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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: the sixteenth of August. I'm Zara Seidler.

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Speaker 3: I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 2: Almost two years ago, back when Sam and I had

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Speaker 2: just quit our full time jobs to do the dally

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Speaker 2: Os full time, we were approached by a little known

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Speaker 2: publishing company called Penguin who asked if we wanted to

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Speaker 2: write a book.

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Speaker 3: Fast forward two years and we now are super excited

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Speaker 3: to be sharing a book, a real life book with

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Speaker 3: the world. It's called No Silly Questions And what we

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Speaker 3: thought we'd do today on the podcast is get our editor,

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Speaker 3: Billy fitz Simons to come and interview us.

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Speaker 4: How do you go with those deadlines?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, who put you up to this? I reckon we

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Speaker 3: probably missed twelve deadlines.

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Speaker 2: That whole conversation is coming up in the Deep Dive,

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Speaker 2: and there's a link in the show notes if you

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Speaker 2: want to purchase the book on pre sale. But first, Sam,

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Speaker 2: what happened last night in the semi finals of the

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Speaker 2: Women's World.

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Speaker 3: Cup, another absolutely cracking game. Spain is the first team

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Speaker 3: through to the final of the FIFA Women's World Cup

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Speaker 3: after a very dramatic win over Sweden in Auckland with

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Speaker 3: scores locked at Neil Neil, three late goals in the

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Speaker 3: game saw the Spaniards win two one. They now play

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Speaker 3: either Australia or England, who of course face off tonight

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Speaker 3: at Stadium Australia in Sydney.

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Speaker 2: The Prime Minister we'll meet with state and territory leaders

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Speaker 2: in Brisbane for today's National Cabinet. The agenda is set

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Speaker 2: to include housing reform as well as the idea for

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Speaker 2: a public holiday if the Matildas win the World Cup.

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump has been criminally indicted for the fourth time.

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Speaker 3: This time the charges relate to alleged efforts to overturn

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty election in the US state of Georgia.

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Speaker 3: Trump dismissed the indictment, posting on his platform, truth social

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Speaker 3: that prosecutors were out to get him.

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Speaker 2: And the good news. Over one hundred thousand free period

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Speaker 2: product packs have been handed out to students at Queensland

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Speaker 2: Public schools. It comes after the first period product vending

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Speaker 2: machines were installed at schools last year. Each pack contains

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Speaker 2: six tampons and two pads.

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Speaker 5: I actually don't know how to start this because but.

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Speaker 2: Do I welcome you to you welcome to the Daily?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 5: Do I welcome you to your own podcast?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Go?

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Speaker 2: You're finmer politicians?

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Speaker 3: But that.

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Speaker 4: Sam and Zara?

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Speaker 5: Hello, how the tables have turned now? As in both

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Speaker 5: know I usually come on this podcast to interview politicians

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Speaker 5: and I like to be quite direct, but you two

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Speaker 5: are my bosses, so I thought i'll start off soft.

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Speaker 5: At what point did you both think you were famous

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Speaker 5: enough to write a book?

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Speaker 2: That is the best question, because, okay, Shemaya overwriting philosophy

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Speaker 2: has always been if you're in your twenties and you

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Speaker 2: haven't done something remarkable, you should not be writing a book.

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Speaker 2: You know, like people write biographies or autobiographies about being

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Speaker 2: in their twenties. And I feel so strongly that you

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Speaker 2: haven't lived enough of your life to write a.

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Speaker 3: Book, So why do the Age of twenty six?

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Speaker 2: Because it's not about ourselves, it is about the world

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Speaker 2: around us, and we think that hopefully it's a valuable

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Speaker 2: contribution to understanding the world from the way we see it,

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Speaker 2: which is as a young person trying to figure their

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Speaker 2: place out.

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Speaker 3: I think we're famous enough to write a book.

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Speaker 2: Oh do you hello to our one listener done that?

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Speaker 5: So you kind of touched on it their Zara, But

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Speaker 5: can you explain what is this book about?

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Speaker 3: So no silly questions? Is the starter guide to reading

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Speaker 3: the news? So we wanted to what does that mean?

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Speaker 3: So we wanted to put together a book that collated

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Speaker 3: all the infant in one place. That would mean that

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Speaker 3: whatever came across the new cycle that day, you had

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Speaker 3: some of the key definitions, some of the key ideas

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Speaker 3: that would make the news make sense. And we try

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Speaker 3: and do that through our podcasts and through our posts,

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Speaker 3: but it's not really gathered in one spot. And the

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Speaker 3: fact that you can pick it up and read a

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Speaker 3: chapter on the economy, chapter on climate, chapter on the

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Speaker 3: world is hopefully pretty handy.

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Speaker 2: And I think from my point of view, I could

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Speaker 2: see you taking a breath to speak there, But I'll

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Speaker 2: just keep speaking. I think that we always get told,

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Speaker 2: and I mean we've experienced it ourselves, that these are

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Speaker 2: the kinds of things that we wish we would have

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Speaker 2: learned at school. Like you kind of graduate from school

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Speaker 2: and you're told to vote in an election, but you

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Speaker 2: never actually taught how you know, how the logistics work,

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Speaker 2: how our voting system works. And so I think that

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Speaker 2: this is the foundation for which to kind of go

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Speaker 2: through the world. It's how our economy works, how our

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Speaker 2: political system works, and then with all of that, hopefully

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Speaker 2: you're a better citizen but also a better news reader.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people have asked if it's a compilation

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Speaker 5: of posts from the Daily OS instagram.

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Speaker 3: Is it. No, it's not.

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Speaker 2: Been far easier than I would have done.

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Speaker 3: That would have been a much smoother writing process if

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Speaker 3: that was the case. No, it's not. And we kind

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Speaker 3: of have tied in certain parts of posts that we've written,

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Speaker 3: and we've reflected on, you know, the ten biggest moments

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Speaker 3: in the last twenty years, and some of that came

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Speaker 3: from posts like the fall of Cabul, and we lent

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Speaker 3: on the posts to write that little bit. But no,

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Speaker 3: it's definitely not a post. We also really tried to

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Speaker 3: make this book something that wouldn't go straight out of date,

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Speaker 3: and that's really hard, like even saying something like the

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Speaker 3: Taliban is in power in Afghanistan that might not be

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Speaker 3: relevant in a couple of months time, So we need

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Speaker 3: to make sure that we wrote it in such a

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Speaker 3: way that it wasn't And of course our posts are

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Speaker 3: the news you need to know.

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Speaker 5: Right then, when you first got approached for this book,

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Speaker 5: it was August twenty twenty one and you had two employees.

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Speaker 5: There's now sixteen of us, so many you've written this

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Speaker 5: at the same time as growing a business. You also

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Speaker 5: do a daily podcast. I've worked with you guys for

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Speaker 5: two years.

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Speaker 4: You were so busy. How did you get this book done?

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think it was a lot

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Speaker 2: harder than we would have anticipated. I think Sam and

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Speaker 2: I always reflect on the fact that it was really

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Speaker 2: flattering to be asked to write a book, and that

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Speaker 2: I don't think we like properly comprehended how hard it is.

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Speaker 5: Are you saying that at the start it was an

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Speaker 5: ego thing?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely talking to two people very healthy egos, and it's

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Speaker 2: good to know.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that it was you don't say no,

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Speaker 6: You don't say no to being offered about.

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Speaker 2: But in retrospect, being young, first time founders trying to navigate,

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Speaker 2: you know, the everyday news cycle and then trying to

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Speaker 2: write a book on top it was really hard.

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Speaker 4: And being first time managers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of felt like we had a school assignment.

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Speaker 3: Due being back at you never quite finished, and so

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Speaker 3: when we were trying to chill on a Sunday, you

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Speaker 3: always had this sneaking feeling that you should be doing

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Speaker 3: some writing for the book.

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Speaker 4: How do you go with those deadlines?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So if you scroll back, put you up to this.

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Speaker 6: If you scroll back on not only TDA but also

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Speaker 6: my personal instagram, you can see it says released March

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty three, So we're now it's August twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 6: It's released in September. I reckon we probably missed twelve deadlines.

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Speaker 2: I think at one point we just stopped replying in

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Speaker 2: the hope that our editors wouldn't follow us up. If

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Speaker 2: we don't respond to them, they'll forget about us, and

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Speaker 2: then we will have more time to write it.

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Speaker 5: And thank god they didn't forget about you, and we

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Speaker 5: now have the pro exactly.

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Speaker 2: But sorry to our Penguin editors for ghosting you on

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Speaker 2: many an occasion.

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Speaker 5: Now, I don't know if everyone would know this, but

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Speaker 5: you two work in extremely different ways. Sam, you're such

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Speaker 5: a big picture thinker and Zara you're focused on the

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Speaker 5: I have a small picture think You're focused on the

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Speaker 5: really small details. Did that ever make it hard to

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Speaker 5: write this book together?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 3: I think something that gets left behind when you think

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Speaker 3: about big picture thinkers is that because we think so

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Speaker 3: big and so wide, I literally can sit down at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of a day and just start writing and

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Speaker 3: at the end of it I never want to see

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Speaker 3: it ever again. It's really fun for me.

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Speaker 2: I picked it up off the back of that, had

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Speaker 2: to do a bit of fact checking, a little bit,

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Speaker 2: A few edits here are there.

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Speaker 3: But that's what makes us, I think, so good together.

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Speaker 3: And it's not only the book that we've been able

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Speaker 3: to use our different strengths together, but in every part

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Speaker 3: of the business, in the way that we evaluate what

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Speaker 3: to do next, or who to hire, all of those

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Speaker 3: kind of things. We literally are perfect.

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Speaker 4: Opposites, complete opposite and.

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Speaker 3: That's our superpower, I think. And if we were the same.

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Speaker 3: If we were two very detail oriented types of workers

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Speaker 3: or two big picture thinkers, it wouldn't work. But it does.

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Speaker 5: I could not agree more. I think what's so interesting

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Speaker 5: hearing you two talk about your partnership is that, from

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Speaker 5: my perspective, I've never met two people who are such

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Speaker 5: opposites but works so well together. And having seen you

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Speaker 5: to write this book for the past two years, you're

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Speaker 5: genuinely unbreakable in terms of your relationship.

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Speaker 4: They're not together.

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Speaker 2: Most frequently asked questions, yes, you've had it here first, finally.

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Speaker 5: Put now, this is the first time the Daily os

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Speaker 5: has asked the audience to buy something that we've actually made.

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Speaker 4: Are you nervous about that?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Very I think it's a lot easier to flog

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Speaker 2: someone else's products. I think there is an element of,

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Speaker 2: I guess, vulnerability to putting out something that you've worked

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Speaker 2: on to your audience and saying, hey, we think this

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Speaker 2: is worth you spending money to actually buy this. And

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Speaker 2: I think that oftentimes you can feel detached from whatever

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Speaker 2: product is out there because it's not your own. But

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Speaker 2: when it has your name in it and it has

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Speaker 2: those words there, it is nerve racking. But I think

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Speaker 2: that we've got an amazing audience who hope over the

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Speaker 2: last however many years have supported us through thick and Thin,

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Speaker 2: through Taylor Swift, tickets and everything of that nature. So

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Speaker 2: I think now hopefully they see the value in what

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Speaker 2: we provide and are willing to kind of buy that

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Speaker 2: first product.

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Speaker 3: But it also for us is about getting the name

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Speaker 3: out there. And you know, if you see it on

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Speaker 3: the bookshelf, you might not know about the Daily Ods,

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Speaker 3: but we're catching you and catching your eye with a big,

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Speaker 3: bright cover, and you might ask questions about it. You

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Speaker 3: might look us up on Instagram or listen to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: So there's a lot more value to it, I think.

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Speaker 3: But gosh, we hope some people buy it.

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Speaker 5: Let's say this book does really well and a lot

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Speaker 5: of people do buy it. Are you going to be

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Speaker 5: asking the audience to buy more things that you make interesting?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 3: I think it's all going to depend on how aggressively

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Speaker 3: we want to pursue that as the way to build

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Speaker 3: a sustainable media business.

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Speaker 2: I think the first step is just explaining how we

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Speaker 2: make money currently.

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Speaker 3: So at the moment, we're making money through part the ships,

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Speaker 3: through advertising, advertising and working with companies that want exposure

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Speaker 3: to our audience like we're do in the mid roll

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Speaker 3: on the podcast and all that kind of stuff. This

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Speaker 3: is now the next step into making our own stuff.

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Speaker 3: And there's some amazing examples out there of businesses that

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Speaker 3: have been born on socials and born on podcasts and

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Speaker 3: then made stuff and sold it and done really well.

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Speaker 3: And the one that we always talk about is Inspired Unemployed,

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Speaker 3: who are just some of the funniest people in Australia.

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Speaker 3: They have released a beer and made heaps of money

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Speaker 3: through that and that allows their business to grow. So

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Speaker 3: there's lots of different ways to build businesses.

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Speaker 2: I think we're still at the beginning of the journey though.

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Speaker 2: I think that we want to keep this free for

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Speaker 2: as long as possible and we've just got to find

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Speaker 2: ways to do that.

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Speaker 4: Are you guys pocketing this money? Are you guys going

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Speaker 4: to be really rich after this book comes out?

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Speaker 2: How did you know what gave it away?

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Speaker 3: We actually do get asked this like in different context

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Speaker 3: a lot, like if we do speaking or all that

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: But the answer is always the same. No, every cent

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Speaker 2: that is made from the book will be going back

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Speaker 2: into the business, same as speaking gigs that we have separately,

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Speaker 2: we are fully invested in building this business up, and

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Speaker 2: that means that if we have to take time away

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Speaker 2: from the business to focus on book stuff, there should

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Speaker 2: be some sort of value to that and to us,

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Speaker 2: that is that financial value that then flows back into

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Speaker 2: the business.

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of a way to view the metrics

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Speaker 3: of success for us in terms of this book, Like

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Speaker 3: I'd love to be able to hire a couple more

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Speaker 3: journalists because we've done well with the book. That's one

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Speaker 3: way to view why we're doing this.

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Speaker 5: Just while we're talking about the growth of the business,

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Speaker 5: what's your plan for the Daily Os this time next year?

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Speaker 4: Where do you want us to be?

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Speaker 2: Sam Elevator pitch.

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Speaker 3: A totally sustainable news business serving as many Australians as

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Speaker 3: possible in ways that make it easy for them to

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Speaker 3: read the news.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'd agree with that. I'd just explain that when

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Speaker 2: we say fully sustainable, we have raised money from investors twice.

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Speaker 2: Now that gave us the financial freedom for Sam and

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Speaker 2: I first to quit our job and then to kind

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Speaker 2: of expand and hire a lot of people. And so

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Speaker 2: what we mean by that is we don't want to

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Speaker 2: have to go back to investors. We want the company

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Speaker 2: to be self sustaining. We want the journalism to be

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Speaker 2: self sustaining. We want to be able to grow in

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Speaker 2: a really strong and sustained way so that we don't

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Speaker 2: have to rely on other people. That this journalism funds itself.

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Speaker 2: And we're well on our way to getting there.

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Speaker 3: And the only other thing I would add to that

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Speaker 3: is that I would want us to be even more

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Speaker 3: trusted as a source of news than we are now.

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Speaker 3: That's like a huge focus for us. So yeah, growth

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Speaker 3: is also incredibly important, and sustainability.

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Speaker 2: But telling the stories of young nazzies.

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Speaker 4: Exactly talking about trust.

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Speaker 5: Sam once on Triple Jay, I heard you'd be called

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Speaker 5: the young Rupert Murdoch.

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Speaker 4: Is that what you aspire to?

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Speaker 3: I prefer the young Logan Roy And except without the

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Speaker 3: I was going to spoil it. No, don't worry. No,

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Speaker 3: it's not at all. And I think that why.

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Speaker 2: As no one asked me if I'm the young Rupert Murdock.

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Speaker 3: Hey, come on, your name's first, let me have the

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Speaker 3: Rupert Murdock comparisons.

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Speaker 5: Written by Zara Seidler and Sam Kozlowski about there.

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Speaker 3: Is no way.

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Speaker 2: Told me that my name would be going first.

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Speaker 3: Why.

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Speaker 2: I was like, we've had years of just sexism, like

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Speaker 2: pulling us behind. My name is going first the end.

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Speaker 2: And when I say a fight, I don't think he

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Speaker 2: said anything. He was like, okay, sure.

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Speaker 3: Sam, Because part of being a big picture thinker is

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Speaker 3: also being a people pleaser. When so when Zara says

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Speaker 3: she wants her name first on the cover, it would

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Speaker 3: be my pleasure for her name to go. But I

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Speaker 3: think it's a little bit of a complexity of having

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Speaker 3: a name that starts with Z and in high school,

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Speaker 3: I get it. I hear stuff.

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Speaker 4: So it sounds like there's a bit of tension.

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Speaker 5: How is your relationship after writing this book?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, your mother and I have never been happier.

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Speaker 4: Are we just going to end it there?

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Speaker 3: Guy? You know what? No, hang, I'll I'll be serious

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Speaker 3: with this. It was a labor of love and I

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Speaker 3: think what we learnt through it is that even in

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Speaker 3: the really really challenging shit, we have each other's backs.

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Speaker 3: And I think the reason why people don't try and

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Speaker 3: build a business and write a book at the same

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Speaker 3: time is because it's nearly impossible. And so the fact

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Speaker 3: that we've done that actually means that other things that

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Speaker 3: we want to try that we also think are nearly impossible.

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Speaker 3: I reckon we probably.

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Speaker 2: Can do stunning note to end on, except I just

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Speaker 2: add that I think the only reason we could do

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Speaker 2: it is because of our team. I mean, Billy, you're

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Speaker 2: obviously sitting in the room. You helped us with this book.

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Speaker 2: You've also helped us grow this business, make this business,

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Speaker 2: as have the rest of the team members. And I

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Speaker 2: just think like we would be nowhere without the team.

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Speaker 2: And so while you know it says our names on it,

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Speaker 2: it's absolutely the product of teamwork and we would not

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Speaker 2: be anywhere near there without the team.

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Speaker 5: Sam and Zara, thank you so much for joining me

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Speaker 5: on your own podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on our own pods an absolute version.

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Speaker 3: Let's discuss that bonus you were after.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode. If it's made you

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Speaker 2: feel compelled to buy our book, we would so love

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Speaker 2: your support. You can purchase it via the link in

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Speaker 2: our show notes. So it's on presale currently, which means

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Speaker 2: it is set to arrive in the first week of September.

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Speaker 2: We hope you love it, and thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: your support.