1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Nigel marsh isn't someone who beats around the bush. And 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: I should know because I worked for him for several 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: years when he was the CEO of ad agency Leo Burnett. 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: But after stepping away from an enormously successful career as 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: a corporate CEO, Nigel went on to become a best 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: selling author, ted speaker, host of the hit podcast Five 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: of My Life, and a highly sought after executive coach. 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: As an executive coach, Nigel sees his job as being 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: to help clients get out of their own way, but 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: there is one piece of advice he finds himself coming 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: back to over and over again. My name is doctor 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of 13 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: behavioral science consultancy Inventium, And this is how I work 14 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: a show about how to help you do your best work. 15 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: On today's my Favorite Tip episode, will you go back 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: to an interview from the past and I pick out 17 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: my favorite tip from the interview. In today's show, I 18 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: speak with Nigel about the common questions and pieces of 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: advice he finds himself giving to his coaching clients. 20 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: The one on one coaching that I do that I 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: take incredibly seriously. I mean, that's a very special relationship. 22 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 2: It's mainly based around the work of the lady who's 23 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 2: my next episode on five of My Life, Nancy Klein, 24 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: and it's based around deep listening. So it isn't actually 25 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: I mean it's easy to poke fun at this, It 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: isn't actually giving advice. It's asking proper questions and just 27 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: listening because I deeply believe that people have their own answers. 28 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: But you can pose, you know, you can say what's 29 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: getting in your way? What limiting assumptions might you have? 30 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: That there's a host of really really really proper, thoughtful, 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: open questions that you can ask repeatedly and not interrupt people, 32 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: and they develop the answers in front of you. I 33 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 2: don't go in and say, do you know what I 34 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: reckon you should do X, Y and Z. But given 35 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: my confession about I give advice, it is I'd probably 36 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 2: say two things as in most common to say, and 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: one is the main thing is keeping the main thing 38 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 2: the main thing, and that's life transformative. So you know, 39 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: I speak to people who there's obviously one big drama 40 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: in their life that needs to be sorted out before 41 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: anything else, like I don't know, they're in the wrong job, 42 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: they're in the wrong marriage, whatever it might be. And 43 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 2: then they come in and they're crapping on about a 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: whole host of other things, and you go, what you know, 45 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: I don't say, but you go and is that the 46 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: biggest It's easier sometimes not sometimes most of the time 47 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: to attend to things that aren't the real thing. It's 48 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: like people who are drinking problems. It's they do a 49 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 2: whole host of stuff other than give up drinking, or 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 2: people are flat. You go, the last thing I'd actually 51 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: want to do is eat less. And you go, well, 52 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: what maybe the very thing that you should be doing? 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: So you know, the main thing is keeping the main 54 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: thing the main thing. The second thing comes to the 55 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: consultancy I've run called West thirty second where the mantra 56 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: that I wrote, which I believe applies to life and 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: applies to business is clarity, alignment, momentum. And most people 58 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: in business and in life like to start with momentum 59 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: because it's busy and you're doing things and you know 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: that just get going and you go, well, actually, how 61 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: about we think about and this comes down to my 62 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: work in work life balance. I get sent all around 63 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: the world to talk about this where and some of 64 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: the jokey conversations that you and I have and some 65 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: of the other people who work in the space where 66 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: I take the But I've changed today. I promised you 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: I've changed today. But all these efficiency experts who want 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: to turn you into a sodding corporate athlete drive me 69 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: up the wall. But they only drive me up the 70 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: wall if you haven't done the clarity and alignment piece. 71 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: I really like the work that you Andrew may Adam Grant, 72 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: blah blah blah, all these wonderful lapts experts do if 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: you've done the clarity in alignment. So being ever more 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 2: efficient if you haven't worked out what you want to 75 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: be and how you want to live is actually destructive. 76 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: You just might do even more of the wrong thing 77 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: even more efficiently. 78 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: So how do you get clarity? Like? What are some 79 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: questions that you ask people to help them get to 80 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: that point of clarity. 81 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: Just pretend I were to coach you, I'd start with homework, 82 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: so I would ask you very open, very open questions. 83 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: Where could you write down you know, just where you're at, 84 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: Describe where you're at and tell me a bit about 85 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: your hopes and dreams and what you feel the most 86 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: important issues are on your mind, just general stuff. And 87 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: don't you say, oh, how much a page? No, no, no, no, 88 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: just just whatever whatever strikes you. And then you'll send 89 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,559 Speaker 2: me something and just pretend it's twenty five pages about 90 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: how you hate your boyfriend. And I didn't ask you 91 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: about your boyfriend. You've just written twenty five pages about 92 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: your bloody boyfriend. Someone else could write back, and there's 93 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 2: one page I want to be richer, yeah, or I 94 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: hate my boss? Is you love so much? Without it? 95 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: Is to absolutely hold myself to the principle of having 96 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 2: no assumptions. So I could look at you and go 97 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 2: I could tell I could tell you what your issues 98 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: are just from looking at you on the screen. You go, no, no, 99 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: you can't, Nigel, let her talk, Let her talk. When 100 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: she finishes, don't say anything. She'll talk again. And when 101 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: she finishes and she doesn't say anything, just prompt her 102 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: and say, tell me more about that amount to the 103 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: thing about you're not being fully satisfied about your career? 104 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: What does and then you talk again? You talk again, 105 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 2: You're talking, don't have any Oh gosh, I can't wait 106 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: to come in with my advice about the main thing. 107 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: No no, no, no no. I might have a client 108 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: who's completely clear on what the main thing is, totally clear, 109 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 2: but they've got another problem. So I just it's a 110 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 2: loving act of being fully present and engaging and not 111 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 2: knowing the answer. I never know the answer, but not 112 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: knowing where I'm going to go next until I feel 113 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: I've fully fully drawn out of whoever it is I'm 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: consulting or coaching, where they are currently at, and what 115 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 2: is important to them. 116 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: If you enjoy this extract from my chat with Nigel, 117 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the 118 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: whole episode, which you can find a link to in 119 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to 120 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: improve the way that you work, I write a short 121 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered 122 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 1: that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets 123 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: that I'm loving three to interesting research findings. You can 124 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot co. That's how 125 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: I Work dot co. Thank you for sharing part of 126 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: your day with me by listening to How I Work. 127 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work 128 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: better connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very 129 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I 130 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Werrangery people, 131 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: part of the cool And Nation. I am so grateful 132 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: for being able to work and live on this beautiful 133 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: land and I want to pay my respects to elders, past, 134 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium 135 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios, and thank you 136 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes 137 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: everything sound better than it would have otherwise.