1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: But joining me on the line right now is Jerry Would, 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: the former Independent member for Nelson. 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: Good morning, Jerry, morning Katie. I'm glad I got the 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: right day this time. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Good to catch up with you. You and I have 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: been sending each other a few texts throughout the week. 7 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: We are political nerds. We certainly like observing what's going on, Jerry, 8 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: and I guess no one's probably got more historical knowledge 9 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to politics than you, So I always 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: love a good chat to find out you know what 11 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: your thoughts are on different things. Jerry, what did you 12 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: make of Robin Lamley, the Independent, being named as the Speaker? 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: I thought it was very good. I'm always a great 14 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: believer the speaker should be independent. In of course, if 15 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: you go right back to when Claire mart became the 16 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 2: Chief Minister, she appointed Lorraine Brahm as the Speaker, as 17 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: the Independent Speaker, and she appointed me then as the 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: Independent Deputy Speaker. Unfortunately that didn't last past the first 19 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: term because they only had a more majority in the 20 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: first term, and when they've got a lot more people 21 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: on their side, you might say at the next election 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: that conveniently got dropped, and then we had a Labor 23 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 2: member who was the speaker, and then later on, of 24 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: course we got keys Yer. She was nominated as a speaker. 25 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 2: She was also an EXCLP person, of course, and so 26 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: she was independent speak for quite a while until Ikak 27 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: stepped in and the Labor Party decided to ask her 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: to resign and they appointed their own speakers, and that's 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: happened up till now. And now the CLP has gotten 30 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: into power and they've decided to we'll reintroduce having an 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: independent speaker, even though of course Robins was a CLP 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: member one stage, but she also comes from Alice Springs, 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: as Lorraine Brahms did. But regardless, I think it's good. 34 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: I think it's good for parliament because the way that 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: Parliament can be run. 36 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. I think that it seems 37 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: the face of it like a good move. I guess 38 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: history has shown us though, based on what you've just 39 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: told us then, Jerry, that sometimes it doesn't sort of 40 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: last those good intentions. 41 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: No, sometimes some people in politics have have good, good intentions, 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: but sometimes other things get in the road of those 43 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 2: good intentions and they sometimes move away. But at the moment, look, 44 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 2: the government's got the numbers I think it's good that 45 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: we do have an independent speaker, because you want things 46 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: to be run, you might say, by someone who has 47 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: a neutral perspective on debates. I know that when I 48 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 2: debated certain things with the Labor Party, they could just say, sorry, 49 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: we're not going to answer that question. And then if 50 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: they didn't answer the question, I might complain, and then 51 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: they could always go to the speak and say mister 52 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: Wood is making a nuisance of himself with your police 53 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: comes down more or less, and that could happen. Yeah. Yeah, 54 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: So I think it's just a good, good move to 55 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: Parliament as it should be. 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: Now, Jerry, you and I spoke a little bit earlier, 57 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: or we were messaging a little bit earlier in the week, 58 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: and I read quite an extensive letter from you around 59 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: those scrutiny committees earlier in the week. With a scrutiny committee, 60 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: it looks as though, from what I can see, it 61 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: has now been announced, or certainly Steve Edgington and Leofanocchiio 62 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: came out yesterday and said that there is going to 63 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: be a scrutiny committee and that they are going to 64 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: well it's something that they're going to be doing, and 65 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: that they want greater levels of transparency, accountability and good 66 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: practice in parliamentary procedure. We've asked to have Steve on 67 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: the show to no avail at this point in time, 68 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: but they've said that there will be new sessional orders 69 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: to allow for petitions to be debated for double the 70 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: time allowed by Labor and then newly established Legislative Scrutiny 71 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: Committee will have the opportunity to review and report on legislation, 72 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: further enhancing parliamentary transparency. Is this a good moves? 73 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: Well, if you were listening to your Friday session last 74 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 2: week when Jared Mayley was speaking, you would thought there's 75 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: no hope. It looked like we're not going to do it. 76 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: We're just going to go ahead regardless. So it is 77 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: good news. I think people should understand that. You know, 78 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 2: we're not alone having a unicameral system. Queensland has a 79 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: uniquicameral system. Obviously they're a bigger parliament and I was 80 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: part of a well the government set up a committee 81 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: to go and look at the system that how it 82 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: runs in Queensland. I also spent my own time going 83 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: to the Queensland Parliament, sitting down and watching a scrutiny committee. 84 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: So they have to. I think they have up to 85 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 2: seven scrutiny committees. And the whole idea is because you 86 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: don't have an upper house Victoria, New South Wales and 87 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 2: the Senate, and the Senate is an upper house. Those 88 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: other states don't just pass legislation. It has to go 89 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: to the upper house. In the upper House acts as 90 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: basically scrutiny of that legislation. Now we don't have that, 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: so the way at least to get some scrutinies to 92 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: set up a committee. They're called scrutiny committees, and they 93 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 2: will look at each piece of legislation and they will, 94 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: depending on the legislation and say, well, look that's pretty simple. 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: Let doesn't bear much scrutiny. But where you've got committee, 96 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: where you've got legislation that will have an effect on people, 97 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 2: on industry, on businesses, on livelihoods, then that committee can 98 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: go out to parts of the territory and tell people 99 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: what is in this legislation. Because legislation is not the 100 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: same as an election promise. That's all that is is 101 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: a promise no more than words. Legislation will turns into law, 102 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 2: and that law can affect everybody, So you give a 103 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: chance for people Tenacre Catherine might be norm boy, it 104 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 2: might be out further to go and hear what people 105 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: are thinking about this legislation and then they can report 106 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 2: back to Parliament. Now it does slow things down, I 107 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: know that, and people will say, oh, you're going to 108 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: brush these things through, but it brings Parliament to the 109 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: people and lets them have a say, and then you've 110 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: got a committee which will bring back recommendations to the Parliament. 111 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: It may be they want some changes, there may be 112 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: no changes recommended, and in the end of course of parliament, 113 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: the government still has the power to say, well we 114 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: don't accept that. But at least you've had an opportunity 115 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: to have a say and put forward your points of view. 116 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: And I think that makes our democracy a much healthier democracy, 117 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: because we have the danger now with a party with 118 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: a lot of quite a big majority to just say 119 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: or would do would we like now? So that's why 120 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: it is good news that the government has announced that 121 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: it will have some scrutiny committees. I don't know how many, 122 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 2: if they'll have, whether we used to have two, they 123 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: may drop it down to one and then they labor 124 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: scrapped them all together. Yeah, yeah, And. 125 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: Look, I don't have that level of detail at the 126 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: moment either, and that was what I was hoping to 127 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: be able to get from Steve Edgington. We'd put in 128 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: a request to have him on the show in the morning. 129 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: But I know they're obviously in their first week of 130 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: parliament and busy, busy, as I understand, And I suppose 131 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: the other side of the argument for these sittings, Jerry 132 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: is there's a lot of people really screaming at the 133 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: new government and were screaming at the former government as 134 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: well to make these changes when it comes to crime. 135 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: Yes, but you haven't seen the legislation or you have 136 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: heard us will do something. The legislation becomes law, and 137 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: you need to be very careful what you do, and 138 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: you need a chance still people see what that legislation 139 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: actually means. It hasn't that the previous government scrapped that 140 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: you didn't see that happen. Law and order hasn't been 141 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: something that just fell over and overnight and caused an 142 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: instant emergency. Law and order has been the issues about 143 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: what we're talking about. I've been around for a long 144 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: long time and governments have continually tried to find out 145 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: ways of doing things. My oppositions have kept saying that 146 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: that that they're not doing it the right way. We 147 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: would do it this way. It's been an ongoing debate 148 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 2: for Donkey's agent. That didn't happen yesterday. So yes, we 149 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: need to have the listen see what the government is 150 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: putting forward to their view of how we would reduce 151 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: problems with law and order. But they need to be 152 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: responsible enough to say to people, yeah, hang on houses 153 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: on fire. And people might say there are a few 154 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: houses on fire, But what I'm saying is that, yes, 155 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: we need to look at it. We need to do 156 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: something quickly, but do it carefully. Don't go rushing you. 157 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: It's a bit like what you call it people, bull 158 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: in the china shop. Yes we got into the shop now, 159 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: we smashed the place to pieces, and we didn't do 160 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: it right in the first place. So just be careful, 161 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 2: make sure you bring the people, bring people along with 162 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: you by having these a few meetings in the Catherine Tenancrete. 163 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: They've all got crime and problems, we know that, and 164 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: allow people who deal with these young people to have 165 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: a say in front of one of these committees. The 166 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: committee will hear what people have to say directly, and 167 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: that makes parliament a much better parliament. And then the 168 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: government will get Brille to introduce legislation and no, it's 169 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 2: gone and got a second lot of opinion, you might say, 170 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: and surely that would be a better way to do things. 171 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: The way I say to satisfy everybody, they'll say, nah, 172 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 2: come and they've got a mandate. We'll don't forget. I 173 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 2: don't know what the mandate is because they might have 174 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: had thirty promises in the election. Some of those mandates 175 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: I might never agree with. I don't know which mandate 176 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: they were backing, but I think it's running parliament with 177 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 2: respect and I think that's really important from the public's 178 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: point of view and from democracy's point of view. 179 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: Well, Jerry, I always appreciate your time, and look, I 180 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: know some people might not agree with what you've said 181 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: this morning in terms of the legislation, but to me, 182 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: you always bring a wealth of knowledge because you have 183 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: been part of that the parliamentary system and know the 184 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: way that things work, and have a really good understanding 185 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: as well of sometimes how laws can impact people in 186 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: ways that they maybe haven't intended to. So I think 187 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: it's very important discussion and I'm really going to be 188 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: interested to see what the new government says in terms 189 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: of the Scrutiny Committee, how many of them there's going 190 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: to be, how they're going to work, or if it's 191 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: only going to be one. So hopefully I can get 192 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: some of those answers soon. 193 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: Jerry, and you'll be able to turn up, hopefully to 194 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: a Scrutiny committee hearing. 195 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: That sounds interesting. I've never been to one of those. 196 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: Well, they should be open to everybody. They should be 197 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: and they can happen in Parliament House and happen anywhere 198 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: they'd like to set up at committee. And that's the 199 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 2: way I think you bring Parliament to the people, and 200 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: that's good for all the members of Parliament to hear 201 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: what the public has to say. 202 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: Well, good stuff. Thank you as always for having a 203 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: chat with me. I really appreciate it. I'll talk to 204 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: you again soon. 205 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll see if I get the right day 206 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 2: next time. Okay, Well, I always. 207 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: See it the athletics track anyway, Jerry, I. 208 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: Can always. 209 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: That's a l Now, well you're into the season, of course, yeah. 210 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm getting retiredly. I'm now a goal umpire. And 211 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: the hardest thing is my daughter is the coach heard 212 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: it in the background. Dad, That's not the way to 213 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 2: do that. 214 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: A good honor, Jerry. Thanks Mine, I'll talk to you again. 215 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: So thank you.