Speaker 1: Nigel marsh isn't someone who beats around the bush. And
Speaker 1: I should know because I worked for him for several
Speaker 1: years when he was the CEO of ad agency Leo Burnett.
Speaker 1: But after stepping away from an enormously successful career as
Speaker 1: a corporate CEO, Nigel went on to become a best
Speaker 1: selling author, ted speaker, host of the hit podcast Five
Speaker 1: of My Life, and a highly sought after executive coach.
Speaker 1: As an executive coach, Nigel sees his job as being
Speaker 1: to help clients get out of their own way, but
Speaker 1: there is one piece of advice he finds himself coming
Speaker 1: back to over and over again. My name is doctor
Speaker 1: amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of
Speaker 1: behavioral science consultancy Inventium, And this is how I work
Speaker 1: a show about how to help you do your best work.
Speaker 1: On today's my Favorite Tip episode, will you go back
Speaker 1: to an interview from the past and I pick out
Speaker 1: my favorite tip from the interview. In today's show, I
Speaker 1: speak with Nigel about the common questions and pieces of
Speaker 1: advice he finds himself giving to his coaching clients.
Speaker 2: The one on one coaching that I do that I
Speaker 2: take incredibly seriously. I mean, that's a very special relationship.
Speaker 2: It's mainly based around the work of the lady who's
Speaker 2: my next episode on five of My Life, Nancy Klein,
Speaker 2: and it's based around deep listening. So it isn't actually
Speaker 2: I mean it's easy to poke fun at this, It
Speaker 2: isn't actually giving advice. It's asking proper questions and just
Speaker 2: listening because I deeply believe that people have their own answers.
Speaker 2: But you can pose, you know, you can say what's
Speaker 2: getting in your way? What limiting assumptions might you have?
Speaker 2: That there's a host of really really really proper, thoughtful,
Speaker 2: open questions that you can ask repeatedly and not interrupt people,
Speaker 2: and they develop the answers in front of you. I
Speaker 2: don't go in and say, do you know what I
Speaker 2: reckon you should do X, Y and Z. But given
Speaker 2: my confession about I give advice, it is I'd probably
Speaker 2: say two things as in most common to say, and
Speaker 2: one is the main thing is keeping the main thing
Speaker 2: the main thing, and that's life transformative. So you know,
Speaker 2: I speak to people who there's obviously one big drama
Speaker 2: in their life that needs to be sorted out before
Speaker 2: anything else, like I don't know, they're in the wrong job,
Speaker 2: they're in the wrong marriage, whatever it might be. And
Speaker 2: then they come in and they're crapping on about a
Speaker 2: whole host of other things, and you go, what you know,
Speaker 2: I don't say, but you go and is that the
Speaker 2: biggest It's easier sometimes not sometimes most of the time
Speaker 2: to attend to things that aren't the real thing. It's
Speaker 2: like people who are drinking problems. It's they do a
Speaker 2: whole host of stuff other than give up drinking, or
Speaker 2: people are flat. You go, the last thing I'd actually
Speaker 2: want to do is eat less. And you go, well,
Speaker 2: what maybe the very thing that you should be doing?
Speaker 2: So you know, the main thing is keeping the main
Speaker 2: thing the main thing. The second thing comes to the
Speaker 2: consultancy I've run called West thirty second where the mantra
Speaker 2: that I wrote, which I believe applies to life and
Speaker 2: applies to business is clarity, alignment, momentum. And most people
Speaker 2: in business and in life like to start with momentum
Speaker 2: because it's busy and you're doing things and you know
Speaker 2: that just get going and you go, well, actually, how
Speaker 2: about we think about and this comes down to my
Speaker 2: work in work life balance. I get sent all around
Speaker 2: the world to talk about this where and some of
Speaker 2: the jokey conversations that you and I have and some
Speaker 2: of the other people who work in the space where
Speaker 2: I take the But I've changed today. I promised you
Speaker 2: I've changed today. But all these efficiency experts who want
Speaker 2: to turn you into a sodding corporate athlete drive me
Speaker 2: up the wall. But they only drive me up the
Speaker 2: wall if you haven't done the clarity and alignment piece.
Speaker 2: I really like the work that you Andrew may Adam Grant,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, all these wonderful lapts experts do if
Speaker 2: you've done the clarity in alignment. So being ever more
Speaker 2: efficient if you haven't worked out what you want to
Speaker 2: be and how you want to live is actually destructive.
Speaker 2: You just might do even more of the wrong thing
Speaker 2: even more efficiently.
Speaker 1: So how do you get clarity? Like? What are some
Speaker 1: questions that you ask people to help them get to
Speaker 1: that point of clarity.
Speaker 2: Just pretend I were to coach you, I'd start with homework,
Speaker 2: so I would ask you very open, very open questions.
Speaker 2: Where could you write down you know, just where you're at,
Speaker 2: Describe where you're at and tell me a bit about
Speaker 2: your hopes and dreams and what you feel the most
Speaker 2: important issues are on your mind, just general stuff. And
Speaker 2: don't you say, oh, how much a page? No, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: just just whatever whatever strikes you. And then you'll send
Speaker 2: me something and just pretend it's twenty five pages about
Speaker 2: how you hate your boyfriend. And I didn't ask you
Speaker 2: about your boyfriend. You've just written twenty five pages about
Speaker 2: your bloody boyfriend. Someone else could write back, and there's
Speaker 2: one page I want to be richer, yeah, or I
Speaker 2: hate my boss? Is you love so much? Without it?
Speaker 2: Is to absolutely hold myself to the principle of having
Speaker 2: no assumptions. So I could look at you and go
Speaker 2: I could tell I could tell you what your issues
Speaker 2: are just from looking at you on the screen. You go, no, no,
Speaker 2: you can't, Nigel, let her talk, Let her talk. When
Speaker 2: she finishes, don't say anything. She'll talk again. And when
Speaker 2: she finishes and she doesn't say anything, just prompt her
Speaker 2: and say, tell me more about that amount to the
Speaker 2: thing about you're not being fully satisfied about your career?
Speaker 2: What does and then you talk again? You talk again,
Speaker 2: You're talking, don't have any Oh gosh, I can't wait
Speaker 2: to come in with my advice about the main thing.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no no. I might have a client
Speaker 2: who's completely clear on what the main thing is, totally clear,
Speaker 2: but they've got another problem. So I just it's a
Speaker 2: loving act of being fully present and engaging and not
Speaker 2: knowing the answer. I never know the answer, but not
Speaker 2: knowing where I'm going to go next until I feel
Speaker 2: I've fully fully drawn out of whoever it is I'm
Speaker 2: consulting or coaching, where they are currently at, and what
Speaker 2: is important to them.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this extract from my chat with Nigel,
Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the
Speaker 1: whole episode, which you can find a link to in
Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to
Speaker 1: improve the way that you work, I write a short
Speaker 1: fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered
Speaker 1: that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets
Speaker 1: that I'm loving three to interesting research findings. You can
Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot co. That's how
Speaker 1: I Work dot co. Thank you for sharing part of
Speaker 1: your day with me by listening to How I Work.
Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work
Speaker 1: better connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very
Speaker 1: easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I
Speaker 1: Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Werrangery people,
Speaker 1: part of the cool And Nation. I am so grateful
Speaker 1: for being able to work and live on this beautiful
Speaker 1: land and I want to pay my respects to elders, past,
Speaker 1: present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium
Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank you
Speaker 1: to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes
Speaker 1: everything sound better than it would have otherwise.