's taken steps in a process 122 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: that don't fit with what you would expect of somebody 123 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: at that level. So that's where the confidence has been lost. 124 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: Because the person at the head of every agency is 125 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: the person who sets the standard for the agency. He 126 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: has the opportunity to provide a response on that. He's 127 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: going to give us, you know, his side of how 128 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: things were. I haven't seen the report. That's not something 129 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: I'm privy to. You know, we've only seen what everybody 130 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: else says. 131 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: So if he's. 132 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 4: Given the opportunity to give his side, are you suggesting 133 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 4: or indicating that the government's confidence that's been lost might 134 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 4: potentially be restored. 135 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that everybody deserves the right of replying. 136 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: He's been given that right of reply, and you know 137 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: you've just said yourself, no one's seen the detail of 138 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: the report. 139 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 4: Well, I presume the Chief Minister has I presume that 140 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 4: the report went to the Chief Minister and who's also 141 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 4: the Police minister. 142 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: So I think natural justice has to be served. Everybody 143 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: is entitled to that, and we don't know what's going 144 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: to come. 145 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 4: Those natural justice come before the termination. 146 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: Well, well, what we've said is there's a process that 147 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: will be followed and the decision will be made once 148 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: the process is complete. 149 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 5: But the press release that came out set out what 150 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 5: the allegations were, what the findings were, not not in 151 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 5: any great detail, but he he they painted a picture 152 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 5: of him engaging in misconduct. It was a very straightforward 153 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 5: case on the surface. None of us have read the 154 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 5: report apart from the Chief Minister, but it was enough 155 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 5: for him to be forced to name himself and it 156 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 5: was enough for the police, the Minister for Police is 157 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 5: the Chief Minister to ask for his resignation. So, although 158 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 5: natural justice is something that we all should be provided 159 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 5: or there's a little bit more to it than what 160 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 5: you're sort of suggesting, Robin, I think we're a little 161 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 5: bit further down the track than keeping an open mind 162 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 5: with this. He's done something wrong. The IKAK has stated that, 163 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 5: the Chief Minister has basically acknowledged that, and he's acknowledged 164 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 5: that by naming himself and lawyering us. 165 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: Well, I do want to just tead across to Selena Rubo. Selena, 166 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: during the week, I mean, you had really questioned the 167 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: Chief Minister's leadership on this situation. Where do you stand 168 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: now that she's announced the review into the executive. 169 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, O, Katie, Let's be clear, the IKAK has done 170 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 3: its job in this situation. It's outlined those areas of 171 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 3: concern publicly in the summary report that as Matt has said, 172 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 3: all that we've been privy to in the public domain. 173 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: But it's also created the very clear path I think 174 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: to show the leadership of the Chief Minister has been 175 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 3: dismal in this respect. There's been nothing front footed from 176 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 3: the Chief Minister on this particular high public matter interest area, 177 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 3: and we've seen nothing but either backpedaling or a response, 178 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 3: a reactive response when the pressure has mounted from the community, 179 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 3: from the media on the Chief Minister, as we know 180 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 3: is also the Police Minister lif Nokiaio. So we've seen 181 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 3: nothing to show territoriens that this has been a serious issue. 182 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: I mean, at first she basically fobbed it off and 183 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 3: tried to say nothing to see here, and then again 184 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 3: that pressure has mounted and then bit by bit it's unraveled. 185 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: So I think that's been a very clear outcome to 186 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: show well, I think that lack accurate and leadership. Well, 187 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: we've got soliday for the last twelve days. 188 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: We've got a situation where the Kak legislation says you 189 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 2: cannot name the person. 190 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: So just one that robin. Section fifty five of the 191 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 3: Ikak legislation says the Ikak cannot name individuals other than members. 192 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 5: Of the Legislati believe said that the Chief Minister can't 193 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,439 Speaker 5: name them, and we've. 194 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 3: Been asking for that Solicitor General advice that the Chief 195 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 3: Minister says she received to legally see if there are 196 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 3: gaps and of course to understand what there. 197 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: Are meditation we're going. 198 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: We have never seen that legislation. Accuse me, that legal 199 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 3: advice on the legislation that Chief Minister has been privy to, 200 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 3: and we said, well, let's see it so we can 201 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 3: understand more and then if there are improvements to the IKAK, 202 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 3: they're the areas that we know the cost. 203 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: I do think it's I do think there needs to 204 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: be a really clear line here as to whether a 205 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: public servant can or cannot be named at a certain level, 206 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: or you know, there needs to be some clear directive 207 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: or some clear, I don't know, clear guidelines. Because have 208 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: we been in a situation where a Chief Minister came 209 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: out and named somebody, Well, she'd be damned if she 210 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: did that. Then if you flounder and don't take action, 211 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, the public isn't happy about that either. I 212 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: know I probably go against you know, popular, popular, you 213 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: know voice on this, but I sort of think she 214 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: has actually she's taken advice, she stood back, She's reviewed 215 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: her options, and then she's come forward with a plan. 216 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: I mean the plan is to obviously review now executive 217 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: appointments as well. You know, like I think what we're 218 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: in right now is quite the mess given the fact 219 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: that you know that we are talking about here, you 220 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: know what could be deemed a HR issue, a conflict 221 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: of interest absolutely, But would it be as messy as 222 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: it currently is? Do you think, Matt, had we not 223 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: been in a situation just a couple of years ago, 224 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: which you've written about very extensively this morning in the 225 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: Northern Territory News. You know where Colleen Gwynn was forced 226 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: into the situation that she was in what many would 227 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: see as quite a similar situation. 228 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 4: Some would even argue a more trivial issue, Katie, because 229 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 4: in Colin Gwinn's case, she refused herself from sitting on 230 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 4: the selection panel and declared a conflict of interest to 231 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 4: her superiors and sought advice from the HR director of 232 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 4: the Department of Attorney in General and Justice, who sought 233 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 4: advice from the Solicitor General's Office, all of which was 234 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 4: known and known by police who still ran an eighteen 235 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 4: month investigation into her that there's an issue where with 236 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 4: and you know, there's a massive issue with the IKAK 237 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 4: and the way the IKAK has been operating, and the 238 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 4: IKAK is so tarnished by things it's done and its 239 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 4: past that even I think if it does things correctly 240 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 4: now people are just up in ours because then you 241 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: do the comparison, you go, well, how come in this 242 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 4: case the IKAQ went ballistic put out a fifty page 243 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 4: report named Everyone under the Sun, and in this case 244 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 4: it's offering anonymity and saying, oh, this should be an 245 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 4: educational piece. You know, the contrast there is really difficult 246 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 4: for the public to swallow. And the contrast I think 247 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 4: between Colin Gwinn's treatment, you know, subject to a three 248 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 4: year investigation put for the court, you know, has their 249 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 4: office bugged everything else that was done to her ruined 250 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 4: her life basically to the point where she even thought 251 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 4: about taking her own life, as opposed to a very 252 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 4: similar situation, if not more serious, that goes to the 253 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 4: IKAC and comes out in an anonymized report that says 254 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: it's an educational tool. I just don't know how you 255 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 4: can how people can be comfortable with the looking at 256 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 4: those two cases and saying we handle one case like 257 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 4: this and we handled the other one like this, it 258 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 4: just doesn't And. 259 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, and that's why we absolutely have to 260 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: have we have to look at the framework. We have 261 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: to ask those questions. As somebody who wasn't involved in 262 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 2: government at the time and watching as an employer, watching 263 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: one unfolded with Colleen Gwyn was incredibly baffling because on 264 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: the surface it certainly looked like it was a really 265 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: poor HR decision and how that ended up where it 266 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: did so. And then we look at what's happening with 267 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: Commissioner Rich, which is currently there's all of this process 268 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: that is not a process, and we absolutely have to 269 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: get it sorted. And I think this has just brought 270 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: it to the fore. We've certainly there was certainly something 271 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 2: that was on our agenda going forward because what had 272 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: happened in the past with Colleen, what had happened in 273 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: the past, or what was currently underway with the current 274 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 2: commissioner of ICAC meant it clearly isn't functioning the way 275 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: it's meant to function. What is its intention, what's it 276 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: supposed to be achieving, Where is it supposed to be 277 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: heading and I don't think anyone can look at it 278 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: and get a clear picture on that. So we absolutely 279 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: committed to working to get that sorted out and make 280 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: sure that anyone who may have contact from the IKAK 281 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 2: in the future understands exactly what they can expect. 282 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: Look, obviously, the IKAK is, you know, a huge part 283 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: of this story and of this discussion. But the other 284 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: part of this discussion is indeed the fact that the 285 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: government's now announced an independent inquiry into recent senior police recruitments. 286 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: This inquiry is going to be facilitated through the Office 287 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: of the Commissioner for Public Employment and led by the 288 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: Honorable Acting Justice Alan blow Aoh. I mean, do we 289 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: think that this is the right move in terms of 290 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: giving police some clarity, getting them through this period of review, 291 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: making sure that you know that everybody in those positions 292 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: absolutely should be in those positions, and being able to 293 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: move forward. 294 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: Well, the Police Association have raised the issue. They've said 295 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: that they want clarity and they want to make sure 296 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: that everybody is comfortable that everybody is in the role 297 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: that they're in because they are there on merit and deservedly. 298 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: So I think the most important thing that we have 299 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: to state in this is that our police do an 300 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: amazing job. They work in a really tough environment. They're 301 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: working really hard to keep territory and safe and make 302 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: sure that we as a community feel confident in what 303 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 2: they're doing. They're fantastic people. If there's anything that makes 304 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: anyone be concerned about that, it has to be clarified. 305 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: And having heard from the Police Association Nathan Finn that 306 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: he had you know that his members were concerned in 307 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: this space, then the best way to do it is 308 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 2: just clear the air and get somebody independent to come 309 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 2: in review everything and go Yep, nothing to see here, 310 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 2: or this could have been done better. We will see 311 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 2: that review, we'll get the report, and then we can 312 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: move forward on that. 313 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 5: Well. I think what's happened with Murphy has opened a 314 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 5: whole can of worms which people have been wanting to 315 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 5: see the lid open for a long long time. This 316 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 5: is the thin edge of the wedge. I think that 317 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 5: doing this review is a nice way of approaching it. 318 00:17:54,480 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 5: It's probably predictable, but the appetite for reform within the 319 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 5: police is massive and its stems I think from the 320 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 5: whole zach Rolf case. There's been rumblings and dissatisfaction for many, 321 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 5: many years now, and I think that the demand for 322 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 5: reform from top to bottom in the police force is 323 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 5: going to come crashing down on the Minister for Police, 324 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 5: who is Leofanocchiaro, the chief Minister. She's trying to manage this. 325 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 5: There's a good reason why former chief ministers have flicked 326 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 5: the police portfolio to someone else, because it is a 327 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 5: very very difficult portfolio to manage. We saw Gunna do it, 328 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 5: we saw Adam Giles do it. There is Alison Nicole Manison. 329 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 5: There's no votes in being the Minister for Police because 330 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 5: it is fraught with these very difficult things and we're 331 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 5: just seeing starting to emerge now. But it's also the 332 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 5: public face of how this will be managed and changed. 333 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 5: And I think the reason why Leah Forinochiiro took so 334 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 5: long to respond is to give herself time to do 335 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 5: this right. Because Natasha Files botched the dismissal of Jamie 336 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 5: Chalker less than two years ago. That's on the public record. 337 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 5: She lost confidence in Jamie Chalker, not because of an 338 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 5: Eyecak report. He wasn't found to have been corrupted or 339 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 5: engaged in misconduct like Murphy, but he had lost the 340 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 5: confidence of the Chief Minister for a whole range of reasons, 341 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,719 Speaker 5: and she stuffed it up. And we will never know 342 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 5: what that golden handshake looked like, how much it was. 343 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 5: But Leah is wise enough to learn from the past 344 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 5: and take some time. So although I hear Selena say 345 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 5: she's stuffed around and taken a time and hasn't sort 346 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 5: of met the public expectation around time frames, I say, 347 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 5: take your timely. If it's going to save us, the 348 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 5: public of the Northern poetry potentially millions of dollars, Take 349 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 5: as long as you need. 350 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: Look and on that. Anyone who's been an employer, anyone 351 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 2: who's worked in this space knows you can't be reactive. 352 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: You have to do as Robin has said, you have 353 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: to make sure you know exactly what the situation is, 354 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 2: exactly what you can do within the framework of legislation 355 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 2: and law, and make sure you get it right. And 356 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 2: I think the reason the Chief Minister took on the 357 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 2: Minister this portfolio is because she does understand how important 358 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: it is and she wanted to make sure that it 359 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 2: was the forefront of what we're doing and that we 360 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: do get it right. 361 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 4: I think Robin's point about this being the thin end 362 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 4: of the wedge is a really important one because this 363 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 4: is just going to be a review that goes back 364 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 4: to August twenty twenty three and look at the appointments 365 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 4: that happened under Murphy. And yes, I think that's warranted, 366 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 4: but whether that's enough, because I'm not sure that this 367 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 4: is not And what's being alleged here is you know, 368 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 4: we're calling it the jobs for Mate scandal or whatever, 369 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 4: but you know, it could be it's about people putting 370 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 4: people they want into positions and subverting the process that's 371 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 4: supposed to be there, right And I'm not sure that 372 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 4: over time that's been limited to the Northern Territory Police, 373 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 4: and I'm not sure it's been limited to that time frame. 374 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,239 Speaker 4: So you know, we can have a look at this 375 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 4: little period here, but I think it might be just 376 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 4: the opening of a much bigger can of worm. 377 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: In terms of other departments oments. 378 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 4: I mean, I'll talk about this example because I know 379 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 4: it backwards, but look at Ken Middlebrook. He labor loves 380 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 4: to beat up at the moment, right who after leaving 381 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 4: the Northern Territory because he couldn't get a job here 382 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 4: applies for a job as the superintendent of the Darwin Prison, 383 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 4: a job for which he is overqualified. He's worked in 384 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 4: corrections for thirty years, right, there is not a more 385 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 4: qualified person to do that job. He applies for the position, 386 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 4: there's an independent panel that sits, he is found and 387 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 4: the documents show this to be the outstanding candidate for 388 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 4: that job. And then mysteriously it all gets scrapped and 389 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 4: they start again and someone else gets the job. 390 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: Labor didn't mind ever, I mean, Selena, is that the 391 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: case has has you know, has Labor been guilty of, 392 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, going through interesting recruitment processes. I guess to 393 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: put it mildly. 394 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 3: O Katie, I think like the discussion around the proper 395 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: process and recruitment is an extremely important one. What you 396 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 3: know other members of the panel have spoken about is 397 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 3: what territories really want to see. They want to see 398 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 3: fair and just processes around recruitment. Something our Labor Opposition 399 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 3: supports is that independent inquiry. We know that police want 400 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: to restore confidence and trust in integrity, particularly at that 401 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 3: high level of the police leadership, so something that we 402 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: absolutely support. I think that this will provide that opportunity 403 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 3: for I guess another level of scrutiny at those decisions 404 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 3: that have been made. But I'm also hearing Katie through 405 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,479 Speaker 3: some of my networks that some of our hard working 406 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 3: police are also wanting other positions to be looked at. 407 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 3: So it'll be interesting to see if the government does 408 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 3: expand to I guess meet the expectation of some of 409 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: the police members who do want to see an expansion 410 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 3: into that inquiry. 411 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: But also other appointments. What do which. 412 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 3: As in other positions, so not just the ones that 413 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 3: have been outlined announced by the Chief Minister, so senior positions, 414 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 3: but not in the scope of what's currently been put 415 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 3: out in the inquiry. So if this be interesting to 416 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: see if the government is willing to expand that, and 417 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: also will the inquiry and the report and the findings 418 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: be made public. That's what I'd like to know as well, Katie. 419 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: I do think it was said in the pressurelease that 420 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: it's the Chief Minister's in for that to be presented 421 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: to Parliament. So look, I've got her on the show 422 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: on Monday, so I'll certainly ask that we are going 423 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 1: to have to take a really quick break. You are 424 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. It 425 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: is the week that was well. If you have just 426 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: joined us in the studio this morning, we've got Robin Lamley, 427 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: Robin Carl, Matt Cunningham and on the line in Catherine, 428 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: we've got Selena Ubo. Now we know that it's been 429 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: a busy week, or it certainly always is a pretty 430 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: busy week, I think when we talk about prisoner numbers, 431 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: but this week's been an interesting one for a raft 432 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: of reasons. We know this morning it's being reported the 433 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: ABS has confirmed the Northern Territories experiencing record prisoner numbers. 434 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: In the Northern Territory, Matthew Varley joined us on the 435 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: show yesterday. He said, including watchhouse numbers, we're at around 436 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: two thousand to eight hundred MI. Understanding is that's the 437 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: highest I think we've just about ever been. In addition 438 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: to that, though we know that the Northern Territory, well 439 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: we experienced and we still do as I understand it, 440 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: we still do have a prisoner on the run or 441 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: certainly someone who has escaped custody. So the Northern Territory 442 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: Police had said that they do not believe a serious 443 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: violent offender who escaped from custody on Tuesday night poses 444 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: a risk to the general public, despite police on the 445 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: ground searching for the individual and being told that he 446 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: may be armed, violent and mentally ill. That is according 447 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: to a report by the Australian newspaper. Now on Wednesday morning, 448 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: we obviously got a statement from the Northern Territory Police 449 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: saying that the man had absconded through a window from well, 450 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: we were told from a correctional center. We now know 451 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: that's the Forensic Disability cottages at the Darwin Correctional Center. 452 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: My understanding, based on that discussion with Matthew Valley yesterday 453 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: is that's actually managed by the Department of Health, is 454 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: my understanding. He did have an ankle monitoring bracelet on 455 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: that was cut off. Failing to locate the twenty one 456 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: year old, Northern Territory Police obviously calling for help from 457 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory public. Now hopefully Crystal's listening and is 458 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: able to give me a thumbs up, but I believe 459 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: that he's still missing. He's still on the run at 460 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: this point in time. There's a lot that we can't 461 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: say about his former offending because it was when he 462 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: was a youth wasn't it. 463 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 4: Mass That's right, I think so, Katie, Yes so, But 464 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 4: it's a worrying situation. 465 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: Nonetheless, it certainly is. I mean, I don't think anybody 466 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: wants to see somebody who is supposed to be in 467 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: custody on the run worrying as well. If we're being 468 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: told that he doesn't pose a risk, but then the 469 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: police are being told to be extra cautious because he 470 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: may be armed and potentially dangerous. 471 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 2: So the police absolutely are out there searching for this person, 472 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: and we know that they've got a pretty good track 473 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 2: recorded tracking people down, so we have every confidence that 474 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: they will locate him and return him to that facility 475 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 2: and he will get the ongoing care that he needs. 476 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 4: Are you confident and he doesn't present a risk to 477 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 4: the public. 478 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 2: I know all the information I have is what's been 479 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: released by the police. They're confident that he doesn't, so 480 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: we you know, trusting that advice, and they're really they 481 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 2: are out there looking for him. They will obviously have 482 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 2: information about where he's likely to be. That's usually something 483 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: that is available to the police, and I'm certain that 484 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 2: they will locate him in the not too distant future. 485 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: Selena, what do you make of the situation. I mean, 486 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: do you reckon it's a worry that you know that 487 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: we as a public are being told he's not a danger, 488 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: but then obviously the police being urged to be quite cautious. Nonetheless, 489 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: you know, if he's meant to be in a facility, 490 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: you would hope that that's where he is. 491 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always a worry if there's a risk to 492 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 3: the public. Katie. There was also a prisoner that escaped 493 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 3: from the Alla Springs Chrection Center, I think earlier this 494 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 3: week I read in the media release. So, I mean 495 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 3: this is a huge issue around the pressures on our 496 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 3: correction system. I know that the COLP has said that 497 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 3: there's more infrastructure, that's more support, but you know we're 498 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 3: not going to necessarily see any of those changes and 499 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 3: tell what they've promised is delivered, So we may see 500 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 3: more incidents of this, but I think community safety obviously 501 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 3: always has to be paramount. I think the warnings are 502 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 3: out from the police and I hope that they find 503 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 3: this missing prisoner very very soon. 504 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: Well, look, it does come on the same week that 505 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: the Minister for Corrections, Jared Maylee, said that the government's focused, 506 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: of course on making sure the correctional system have the infrastructure, 507 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: resources and workforce to support and manage rising custodial demands. 508 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: So we now know that since coming online in December, 509 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: bremer Correctional Center is now being expanded to accommodate more 510 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: than three hundred and ten extra prisoners. The additional infrastructure 511 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: is progressing well ahead of schedule, the government says. Additionally, 512 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: one hundred plus bed temporary demountables at the Berima Correctional 513 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: Center are now online. Another forty eight beds are expected 514 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: to be operational by the end of the month. We've 515 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: also seen correctional staff move out of the watchhouses a 516 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: bit of aljibaji or a bit of discussion, I guess 517 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: you'd say yesterday on the show speaking to the Police 518 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: Association saying Katie, yep, the staff have moved up, but 519 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: we've still got prisoners in there. Robin, what's your take 520 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: on that? 521 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: So I just followed on that up on that because 522 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: I did hear that discussion yesterday. So essentially in Palmerston 523 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: and the Darwin Catherine area, the prisoners who were under 524 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 2: the control of corrections offices have been moved out. There 525 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: are still some prisoners in those watchhouses who are in 526 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 2: police custody. In Alice Springs, there are still some prisoners 527 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: there who were in corrections custody. They are being trained 528 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 2: positioned out. So yesterday there were sixty one prisoners in 529 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: the al Springs watchhouse. They move twenty five yesterday, and 530 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 2: they're moving more out today and progressing that through. It's 531 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: you know, obviously, when you're moving prisoners from one space 532 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: the other, you've got to make sure you do it 533 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 2: carefully and properly and so that the transition works the 534 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 2: way you want it to. And you're not going to 535 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: be moving one hundred people, for example, all in one hit, 536 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: so you want to make sure everything is settled when 537 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 2: you move the next lot through. So I know that 538 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 2: corrections offices are working really hard with police to make 539 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 2: sure that that happens and will there will always be 540 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: prisoners in watch houses because that essentially is potentially their 541 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 2: purpose to people who are taken into custody police have 542 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 2: the option is to have them in police custody and 543 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 2: then when the point in time where they get transferred 544 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: to corrections, the goal would be that they then get 545 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 2: transferred to a correctional facility and bringing online that additional infrastructure. 546 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: Is what is happening to ensure that that can happen instrumental? 547 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 5: Right, Certainly a boom industry, isn't it. I think it 548 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 5: is the boom industry. 549 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 2: Do you want them on the street? Do you want 550 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: them in prison? And I think the answer to that's 551 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 2: pretty obvious. 552 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 5: It'd be hard to keep tabs on twenty eight hundred people. 553 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: You know, I thought to myself yesterday when I was 554 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: interviewing the Corrections Commissioner Matthew Valley, I thought, he is 555 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: literally in managing a small town, you know, he is 556 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: managing people of all you know, and all of the 557 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: correctional yes, and all of the correctional stuff, you know, 558 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: everybody that works across these facilities doing you know, like 559 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: I think they're doing a bloody good job considering that 560 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: they're the only population in the Northern Territory that's growing, 561 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, like it's it's literally the only place where 562 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: we're seeing those numbers go up. And rightly so, as 563 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: you said, Robert, you know, people don't want to see 564 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: dangerous people on the street. 565 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: You know, we were very firm about dangerous violent offenders 566 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: shouldn't be on the street. They should be in custody, 567 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 2: and interestingly, Victoria this week has announced they're going to 568 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: take exactly the same approach. So I think, you know, 569 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 2: people have got to the point where it's not okay 570 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 2: for violent offenders to be released on bail. It's not 571 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: okay for community not to feel safe, and there's a 572 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: consequence of that, and that is that we have to 573 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 2: work through the demand pro problem. 574 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: That's a really interesting point actually that you raised about Victoria, 575 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,959 Speaker 1: and I know even earlier in the week we were 576 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: speaking about some of the offending that we've seen in 577 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: the top end over the last few days, and Robin Lamley, 578 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure in Alice Springs it's a similar situation. But 579 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: we spoke to Dale Walter Barnard from Strikeforce Trident and 580 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: he'd said he'd talked me through a number of people 581 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: that have been arrested for various different vehicle thefts. The 582 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: volume of them that are actually on bail is astronomical. 583 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: You know, like you just think to yourself, how are 584 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,239 Speaker 1: we in a situation where people are on bail and 585 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: then they're then out stealing land cruisers, you know, stealing 586 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: car in some cases last week, ramming police cars. It 587 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: just begs belief. 588 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 4: And then you talk about the morale of our hard 589 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 4: working police, and I've never heard so many people in 590 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 4: my life as I've heard this week, say what a 591 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 4: great job our police do. I mean here here, right. 592 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 4: But there are two things I reckon that would affect 593 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 4: my morale if I was a police officer, and one 594 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 4: would be seeing someone who I didn't think was meritorious 595 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 4: being promoted ahead of me, And the other one would 596 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 4: be having to chase around people again and again and 597 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 4: again for the same issue at my potential, at the 598 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 4: expense of my potential well being and potential physical harm 599 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 4: because they keep being let go. 600 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: It needs to tighten up, There's no doubt about it. 601 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,959 Speaker 2: I think one of the things that we're seeing is 602 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 2: where we identified as we're coming running the election campaign, 603 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: where the pressure points were. But what we're seeing as 604 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: we implement those legislative changes, there are other pressure points 605 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: that are emerging and we will deal with it as 606 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: as they emerge. 607 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: I mean, are we in a situation I did ask 608 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: the Chief Minister about this a couple of weeks ago, 609 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: going through the Youth Justice Act, I mean, does it 610 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 1: need a full review? 611 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 2: It absolutely does, because we know, for example, it's been 612 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 2: one of my regular comments is that juveniles who are 613 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 2: put the option of diversionary programs can just go, no, 614 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it. So you absolutely need 615 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 2: to change that, and we are changing that. So I say, well, 616 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 2: that's really unfortunate, but you are going to do that. 617 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 2: It's manday. 618 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 4: So what's the consequence at the moment if they're giving 619 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 4: youth the version then they say I'm not going to 620 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 4: do it. 621 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 2: There is There isn't one, which is why we're changing it. 622 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: So are there programs because Selena, I know that Chancey 623 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: Peig had been really firm in saying that they weren't 624 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, that they weren't going to make changes, particularly 625 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: when it came to the criminal age of responsibility, until 626 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: there were programs in place. So I mean, I'm assuming 627 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: you guys had some programs running. 628 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, there were programs, Katie, And obviously there's a list 629 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 3: and not be very hard to believe that if Robin 630 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 3: doesn't know what those programs are. But just listening to 631 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 3: the discussion Katie and the pressure points on correction, the 632 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 3: great work that we know police are doing in the 633 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 3: community under some very difficult circumstances. Some of the most 634 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 3: violent offenders in the Northern Territory are perpetrators of domestic 635 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 3: and family violence. So really love to hear from Robin 636 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,439 Speaker 3: as the responsible Minister what other mechanisms are they going 637 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 3: to be under her portfolio to support the work of 638 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 3: the police to reduce the pressure of the correction system 639 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 3: when it's focused on those domestic and family and sexual 640 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 3: violence prevention sector. The money that was requested by the sector, 641 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 3: the money that the CP hasn't started rolling out, and 642 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 3: basically sounds like we'll refuse to roll out when we're 643 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 3: talking about Selena. 644 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. 645 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 3: As we speaks, the highest rate of violent offending that 646 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 3: we see day in day out in our communities right 647 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 3: across the NT, whether you're in a town, a city, 648 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 3: a rural regional era or a remote area, is linked 649 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 3: to domestic and family violence. I'd love to know that. 650 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 2: Look, I think one of the things we absolutely have 651 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 2: to acknowledge is that the work on the front line 652 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 2: is extraordinary. The people who are out there on the 653 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 2: front line are doing an amazing job, whether it's a police, 654 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 2: whether it's domestic service providers, whatever it is. And as 655 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 2: I said, so I'm not quite sure where you've been 656 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 2: for the last month, but we have rolled out the 657 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 2: thirty six mil. It is coming out in the budget process. 658 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 2: I've met with most of the providers. I've let them 659 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 2: know that we are working very closely with them to 660 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 2: make sure that we get this right. So we're making 661 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 2: sure that well, we're making sure that those services that 662 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 2: are funded already to the end of the year. And 663 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 2: we've also put in place. We've expanded the corresponding model, 664 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 2: which was one of the recommendations from the Coronial from 665 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 2: the Coronial Service, the Coronial Finding. So that's that corresponding 666 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 2: model has been expanded. At the moment, it's operating in 667 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 2: both the day it's operating in Darwin's, operating in Alice Springs, 668 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 2: Palmeston and Catherine, and we're rolling it forward into Tenant 669 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 2: and to Norman Boy. Obviously there's some other components that 670 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 2: need to go with that. I think the thing that 671 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 2: we really have to acknowledge is that you can't keep 672 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 2: doing things the same way. You have to change things. 673 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 2: So what we need to do is, yes, there are 674 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 2: a significantly higher number of proportion of offenders in the 675 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 2: system who are domestic violence offenders, it's around sixty seven percent. 676 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 2: That is that's a clear demonstration of the failure of 677 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 2: what happened under the previous government. What you can't keep 678 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 2: doing the same thing and expect a different response. So 679 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 2: that's why we're working closely with the sector to progress 680 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 2: the change. 681 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: We are going to have to take a quick break. 682 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixty. 683 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: It is the week that was well, you are listening 684 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: to the week that was on the line in Catherine. 685 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: We've got Selena Rubo, the Opposition leader. We've got Robin Lambley. 686 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: We've got Robin carl and Matt Cunningham in the studio 687 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: with us this morning. Now, one of the things I 688 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: was keen to discuss, very different to what we've been 689 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: talking thing about so far this morning, is the fact 690 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: that the government's considering integrating the Northern Territory Major Events 691 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: Company and Tourism INT to establish what they've described as 692 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: a more targeted and strategic approach to attract visitors to 693 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. The Minister for Tourism, Hospitality and Hospitality, 694 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,919 Speaker 1: Mary Clare Boothby and made the announcement earlier in the week, 695 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: saying the government was exploring ways to drive efficiencies and 696 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: better leverage the expertise within both organizations and maximize visitation. 697 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: Now call me a skeptic, but my first thought was, 698 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: hang on a sec nt. Major events are getting things 699 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: done and seem to be able to get things done, 700 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: and I wonder whether part of that is because they're 701 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: not bound by bureaucracy. But you know, according to the minister, 702 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,919 Speaker 1: she said that it would be a strategic move as 703 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: both organizations were working towards the same goal and that 704 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: is indeed bringing visitors to the Northern Territory. 705 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 5: Bring it on, Bring it on, I reckon. There's a 706 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 5: lot of fat cat setting in the Department of Tourism. 707 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 5: There always has been, never really known what they do. 708 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 5: They don't seem to deliver that much. I say, get 709 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 5: rid of everyone who's underperforming. Make you combine these two departments. Well, 710 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 5: I don't know, give it a go. 711 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: Come like a mammoth. But that slows down. 712 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 5: I'd take it one step further though, I'd get rid 713 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 5: of those two and just put them all in business 714 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 5: and reduce the whole thing by about fifty percent. 715 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 2: I think if we go back, we go back to 716 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 2: why it was created, like twenty five odd years ago, 717 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,720 Speaker 2: was to create that focus on major on the big 718 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 2: things that we could be doing. Over time, there's an 719 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 2: increasing alignment between both areas and they should be working 720 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,959 Speaker 2: really closely together. And that's really what this is about. 721 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 2: You know, we don't want duplication because that creates challenges 722 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 2: left and right hand not knowing what the others doing. 723 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,720 Speaker 2: They already are working together on things. That just makes 724 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 2: sense to actually pull that blend together and actually make 725 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 2: sure we've got the big event that then flows into 726 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 2: people staying for an extra week. For example, we've been 727 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 2: doing a lot of work around connectivity into Southeast Asia. 728 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 2: So you know, how great can we we promote the 729 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 2: V eights. We say, come here, spend some time and 730 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 2: do and fly across, spend some time in Denpasar, come back, 731 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: do some more stuff in Darwin. I think we really 732 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 2: have an opportunity to do a really good push about 733 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 2: the territory as a whole, and the major events component 734 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 2: of that will be added into that mix. 735 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 736 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 4: Well, I take your point about getting things done, but 737 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 4: I think what you need to get things done. He's 738 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 4: a minister that tells the Department to get things done. 739 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 4: That's how you get things done, and that's when things 740 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 4: don't get done. 741 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 2: Reckon. 742 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: We have seen that, I mean, Selena, is this is this? 743 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,240 Speaker 1: Are they doing exactly what Labour says that the CLP 744 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: will do, and that is cut jobs and you know, 745 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,959 Speaker 1: find ways to save money. 746 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 3: How Katie, I think the machinery of government change is 747 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 3: obviously the government of the day's prerogative. So that's what 748 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 3: the CLPS to do. But opposite to Robin Lambley, you know, 749 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 3: our labor opposition wants to make sure and guarantee that 750 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 3: there will be no job cuts around this process. The 751 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 3: COLP government promised there would be no cuts to the 752 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 3: public service. Is this their stealthy way around that we 753 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 3: yet to see once this machinery of government change is made. 754 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 5: You know, Selena, after coming back into government as speaker, 755 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 5: I am astounded at how slow government functions. And I 756 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 5: think after eight years of labor you guys took your 757 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 5: eye off the ball. You weren't in charge, and you've 758 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 5: allowed government to become fat and lazy. And if this 759 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 5: new government wants to kick things along and stir people 760 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 5: up and get a little bit more out of them, 761 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 5: then so be it good on them. 762 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 2: That's absolutely the message with sending Robert and certainly I 763 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 2: know the in this Minister Boothby has been very clear 764 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 2: with her team in in this space, results driven, accountability, transparency. 765 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,359 Speaker 2: We're spending money in this space. We need to make 766 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,879 Speaker 2: sure that we're getting the results there. He's working very 767 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 2: hard to make that happen. 768 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 1: Well, we are going to have to take a really 769 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: quick break. You are listening to Mix one oh four 770 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,959 Speaker 1: point nine three sixty. The hour is flying by. Well, 771 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,359 Speaker 1: it has been a busy hour and a massive thank 772 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: you to everybody who's joined us on the show this morning. Selena, 773 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: Rubo and Catherine, thank you so much for your time today. 774 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 5: Thank you very much. 775 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: Katie and of course Robin Lambley here from Alice Springs 776 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: for the show. Thank you very much for joining us 777 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: this morning. Busy week next week. 778 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 2: Very good week. 779 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 5: Yes, thank you for having me Katie. 780 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,840 Speaker 1: Lovely to have you on the show. Robin Carl, Minister 781 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: for Families Children, all sorts of portfolios. 782 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,320 Speaker 2: Thanks Patie, and I'm happy Friday to everyone and have 783 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 2: a great weekend. 784 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 1: Oh I'm Matt Cunningham from Sky News. It's going to 785 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: be a big weekend of footy, isn't it match? 786 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 4: Good luck to everyone playing in the Grand finals on 787 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 4: the weekend. Wilfee and how were the Tigers last night? 788 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 2: Were back? Yeah, I have no bias, but yeah, go 789 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 2: the Tigers. 790 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 1: I was watching the rugby leg and crying into my drink, 791 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: you know, and go the night last night. 792 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah I was sharing for them, but I was, well, 793 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 2: that is it for the week. 794 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: That was this morning, thank you all so much for 795 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: your time