Speaker 1: Flex and Fromes.
Speaker 2: I'm Kit, Hello Bingchers, Welcome to the podcast Flex and Frons.
Speaker 3: We are so glad you're here. Today's gonna be a
Speaker 3: super juicy, juicy juicy one. We've been talking about this
Speaker 3: phenomena that I've been seeing on TikTok with famous celebrities
Speaker 3: like Doja Cat and Fka Twigs saying that their label
Speaker 3: is forcing them to go viral before they can drop
Speaker 3: new music. So super spooky.
Speaker 2: Sure, that's actually my demon paralysis being made to post
Speaker 2: certain things. Imagine, I hate it. We're also going to
Speaker 2: be talking about the most popular girls names. I was
Speaker 2: having this conversation with my sister yesterday.
Speaker 4: It's giving Charlotte, it's giving Olivia. My sister's a great name.
Speaker 4: I love the name Olivia. Oh thank you.
Speaker 2: Bitchy but hot, she's a bitch. And of course we're
Speaker 2: going to be talking about Shrek. Yeah, just a little
Speaker 2: tiny taste.
Speaker 3: And you taught us about this morally motivated network, about
Speaker 3: how there are a bunch of people who think that
Speaker 3: their duty is to cancel people because it's motivated from this,
Speaker 3: like Inna Vigilante, Are they the hero?
Speaker 4: Are they the villain? Find out next Stay tuned, my
Speaker 4: little lovelies.
Speaker 1: This is flex and frooms.
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about a man and a woman
Speaker 2: again it with any other you know, this is what
Speaker 2: happens on FLEXA.
Speaker 3: One thing about frooms. She loves a heterosexual relationship dilemma.
Speaker 4: I don't see sexuality. It's really that simple. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this is a very very simple question that slid
Speaker 2: into my DMS a week ago. I can't remember the
Speaker 2: person's name, but I know that it's a woman, a
Speaker 2: heterosexual woman.
Speaker 4: Let's call her Maddie, Maddie, Thank you, Maddie.
Speaker 2: See, I think these people want to be anonymous, but
Speaker 2: we'll call her Maddie a good girlfriend.
Speaker 3: One day, we'll talk about why people who have this
Speaker 3: propensity to want to overshare to strangers want to be
Speaker 3: anonymous at the same time. Pick one. Do you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. It's very counterintuitive to be like, I
Speaker 3: want to share this very intimate thing to you, for
Speaker 3: you to share with hundreds of thousands of people the
Speaker 3: most not intimate thing you can do.
Speaker 4: I mean, anyway, go on gone. It makes sense to me,
Speaker 4: So eat secret keepers. This is simple.
Speaker 2: She goes a good girlfriend and I had a falling
Speaker 2: out due to her thinking that I didn't like her
Speaker 2: boyfriend when I had never said anything to allude to that,
Speaker 2: and now she has blocked me.
Speaker 4: What what do I do?
Speaker 3: I have more questions than answers.
Speaker 4: It's like, that's pretty simple, isn't it. It's like a
Speaker 4: very simple love line. Yeah, no nuance to that.
Speaker 3: As you would say, imagine your friend blocking you because
Speaker 3: they think you don't like their partner.
Speaker 2: I chose this love line, of course. Why I choose anything?
Speaker 2: Because I have a personal connection.
Speaker 4: You do, Yes, I have been in this situation.
Speaker 3: What you really have lived? This story? You keep sharing
Speaker 3: one incriminating sorry after another.
Speaker 2: I'll share this one because I look like a saying
Speaker 2: to it and I did nothing wrong.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: As someone with an expressive face, I can imagine I
Speaker 3: give people the impression that I hate things that I'm
Speaker 3: indifferent about. Something about my facial structure can be real frowny,
Speaker 3: real quick. And also the intonation of my voice.
Speaker 4: Sarcastic at all times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's not even my humor. That's what gets me, Like,
Speaker 3: I feel like when people think I'm being really facetious,
Speaker 3: I'm telling the truth.
Speaker 4: Well, what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: I think that the person Maddie, who we absolutely named,
Speaker 3: is lying.
Speaker 4: I think she's lying.
Speaker 3: You've never given your friend the impression that you hate
Speaker 3: her boyfriend, yet she's gone out of her way to
Speaker 3: block you. Either you lack self awareness and you've got
Speaker 3: resting bitch face, or you've been flirting too much with
Speaker 3: her boyfriend.
Speaker 4: And she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no no no,
Speaker 4: I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this.
Speaker 3: I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm going to give you the inside scope
Speaker 2: of what it's like to be Maddie. And I actually
Speaker 2: don't care if I say that.
Speaker 4: Often.
Speaker 2: I'm telling stories and halfway through I'm thinking, oh no,
Speaker 2: this can't go to air. I'm incriminating myself and others.
Speaker 2: But with this one, I know I didn't do anything wrong,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to say it. So twenty fifteen, you're
Speaker 2: so good with date. Literally, in my mind, I don't
Speaker 2: remember anything except certain periods of time. I had a
Speaker 2: best friend, very best friend since high school, and she
Speaker 2: had a long suffering relationship with a man we're going
Speaker 2: to call Sam long suffering.
Speaker 4: It was long suffering. They've been dating since she was
Speaker 4: in year eight. He was three years older, bit edge,
Speaker 4: But I digress.
Speaker 3: That's your community though, what that's your community, is it? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Okay, with a.
Speaker 3: Boyfriend at the wedding and the Haviana sandals.
Speaker 2: If you want to hear the Havanna experience, you're going
Speaker 2: to have to go listen to our podcast and it's
Speaker 2: all there. But basically, my very best friend, she had
Speaker 2: a boyfriend who was by all accounts a bit of
Speaker 2: a crap person, oo bad person, very mean to her.
Speaker 2: Would often like she would do things to throw back,
Speaker 2: like kind of couple that would like put the truth
Speaker 2: rush on the toilet.
Speaker 4: That was the level of relationship we were dealing with.
Speaker 3: Oh that's not that's not like a metaphor.
Speaker 2: No no, no, yeah, literal really awful things, spreading rumors
Speaker 2: about one another, then getting back together. So obviously this happened.
Speaker 2: You know, they're doing the cycle. We all know a
Speaker 2: friend who does the cycle getting back together, and when
Speaker 2: they're not together, she's vicious about him, coming over to
Speaker 2: my house in front of my parents, spreading lies about
Speaker 2: his person, to which my parents even thought was a
Speaker 2: bit weird. So anyway, they get back together. Fastholed to
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen and.
Speaker 3: She was started in twenty fifteen, so were we fast forwarded?
Speaker 2: I was backtracking too year, right, Like, I'm working together
Speaker 2: for like seven years by this point.
Speaker 4: It got it, got it finally back together. We're all
Speaker 4: at a party. It's my friend's twenty first birthday, and
Speaker 4: I rock up.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling amazing, my life is fantastic, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 4: And I see.
Speaker 2: Sam and what we're doing. Names, Yeah, we're calling him Sam.
Speaker 2: It's not as we are names.
Speaker 4: Oh, but I'll say it if you asked me kindly enough.
Speaker 2: And I see him and obviously we have a funny
Speaker 2: relationship because I was mean to him when he was
Speaker 2: broken up with my friend.
Speaker 4: So we have a fun you had to. I did
Speaker 4: what I had to. I run up to him, I go, hey, Sam,
Speaker 4: this is a photographer. I go, Sam, let's get a photo.
Speaker 2: And I stand with him and I like, send me
Speaker 2: cock my leg up.
Speaker 3: So I was like doing this like pretty princess vibes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like you I know something you don't know. We're in love.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, album hits Facebook that Sunday. Get a terse message
Speaker 2: from my friend. You're being very inappropriate and I don't
Speaker 2: think we can be friends. You made Sam very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: You made it's uncomfortable, Okay, dol same boy that actually
Speaker 2: was untoward to me at times of predator, So.
Speaker 4: You killed him with kindness, I sondh backfire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did, literally, So I know the experience of
Speaker 2: someone not liking you because you don't like their partner
Speaker 2: or because there's like bad beef.
Speaker 4: But I think Maddie should move on.
Speaker 2: Me and that person aren't friends anymore because that was
Speaker 2: really the nail on the coffin, because I hadn't done
Speaker 2: anything wrong.
Speaker 3: This has taken so many turns. I'm gonna validate you
Speaker 3: for that story. That sounds wholly traumatic, and I hate
Speaker 3: that for you and all parties involved in this instance.
Speaker 3: If you've been.
Speaker 4: Blocked, how do you know what it's about?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: How do you have enough information to go? I know
Speaker 3: it because my friend thinks I don't like her boyfriend. Okay,
Speaker 3: well then you know you did something like You've got
Speaker 3: too much information for a blocked person.
Speaker 4: Interesting.
Speaker 3: The moral to all of these love lines, which I
Speaker 3: love receiving never stop sending, is just go talk to
Speaker 3: the person, because what if it was an accidental block? Now,
Speaker 3: what if it was like, you know, out on the piss,
Speaker 3: got a little bit hyped up, block them because you
Speaker 3: felt some kind of way and just forgot to it.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Flex and Frooms on DA.
Speaker 2: A few weeks ago, we discovered that our producer Brook
Speaker 2: has a tattoo of Shrek on her arm.
Speaker 4: Yeah, which is pretty full on. And then we discovered
Speaker 4: that the Shrek looks exactly like you like me in
Speaker 4: the most beautiful way possible. You look exactly the same.
Speaker 2: And then a few days ago someone slid it into
Speaker 2: my DMS to tell me this incredible fact that apparently
Speaker 2: Shrek is actually based off a real life man.
Speaker 4: Cute and is that hearsay or do we have the evidence?
Speaker 4: M bit of both? It's four fourful yeah, bit of both.
Speaker 2: Okay speaking el, So this is actually what I'm going
Speaker 2: to call a Shrek conspiracy. Love that supposedly it's based
Speaker 2: on a real life man who was a boxer called
Speaker 2: Maurice Tillet who had the nickname the French Angel. Basically,
Speaker 2: when he was twenty years old, he noticed swelling in
Speaker 2: his hands, feet and head, and after visiting a doctor,
Speaker 2: he was diagnosed with our megali, which is a condition
Speaker 2: usually caused by a benign tumor on the pituary gland,
Speaker 2: which results in bone overgrowth and thickening. So basically, this
Speaker 2: man's head grew in a way that was akin to Shrek.
Speaker 2: Thereius Slicks has got a photo that she's showing up here.
Speaker 2: He is in kind of like old garb that you'd
Speaker 2: wear as a box as wearing kind of like an
Speaker 2: oversized nappy style thing, and I got a handle.
Speaker 3: That's the problem.
Speaker 4: He's cute. Yeah, but the man looks like Shrek. There's
Speaker 4: no denying it.
Speaker 3: Shrek looks like him.
Speaker 2: Facts, But I did a little bit more digging and
Speaker 2: apparently DreamWorks never confirmed that it really was based on Shrek.
Speaker 3: Doesn't want to pay him?
Speaker 2: Oh, always going back to commerce, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: pay you there, I reckon, you're right. Here's some more
Speaker 2: pictures of him, and I mean, the man is Shrek.
Speaker 4: There's no denying incredible.
Speaker 2: Yes, So, Maurice Tillett the real life Shrek. If you
Speaker 2: want to tell someone if you're a big Shrek fan,
Speaker 2: I'm going to assume that you are.
Speaker 4: If you're listening to this.
Speaker 2: Show, type in Morris Tilletts and show all of your
Speaker 2: friends and you can say I knew the real life track.
Speaker 3: And by Morris she means Maurice Fleck and Frooms. We
Speaker 3: don't often talk about music marketing, which we should because
Speaker 3: it's fascinating and it affects every single one of your
Speaker 3: most favorite artists. There is so much more that goes
Speaker 3: into you hearing the music right like before it gets
Speaker 3: to your little ear holes. There's all this red tape
Speaker 3: and bureaucracy that needs to be adhered to that honestly
Speaker 3: just ruins the vibe. Recently, on TikTok, a bunch of
Speaker 3: artists came out with the same formula of TikTok, which
Speaker 3: is them holding the camera to their face in selfie mode,
Speaker 3: not speaking with their own music overlaid and words on
Speaker 3: a scream that alludes to I'm so upset my label went,
Speaker 3: let me release my next song unless I go viral.
Speaker 3: On TikTok, Now, if one of them did, it would
Speaker 3: have been like, okay, believable.
Speaker 4: And the first one I'm just gonna interrupt you was
Speaker 4: Charli XCX.
Speaker 3: Yes, and then Halsey and then Doja Cat and Florence
Speaker 3: the Machine. So yeah, if one person had done it,
Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh, yeah, you're fine, but all of
Speaker 3: them doing it, which is I don't really know if
Speaker 3: I believe it. I don't gonna be cynical, you know.
Speaker 3: But the thing that gets me is that these are
Speaker 3: huge artists that have already proved to the world that
Speaker 3: they are valuable. They can already make hits, they can
Speaker 3: already muster up audience interests. Why would you tell like
Speaker 3: a billion dollar artists they have to know multimillion dollar
Speaker 3: artists they have to now go viral, this arbitrary metric
Speaker 3: of success to release a song anyway.
Speaker 4: Listen to this clip.
Speaker 5: All right, So it's looking like a lot of artists
Speaker 5: signed the Capitol Records are calling them out for not
Speaker 5: letting them release their new music unless it goes.
Speaker 4: Viral on TikTok.
Speaker 5: Now we all know hard it was the most reason
Speaker 5: one today we heard about Fja Twigs and Charlie Exists.
Speaker 5: I think last week I believe, but now we're hearing
Speaker 5: from Florence. Well, I'm glad that ours are speaking out
Speaker 5: on this because we, as the general publis I have
Speaker 5: been talking about this for the last two years. Everyone
Speaker 5: is trying to make money off of TikTok, and they're
Speaker 5: forcing their eyes in something that they don't want to do.
Speaker 3: And so the thing about that is, I feel like
Speaker 3: part of what I would love to see in music
Speaker 3: and celebrity culture is a bit of a mystery. Like
Speaker 3: I think that we have skewed a little bit too
Speaker 3: far into authenticity culture, and now I'm having to be
Speaker 3: accountable for what these artists are going through behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: I love that you're being real, but just figure out
Speaker 3: how to go viral, babe, so.
Speaker 4: I can hear the track.
Speaker 3: Now I can't hear the music because you can't go viral.
Speaker 4: Be better.
Speaker 2: I swear Charlie XX did this like a year ago.
Speaker 2: I believed her. Yes, she has always been real talk
Speaker 2: in my experience. I've interviewed her before. She's giving me
Speaker 2: a real talk kind of vibe. She's she's not ask Kissa,
Speaker 2: She's here to do her job. Whereas, Yeah, the more
Speaker 2: recent ones I struggled to believe. Even with Charlie XX,
Speaker 2: Like I did have this little, tiny like voice in
Speaker 2: my head being like, there's no way that's real. Not
Speaker 2: because I am like someone who's totally aware of like
Speaker 2: marketing and stuff. I think your brain more goes there,
Speaker 2: but more because like, if I was a label and
Speaker 2: my artist was talking shit, I'd be like stop that.
Speaker 2: I think they're much more likely to feel upset about
Speaker 2: you bad noting them yeah, than you actually like needing
Speaker 2: to do it.
Speaker 3: But interesting that you perceived. Charlie XCX is like a
Speaker 3: real raw kind of artist because I remember back in
Speaker 3: the early days, like in that boom Clap era, where
Speaker 3: she was so obviously being a caricature of herself, like
Speaker 3: this extra heightened version of herself, and then like had
Speaker 3: a very distinct career change and a very distinct career change,
Speaker 3: and even recently she said that due to the fact
Speaker 3: that everybody is doing this hyper authentic thing, she's swinging
Speaker 3: and she wants to be like a fembot like stiff,
Speaker 3: not even stiff, but just like a highly curated type
Speaker 3: of brand now because there's no value in sharing everything
Speaker 3: behind the scenes.
Speaker 4: It doesn't add anything to your end result.
Speaker 3: You just end up stressing more because now the whole
Speaker 3: internet knows you're anxious. Times back from when Summer Walker
Speaker 3: said that she didn't want to tour because she's really
Speaker 3: anxious and she hates performing and she gets on stage
Speaker 3: and she's like really stiff, and she's not looking at
Speaker 3: the crowd and she looks very visibly just not comfortable.
Speaker 3: And she told the audiences eventually she's like, I'm really anxious,
Speaker 3: Like nothing is more uncomfortable to me than doing this. Sorry,
Speaker 3: And now people weaponize that against her, They're like, if
Speaker 3: you're anxious, why you want to be a musician for
Speaker 3: you knew what you.
Speaker 4: Signed up for, just sing something skiff? Can't you just
Speaker 4: take a little pill.
Speaker 2: I do think that it hits a chord with people
Speaker 2: on TikTok because I think a lot of people, especially
Speaker 2: our age, we are.
Speaker 4: At the very very end of gen z. I think
Speaker 4: we're out of it. But nah, oh yeah, I think
Speaker 4: I'm a millennial. Yeah, I'll take it by one year
Speaker 4: me that was very millennial.
Speaker 2: I think that we can relate to the feeling of
Speaker 2: not wanting to adopt a new platform. And I think
Speaker 2: for a lot of people they think of TikTok as
Speaker 2: the dancing app, Like there's so many people our age
Speaker 2: that still think it's where teenagers got to do dancers.
Speaker 2: It's totally a lot from that.
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, there's that, there's more to it.
Speaker 2: There's a lot more to it, And so I think
Speaker 2: in sharing that there's relatability to people who are afraid
Speaker 2: of TikTok.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I just don't think it's an artist's role
Speaker 3: to be relatable. And I also think my real issue
Speaker 3: is why are these artists having to be in charge
Speaker 3: of their marketing? Like is should the pressure not be
Speaker 3: on the marketing managers to be like, you need to
Speaker 3: make me go viral so I can drop this hit?
Speaker 3: Like what is the marketer's job if the artist now
Speaker 3: has the pressure to create a direct them, write the music,
Speaker 3: dress themselves, build an audience, build a fan base, and
Speaker 3: now go viral just to drop a track that doesn't
Speaker 3: feel like it should be in the artists to remit,
Speaker 3: especially because artists are the culmination of all the creative
Speaker 3: brains that are working on them, from the label to
Speaker 3: their management, to their photographers and their videographers. Like they
Speaker 3: are the sum of so many other brains. Why are
Speaker 3: they feeling like they're on their own when it comes
Speaker 3: to releasing music, Like, shouldn't it be like, how are
Speaker 3: we going to get you to go viral? Here are
Speaker 3: some ideas, let's do it. I think it's very strange.
Speaker 3: We've talked about this idea of celebrity relatability in the
Speaker 3: long term. I don't think it does anything favorable for
Speaker 3: an artist to know that the conditions that they're working
Speaker 3: in are not conducive to them releasing music, because, contrary
Speaker 3: to what these artists think, your fans do not want
Speaker 3: to know that there are limitations between them and the
Speaker 3: next hit. They want to know the music's coming. You
Speaker 3: say the music is not coming. Okay, well, one way
Speaker 3: I meant to do, like what do you need from me?
Speaker 3: And I think that artists of twenty twenty two ask
Speaker 3: for a lot from their fans. Pre save this, stream this,
Speaker 3: come to the thing and buy the merge and then
Speaker 3: make sure you do this, and then come here. And
Speaker 3: if you don't, if you don't do this by this time,
Speaker 3: then I don't get this. And suddenly you have to
Speaker 3: opt in so heavily just to be a fan. And
Speaker 3: also with how controversial a lot of artists are, Like
Speaker 3: imagine saying you're a Kanye fan in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: you know you gotta do a whole campaign trail to
Speaker 3: justify that you can't just like the music anymore. You
Speaker 3: have to like them as people and all the things
Speaker 3: they're going through. Let's just let's put it in a
Speaker 3: nice thing little box. O kind let's work on the presentation.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 2: But I'm kind of the opinion if you're an artist
Speaker 2: and you're a star, you are unrelenting and you want
Speaker 2: to do everything yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think the whole point of being signed
Speaker 3: to a label is that you can do these things
Speaker 3: by yourself with this of all these like with the
Speaker 3: sport of an industry behind you, backing you and giving
Speaker 3: you the push you need to do the things you
Speaker 3: should want to do. If the artists have already written
Speaker 3: the music and the labels like it's sitting there ready
Speaker 3: to click process to the world, and you can't do
Speaker 3: it until you go viral on this platform, well that
Speaker 3: is just silly.
Speaker 2: I think it's semi think that it could be true
Speaker 2: because I feel like so many people that get record
Speaker 2: deals these days are famous on TikTok. Pretty much all
Speaker 2: entertainers that are coming up from twenty two onwards need
Speaker 2: a TikTok presence.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you need a TikTok presence.
Speaker 3: But look that song you played.
Speaker 4: Earlier, mean by whoever whoever, that song is so huge
Speaker 4: on TikTok.
Speaker 3: I don't know that girl's name, I don't know where
Speaker 3: she's from, I don't know what she does.
Speaker 4: It's not resonating.
Speaker 3: Going viral on TikTok is like the first step to
Speaker 3: a career that plateaus in three seconds because you literally
Speaker 3: cannot sustain that amount of height for any longer than
Speaker 3: a season. You're not allowed to. Like the biggest artists
Speaker 3: in the world have an off period. Frank oceanwent am
Speaker 3: I for five years because he could not sustain the hype.
Speaker 3: It's of what he created.
Speaker 2: It's a three year trial that we were talking about
Speaker 2: last time. Three years of fame, three years off, three fame,
Speaker 2: three years off.
Speaker 3: That's it. And so I think like this whole idea
Speaker 3: like go viral on TikTok, But what people aren't really
Speaker 3: aware of is that, like you need to post viral strategy,
Speaker 3: like what are we going viral for people to look
Speaker 3: at the song and never stream it. There are tons
Speaker 3: of songs that I hear on TikTok that I will
Speaker 3: never stream. Why because the user path is confusing. I
Speaker 3: don't know what to do.
Speaker 4: Once I hear a thing, I like, I'm not getting
Speaker 4: off the app.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Anyway, that was a Rant, that was two that
Speaker 3: was two podcasts Rants and Randy Banshee. I just think
Speaker 3: that all of these things like are so contrived in
Speaker 3: a way that is making the general public too aware
Speaker 3: that it's all fake. Like, leave some mystery so we
Speaker 3: can just enjoy the music.
Speaker 4: It's like seeing the sausage factory. Yeah, I don't want
Speaker 4: to know what's inside.
Speaker 3: No more.
Speaker 1: This is flex and frooms on Cada.
Speaker 3: Listen to this. Australia's most popular girl's name has changed
Speaker 3: for the first time in seven years. Don't they also
Speaker 3: say your hair texture changes every seven years.
Speaker 4: Or all your cells are in new Yes? Can you
Speaker 4: guess what the new most popular girl's name is?
Speaker 2: So I knew the most popular before was Charlotte? Yes,
Speaker 2: for some reason, I think it could be Can I
Speaker 2: have three guesses?
Speaker 4: Of course? Isabella?
Speaker 3: No, but I can see that. Yeah, it's not Isabella.
Speaker 3: It's not Bella either.
Speaker 4: What's the first letter?
Speaker 3: I can't tell you?
Speaker 4: Come on, what do you give me the first letter? Please?
Speaker 4: Because I know I'll get it if you give me
Speaker 4: the first letter.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's I.
Speaker 4: Oh right, you were closed. No, it's a girl's name?
Speaker 4: Is it Uni?
Speaker 2: Sex?
Speaker 4: Maybe anything would be uni sex. You want it to
Speaker 4: a gendered gender.
Speaker 2: Less genderless okay, three two one. It's not Indigo.
Speaker 4: How do you know? Because whose name is Indigo?
Speaker 3: I know two indigoes, well know of not my people?
Speaker 3: Are we ready? Drummer ll please? Eiler is the new
Speaker 3: number one name, bumping longtime favorite Charlotte down to second place. Olivia, Amelia,
Speaker 3: and Ava are also in the top five. This is
Speaker 3: just classic girl names, it really is, but for a
Speaker 3: particular young person because I don't really know. I know
Speaker 3: you have an Olivia and your family Olivia, Amelia, and Ava.
Speaker 3: I don't think I know enough. But this is a
Speaker 3: different generation. These are you know, you're one to seven
Speaker 3: year olds.
Speaker 2: And to me, it's kind of like how certain words
Speaker 2: are certain colors, Like all of those names go together. Yes,
Speaker 2: the imagine a sister Lilac, Yeah, all Lemon, five sisters,
Speaker 2: all those names makes total sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, same same lineage for boys, can I guess sure?
Speaker 3: I know in the top ten would be like Teddy, No,
Speaker 3: but that's my nephew's name, or it's Theo Theodore, but Theo, which.
Speaker 4: I want it so badly.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's not Cooper. Where are you getting Cooper from Jacob. No,
Speaker 3: I'm so surprised you'd say Cooper. That's like in an
Speaker 3: Australian accent as well. There's one that's so obvious, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, if you don't know one.
Speaker 4: You are one John Jack Jack in any room Q hugo.
Speaker 4: Oh that's a good one.
Speaker 3: But no, I'm sure I read a little Vice article
Speaker 3: that said, like, in any group of seven, the it's
Speaker 3: gonna be at least one Jack or something. If you
Speaker 3: don't know one, you dated one, or you are one.
Speaker 3: For boys, Oliver is still in the top spot, remaining
Speaker 3: the firm favorite for the ninth year. Other popular names
Speaker 3: include Noah, Jack and Henry. However, William has been bumped
Speaker 3: down to sith after sitting at number two for a
Speaker 3: number of two years.
Speaker 4: William has I got to do with the royal family.
Speaker 3: I'm not really across the monarchy, but I'm sure there's
Speaker 3: something there isn't that that's fun?
Speaker 4: Do you know another Lilian? I don't know. I don't
Speaker 4: think I know a double l. Lillian as a very
Speaker 4: rogue name.
Speaker 2: And your brother's name is Rodney, Rodney and Maxwell, Yeah,
Speaker 2: what's going on? Fantastic name. They're great names, but I'm
Speaker 2: not seeing them all together. Yeah, no synergy, No, they
Speaker 2: make sense together.
Speaker 3: Rodney, liar and colonial, which is like it's a bit
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 4: They won't get into it. Your loose cinder. What is that?
Speaker 4: I'm has it not taken off?
Speaker 3: It's giving grandma, Yeah, it's it's it's aged, but so
Speaker 3: is Lilian. Lilian's a six year old woman with a pomeranium,
Speaker 3: you know, and Bengals.
Speaker 4: We often joke about this off air.
Speaker 2: Our next iteration of radio show is when we're going
Speaker 2: to replace Jonesy and Amanda and Lacinda.
Speaker 4: It's perfect. The brand never has to stop anyway.
Speaker 3: I love that. I just want to know more things
Speaker 3: about names. I wish that we had more of, like
Speaker 3: the origin stories about names. Like let's say I googled,
Speaker 3: like what does Lilian mean? I need a real story,
Speaker 3: not like it's Latin' so lily flower or ring.
Speaker 1: This is Flex and Froomes.
Speaker 2: Something that Flex talks about at length is moral dilemmas
Speaker 2: and like interpersonal relationships. I'm just here to really tell
Speaker 2: incriminating stories about my life because I don't really critically
Speaker 2: think it's for balance. Yeah, we all have our strengths well,
Speaker 2: today I'm coming to the table trying to level up
Speaker 2: and bring some moral thoughts and some lessons. That's really hard,
Speaker 2: and this one is that see I've written it down,
Speaker 2: so this is going to be a bit proscriptive because
Speaker 2: I'm not used to doing it.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm happy to close my eyes and listen.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I've been keeping up with the Johnny Depp
Speaker 2: first Amber Heard debarcle.
Speaker 4: We're not going to get into it today. It's a
Speaker 4: it's a core case. It's not really entertained debarkle. Some
Speaker 4: call it a circus, which I'm going to stop you
Speaker 4: right there.
Speaker 2: And I'm interested in the discussion around it because obviously
Speaker 2: you would have seen people like going die hard for
Speaker 2: Johnny Depp, people doing a lot of hate about Amber.
Speaker 2: And in my research I found out that what people
Speaker 2: do in these situations is create bots that disseminate fake information. So,
Speaker 2: for example, eleven percent of the awful kind of like
Speaker 2: social media chatter around Amber heard is from bots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you'll create and it's kind of like an
Speaker 3: allegedly who would create these bots.
Speaker 4: Allegedly far right in cell reddit types. I understand they're creating.
Speaker 2: These pots and of course, we live online, so we
Speaker 2: often see things play out in the court of social media,
Speaker 2: and I find that a really interesting place to be,
Speaker 2: especially in circles that we find ourselves in. I think
Speaker 2: we are in like relatively progressive circles, and I've definitely
Speaker 2: seen it go both ways. I've seen very progressive people
Speaker 2: do savage takedowns, which I think when you first start
Speaker 2: seeing it, it's quite entertaining. It's giving you shodden freud
Speaker 2: or whatever. You're like, this would never be me. I
Speaker 2: would never make that mistake, and so I find it
Speaker 2: really interesting the psychology behind why people get around it.
Speaker 2: And I came across a paper which talks about morally
Speaker 2: motivated networked harassment as a normative reinforcement.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 4: I know it's giving you.
Speaker 2: So the study suggests that moral outrage is used to
Speaker 2: justify networked harassment on social media. In morally motivated networked harassment,
Speaker 2: a member of a social network or online community accuses
Speaker 2: a target a violating their network's norms. The way to
Speaker 2: explain that is you've got a community flex Mummy's community,
Speaker 2: and you mobilize them to hate on frooms. Yes, because
Speaker 2: Froomes has said eat my pooh, and you're like, that
Speaker 2: is absolutely outrageous.
Speaker 4: That's here pretty princesses would never say that, yeaol, audience
Speaker 4: comes against me.
Speaker 3: The bit I love most is the morally motivated thing,
Speaker 3: right when people frame these takedowns as you know, I'm
Speaker 3: upholding moral values. But in upholding this morality, you're doing
Speaker 3: very immoral things.
Speaker 2: Network members send harassing messages to the target, reinforcing their
Speaker 2: adherence to the norm and signaling network membership. So in
Speaker 2: doing that, they're making their sense of belonging even stronger,
Speaker 2: making ties with the other members, and making sure that
Speaker 2: they're never going to be on the outer. It's like
Speaker 2: classic social study type of things. And basically now the
Speaker 2: platforms nor legal regulations protect against this form of harassment.
Speaker 2: And yes, so it's just going to continue kind of happening.
Speaker 2: I don't know how we're going to get around it.
Speaker 3: I guess we don't. I think the most important thing
Speaker 3: here is that everybody arms themselves with the gusto and
Speaker 3: the confidence and the vocabulary to defend themselves. So if
Speaker 3: you find yourself on the attack, you can justify why
Speaker 3: it is or is not appropriate. Like, for example, I
Speaker 3: used to say I could never be canceled because one
Speaker 3: thing about me. If you're going to heut me, I've
Speaker 3: added myself.
Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't go on the internet and pretend I'm moral.
Speaker 3: I say I'm capitalism handmaiden. I say that I'm here
Speaker 3: for my own self gain. So when I behave in
Speaker 3: that way, you can't be surprised. I already set it
Speaker 3: up for you. I think in terms of morally motivated harassment,
Speaker 3: the best way to manage that is to recognize that
Speaker 3: not everybody's in a position to hold you accountable, and
Speaker 3: not everybody is holding you accountable for your best interest.
Speaker 3: Some people just want an opportunity to exercise power.
Speaker 2: Very hard to decipher between the two.
Speaker 4: When you're under attack.
Speaker 3: It is true, and I think you know when you
Speaker 3: are quote unquote under attack. I think that phrasing frames
Speaker 3: a victim and an oppressor really quickly, And sometimes being
Speaker 3: under attack is just being called in, being reminded of
Speaker 3: appropriate behavior, being reminded of social norms, Like it's not
Speaker 3: always an attack just because I doesn't feel good. I
Speaker 3: think framing things is like I'm under attack because I
Speaker 3: was told that something isn't right by a bunch of
Speaker 3: people is always going to frame you as a victim
Speaker 3: and leaves very little room for either party to talk
Speaker 3: comfortably about what to do next.
Speaker 4: Very very interesting.
Speaker 1: You've been listening to The Flex and Rooms catch Up
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