Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast past week that light. Welcome TV
Speaker 1: Reload listeners. As you may know, my name is Benjamin
Speaker 1: Norris and this is your podcast to get all the
Speaker 1: inside goss on the popular TV shows you may be
Speaker 1: watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are
Speaker 1: a major part of our home entertainment, and yet very
Speaker 1: little is known about how our favorite shows get made.
Speaker 1: So each episode, I've been finding guests that want to
Speaker 1: dive just that little bit deeper into the shows they're
Speaker 1: currently making, so that you can hear all their exclusive
Speaker 1: stories and gain access to the biggest names in Australian television.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for downloading or subscribing to
Speaker 1: this podcast however you've found me. I love hearing your feedback,
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Speaker 1: on your chosen podcast platform. On today's podcast, I have
Speaker 1: Australian reality TV Royalty. It's Luke Toki. He's here to
Speaker 1: talk about his time on The Traders, which has been
Speaker 1: a brilliant second series for Network ten. I am doing
Speaker 1: this as a bonus episode as I already had Annabelle
Speaker 1: on earlier, but I simply couldn't miss talking to Luke
Speaker 1: as I'm a bit of a superfan. Luke first appeared
Speaker 1: on Australian Survivor in twenty seventeen and won over the
Speaker 1: general public like no other contestant before him. An impressive
Speaker 1: fact about his first appearance on television. He came third
Speaker 1: on that season of Survivor and there was a GoFundMe
Speaker 1: page which was set up by the general public which
Speaker 1: raised over a half a million dollars prize money that
Speaker 1: he narrowly missed out on the show, something that I
Speaker 1: don't really think has ever happened around the world or
Speaker 1: ever since. He reappeared on Australian Survivor in twenty nineteen
Speaker 1: as a champion champions versus contenders. I think that series
Speaker 1: was but his time on that show was also cut
Speaker 1: short when it came to Pia Miranda, who was smart
Speaker 1: enough to realize that Luke going into that final tribal
Speaker 1: council would be way too hot to beat. He went
Speaker 1: on to win Big Brother Vip in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: something that has been completely omitted from his resume on
Speaker 1: The Traders this year, And you better believe I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask him a little bit about that today. The
Speaker 1: Traders this season has totally leveled up and watching these
Speaker 1: contestants work as a team to uncover who is a
Speaker 1: Trader and who is a faithful he's simply delicious television.
Speaker 1: I will ask Luke about his ability to read a room,
Speaker 1: and we will talk about the possibility of having a
Speaker 1: career as a police investigator. We will unpack the first
Speaker 1: few weeks, then the twists and turns that it came with,
Speaker 1: where you will find out how he came to the
Speaker 1: conclusion that Ash, Sam and Blake were Traders. Luke will
Speaker 1: talk about his relationship with Annabelle and Sam, and we
Speaker 1: will also get a few names of previous contestants that
Speaker 1: are no longer on the Christmas List. Plus, we will
Speaker 1: get plenty of exclusives from behind the scenes of The
Speaker 1: Traders season two, which continues Sunday night at seven thirty
Speaker 1: on Network ten and you can now catch up on Tenplate. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's bring Luke into the podcast. I will try not
Speaker 1: to be too much of a fangirl and I hope
Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed this very insightful look at The Traders
Speaker 1: season two. Hi, Luke, Welcome, to TV reload. You know
Speaker 1: what's really funny is that I've nearly had you on
Speaker 1: this podcast three times before this, so this is great
Speaker 1: to finally chat to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know why I've missed you so many times,
Speaker 2: but it's good to finally Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, shoot it, I have to disclose I was
Speaker 1: talking about you. I'd been doing some of these exit
Speaker 1: interviews for the Traders, and I've been saying to everyone,
Speaker 1: why didn't you get rid of Luke asap?
Speaker 2: Nah? But it's you can't trust me. But the thing is,
Speaker 2: I'm too much fun to be around, so you can
Speaker 2: always get me at a later stage. And you know what,
Speaker 2: as well, is I'm actually a good friend in these games.
Speaker 2: If you find that every single show, I actually will
Speaker 2: protect my friends to the death. As much as I'm
Speaker 2: too scary to be around, it's better for you to
Speaker 2: have me on my team than to be against me.
Speaker 1: That's the reason why I would have gotten rid of
Speaker 1: you straight away. I think the longer you were in
Speaker 1: there in any game, I'd be like, we need to
Speaker 1: get rid of him straight away because he will develop
Speaker 1: better friendships than me, and I will love him and
Speaker 1: I'll probably self a victim.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so funny. It seems to me
Speaker 2: like that way, you know they do say so it's
Speaker 2: like socially, you can't get along with everyone, and you're
Speaker 2: going to find those little cracks and people that dislike
Speaker 2: each other. But yeah, and I do exploit them as
Speaker 2: much as possible because if it benefits my game. The
Speaker 2: ultimate goal is to win, right, come home without two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand, that big briefcase full of bars,
Speaker 2: and as you're right, if you give me enough time
Speaker 2: to get my claws into the game, good luck trying
Speaker 2: to get me out.
Speaker 1: I know it drives me wild on reality shows because
Speaker 1: I can always pick the person that's you. Even when
Speaker 1: they brought Big Brother back, I was like, why would
Speaker 1: they leave Reggie in there at all? Like I said,
Speaker 1: I know, she's a sweet, lovely fish and chip shop lady,
Speaker 1: but get rid of her asap because the longer she's
Speaker 1: in here, the less chance you're ever going to get
Speaker 1: to get.
Speaker 2: Rid of her. Exactly. It really became with that situation
Speaker 2: with reg It was like you can just see that
Speaker 2: people just wanted her to win. I think that, you know,
Speaker 2: these shows, you do fine. Sometimes these seasons. There's people
Speaker 2: in there that completely forget that they are in there
Speaker 2: to win for themselves and not for the person that
Speaker 2: potentially sometimes is manipulating them even you know, because they
Speaker 2: just see what they see on face value. But there
Speaker 2: might be one person that's playing a game and the
Speaker 2: others just purely relying on their emotions and how they feel.
Speaker 2: Where the best players they have no emotion.
Speaker 1: I'm ruthless because, like I will work out who I
Speaker 1: can't beat, who I like, and who I don't like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's like chess, right, Some people play the
Speaker 2: game like chess, and each other person or character in
Speaker 2: the game is a chess piece. That's how I play,
Speaker 2: and we move around. Don't get me wrong. You do
Speaker 2: create bonds and you do create friendships, but that has
Speaker 2: to come second if you are have any choice or
Speaker 2: any chance of wanting to actually win two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars. And we've seen last year on The
Speaker 2: Traders just how ruthless, how the emotional dammy that you
Speaker 2: can put on someone will always come second to winning.
Speaker 2: And that's what the TV show wants, So you give them,
Speaker 2: give the fans what.
Speaker 1: I have a theory that you know, when you're in
Speaker 1: a show. Maybe this works more for Survivor than it
Speaker 1: does for the Traders. But do you feel like, if
Speaker 1: you're a noisy, entertaining player, just go hard with that
Speaker 1: because you will somehow be protected. Maybe not my producers,
Speaker 1: because that's probably not the right way to look at it.
Speaker 1: But you know, do you feel like by being an
Speaker 1: outrageous player, you get more screen time and they can't
Speaker 1: afford to lose you.
Speaker 2: Like, definitely more screen time, But I don't think the
Speaker 2: afford to lose you situation. I think it's just sometimes
Speaker 2: it works out and sometimes it doesn't. I feel like
Speaker 2: if I got voted out my first season Survivor, as
Speaker 2: I said, and in the first three or four episodes,
Speaker 2: I would have just been the loud mouth, goofy guy
Speaker 2: that didn't know how to play the game. But over time,
Speaker 2: because you last long and you go further than they
Speaker 2: can actually build off your character and your personality and
Speaker 2: get a bit of depth to you. But someone like
Speaker 2: Angelica Elias, you know, paid and all these players that
Speaker 2: you've only just first seen firsthand, we really never got
Speaker 2: to witness anything out of them. You never got to
Speaker 2: see the character development or the real person underneath, and
Speaker 2: how strategic some of those guys will be. You just
Speaker 2: got to see that they are erratic when their name
Speaker 2: got thrown out and next minute they're gone. For instance
Speaker 2: Paid and if he didn't get murdered and he stuck
Speaker 2: with me for some longer time, he could have been
Speaker 2: the Annabelle. But you just didn't get that showing. And
Speaker 2: you know, for instance, with me, everyone already knows from
Speaker 2: watching my last show, so there's no character development really
Speaker 2: needed with me already come with like the resume, would
Speaker 2: you say? You know, but like in saying that, that's
Speaker 2: where you've got to have a shot. And that's where
Speaker 2: the craziness comes into, because it's sometimes better to have
Speaker 2: a crazy three or four episodes and get voted out,
Speaker 2: to sit down with the family and watch it every
Speaker 2: night for three or four episodes and you're not even
Speaker 2: in the show and then you're eliminated. So and that's why,
Speaker 2: that's why sometimes my timing can be off, because I
Speaker 2: know that with this show, Me and Animal, like throwing
Speaker 2: shade to Sam and Blake, it was like, yeah, maybe, say,
Speaker 2: for instance, if I didn't protect Animal, I might have
Speaker 2: gone a bit further, But you know what if they
Speaker 2: recruited me that night because they knew there was no
Speaker 2: other way. I get another episode in the game, and
Speaker 2: I've also declared who they are, and for instance, I
Speaker 2: could have survived the next one, and then I go
Speaker 2: on to win, and everyone's going to be like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, what an absolute crazy game. So you kind
Speaker 2: of you look at the as you said, like you're
Speaker 2: going to go all in sometimes and I hope for
Speaker 2: the best and I think I will always And this
Speaker 2: is in real life and external in the games and stuff,
Speaker 2: is always have your buddies back, even if it costs
Speaker 2: you your game, because because everyone can relate to that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like you and your brother, or you
Speaker 2: and your sister, or some shit's happening to you and
Speaker 2: you want someone.
Speaker 3: To stick up for you, whether it be at school,
Speaker 3: whether it's whether it's on these shows, whether it's at work.
Speaker 3: There's bullies, there's there's people that will always gang up
Speaker 3: sometimes on the weakest, you know, and when that time comes,
Speaker 3: you wish you had that one friend that would go
Speaker 3: into war even they know they're going to get beaten
Speaker 3: up or they're going to get destroyed.
Speaker 2: It's like it's just a good human character. That what
Speaker 2: is it? Good winds over evil? You know, yeah, And
Speaker 2: it's something that I've always sucked by and I will
Speaker 2: always you know, good winds over evil eventually and it
Speaker 2: always does. And I watched Survivor right and people write
Speaker 2: down their own brother's names on blood versut water, or
Speaker 2: their own mother's names. And I look at that and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I could never do, you know, how like
Speaker 2: how awkward that would be for the rest of our relationship.
Speaker 2: Like We've just got like seventy years to lit and
Speaker 2: I'm going to sit there and listen to my brother
Speaker 2: or mother going, you voted me out, you asshole.
Speaker 1: The minute that you turn on that person, audiences will
Speaker 1: never give you the money. You may stay an extra episode,
Speaker 1: never win.
Speaker 2: So it's because we see him in real life breed
Speaker 2: putting yourself over obviously everyone is. It's not a trait
Speaker 2: that we all love, you know, because we see it
Speaker 2: throughout life in every aspect. It's always money and greed
Speaker 2: and power as a human trait as well, where you
Speaker 2: don't put yourself first, you put your friend first, you
Speaker 2: put your partner first, you put your kids first, and
Speaker 2: sometimes it works out and that favor gets repaid later
Speaker 2: on in life, you know, helping that old lady across
Speaker 2: the road, as I say, and then you go to
Speaker 2: a job interview and that old lady is your boss. Coma.
Speaker 1: You know, I think your elimination was a waste of
Speaker 1: your paycheck. Though, to be eliminated off Hamra He is
Speaker 1: the opposite of the perfect storm. It is the light
Speaker 1: shower we didn't deserve.
Speaker 2: Do you know what's even worse. I got dressed up
Speaker 2: hell nice that morning and I was waiting to go
Speaker 2: down to breakfast, and I was like, oh, well, it
Speaker 2: must be the last person in so I thought there
Speaker 2: was still that small chance they could have recruited me,
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until it got closer to the midday
Speaker 2: that's when I realized no longer.
Speaker 1: One of the things I was curious about is why
Speaker 1: did they omit you being the winner of Big Brother?
Speaker 1: Because that seemed like a really big part of your
Speaker 1: career and also a huge part of your resume. Did
Speaker 1: they talk to you about why that would not be
Speaker 1: mentioned Big Brother?
Speaker 2: I don't know if wether it just didn't view well
Speaker 2: or the ratings or many people have seen it, but
Speaker 2: that question never came up, So I never ever brought
Speaker 2: up that I had one big brother. So the fact is,
Speaker 2: as far as everyone knew, I was just the shit
Speaker 2: Survivor player that's lost twice.
Speaker 1: Did you do the research and watch the Traders version
Speaker 1: that had just happened season I think it was either
Speaker 1: the English one or the American one where they had
Speaker 1: two winners from Big Brother come back, And did you
Speaker 1: see that moment where one of the winners was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: they're lucky to have me here, they get to meet me,
Speaker 1: Like they had this really out of like it was
Speaker 1: just bonkers to see them talk about themselves like that.
Speaker 2: I do think my Big Brother background will help me
Speaker 2: in here.
Speaker 1: I can manipulate everyone.
Speaker 2: This is like my chance.
Speaker 1: To use their fandom of me to my advantage. So
Speaker 1: I'm kind of an icon. What did you think of
Speaker 1: that moment?
Speaker 2: Look, I think that people can get caught up in
Speaker 2: the storm of TV being known around the country, and
Speaker 2: even people say, oh, you meet Caitlin, Jenny, You've met
Speaker 2: like you know all these people, And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're like they're actually really nice and amazing people.
Speaker 4: But do you know who's more amazing? My friends in
Speaker 4: my life?
Speaker 2: That I've known for the last fifteen years because they
Speaker 2: have seen me come and go and be around do everything,
Speaker 2: and we sit down and we laugh and have the
Speaker 2: best time ever.
Speaker 4: And do you know what, whether they're known or not known,
Speaker 4: it does not matter.
Speaker 2: Like that's where you don't let yourself get swept up
Speaker 2: in these parties and events and people who know people.
Speaker 2: You treat people how you would like to be treated.
Speaker 2: And as much as Caitlyn Jenner's great, do you know what,
Speaker 2: I don't want to hang out with a seventy year
Speaker 2: old woman.
Speaker 4: I take my grandma out for lunch if I want
Speaker 4: to hang out with.
Speaker 2: A seven year old woman, you know, because it's not
Speaker 2: it doesn't interest me, I guess.
Speaker 1: I mean, you would have been asked to do a
Speaker 1: lot of these shows. I mean, how many shows have
Speaker 1: you been asked to do? Can you reveal anything else?
Speaker 4: Not?
Speaker 2: Really? I think The Traders was a perfect little one
Speaker 2: for me to come back to after The Big Brother.
Speaker 2: I was like kind of wanted to wrap it up,
Speaker 2: felt like, you know, I've done what I wanted to
Speaker 2: do and whatever, because I got the w but like
Speaker 2: you know, like someone that just can't give up their
Speaker 2: career like that footy player making that second run to
Speaker 2: get my fingers and or get my toes wet in
Speaker 2: Traders has been such good.
Speaker 4: And to be back with ten and to just like
Speaker 4: you know, just meet.
Speaker 2: Everyone, and also to get it right. I think I
Speaker 2: had a good run, like I yeah, like it could
Speaker 2: always be worse than it can always be better, you know,
Speaker 2: just the factors this game. I was actually able to
Speaker 2: talk the truth a bit, you know, I was able
Speaker 2: to sit there and say, like, it wasn't about me
Speaker 2: creating lies and stirring the pot and creating massive amount
Speaker 2: of drama. It was more me putting my gut to work,
Speaker 2: my intuition, my my social strategy, my skills, and you know,
Speaker 2: like I guess finding the murderer, finding the bad person.
Speaker 2: You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the Australian Federal
Speaker 2: Police had reached out to me and wanted me to
Speaker 2: be an undercover cop, or.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that hasn't happened. Your skill set is so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: You're so good at reading people. I mean, you probably
Speaker 1: can't even admit to me right now that Asio has
Speaker 1: been in contact with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, nah. Well that's what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 2: like I definitely probably should start my own firm or something,
Speaker 2: because the proof is in the pudding.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: I'm now four seasons in and I've been able to
Speaker 2: and I've got a pretty good record of being able
Speaker 2: to work things out and understand how people are going
Speaker 2: to react to certain things. And like I'm not I'm
Speaker 2: not perfect. I get things wrong, but in an overall
Speaker 2: scheme of things, the Traders is just an example of
Speaker 2: how how well I can put it together, you know,
Speaker 2: and how well I can judge and read a situation.
Speaker 2: Because even for us to work it out that we
Speaker 2: think a trader has turned on a trader, that's a
Speaker 2: big It's like, you know, it's like it's like three D.
Speaker 4: Chess, right, no one. And that's why I said that
Speaker 4: if animal went, can you imagine me trying to explain
Speaker 4: that to everyone, Everyone be like loops off his head
Speaker 4: because it is.
Speaker 2: It's so everyone likes it to be basic, very easy
Speaker 2: to understand and to sit there and explain to someone. Listen,
Speaker 2: I think a trader turned on a trader, and then
Speaker 2: they obviously have a recruited like to make themselves look
Speaker 2: like a faithful and I'm doing that by myself. People
Speaker 2: are like, man, this luke's been in this game for
Speaker 2: too long. He's got spiders on his brain.
Speaker 1: When you arrived and you realized you're not a trader,
Speaker 1: you're a faithful and you're their day one, what's the
Speaker 1: order of people you assumed were traders?
Speaker 2: Okay, so naturally you're in a car with Anabel, Me, Gloria,
Speaker 2: and Sam. And when me and Sam actually started chatting
Speaker 2: in the car, you could just tell where the two
Speaker 2: boys we're going to kick it off right. It's like
Speaker 2: if we're in a class of school, if we're playing
Speaker 2: sport together, they'd be like, yeah, we get along very well.
Speaker 2: We're very similar in a way, and we're just going
Speaker 2: to have each other's backs. When the actual the nomination
Speaker 2: for the traders were picked, it wasn't until so we
Speaker 2: all got picked. It was hard looking around everyone. But
Speaker 2: once we got out of that room, everyone formed groups
Speaker 2: and we're talking. And I noticed that in that small
Speaker 2: window of knowing Sam, and then the window of being
Speaker 2: touched on the shoulder, and then now he's in group situations,
Speaker 2: you could just see him in these small groups and
Speaker 2: he's beside me three or four people, and his demeanor
Speaker 2: changed hugely. It was like he was thinking about how
Speaker 2: he's going to go about being playing this trader position,
Speaker 2: because while everyone's.
Speaker 4: Talking, he's like nodding and like kind of not really
Speaker 4: being that.
Speaker 2: Funny or engaging in these small convos. And in my head,
Speaker 2: I was like, that's a massive change in personality. And
Speaker 2: then obviously after a day he went back to normal.
Speaker 2: He went back to d you know, insane and being
Speaker 2: quite direct. And I've played with a lot of players
Speaker 2: like that that like to tell you what to do.
Speaker 2: It's nearly like they have a ulterior motive. They have
Speaker 2: a motive in just saying But it's like, say, for instance,
Speaker 2: you live under the rule of your parents, and your
Speaker 2: parents tell you to clean your room or tell you
Speaker 2: to do something, you kind of have to because you
Speaker 2: live under your parents' rule. But as you get older
Speaker 2: and if you are living in a house with a
Speaker 2: friend and he's kind of always you know, the shop
Speaker 2: caller in the house, you can even roll it up
Speaker 2: with two ways. You can always agree with him, or
Speaker 2: you can listen to them and work out what their
Speaker 2: motives are and work out how they're behaving and how
Speaker 2: they can why are they telling you to do this
Speaker 2: and why are they asserting dominance? You can make them
Speaker 2: know that you are unhappy and you disagree, and you
Speaker 2: can have arguments about it whatever, right in front of
Speaker 2: or you can play the game behind the scenes behind
Speaker 2: them until you're knife because you know that, for instance,
Speaker 2: you don't agree what they're doing and you don't agree
Speaker 2: what they're saying.
Speaker 4: But I'll go along for now and play dumb.
Speaker 2: And be your little sidekick. But in the times right,
Speaker 2: I'll get you. And that's kind of how we thought
Speaker 2: we'd play, and it had nothing to do with Sam's personality.
Speaker 2: I like Sam. I've got all the time in the
Speaker 2: world for Sam. But unfortunately I worked out you're a trader.
Speaker 2: You're my best friend is a trader in this game,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately I was there to get traders, and I
Speaker 2: had to put that friendship aside and try to get him.
Speaker 2: Probably could have waited later, he might have kept me
Speaker 2: in the game. But if he had not kept me
Speaker 2: in the game, then I would have just been another
Speaker 2: dummy on that show.
Speaker 1: You're saying to me that you picked Sam straight away?
Speaker 1: Did you pick Ash? Did you pick Blake?
Speaker 4: So I kind of tried to play the middle ground.
Speaker 2: So at that time, it was like I felt like
Speaker 2: I was really close with Addabelle, I was really close
Speaker 2: with Sam, Me and Gloria you didn't see were also
Speaker 2: she was in the mix of that car kind of thing.
Speaker 2: So we all had this like I guess, like a
Speaker 2: not a pack, but a bit of like a situation
Speaker 2: where we kind of just had each other's because we
Speaker 2: had that time to meet each other before meeting all
Speaker 2: the rest.
Speaker 4: So we tried to use that as our advantage.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, you could see clicks forming,
Speaker 2: So it's a bit like high school, you know, you
Speaker 2: see Roha, Hannah and Ash. They were becoming very tight.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to look at that very clearly and go, well,
Speaker 2: that's a three. If I need to get votes, I
Speaker 2: want to either pivot with them or pivot with Sam
Speaker 2: and my group. But at the same time, you never
Speaker 2: ever close off your enemies. So at that time they
Speaker 2: would technically have been my enemy and in that game.
Speaker 2: But in saying that, what if Ash got Sam out
Speaker 2: and the votes did go to Sam, well, I wanted
Speaker 2: to pivot and be with that group with Ash, and
Speaker 2: knowing that.
Speaker 4: Ash is now a trader and Ash will protect me.
Speaker 1: So Ash you thought was a trader straight away? Is
Speaker 1: that what you're saying?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I thought Ash was a trader roughly
Speaker 2: when she started real pressing me about who's been throwing
Speaker 2: my name around there at that break when she we
Speaker 2: did a real clear handshake and then I said, well,
Speaker 2: Sam is and I could just see the reaction was
Speaker 2: not a reaction where it made me. I was very
Speaker 2: aware that Ash was a big personality and a very
Speaker 2: strong personality, and she's not easy to be pushed around.
Speaker 2: And then when I realized that Sam wanted to ash
Speaker 2: out and he was quite forceful about it, it's like, where's
Speaker 2: this coming from? So it's easy to put two and
Speaker 2: two together where you're like, wait a minute, he's nearly
Speaker 2: overplaying his hand right now because he wants ash out.
Speaker 4: And the only the only thing that made me think.
Speaker 2: Is like these guys are up at Trader's Tower not
Speaker 2: getting along, and because they're not that close outside of
Speaker 2: anywhere else, So where's this like I can't deal with
Speaker 2: Ash situation because everywhere else you don't have to deal
Speaker 2: with her. So why, as you you know, why is
Speaker 2: you like I can't deal with Ash. It's like, because
Speaker 2: you have to deal with Ash, and the only reason
Speaker 2: you have to deal with us because she must be
Speaker 2: up in the tower. And that just set off alarm
Speaker 2: bell as we were just bang bang, And it's easy
Speaker 2: when I go to Annabel and I go, hey, this
Speaker 2: is what I think, and she goes, boom, that's what
Speaker 2: I'm thinking. And so I could sit there and say
Speaker 2: to Hannah, I'll be like, you know Sam this, and
Speaker 2: then next minute she would just look off and this
Speaker 2: is oh and You're like yeah nah, And then you
Speaker 2: can you can pull back on that statement and go yeah, no.
Speaker 2: I was just kind of floating it because you look
Speaker 2: at the people's reactions and go, Okay, they didn't react
Speaker 2: how Annabel reacted.
Speaker 4: Annabel went, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 2: You said. Look at Ian. I said to Ian, I go,
Speaker 2: who else could you vote other than Limb? And he goes,
Speaker 2: well you, And that made me go, well god, I'm
Speaker 2: like he's not even picking up that there's there's a
Speaker 2: tiny chance that I'm having this conversation to save him.
Speaker 4: As soon as he said me, I was like, you
Speaker 4: would get.
Speaker 2: Eaten alive in Survivor. I'm so used to playing with
Speaker 2: high calibus social players that keep their cards close and
Speaker 2: don't overplay their hand, and people lying to my face
Speaker 2: and I'm lying to them. But we can still hold
Speaker 2: a good hours long conversation. The whole hour would be fake,
Speaker 2: a fake conversation for a whole hour. I can still
Speaker 2: hold one, and a good survivor player can as well.
Speaker 2: There was something happened in this show where it didn't
Speaker 2: make the cut, but Hayden and Elias were arguing quite
Speaker 2: argue about, you know, throwing each other's names out or
Speaker 2: whatever it was. And I said to Elias, I said, look, listen,
Speaker 2: because I trusted that both of them were faithful. They
Speaker 2: just wear their heart and their sleeves. They're those kind
Speaker 2: of people, you know. And I said, look, Alias, I
Speaker 2: go do this for me. Pretend that because I told
Speaker 2: them to make up, I said, make up like they
Speaker 2: finally made up.
Speaker 4: I said, LIUs, please tell.
Speaker 2: Everyone that you still are suss On Hayden and Peyden.
Speaker 2: You please tell everyone you'll still sus on a Lis,
Speaker 2: but be friends and make up and vote together. And
Speaker 2: the last goes, why the hell would I do that?
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god. It's layered gameplay it means
Speaker 2: that the traders would think that us will never vote
Speaker 2: together and that youth can get banished in those banishment
Speaker 2: rooms because use it at each other. But he couldn't
Speaker 2: understand the layered level of it so instantly. Again, that
Speaker 2: makes me go, all right, he's going to be hard
Speaker 2: to upskill to the point where he can hide his emotions.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm just a gamer, to make it simple,
Speaker 2: I'm a bloody gamer in there, and I want to win.
Speaker 1: It seemed like Roger maybe the producers was pushing Sam
Speaker 1: and Blake into recruiting and they kept not recruiting. I
Speaker 1: feel like they were they I feel like there was
Speaker 1: some subtle nudging to make to recruit you, like it
Speaker 1: had been visioned on a vision board somewhere. Did you
Speaker 1: feel like that was the case. Do you think now
Speaker 1: watching it back, that you're picking up on that subtlety
Speaker 1: of come on, guys, recruit.
Speaker 2: I think that Blake was sitting on the opposite side
Speaker 2: of the table where he was tight with Keith Simone.
Speaker 2: As I said, he was a big cuddly bear, and
Speaker 2: then you had I think Sam was up there now
Speaker 2: obviously with Blake, but he was running the other side
Speaker 2: of the field so you could actually see the table
Speaker 2: was nearly cut in half. I think Sam did an
Speaker 2: amazing job even just to keep Blake's target off me.
Speaker 2: That's why, you know, maybe I could have scooted through
Speaker 2: a little bit longer and not blindsided Sam at that
Speaker 2: and just stuck with the Blake vote. You know, once
Speaker 2: we realized that that last second, we're like, oh, Fannabel
Speaker 2: goes home, it's going to be very hard for me
Speaker 2: to explain this whole story. You know, and you make mistakes,
Speaker 2: you know, you look at the game and I could
Speaker 2: sit there and look at holes in my game and
Speaker 2: said I could have, should have, would have. But in
Speaker 2: the hindsight twenty twenty hindsight, it's always great when you're
Speaker 2: in there in the motions and you feel like you
Speaker 2: know your best friends on the top and block and
Speaker 2: I look it also at the game where if I
Speaker 2: couldn't win, who do I want to win?
Speaker 4: Well, I want to faithful win and I want Annabel
Speaker 4: to win.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you got to throw throw your game on the
Speaker 2: line to protect that. It's so funny. But to watch
Speaker 2: all their faces, oh my god, being pulled when they're
Speaker 2: getting asked if they're a trader and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: It's I love I love watching it back and I
Speaker 2: love seeing how everyone handles the pressure because.
Speaker 4: Some people fight in just like he was like, I
Speaker 4: can't change your mind.
Speaker 2: It is what it is. There was no real like
Speaker 2: listen to me, wait a minute, or like I didn't
Speaker 2: even think I actually it didn't show. At one point,
Speaker 2: Roger went to walk in the table to do his
Speaker 2: little last bit of monologue, and I went, and this
Speaker 2: was when me and Guyton were going at it. I went,
Speaker 2: wait a.
Speaker 4: Minute, Roger, get back out the table.
Speaker 2: I haven't finished. We're not like wrapping this up yet,
Speaker 2: Like you can like hold the hell on while I
Speaker 2: finish what I'm saying. And he was like, oh okay,
Speaker 2: so he stepped back out. You know, it was like
Speaker 2: it was nearly like because one time. The only reason
Speaker 2: why I did that is because I remember playing Survivor
Speaker 2: Jonathan when I worked out everyone was voting for me.
Speaker 2: This was in the first season. Jonathan goes, Okay, that's
Speaker 2: the right time to vote, and I stood up and
Speaker 2: I actually stood up to everyone. I went, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: use it all vote for me, and then he and
Speaker 2: then he proceeded to say all right, it's time to vote.
Speaker 2: And if I went, I wish I went. Shut up, Jonathan,
Speaker 2: I haven't let me. Let me I've only just come
Speaker 2: to the conclusion that I'm about to be blindsided. Now
Speaker 2: I need to sit there and react to this and
Speaker 2: deal with this situation. But I let him take control
Speaker 2: of the situation. And it felt very similar where it
Speaker 2: felt like you know, there was we were singing back
Speaker 2: and forth, and then Roger went to come in to
Speaker 2: take control of the situation, and I was like, this
Speaker 2: hasn't happen again. This isn't a repeat. Get the hell
Speaker 2: out of my circle, finishing off this chat.
Speaker 1: Nothing left on the table as far as I'm I'm
Speaker 1: a nothing left on the table kind of guy, exactly.
Speaker 2: And you can see that even when I was sticking
Speaker 2: up for Annabel and where and I'm going, wait a
Speaker 2: minute and trying to put my words together. You need
Speaker 2: to be very careful about being aggressive to the point
Speaker 2: where like Ash when it's Sam and told him to
Speaker 2: shut up, that it just got the whole table offside.
Speaker 2: That no one likes to see a guy talking to
Speaker 2: a girl to say shut up, and no one wants
Speaker 2: to see it goes it's there's definitely no gender roles
Speaker 2: when it comes to how you can talk to someone
Speaker 2: and how you can dismiss someone. But the idea is
Speaker 2: everyone handles that conflict differently. And it's funny because it's
Speaker 2: like you still want to leave everything on the table
Speaker 2: bar for your own personal gratification and to the fact
Speaker 2: that it helps you sleep better at night when you
Speaker 2: do get eliminated.
Speaker 1: Watching it now with the rest of us, do you
Speaker 1: think they're going to recruit or do you? I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like theycus they're going to need to and
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. But if you were in their situation,
Speaker 1: if you're one of the traders, would you recruit at
Speaker 1: this stage or would you just leave it where it is?
Speaker 2: I think right now is there is some tension between
Speaker 2: Sam and Blake. Oh yeah, So it's whether they can
Speaker 2: talk it out and come to a resolution, which is
Speaker 2: the most important thing, or do they go, all right,
Speaker 2: we're not recruiting, and then they go in and they
Speaker 2: just go like they're going to be hammering tong each
Speaker 2: other until they I guess, eat themselves and one wins.
Speaker 2: I guess if I had to put some money on it,
Speaker 2: I would try to recruit purely, just just to like
Speaker 2: know that confusion at least, well at least what happens
Speaker 2: is if you recruit, then you get back in the table.
Speaker 2: You can try to both go together to vote out
Speaker 2: the recruited, and if you vote them out, then you've
Speaker 2: done something together as a team again and you can
Speaker 2: kind of keep ste rolling.
Speaker 5: Go.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, it's a bit of a we're both voted
Speaker 2: out the new recruited, and now we're back on the
Speaker 2: same page. You know, let's let's move forward and win
Speaker 2: this thing.
Speaker 1: Do you think Blake and Sam are going to have
Speaker 1: long term friends out of this show? Do you think
Speaker 1: that by them being traders and being so manipulative in
Speaker 1: the game, that it's going to be hard for them
Speaker 1: to pick up a friendship?
Speaker 2: Do you know a great question? I don't. I haven't looked.
Speaker 2: I like Blake, but I don't think i've definitely, I've
Speaker 2: never really worked with him in the game to the
Speaker 2: point where you know, I, to be honest, I tried
Speaker 2: to take the game away from him. So I don't
Speaker 2: really know. Great great human, but I don't know how
Speaker 2: he looks at betrayal. You know, in this game and
Speaker 2: outside the game, I know what Sammy's like, and Sammy's
Speaker 2: just all about life and having fun. And he doesn't
Speaker 2: really attack people in this game whatever for their demise,
Speaker 2: Like he actually, I believe, would like everyone to win,
Speaker 2: but he just wants himself to win more. I don't
Speaker 2: think that if I voted him out that day, he's
Speaker 2: not going to hold a grudge on me. In saying that,
Speaker 2: I don't know how his relationship is with other people.
Speaker 1: I think people have got some I think there's some
Speaker 1: bad blood there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. To be honest, Like as I said, I don't
Speaker 2: know exactly if his friendships would last outside with other people,
Speaker 2: but I can't talk on that. Like I had more
Speaker 2: falling out in Big Brother than I have had in
Speaker 2: these three shows. You know, these three shows, I can
Speaker 2: actually say that I'm friends with everyone, friends with everyone,
Speaker 2: and Survivor friends with everyone, and you know those games,
Speaker 2: These games, I feel like have been way more intense
Speaker 2: than what Big Brother was.
Speaker 1: Being on all of these reality shows. Can you give
Speaker 1: me book contestants that is off your Christmas list that
Speaker 1: will never be on your Christmas list?
Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm not friends with Matt Cooper. I'm not
Speaker 2: friends with Ellie whatever last I forget it, last name,
Speaker 2: Like we've had a fallen out with her and her partner.
Speaker 2: I don't mind Dane, but I don't think we're just
Speaker 2: two different people. But you know, like and then look,
Speaker 2: it's running it back. It's gone back two years. I
Speaker 2: guess I've moved on from all that now. But there's three. Look,
Speaker 2: there's three. I don't want to find it big, you know.
Speaker 2: Now I'm just picking through people that A just and it'll.
Speaker 1: Get on the Daily Mail. Why the fuck am I
Speaker 1: having to defend this? But I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a long time ago. But I just I
Speaker 2: always I appreciate leaving these shows knowing that there's no
Speaker 2: bad blood and I'm definitely always on the front foot
Speaker 2: and trying to mend those relationships highs and those. But
Speaker 2: the reason why I say it is because I've been
Speaker 2: you know, I've lost and had people turn on me,
Speaker 2: and how I've handled it is how I wish other
Speaker 2: people would handle it if I did it to them.
Speaker 2: You know, I think I definitely have you know, as
Speaker 2: I said, four shows under the belt, and I can
Speaker 2: guarantee there is more than enough people on every single
Speaker 2: show that would vouch for the fact that I don't
Speaker 2: chuck my toys out the cop. When I don't lose,
Speaker 2: I don't win, you know, I don't win. It's just
Speaker 2: as me. I handled it. The reaction same as when
Speaker 2: I win, you know, and I throw some you know.
Speaker 2: Like I spoke to Keith yesterday and because I said, oh,
Speaker 2: you did a you know, I'm nearly putting his whole
Speaker 2: profession underwater because I'm like saying that, you know, you
Speaker 2: did a masterclass of being dumb, you know, and you're
Speaker 2: a police officer or whatever. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that that probably hit a bit harder. He'd be going
Speaker 2: to work and everyone be like, God, you're supposed to
Speaker 2: as he said, like he's around the country and everyone's going,
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be some undercover police officer. That's been
Speaker 2: one of the most decorated, you know, and you know what,
Speaker 2: he is a very nice person, and I totally get
Speaker 2: why he's he's done so well in life, you know. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: it was just that he'd took out He's taken out
Speaker 2: my friend and now ruined my game.
Speaker 1: I will say, though, with reality television people, people who
Speaker 1: are not used to it they think they say this
Speaker 1: one thing and it's going to get taken out of
Speaker 1: context and they turn it into everyone thinks that about me,
Speaker 1: But it's actually not like that at all. You can
Speaker 1: do something like you could do something terrible on these
Speaker 1: shows and it's a blip in society, like not everyone's
Speaker 1: watching the show.
Speaker 2: Like you know what I've realized in life, like even
Speaker 2: tomorrow is it's all news.
Speaker 1: Just before we go? Do you know anything about the
Speaker 1: latest Survivor? They're still filming it at the moment. Can
Speaker 1: you do you know a thing? As the underground community
Speaker 1: talking to.
Speaker 2: You, all I know is that they I believe there
Speaker 2: are they were filming.
Speaker 5: I would like to think this whole new cast is
Speaker 5: a newbie cast. I'd love to see some new blood
Speaker 5: bread and I do love to just as like I
Speaker 5: feel like I've had the experience twice and it's changed
Speaker 5: my life, and I'd love to see twenty four brand
Speaker 5: new people's lives be changed.
Speaker 2: And hopefully at some point, you know, down the track,
Speaker 2: I get a chair has to meet these new guys
Speaker 2: that are about to play and barrack them and support
Speaker 2: them to work out. So yeah, I'm always enjoying being
Speaker 2: a viewer and enjoying. I like other people's success just
Speaker 2: as much as I like my own.
Speaker 1: So just everyone who comes to the podcast gets asked
Speaker 1: this question, what is something from behind the scenes of
Speaker 1: the Traders, something that we won't see as a viewer,
Speaker 1: maybe kind of like a fun story from your time
Speaker 1: on the show.
Speaker 2: I was in a room that had a window, and
Speaker 2: you know, I was in there for however long, you know,
Speaker 2: so for just a couple of weeks or whatever it was. Anyways,
Speaker 2: and because I had a window, I would cut up
Speaker 2: fruit every morning into nice little small pieces, and I
Speaker 2: would put it and I'd open the windows and put
Speaker 2: all the fruit and I would sit beside the window,
Speaker 2: and eventually the birds would fly down and start nibbling
Speaker 2: on the fruit. And over after three or four days,
Speaker 2: five days, they started getting a bit more confident with
Speaker 2: me being there. And I would watch them just like
Speaker 2: sitting there eating this fruit every morning, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is relaxing. Like you know, I'm about to go
Speaker 2: into war and burst everyone. But I would have this
Speaker 2: like moments of peace, you know, where I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: like relaxing with the birds of Sydney and like minutes
Speaker 2: before going in and ripping everyone in the ass.
Speaker 1: I just think it's still a part of who you are,
Speaker 1: you know, just putting out a little bit of food
Speaker 1: every day, gaining a little bit of trust. And then
Speaker 1: I get out of my gun and I shut them off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then next for that, I was eating mate.
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being so generous with your time. I've really like you're
Speaker 1: somebody in this universe that I have been thinking about
Speaker 1: talking to and waiting for it to happen, you know,
Speaker 1: asganically as possible. I think you are such good television.
Speaker 1: I think you're a very lovely man, and I'll be
Speaker 1: in your audience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a superstar. And you know, like it's better
Speaker 2: doing this long format stuff sometimes, you know, rather than
Speaker 2: the shooting and real quick questions because you know you
Speaker 2: can't you can. We get to dive a little bit deeper, yeah,