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Speaker 1: Usually on a Monday night you'll catch me on Sky

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Speaker 1: News with my next guest and Ali Clark from Mixing

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Speaker 1: Adelaide talking about the issues of the day. But not

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Speaker 1: tonight because my friend Chris Kenny has been working on

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Speaker 1: a documentary which airs tonight. It's called Liberals in Power

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Speaker 1: and Chris Kenny joins me on the line.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Chris, Katie.

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Speaker 3: It was a lot of work to give you a

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Speaker 3: night off.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it. It means I can go to football

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Speaker 2: training and watch the kids.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a lot of work over many, many months,

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Speaker 3: and of course I'm really pleased with what we've put

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Speaker 3: together with the team. But I'm excited about tonight where

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Speaker 3: everybody else gets to see it and we find out

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Speaker 3: what others think of it all.

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Speaker 1: Well, Chris, I've seen a couple of the primos. It

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Speaker 1: looks like it's going to be a fantastic documentary. Tell

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Speaker 1: our listeners exactly what it's about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, essentially, it's about the Liberals time and power. Nine

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Speaker 3: years they are in government from Tony Abbott's landslide victory

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Speaker 3: of twenty thirteen until Scott Morrison lost last year in May,

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Speaker 3: and of course you had to turn your mind back.

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Speaker 3: Everyone has to remember, of course, the chaos this country

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Speaker 3: had under Rudd, Gillard and Rudd in the Labor years,

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Speaker 3: where they completely butchered their time in government with all

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Speaker 3: those leadership changes and all that instability, and the Coalition

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Speaker 3: came to power promising that they'd be different. Their number

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Speaker 3: one promise really was to deliver grown up, adult government

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Speaker 3: and stability. And no one could have imagined that they

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Speaker 3: would come in and within one term would actually have

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Speaker 3: a leadership challenger and a prime minister cut down and

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Speaker 3: they'd go through the same process themselves. The very instability

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Speaker 3: they promised not to have they delivered to us. Of course,

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Speaker 3: we had three prime ministers over three terms. Scott Morrison

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Speaker 3: is the only prime minister since John Howard who was

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Speaker 3: elected who was in the job at one election needs

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Speaker 3: to last through to the next election, which of course

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Speaker 3: he was tossed out, but at least he survived the

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Speaker 3: full term. So we want to tell the story of

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Speaker 3: actually what went on and the policy challenges and the

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Speaker 3: events that challenged government over that time. Of course, there

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Speaker 3: was the COVID pandemic and we also said saw the

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Speaker 3: Orcus agreement struck we had our border security restored. There

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Speaker 3: was a lot happening, but the overarching theme, of course,

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Speaker 3: was all this instability. So it also pitches forward and

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Speaker 3: asks the question, you know, what went wrong with the

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Speaker 3: Liberal parties, how do they stop that going wrong again?

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Speaker 3: What do they need to do now to regain power?

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Speaker 3: Not just in camera, but of course right across the mainland.

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Speaker 3: There's not a coalition government on the mainland any longer,

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Speaker 3: so they really need to improve right across the board.

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Speaker 1: Chris, it does seem to be a bit of an issue.

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Speaker 1: You know that the Conservatives have gone around Australia at

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Speaker 1: the moment where there seems to be infighting, and I

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Speaker 1: know that that happens within the Labor Party as well,

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Speaker 1: but they seem to keep it a bit further behind

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Speaker 1: closed doors.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no doubt about it. And there's a real

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Speaker 3: sort of ideological struggle too within the Liberals and the

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Speaker 3: Coalition at the moment as to what sort of policies

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Speaker 3: they need to put together to win that power. Should

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Speaker 3: they try and match the tills if you go to

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Speaker 3: the left, or should they stick to their own fundamental values.

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Speaker 3: So we look at some of those sorts of issues

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Speaker 3: in the second installment of this documentary Tomorrow Night, with

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Speaker 3: people like John Howard offering their advice as to the

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Speaker 3: path forward, because he actually concedes that factionalism is a

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Speaker 3: big problem. It's gotten out of hand in the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 3: But he says both sides are to blame, the moderates

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Speaker 3: and the Conservatives, and I think with John Howard says

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Speaker 3: they've got together, act together and lift their game and

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Speaker 3: showed better leadership than I think most people in the

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Speaker 3: Liberal Party across the country. Should listen.

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Speaker 1: Are there any interviews in there that you reckon viewers

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Speaker 1: are going to be a bit surprised by.

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Speaker 3: I suppose there are. I think Barnaby is just so frank,

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Speaker 3: such a great turn of phrase from Barnaby Jewish talking

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Speaker 3: about the bonk fan and talking about what went wrong,

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Speaker 3: and he's fascinating to listen to. I think one of

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Speaker 3: my favorite parts of the documentary is a Senator James

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Speaker 3: McGrath from Queensland, because he does what so few politicians do.

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Speaker 3: He admits fault, he says he was wrong. He's one

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Speaker 3: of the key lieutenants who helped to now con Turnbull,

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Speaker 3: tear down Tony Abbott, and he says he was wrong

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Speaker 3: to do that. In hindsight, that was a mistake. He

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Speaker 3: shouldn't have done it. It damaged the government and damaged

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Speaker 3: the party. So that's obvious to all of us, right,

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Speaker 3: and we all knew it shouldn't have happened, and we

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Speaker 3: all know it was a mistake in hindsight. But to

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Speaker 3: have one of the key players actually admitting that, I

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Speaker 3: think is quite unusual because really everyone who is involved

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Speaker 3: in that push against Tony Abbot, they should all be

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Speaker 3: out there publicly admitting it was a mistake. Because to me,

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Speaker 3: that's when this whole period went off the rails. Once

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Speaker 3: they tore down Tony Abbot, they broke their core promise

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Speaker 3: of the ring stable at old government. Now we know

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Speaker 3: Tony haven't made mistakes, and we go through some of

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Speaker 3: those tonight, and there's some fantastic insights into the feelings

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Speaker 3: among his colleagues when Tony made those mistakes. But all

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Speaker 3: first term prime ministers make mistakes, and as a government

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Speaker 3: you just got to knit together and go forward and

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Speaker 3: try and deliver what you promise to do, not tear

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Speaker 3: down prime ministers before they even't got through their first term.

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Speaker 2: Chris, after making this stock Go.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the Liberals are on the road

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Speaker 1: to recovery after the after the last federal election, Well, I.

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Speaker 3: Think their spirits are up on the back of defeating

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Speaker 3: the Voice. Now, I was an advocate for the Yes

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Speaker 3: side on that. I thought it was the wrong thing

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Speaker 3: for the country for them to do that, but they

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Speaker 3: were successful. Sixty percent of their country agreed with them.

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Speaker 3: But it's a pretty easy thing to do, that is

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Speaker 3: to run a negative campaign against the referendum. As soon

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Speaker 3: as you decide to oppose referendum as a major party,

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Speaker 3: you virtually give it the kiss of death. So they

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Speaker 3: shouldn't get too carried away with that success. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you've got to give Peter Dutton his duty. He showed

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Speaker 3: strong leadership there and I think that's solidified the party

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Speaker 3: behind him. But in order to win government, they need

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Speaker 3: to show that same sort of leadership and spine, if

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Speaker 3: you like, on much tougher issues, for instance, climate policy

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Speaker 3: and energy. If they can really find the confidence and

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Speaker 3: strength to have a hard alternative to Labor on that,

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Speaker 3: I think it'll work for them. So likewise, on economic management,

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Speaker 3: it's like we're just saying that Labour's lost control of

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Speaker 3: the budget and the loss control of inflation and they're

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Speaker 3: not doing anything to help the cost of living. The

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Speaker 3: Coalition have to deliver some tough policies that would fix

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Speaker 3: that situation, and that requires actually promising to reduce government

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Speaker 3: spending and issues like that, and it's pretty tough. It's

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Speaker 3: pretty tough stuff. So I think Peter Uton's made a

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Speaker 3: good start, but I think they need to be very careful.

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Speaker 3: They don't overestimate the achievement of defeating that referendum. That

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Speaker 3: was a kick for Peter Dutton. But it's a whole

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Speaker 3: lot larder harder to deliver policies of substance. But I

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Speaker 3: think they could do it, mainly because I think Labour's

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Speaker 3: making such a hash of it, right. They promised to

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Speaker 3: reduce the cost of living, they promise to reduce mortgages,

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Speaker 3: and everything's going in the opposite direction. So I think

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Speaker 3: the times will suit Peter Dutton Labor are really failing

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Speaker 3: to deliver on their key promises. So the Coalitions should

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Speaker 3: be able to put up a pretty strong showing in

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Speaker 3: what should be an an election of a year to

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Speaker 3: eighteen months away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it will come down to us again, though,

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Speaker 1: what you pointed out a little earlier is you know,

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Speaker 1: whether they sort of stay down that path of being

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Speaker 1: quite a conservative party, or whether they do try to

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Speaker 1: match up with the Teals or some of the Teals ideas.

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Speaker 1: And that is where like you've said that those policy

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Speaker 1: settings are going to be so important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the tension, and we'll have people in this

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Speaker 3: documentary arguing both cases. In my view is you've got

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Speaker 3: to have strong policy differentiation. If I was to coalition,

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Speaker 3: i'd tear up the commitment to zero by twenty fifty

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Speaker 3: because it's impossible anyway. I have a clear point of difference.

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Speaker 3: But there are people there in the Liberal Party and

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Speaker 3: they we'll hear from some of them this documentary effectively,

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Speaker 3: so you should go further to the left on climate

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Speaker 3: change and deliver those Till policies. And as John Howard says,

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Speaker 3: you don't get anywhere in politics by promoting the policies

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Speaker 3: of your opponent.

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Speaker 2: That's right. It's a very very good point.

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Speaker 1: And Chris, I tell you, I had a bit of

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Speaker 1: a laugh this morning reading through the papers. And I

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Speaker 1: know that there's been a lot of talk about the

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Speaker 1: doco obviously before it is, but news court papers reporting

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Speaker 1: that as you touched on before, Barnaby Joyce discussing the

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Speaker 1: bonk ban and reportedly saying, what's this dipstick up to?

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Speaker 3: He wasn't happy, It's just a delightful little cameo. I

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Speaker 3: remember that afternoon. Well, I couldn't believe the Turbule up there,

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Speaker 3: weathering the whole week in Parliament with Barnaby's controversy's personal controversies.

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Speaker 3: Really they wear it all that and I thought that's it,

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Speaker 3: they can go away and try and regroup it. Instead,

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Speaker 3: on the Thursday afternoon, Malcolm Turbule comes out and announces

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Speaker 3: the bonk fan and I remember watching that on the

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Speaker 3: screens here at Sky News, thinking this is crazy. This

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Speaker 3: is the Prime Minister trying to make life tough for

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Speaker 3: his own deputy prime minister, trying to get rid of

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Speaker 3: his own deputy prime minister. And anyway, in the interview

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Speaker 3: we've done with Barnaby that you'll see in the documentary tonight,

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Speaker 3: he actually recounts this as Barnaby. He said he was

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Speaker 3: watching it on TV and couldn't believe what Malcolm Turble

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Speaker 3: was saying. So he got up, went to his window

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Speaker 3: and looked and he could see Malcolm Teble in the

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Speaker 3: courtyard giving this press conference, and he says, I couldn't

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Speaker 3: believe what this dipstick was up to. He then went

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Speaker 3: around to the Prime Minister's office. He rushed around there

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Speaker 3: at the end of the press conference to confront him

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Speaker 3: and he said Scott Morrison was there, just coming out

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Speaker 3: of the office. And he goes on to say, I

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Speaker 3: think quite presciently he said. He warned to Well via

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Speaker 3: Peter Dutton at the time. He said to Peter Dutton,

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Speaker 3: you should tell Malcolm that when he gets rid of me,

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Speaker 3: he'll be next. And sure enough, some months after Barnaby

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Speaker 3: Joyce was forced to quit. Malcolm indeed lost the leadership.

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Speaker 3: So he was spot on there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I tell you what.

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Speaker 1: People can say a lot about Barnaby Joyce love him

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Speaker 1: more loathing, but he doesn't mince his words, does he look.

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Speaker 3: He has a delightful attribute for a politician, and an

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Speaker 3: unusual one, and that is he generally tells you what

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Speaker 3: he actually thinks. It gets him in a bit of

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Speaker 3: strife at times, but he generally is telling you exactly

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Speaker 3: what he thinks. He does not spin if you like.

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Speaker 3: He tells you what he really wants to tell you,

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Speaker 3: and that makes him very fascinating to interview. But I

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Speaker 3: think it's that part of his success as a politician.

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Speaker 3: I think voters really appreciate that about him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Chris Kenny.

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Speaker 1: Always good to catch up with you, and good to

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Speaker 1: catch up with you on my show this morning, mate.

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Speaker 2: What time is the Dooko airing tonight?

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Speaker 3: Eight o'clock Sydney time, So I've got to catch up

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Speaker 3: without my daylight savings? Does that make it? Does that

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Speaker 3: make it seven o'clock in the in the territory?

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Speaker 2: I think it makes it six thirty. I should know that.

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Speaker 3: Get yep, six thirty. That's right, it'll be It'll be

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Speaker 3: seven point thirty in South Australia, it'll be six thirty

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Speaker 3: in the territory.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful stuff. Well, I'm sure that plenty of our listeners

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Speaker 1: are going to be very keen to watch that tonight.

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Speaker 1: Chris Kenny. Lovely to talk to you, and and we'll

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Speaker 1: be keeping an eye on that documentary.

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Speaker 3: Great stuff, Katie. Thanks for having me. I'll speak to

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Speaker 3: you on my show next week.

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Speaker 2: Sounds good, sounds like a plan. Good on you, Chris.

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Speaker 2: Thank you