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Speaker 1: On Saturday, the Northern Territory Police said that they're continuing

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Speaker 1: to investigate those disturbances that occurred in Alice Springs last week.

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Speaker 1: So since that violence on Tuesday, police have now arrested

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Speaker 1: eight mails, with five now having been charged for various

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Speaker 1: stages of offending. Investigations to remain ongoing, and detectives from

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Speaker 1: Crime Command and Strike Force Viper expect that further arrests

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Speaker 1: and charges are going to come over the coming days

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Speaker 1: so well.

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Speaker 2: Joining us on.

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Speaker 1: The line right now is Lea Fanocchiaro, the opposition leader.

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Speaker 3: Good morning to you, Leah, Good morning Katie, and to

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Speaker 3: your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, it seems that people of Alice Springs had

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Speaker 1: a bit of a better weekend than some of the

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Speaker 1: behavior that we saw in town last week. I mean

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Speaker 1: the bar was very very low indeed, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: all smooth sailing. Fifty Seven young people were reportedly found

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Speaker 1: violating the curfew on Sunday night.

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Speaker 2: Lea, do you think this curfew is working well?

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Speaker 3: I think it's keeping a problem mitigated in and then

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Speaker 3: pushing it out into the suburbs, and ultimately it's a

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Speaker 3: band aid. We've got fifty police from Darwin now in

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Speaker 3: Alice Springs doing their best to help out. But once

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Speaker 3: that band aid is ripped off in another week or so, Katie,

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Speaker 3: what's going to happen for people in Alice Springs. And

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Speaker 3: certainly we continued to see very serious offending over the

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Speaker 3: weekend with a range of stolen weapons for example, and

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Speaker 3: break ins across the industrial area. So it's still you know,

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Speaker 3: Alice Springs is not in the clear. Until we walk

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Speaker 3: into Parliament and labor make the laws stronger, there is

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Speaker 3: going to be no stopping this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're very right in saying that we've had

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Speaker 1: a massive weekend by the look of things with crime.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just going through some of the pressure

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Speaker 1: releases that have been issued by the Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot to get through.

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Speaker 1: But do you think with that curfew due to end

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Speaker 1: Wednesday next week, right smack bang in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the school holidays, should that be extended?

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Speaker 2: Well it's again.

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Speaker 3: Interesting and shows a government, you know, just make this

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Speaker 3: up as they go along, that they would even think

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Speaker 3: to finish a curve for you halfway through school holidays.

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Speaker 3: That just shows the level of incompetence. I think it

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Speaker 3: should probably be extended. But again, where are those police

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Speaker 3: going to come from. Who is going to be able

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Speaker 3: to enforce this? It's just, you know, it's a never

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Speaker 3: ending question, Katie, and that's why we've got to go

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Speaker 3: into Parliament and just fix the laws. Everything else is just.

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Speaker 1: But even if you change those laws tomorrowly yes, that

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Speaker 1: would make an impact. But for Alice Springs right now,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to, you know, to have the impact

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Speaker 1: that I think you're pretending it will. You know, you

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Speaker 1: do need police there right now to stop that criminal

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Speaker 1: behavior and to stop people from doing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not arguing that we don't need law changes,

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Speaker 1: but right now they do need that fix.

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Speaker 2: They do need that respite.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there's no question that the community needs respite. We've

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Speaker 3: got fifty police from Darwin in Alice Springs, but this

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Speaker 3: is temper. That's fifty police who aren't with their families

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Speaker 3: and who aren't able to do their job in Darwin.

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Speaker 3: So we've got a situation where you know, again this

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Speaker 3: government is robbing Peter to pay Paul for. A solution

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Speaker 3: for Alice Springs requires much stronger laws, It requires boot camps,

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Speaker 3: it requires a range of programs that labor have failed

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Speaker 3: for eight years to deliver, and so extending the curf

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Speaker 3: you a couple of days over the holidays or here

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Speaker 3: and there, it again might make the CBD quiet. But

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Speaker 3: where what we're seeing then is a problem pushing out

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Speaker 3: into the suburbs, into industrial areas. And ultimately, you can

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Speaker 3: have as many police as you like, Katie, if they

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Speaker 3: don't have the power to deal with the problem at hand,

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Speaker 3: then it's a very ineffective way of dealing with the

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Speaker 3: crist crisis.

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Speaker 1: Are effectively what you're saying, though, by the sounds of

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Speaker 1: it is recall parliament. You know, recall Parliament last week.

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Speaker 2: I get that.

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Speaker 1: I understand you want the law to change, but so

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't have a curfew in place, so you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be sending extra police off says to Alice Springs, because

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Speaker 1: you told us last week that you didn't want the

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Speaker 1: AFP to go in and help either.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Katie, we've welcomed the fact that this government has

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Speaker 3: finally done something, but it's taken an outrageous right in

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Speaker 3: the middle of the day to deliver a short term reprieve.

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Speaker 3: What we're calling for is long term reprieve. For a

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Speaker 3: community that for years has been telling Labor that they

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Speaker 3: have got it wrong. And what's really really concerning Katie

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Speaker 3: is a bit of a bombshell that Eva Laula has

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Speaker 3: clearly let slip on ABC Radio this morning around the

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Speaker 3: fact that Salt Bush no longer exists. Now, this has

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Speaker 3: been a suspicion I've had for a long time with

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Speaker 3: the what I've thought is a rebranding of government policy

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Speaker 3: from boo supported accommodation to now they're calling it residential

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Speaker 3: support or some other rubbish. But the reality is the

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Speaker 3: reason no young people are being taken to Salt Bush

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Speaker 3: is because it's not there, and that's why all of

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Speaker 3: these kids are being taken back to a so called response,

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Speaker 3: which if they were responded saying.

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Speaker 1: That there's no facilities, you're saying that there's no facility

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Speaker 1: operating at all.

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Speaker 3: Well, my understanding is Eva Laula confirmed that this morning

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Speaker 3: on ABC Radio.

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Speaker 1: And certainly I thought it would be rebranded or I

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Speaker 1: thought that somebody else, another operator had taken over.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the government will be the ones taking over.

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Speaker 2: But are you sure of that?

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, Eva Laula has said that on radio herself.

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Speaker 3: She said a couple of weeks ago that it would

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Speaker 3: be the government that would be running the facility now,

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Speaker 3: and I've been questioning whether the locations of these facilities

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Speaker 3: are exactly the same as the locations of our supported accommodation.

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Speaker 3: So clearly something has gone on. I don't know what, Katie,

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Speaker 3: but you're putting.

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Speaker 2: It out there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about it this morning. So what

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Speaker 1: do you think has gone on?

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Speaker 3: Well, clearly something's happened. Either Saltbush and no longer running

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Speaker 3: those programs, either the facilities have been shut down. Something

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Speaker 3: has happened for the government to then try and cover

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Speaker 3: this up and rebadget as a government run facility with

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Speaker 3: a new name. And so it's again another example of

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Speaker 3: limiting options for our police on what they can do,

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Speaker 3: limiting options for our courts, because of course BAO supported

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Speaker 3: Accommodation was a place where our courts could bail young

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Speaker 3: people too. And so if Labor continues to get this

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Speaker 3: wrong and these facilities are shut then there's even less

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Speaker 3: options for our police and our courts to be dealing

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Speaker 3: with the problem at hand. It just shows the level

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Speaker 3: of mismanagement by Labor on this issue, which is why

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Speaker 3: we're more focused on long term solutions like strengthening the law.

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Speaker 1: All right, So last week on the show, I don't

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Speaker 1: know whether you heard, but the President of the Police Association,

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Speaker 1: Nathan Finn, raised legal concerns around the curfew. NAJA has

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Speaker 1: also raised concerns over the course of the weekend as well,

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, the Criminal Lawyers Association too. But

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister's standing firm dismissing possible legal challenges being

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Speaker 1: launched against the curfew, saying that she's confident the emergency

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Speaker 1: measures were backed by the law. The Chief Minister says,

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Speaker 1: bring it on. I'm more than happy to have legal

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Speaker 1: challenges around that.

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Speaker 2: Lea. Do you think that this curfew needs to be

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Speaker 2: rolled back?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a serious question. I think the

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Speaker 3: NTPA has it raised a good point because the Emergency

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Speaker 3: Management Act is explicitly clear that it cannot be used

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Speaker 3: and I'll quote it to put down a riot or

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Speaker 3: other civil disturbance. So that's what the law says that

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Speaker 3: the Emergency Management Act can't be used for. So I

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Speaker 3: think government does need to come out and make sure

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Speaker 3: that what it's doing is actually lawful, because what it

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Speaker 3: does is puts our police in jeopardy, and of course

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Speaker 3: everyone wants to make sure that our police are supported

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Speaker 3: to exercise the right powers. But again, if we were

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Speaker 3: in parliament cating.

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Speaker 2: Riot and what we saw last week is not an emergency.

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Speaker 3: What is well, I think the problem is the Emergency

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Speaker 3: Management Act was envisaged for more natural type emergency, so

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Speaker 3: flood fire cyclone those types of powers to enact in

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Speaker 3: those types of natural disaster situation. So this one, again

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Speaker 3: is for government to deal with. And if it's a

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Speaker 3: powers issue, the only way you can fix powers is

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Speaker 3: to be in Parliament and give police the powers they need.

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Speaker 1: No doubt it is a government issue. You know, you

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Speaker 1: guys aren't empower everybody gets that. But I think that

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Speaker 1: I think that what's happening right now is people are

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Speaker 1: looking at you and they're going, all right, well, this

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Speaker 1: is our alternative Chief Minister. So the you know, the

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Speaker 1: half pregnant, half baked dancers aren't cutting it anymore.

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Speaker 3: But Katie, we would not be in this situation under

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Speaker 3: the CLP because I would have walked into Parlis.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, no matter what happens, you're not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to turn back time. You're not

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Speaker 1: actually going to reverse the decisions that the government's made.

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Speaker 1: So you are going to be in a situation if

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Speaker 1: if you do get elected come August, where you're going

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Speaker 1: to have to deal with what you may view as

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Speaker 1: some of the Northern Territory government'smiths and people are now

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Speaker 1: looking at you going, well, what are your answers to

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Speaker 1: these questions and what are you going to do differently

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Speaker 1: because saying that you're going to recall parliament, like, that's

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Speaker 1: all fine and good, but you've got an emergency situation

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Speaker 1: on the streets of Alice Springs right now.

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Speaker 3: The emergency situation is the making of Labour's mess. If

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Speaker 3: we're elected to government in August, which is August the

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Speaker 3: very first sittings of Parliament, we will walk in and

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Speaker 3: strengthen the law, give police more powers, lower the age

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Speaker 3: of criminal responsibility, hold parents accountable for their children, force

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Speaker 3: children who aren't going to school to be at school,

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Speaker 3: and how now.

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Speaker 1: How quickly do you think that territorians will see a

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Speaker 1: difference to the criminal behavior that they're seeing at the

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Speaker 1: moment and the very poor behavior that they're seeing at

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Speaker 1: the moment.

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Speaker 3: By the end of the year, Katie, So there is

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Speaker 3: no question that we can make immediate change by changing

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Speaker 3: the law stopping the revolving door of bail, people will

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Speaker 3: see immediate change. Now, we've also got the longer term

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Speaker 3: work that has to be done around getting kids to school,

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Speaker 3: holding parents accountable, making sure there's use boot camps out

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Speaker 3: there to correct behavior and get these kids out of

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Speaker 3: a cycle of crime. But it all starts by immediately

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Speaker 3: making sure our community is safe. And to do that,

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Speaker 3: police have to have the better powers to be able

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Speaker 3: to do that. Our laws have to put the rights

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Speaker 3: of people to be safe first, which means we have

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Speaker 3: to make sure that that revolving door of bail does

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Speaker 3: not continue. So that's what we would do.

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Speaker 2: Just with the salt Bush stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think, Zich, do you think there

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Speaker 1: does need to be an inquiry? Would the COLP would

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Speaker 1: if you are elected, would a COLP government hold an

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Speaker 1: inquiry into non government organization funding, because you know, salt

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Speaker 1: Bush could be an example of how these organizations can't

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Speaker 1: actually do the jobs that they're funded for.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, we need to make sure there's an audit.

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Speaker 3: We've been very very clear that an audit must take

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Speaker 3: place because there's hundreds of millions if not billions of

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Speaker 3: dollars going to these issues and we're not seeing any

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Speaker 3: better results. No one's life is better under Labour's handling

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Speaker 3: or mishandling of this crime crisis, and so we need

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Speaker 3: to be making sure that we understand where the money

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Speaker 3: is going, what the outcomes are, whether or not the

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Speaker 3: services are delivering adequately. If there's duplication, how we can

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Speaker 3: better make sure that the resources are being spread to

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Speaker 3: deliver a wider range of services. There is no question

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Speaker 3: that an audit needs to be done.

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Speaker 1: So that's something you commit to if you are elected.

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Speaker 1: That is something that you'll absolutely commit to.

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Speaker 3: This was our idea, Katie. We wrote to the Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister about this in January last year, so this has

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Speaker 3: actually come from us. We've now had others back it in,

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Speaker 3: which is fantastic. But this started with the COLP. We

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Speaker 3: called for the audit well over a year ago and

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Speaker 3: Labor has failed to deliver up because they don't want

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Speaker 3: to hold people accountable or themselves accountable for where they're failing.

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Speaker 3: And until we look under the hood, we're not going

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Speaker 3: to be able to drive forward and address these issues.

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Speaker 1: All right. I know that the CLP's got some concerns

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Speaker 1: with some of the behavior that we've seen in Catherine

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Speaker 1: over the weekend. What's you worry Well.

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Speaker 3: We've had hideous instances of crime in Catherine, Katie, really

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Speaker 3: scary stuff. I mean the footage you've seen from the

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Speaker 3: Servo service station, the United Service station. That lady she's

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Speaker 3: quit the same date she's gone. She's no longer going

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Speaker 3: to be contributing to the economy in Catherine because she's

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Speaker 3: had enough. There was a teacher who had a knife

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Speaker 3: held to their throat while their cars are being stolen.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable understanding is that teacher has now left and gone

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Speaker 3: and come to Darwin. So that's two really critical people

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Speaker 3: being taken out of the system. In Catherine, a small

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Speaker 3: community where you're trying to attract and retain people to work.

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Speaker 3: They can't take it anymore. And no one can blame

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Speaker 3: those people for saying enough's enough. I mean, you've got

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Speaker 3: to put your life and your health and well being first.

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Speaker 3: But as a result of that, you have diminishing ability

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Speaker 3: to deliver services in that town.

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Speaker 2: To offer choice.

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Speaker 3: And this is how profound the crime situation is. We

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Speaker 3: cannot grow our economy and have strong communities when crime

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Speaker 3: is out of control.

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Speaker 2: Like this, Leah.

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Speaker 1: We are this week expecting the review into police resources

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Speaker 1: to be released. The Chief Minister was set to receive

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Speaker 1: that review, as I understand it, last week. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that it is going to find that we are

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Speaker 1: seriously short on police?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it will show that we're short on police.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we needed an independent review to tell

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Speaker 3: us that. What it hopefully tells us is how many.

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Speaker 3: But you know, this is a government that talks about

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Speaker 3: being bipartisan on crime and there's one thing and does another.

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Speaker 3: This review is supposed to be independent. Now we've learned

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Speaker 3: that evil Law has had an interim copy for six weeks.

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Speaker 3: She's now had the final version over the weekend. This

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Speaker 3: is also that she can develop up some sort of

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Speaker 3: election pitch plan. We have not seen it the Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Well, no one's seen it, as I understand it, only

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Speaker 1: the Cabinet has seen it. And look, I would assume that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I would hope that we all actually get

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to see it over the coming days and

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Speaker 1: that we all have a really clear understanding. When I

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Speaker 1: say we all, I mean all Territorians have a really

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Speaker 1: clear understanding of just what is required for our Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory police because you know, as we can see right now,

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Speaker 1: with officers being sent to Alice Springs, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are worried about the impact that that's going to

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Speaker 1: have in other places like Darwin, places like Catherine, Tennant Creek,

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Speaker 1: not to mention our remote communities. So look, I do

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Speaker 1: hope that we all have the opportunity to see that

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Speaker 1: review in coming days. But Leah, a couple of people

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Speaker 1: just messaging through saying sorry, Katie.

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Speaker 2: So does Leah support the curfew.

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Speaker 3: We support that there has been immediate action.

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Speaker 2: What we also believe should have.

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Speaker 3: Happened is the urgent changing of the laws, because what

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Speaker 3: we've got right now is police driving around, putting kids

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Speaker 3: on a bus, taking them to an imaginary line at

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Speaker 3: the edge of the CBD and leaving them there. Now,

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Speaker 3: that is not enough, and so what we're calling for

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Speaker 3: is a longer term solution for Alice Springs, for Tenant Creek, Catherine,

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Speaker 3: Darwin and everywhere in between, which means we have to

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Speaker 3: strengthen the laws and give our police more powers to

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Speaker 3: be able to do their job.

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Speaker 1: And so just to get a really clear answer there

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Speaker 1: on those concerns that are being raised by both the

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Speaker 1: Police Association, the likes of NAJA and criminal lawyers. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that you know that this curfew is lawful?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a question that the government needs to.

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Speaker 1: Answers based on the information you've got in front of

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Speaker 1: you and and you know, based on the fact that

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Speaker 1: you are the opposition leader, do you think it's lawful?

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Speaker 3: Well, from reading the section as I did earlier, it

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Speaker 3: says it can't be used to put down a ride

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Speaker 3: or other civil disturbance. So Labour need to come out

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Speaker 3: and explain under which head of power the curfew is

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Speaker 3: being used under. That's what they need to do that

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Speaker 3: if they don't have one, the opportunity is there to

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Speaker 3: come back to Parliament and make sure we get that right.

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Speaker 1: So just to be really clear, I think for our

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Speaker 1: listeners as well this morning, if you I mean if

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Speaker 1: you were the Chief Finister right now, and I know

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Speaker 1: that you'll say you wouldn't be in this situation, but

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Speaker 1: if you were, would you have called for a curfew?

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Speaker 3: Well, Katie, I think there's a range of things we

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Speaker 3: could have done. You could immediately recall Parliament and strengthen

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Speaker 3: the law which would have been my preferred option, because

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Speaker 3: let's not forget our police can't.

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Speaker 1: But that immediate respite is required now. So I guess

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it is a yes. No question would you.

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Speaker 3: Have because what you're saying this doesn't exist. This is

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Speaker 3: a hypothetical in the extreme.

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Speaker 1: What I guess what people are wondering is whether you

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Speaker 1: would have had the guts to do it or not.

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Speaker 1: That's probably what people are mind asking.

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Speaker 3: This question of guards. I think Eva Laula that morning

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Speaker 3: was had no intention on delivering any change for Alice Springs.

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Speaker 3: The pressure came on, and by two o'clock she stumbled out,

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Speaker 3: held a press conference called a curfew without any detail,

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Speaker 3: not even sure if she has the power to do it,

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Speaker 3: and is hoping for the best with a situation that

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Speaker 3: has pushed the problem out into other parts of Alice Springs.

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Speaker 3: This is a band aid. It brings welcome reprieve to

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Speaker 3: the CBD, but not welcome reprieve to the broader community.

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Speaker 3: What I'm talking about is longer term change that makes

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Speaker 3: a difference in people's lives, no matter where they live.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, Lea, there's plenty of comments and questions

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Speaker 1: coming through on the tech Sidne, but we are going

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Speaker 1: to have to leave it there. Always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Hope you had a great Easter.

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Speaker 3: Yes you t Thank you everyone, Thank you