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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers. Now, I'm doctor Justin

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Speaker 1: Colson and I'm joined by Luke and Susie husband wife

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Speaker 1: radio team, three young boys. Today. Well, it's all about

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Speaker 1: how we're going in Australia. We seem to have dodged,

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Speaker 1: at least at this stage the worst of COVID nineteen,

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Speaker 1: at least from an illness perspective, but the impact that

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Speaker 1: it's having on people's lives from an economic and social

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Speaker 1: perspective is big. Had a conversation with a friend recently

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Speaker 1: whose business has completely evaporated. In fact, I've had several

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Speaker 1: conversations with people whose livelihoods have utterly disappeared, sadly tragically.

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Speaker 1: I've also had conversations with people who have lost loved

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Speaker 1: ones to suicide. Because at least in part of the

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Speaker 1: challenges caused by social isolation or financial distress, extraordinary financial distress,

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Speaker 1: as businesses are closing and people are literally losing everything.

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Speaker 1: And so we decided that we needed to talk about

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Speaker 1: some of the challenges that come into this conversation. We

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Speaker 1: won't get too heavy, I promised, in fact, to kick

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Speaker 1: it off Susy reflected on a funny exchange that the

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Speaker 1: three of us had when we opened our zoom connection

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Speaker 1: and chatted prior to recording.

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Speaker 2: You asked us how we're going, and you let us

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Speaker 2: just tell you everything that's going on. But did you

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Speaker 2: notice we didn't ask you back?

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Speaker 3: Justin?

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Speaker 1: I did notice that, But that's okay. That's what I do.

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Speaker 1: I listened to people as they tell me how hard

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Speaker 1: their lives are. I'm okay with it.

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Speaker 4: I actually, at the moment he asked and we started answering,

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Speaker 4: I thought to myself, we need to ask him back.

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Speaker 3: I wonder how he's going.

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Speaker 4: I won't know, but he's a professional psychologist, so I'm

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Speaker 4: just going to take this as free therapy.

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Speaker 2: Do people take that for granted that you are presumably

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Speaker 2: fine because you have strategies to manage at this time?

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Speaker 1: Justin, I've never really thought about it much. I just

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Speaker 1: figured the whole world was selfish except me. I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 2: The challenge of the time is that COVID nineteen, the isolation.

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Speaker 2: Everything that's going on is a common human experience. Everybody

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Speaker 2: is facing the same thing. And I saw someone talk

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Speaker 2: about the fact that we are not in the same boat.

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Speaker 2: We're in the same storm. But given that we are

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Speaker 2: in the same storm, it's not like we can complain

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Speaker 2: because everybody else's complaint is the same. What do we

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Speaker 2: do justin Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's kind of under threat, I guess, and I use

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Speaker 1: the word threat in a really general way. We're under

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Speaker 1: threat from the point of view that we're worried and

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Speaker 1: stressed about the same sorts of things. Maybe not everybody's

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Speaker 1: losing a job, orthough a heck of a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are, But a lot of people are worried about

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Speaker 1: what's going on with school and their children adapting to

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Speaker 1: life at home and then readapting to life at school.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you've got all of these challenges where

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Speaker 1: we're in isolation. We don't know what's coming next. We

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Speaker 1: don't know if we can go on a holiday with

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Speaker 1: our family at Christmas time. There's so much unknown and

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Speaker 1: what we normally do when we're facing the unknown, as

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Speaker 1: we reach out to someone and say, hey, what would

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Speaker 1: you do in this situation, I'm a little bit stuck.

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Speaker 1: We call that psychological distance. You know, the person we're

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Speaker 1: talking to, because they're not in what we're in, they're

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Speaker 1: able to see things with more perspective, with more rationality

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Speaker 1: and objectivity, which means they sound so wise because we're

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Speaker 1: so emotional and unable to think for ourselves. But because everybody's,

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Speaker 1: like I said, under threat, everybody's feeling some version of

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Speaker 1: what is going on with this global pandemic. No matter

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Speaker 1: who you talk to, there's that sense of unease, that

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Speaker 1: sense of discomfort, that sense of lack of certainty. And

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Speaker 1: so what I think we really need to be able

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Speaker 1: to do is start to rely on what's going on

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Speaker 1: inside ourselves and create a sense of psychological distance intrinsically,

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Speaker 1: because the reality is we can't rely on the people

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Speaker 1: around us.

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Speaker 3: And that's not because they don't want to be there.

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Speaker 4: It's as much because of we don't feel that they're

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Speaker 4: not necessarily offering that in the same way we second

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Speaker 4: guess everything, or we.

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Speaker 3: Don't want to be the winds when they're going through

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Speaker 3: it as well.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's right, we want to be sensitive to their ccumstances,

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Speaker 1: but we also recognize that even though we're all in

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Speaker 1: the same storm. I love that metaphor, Susy, everybody is

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Speaker 1: experiencing it in a slightly different way, but everybody's experiencing it,

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Speaker 1: and that's the great challenge. It's not that they don't

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Speaker 1: want to help, it's just that when you're all in

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Speaker 1: it together, it can be hard to create the distance.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's something that I can be really

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Speaker 1: useful for in helping people to create that distance. Step

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Speaker 1: away and take a breath, see things rationally, and then

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Speaker 1: dive back into the fray in an effective and useful way.

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Speaker 4: So some people have accused me of my life of

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Speaker 4: being psychologically and emotionally distanced from other people, But how do.

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Speaker 3: I do it from myself? Justin how the heck do

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Speaker 3: we pull that off?

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Speaker 1: Well, I want to use a parenting strategy first, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll apply it to us as grown ups. So

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Speaker 1: there was a really clever bit of research done a

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Speaker 1: handful of years ago over in the United States where

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Speaker 1: some researchers sat down with kids and ask them about

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Speaker 1: their favorite superhero. Then they induced a degree of uncertainty,

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Speaker 1: you might even say, some worry or stress. They gave

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Speaker 1: the kids these challenging vignettes and scenarios to kind of

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Speaker 1: work through. They gave half of them the question, well,

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Speaker 1: what would you do in this situation? They asked the

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Speaker 1: other kids, what would your favorite superhero do? So let's

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Speaker 1: just say the superhero was Batman. They said, what would

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Speaker 1: Batman do in this situation? And the circumstances might have

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Speaker 1: been having a hard time at home with a parent

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Speaker 1: or a sibling, or struggling at school with an exam,

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Speaker 1: or just every day run of them, all kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: And what happened was that the children who thought about

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Speaker 1: what Batman would do, they created a degree of psychological

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Speaker 1: distance that helped them to come up with more creative

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Speaker 1: and more useful solutions to the challenging situations they were

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Speaker 1: in than the children who were just imagining what they

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Speaker 1: would do in that situation themselves. In other words, imagining

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Speaker 1: what Batman would do helps us to see things from

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Speaker 1: a different perspective and usually come up with the more

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Speaker 1: useful way forward. It doesn't just work with kids, though,

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Speaker 1: it works with us as grown ups. So look, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to ask you know, what would Batman do?

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Speaker 1: But I might say, too, you think about somebody that's

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Speaker 1: really level and balance that you look to as an example,

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Speaker 1: what would they do in this situation? And can you

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Speaker 1: channel that person?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Balance, I was just trying to look for sues. But

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Speaker 3: then I know, maybe that's not that's interesting. It's an

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Speaker 3: interesting thing and even.

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Speaker 4: Just down to who would I choose, who do I

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Speaker 4: want to be in this circumstance?

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Speaker 3: Who would I reach out to this? And that's a

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Speaker 3: fascinating thing.

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Speaker 1: Well. See, the other really cool thing about this particular

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Speaker 1: psychological distancing strategy is that I can give you a

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Speaker 1: list of all the different things that you need to

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Speaker 1: do when you're feeling under pressure to you know, step one,

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Speaker 1: step two, step three, step four, so that you can

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Speaker 1: deal with the circumstances in an effective way. But once

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Speaker 1: you're in the circumstances, you forget those steps because there's

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Speaker 1: so much pressure. Whereas when I just say, think about

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Speaker 1: it now now. For me, Wally Goddard is a mentor

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Speaker 1: of mine. He's a professor of family life development over

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Speaker 1: in a university in the United States, and he's guided

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Speaker 1: me so well for so many years. And so I

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Speaker 1: just on my inner Wally, I think, what would Wally

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Speaker 1: do right now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've chaneled my inn for many years. Different Wally,

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Speaker 3: I'm assuming.

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Speaker 1: And what it does is it makes it really simple

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Speaker 1: for me to just step into almost his character and

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Speaker 1: it helps me to be rational and calm and level.

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Speaker 1: Now there's an extension or an alternative version of this,

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Speaker 1: and I've had many parents say this to me, so please.

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Speaker 1: This is not an ego thing from my perspective, it's

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Speaker 1: just a useful strategy that people do to create some

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Speaker 1: psychological distance when it comes to dealing with challenges with

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Speaker 1: our children. For example, we tend to treat them differently

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Speaker 1: in the shopping center to how we treat them in

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Speaker 1: the living room. Yes, imagine that you've got an audience

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Speaker 1: in your living room. A lot of people say, justin

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Speaker 1: I just imagine that you're in the living room watching

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Speaker 1: me discipline my children, and it changes everything about the

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Speaker 1: way I interact with them. Once again, we're creating some

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Speaker 1: psychological distance.

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Speaker 2: But it's like we take more responsibility for thinking through

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Speaker 2: our actions more when we do that. When we're it's

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Speaker 2: conscious of people watching us, we do take a little

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Speaker 2: bit more time, take a breath and kind of think

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Speaker 2: what actually is going to look good here, as opposed

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Speaker 2: to just kind of going for the easiest thing to

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Speaker 2: do at the time, which isn't necessarily best for us.

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Speaker 2: For example, dealing with overwhelming stress, it's probably not best

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Speaker 2: to just sit down in front of Netflix, because it's

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Speaker 2: not going to instill any value or worth into you.

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Speaker 1: It's not. But let's face it, Susie, sometimes it feels

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Speaker 1: really good to do that, and you know and I

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Speaker 1: know that sometimes that is just what we need as

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Speaker 1: a pressure valve release. But both of us also know

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Speaker 1: that if we use that as our consistent go to

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Speaker 1: strategy today and tomorrow on the day after, we're going

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Speaker 1: to end up ruining ourselves and our families. We've got

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Speaker 1: to come up with better strategies. I mean, I actually

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Speaker 1: got the initial idea before I went into the research

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Speaker 1: on this, from listening to a podcast about a military

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Speaker 1: commander who talked about in the heat of a battle,

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Speaker 1: literally in the heat of the battle, the person who's

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Speaker 1: the commanding officer needs to try to get to higher

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Speaker 1: ground or try to move at least a couple of

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Speaker 1: meters back from the battle to see things a different

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Speaker 1: perspective and be able to think about the best strategy

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Speaker 1: to employ moving forward. In other words, they get out

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Speaker 1: of the moment somehow literally physically moving themselves backwards. And

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Speaker 1: we can't always do that when we're dealing with the

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Speaker 1: challenges that COVID nineteen's presenting for us emotionally and psychologically.

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Speaker 1: We can't do that in a physical way, but we

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Speaker 1: can do it by imagining what Batman would do, or

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Speaker 1: channeling our inner Wally, or imagining that there's a parenting

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Speaker 1: expert in our lund room watching us as we deal

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Speaker 1: with a challenging child who has.

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Speaker 4: Thought that WWJD had some psychological distancing benefits.

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Speaker 3: The old what would Jesus do? Maybe Kreig was all

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Speaker 3: about psychological distancing.

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Speaker 1: Justice and I love that because and I've had a

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Speaker 1: number of people who've got strong faith backgrounds use that

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Speaker 1: analogy as well, and I think it's a really really

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Speaker 1: useful one. If you've got a faith background, regardless of

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Speaker 1: where you're coming from or how you're doing it, if

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Speaker 1: we can channel our inner faith foundation, if we can

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Speaker 1: channel that inner person that we look to as an example,

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Speaker 1: we're simply going to be better people because of it.

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Speaker 1: And we don't have to memorize the steps. We just

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Speaker 1: have to step into that persona and it changes the

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Speaker 1: way we relate to other people.

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Speaker 3: Well, what would JC do? What would do? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I have those initials.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, it's interesting. It's counterintuitive that that something like

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Speaker 2: that something so simple as sort of trying to put

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Speaker 2: someone else's shoes on is actually kind to ourselves in

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Speaker 2: a beautiful way. Thank you, justin appreciate the advice.

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Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed the podcast and found it helpful, it

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Speaker 1: would be so wonderful if you would go to the

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcast's podcast app I don't know what it's called,

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Speaker 1: just Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and a review,

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Speaker 1: because it's your reviews that help people to find the

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Speaker 1: podcast and actually to have happier families. You might want

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Speaker 1: to leave a review just like Clemo did, who said

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Speaker 1: practical advice for improving the family, some great ideas for

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Speaker 1: developing better relationships with your kids. Or Andrea, who said

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Speaker 1: I loved the podcast from the beginning, but since it's

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Speaker 1: become the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 1: wants answers now, it's made it even easier for me

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Speaker 1: to listen to it on the go. So much great

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Speaker 1: advice and information shared, along with the stories and examples

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Speaker 1: that make it easier to put the learning into practice.

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Speaker 1: Love it all five star reviews. Really appreciate those coming through.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Andrea, Lorna and Clemo for

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Speaker 1: those reviews. If you'd like more information about how I

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Speaker 1: can be helpful to you and your family, please visit

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Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com dot you, I'll go to my Facebook

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Speaker 1: page doctor Justin Paulson's Happy Families