1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: How well do you know yourself? Pretty well, you'd think GIFN. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: And you spend all day every day together, but how 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: much of that time is quality time? And how much 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: of it is swallowed up by distraction? As a practicing Muslim, 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: Susan Carland has been praying five times a day every 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: day for decades now. And when you are as busy 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: as Susan, who is an academic, an author, and a 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: TV presenter, her prayer times are often the only peaceful, 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: reflective moments of her day. So how has dedicating time 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: every single day to this powerful ritual improved Susan's ability 11 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: to focus, bring her a sense of inner peace, and 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: helped her get to know herself even better. My name 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: is doctor amanthe Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist the founder 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how I 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: work a show about how to help you do your 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: best work. On today's quick Win episode, we go back 17 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: to an interview from the past and I pick out 18 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: a quick win that you can apply today. In today's show, 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: I speak with Susan Carland about the power of a 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: daily ritual. Do you have a daily or weekly ritual 21 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: that has made a really big positive improvement to your 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: life over the last few years. 23 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do have one, and I recognize that this 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 2: is one that maybe a lot of people can't relate. 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: But you're interviewing me, so you get my answers, and 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, obviously people can't see me, so 27 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 2: they might not be able to tell I'm Muslim. I'm 28 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 2: a practicing Muslim, and so as a Muslim, I pray 29 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: five times a day and it's a ritualistic prayer. And 30 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: the reason I think this has been really good for 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: me in terms of changing my life for the better, 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 2: I think there's a few reasons. And I say this 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: knowing you know, organized religion is not particularly popular at 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: the moment, so I get that. But from my experience, 35 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: the first thing is praying five times a day. It's 36 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: a real discipline. And you know, from anything we do 37 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: that takes discipline, exercise, committing to writing for thirty minutes 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: a day, whatever, the benefit in having that discipline of 39 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: doing something even when you don't really particularly feel like it, 40 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: there's so much benefit in that. So there's a benefit 41 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 2: in you know, you know, often I've got to get 42 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: up early before I want you to do the first prayer, 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: and that's hard, and that's good. It's good to do 44 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 2: the hard thing you don't want to do as a 45 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: form of discipline. So there's that. But I also think, 46 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: you know, in a time of I suppose main character energy, 47 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 2: everything's about the individual and hedonism. It's an important reminder 48 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: for me of it's very clarifying in terms of my 49 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: place in the universe and that I'm not the main 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: character of everything. And I think for the final reason, 51 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: it's very much like checking a map five times a day. 52 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: I'm looking at my map and saying, am I being 53 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: the kind of person that I want to be? Am 54 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: I going in the direction that I want to go? 55 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: So it's it's a very important spiritual discipline that I 56 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 2: feel like I need in my life. I suppose the 57 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: same way people talk about meditating or just going to 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: the gym, you know, it's this is their discipline and 59 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: it has all these knock on effects. 60 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: This one really is that for me, I'm curious about 61 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: the fact that it's five times a day, why it's 62 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: five times a day, and also at what points in 63 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: the day is that happening? Can you tell me more 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: about that? 65 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: So they're kind of windows of time based on where 66 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: the sun is, so it's not as in a prayer 67 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: to the sun, but it's just based on that is 68 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: how the time is calculated. The first one is before sunrise, 69 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 2: so that's why you know in summer we're getting up 70 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: really early, like it could be like four thirty, we're 71 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: getting up to do it. Then the next one is 72 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: around midday, the third one is around mid afternoon, the 73 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: fourth one is at sort of at dusk, and the 74 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: last one's at night. But they're windows of time, so 75 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: it's not like right on the dot at twelve oh three, 76 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: drop everything and pray immediately. There's you know, you've got 77 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: a couple of hours to do it in and so 78 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: and for that reason, it means because Muslims can pray 79 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: anywhere that's clean. I've prayed in a lot of funny 80 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: places in the world. I've prayed in movie theaters, I've 81 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: prayed at the MCG, I've prayed in parks, car parks, 82 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: the footpath. And again, it's about that kind of reconfiguring 83 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: of ourselves, about going okay, no matter what else is 84 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: going on in my life, what is actually most important, 85 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 2: you know, reminding myself it's very easy to get caught 86 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: up in the craziness of life and also the craziness 87 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 2: of myself and just to bring myself back to focus 88 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 2: and purpose and clarity. 89 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: So what does that period of time look like when 90 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: you're in prayer. 91 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's actually very it's a very physical thing. 92 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: So it's for Muslims we kind of believe that it's 93 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 2: our heart, mind, and body. You're all at prayer or 94 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: all in this act of worship, I guess. So if 95 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: you've ever seen a Muslim pray, you know there's standing, 96 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: there's bowing and prostrating. There are these formal ritual acts 97 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 2: that these motions that we go through that, like I said, 98 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: we feel like our whole set elves, every part of 99 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: ourselves is engaged in this act. It's not just a 100 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: mental activity. Every part of ourselves is reminding ourselves who 101 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: we are and where we're. 102 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: Going, and what's going on in your mind in terms 103 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: of the thoughts that you're thinking. 104 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. And it's so there are 105 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: ritualistic things that we say, and then there are also 106 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: extra parts where we can say whatever we want. And 107 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: it's really interesting. You know, five times a day when 108 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 2: we are praying, and the Muslims all over the world, 109 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: we all pray exactly the same in the same language. 110 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: We all pray in Arabic. So I could join a prayer, 111 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 2: a congregational prayer right now in Nigeria, Turkey, Malaysia, and 112 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: we're all praying exactly the same way, kind of the 113 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: way Catholics used to pray, all in Latin, I think. 114 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: And so we're following this prescription of that we believe, 115 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: you know, has been practiced this way for hundreds, you know, 116 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: more than a thousand years, that Muslims have always been 117 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 2: praying like this. But we are also human beings, and 118 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: so there will be times when I'm incredibly focused in 119 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: that prayer and incredible, it's incredibly powerful and moving and 120 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: emotional and peaceful and transcendent. And then there are other 121 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: times where I can just feel my attention going in 122 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 2: and out and like I'm praying but half my mind 123 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: and I've got to get back ready for that meeting, 124 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: and I've got to do this and whatever. That's the 125 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: human condition, you know. And so again, similar to what 126 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: I hear people say about meditation, you will have that 127 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: monkey mind. Your mind is like a puppy, and if 128 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: you're if you're harsh with that puppy, you wouldn't talle 129 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: it off and yell at it. You'd be like, Okay, 130 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: come on, retrain and come back, come back. I acknowledge 131 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: what's going on. Okay, I'm not focusing. Bring my mind 132 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: back to what I'm doing. And obviously from Wilsons, we 133 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: believe who we're talking to. 134 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: That is that is absolutely fascinating. How does that work though, 135 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: Like when I mean you're a super busy person, Like, 136 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: in my mind, how how are you finding the time 137 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: to do this, particularly for the ones that fall in 138 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: the middle of the day as opposed to it the 139 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: tail ends of the day. 140 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean the first thing to know, it's 141 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: not like prayer has to go for two hours, Like 142 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: if you want to, it could take a couple of minutes. 143 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: So it's not like a massive imposition. But if anything, 144 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 2: I think the point you make about being super busy 145 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: for me makes it even more important. I know for 146 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: myself when I'm in those incredibly busy periods of work 147 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: where everything stressful and too much and like it just 148 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: feels like a cyclone, it gives me these five moments 149 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: of stillness and again perspective like, Okay, yeah, works busy 150 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: and whatever, but I'm a lot more than my job. 151 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: You know, my identity is not my job. This is 152 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: what I do when I pray. That's who I am, 153 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: you know, and that important distinction. But like I said, 154 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: it does only have to take a couple of minutes. 155 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: You can pray for longer if you want. But it's 156 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: not like I have to go. Guys, I'm gonna have 157 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: to step out for two hours. Good luck at work 158 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: without me, you know, a Muslim surgeon. Sorry, I'm out 159 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: of the operation. I hope the patient survives. Like you know, 160 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: it should work and be manageable in your life as well. 161 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this little quick win episode today. 162 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: If you would like to listen to the full interview, 163 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: you can find a link to that in the show notes. 164 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 165 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that 166 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me 167 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 2: work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving. 168 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: Through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for 169 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: that at howiwork dot com. That's how I work dot Co. 170 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing part of your day with me 171 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for 172 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: more tips on how to work better, connect with me 173 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just 174 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on 175 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the 176 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able 177 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: to work and live on this beautiful land and I 178 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: want to pay my respects to elders, past, present and emerging. 179 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventium and hosted by 180 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: me Amantha Imba, and a big thank you to Martin 181 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: Imba who did the audio mix and makes everything sound 182 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: better than it would have otherwise.