Speaker 1: Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and
Speaker 1: on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with
Speaker 1: the biggest players in television. This week, I've been celebrating
Speaker 1: the return of Wentworth for twenty twenty one for its
Speaker 1: final series on Foxtel. During the midweek episode, I featured
Speaker 1: Katrina Molossovic, who plays Boomer and if you miss that,
Speaker 1: feel free to flip back and check that out, as
Speaker 1: Katrina was fantastic unpacking the final series from an actor's perspective,
Speaker 1: as it was a great precursor to this episode as
Speaker 1: my guest today will delve deeper into the real, behind
Speaker 1: the scenes magic of the show.
Speaker 2: This week.
Speaker 1: My podcast recommendation is the podcast Unpopular with Jack Peterson
Speaker 1: and he has Janet Roach on the podcast. Check this
Speaker 1: out because Janet spills more tea on the Real Housewives
Speaker 1: of Melbourne than our entire tea range. As for what
Speaker 1: I've been watching on the box, I've been watching American
Speaker 1: Crime The Impeachment, which will be out on Binge September eighth.
Speaker 1: It goes into the Monica Lewinsky affair with Bill Clinton
Speaker 1: and it's absolutely riveting. Sarah Paulsen is back in another
Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy TV series. Yes, but she is unrecognizable, and
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go as far as saying it's
Speaker 1: her best role.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 1: I've also been watching Clickbait on Netflix, which has already dropped,
Speaker 1: so if you want to binge watch that, you can
Speaker 1: do that, and I'm going to feature that on TV
Speaker 1: Reload coming soon, so keep your eyes peeled for that one.
Speaker 1: This week on the podcast to have Marcia Gardner, who
Speaker 1: is an Australian screenwriter who's been working on Wentworth for
Speaker 1: nearly its entire run. Marcio has worked on shows like
Speaker 1: The Doctor, Blake Mysteries, Paradise, Beach, Medivac, All Saints, Heartbreak,
Speaker 1: High Blue Heelers and Sea Patrol, just to name a few. However,
Speaker 1: today we'll be going behind the scenes of Wentworth the
Speaker 1: Final Sentence, as we will unpack everything from bees death
Speaker 1: to the Freak's reappearance and all the ways in which
Speaker 1: the writing has kept us glued to the screen since
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. The show is wrapping up and I think
Speaker 1: today's episode is the ultimate companion for all Wentworth fans.
Speaker 1: Marster is one of the most regarded producers in the
Speaker 1: business and I'm sure you're going to love all of
Speaker 1: her stories. However, let's get started with today's guest. I'd
Speaker 1: like to welcome to the podcast, Marcia Gardner.
Speaker 4: Wentworth has been really unique in a way because I
Speaker 4: think it's punched well above.
Speaker 2: Its weight and a TV week Silva looad he goes.
Speaker 5: To went work.
Speaker 2: People always ask me that, and they're always shocked. Your
Speaker 2: Frankie door, aren't you?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: A lot about you.
Speaker 4: What sort of prisoner character would kind of you know,
Speaker 4: might have some of these qualities.
Speaker 7: My name's miss Ferguson, but you can call me governor.
Speaker 4: So yeah, we were really lucky to get that last
Speaker 4: commission of twenty episodes. I felt like a really appropriate
Speaker 4: way to finish.
Speaker 3: How are you made of you?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm very well, thanks, Benjamin.
Speaker 1: Just so exciting and so exciting to chat with you
Speaker 1: at the end of such a successful run of a
Speaker 1: television series.
Speaker 4: Yes, it was a long run, nine seasons or you know,
Speaker 4: eight part al part B. However you want to look
Speaker 4: at it.
Speaker 1: Well, I remember watching the very first series of Wentworth
Speaker 1: and being absolutely blown out of the water. You know,
Speaker 1: it was the first time I thought an Australian show
Speaker 1: could be seen internationally and stack up against you know,
Speaker 1: those big shows of the time, you know, like Gray's
Speaker 1: Anatomy or Breaking Bad or even Game of Thrones. You know,
Speaker 1: do you think that that was a particular turning point
Speaker 1: for our industry?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 4: Look, I think Wentworth has been really unique in a
Speaker 4: way because I think it's punched well above its weight,
Speaker 4: Like compared to those shows you mentioned, we're sort of
Speaker 4: operating on a fraction of the time, a fraction of
Speaker 4: the budget. So yeah, I think it's done exceptionally well.
Speaker 6: Since its premiere on Foxtel's Soho channel back in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 6: where Worth has become a global franchise, syndicated around the
Speaker 6: world and a proud recipient and countless awards.
Speaker 1: Well, what were your thoughts on Wentworth after watching the
Speaker 1: first series, because you did join in series two.
Speaker 2: I loved it when I first watched it.
Speaker 4: I was really attracted to it because what I loved
Speaker 4: about it was the grittiness of it and also the
Speaker 4: fact that you know, it was largely female driven, and
Speaker 4: it was also it was also unique in that it
Speaker 4: was about women, but women in an environment where they
Speaker 4: were isolated from the men in their lives. So that
Speaker 4: was a completely different look at women and how women
Speaker 4: would behave in the absence of men.
Speaker 1: Well it's interesting though, you know, trying to pitch shows
Speaker 1: all about women used to be very difficult because they
Speaker 1: would always have the studios having a lot of men
Speaker 1: there saying, you know, we need to have more male characters.
Speaker 1: But what do you think were your most noticeable changes
Speaker 1: between series one and series two when you came on board.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess the first thing we did was bring
Speaker 4: in the character of Joan Ferguson, because that was a
Speaker 4: character that really appealed to me to bring in the
Speaker 4: notion that she was a psychopath and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: So I mean that was a huge game changer. I
Speaker 4: think that introducing that character that sort of turned everything
Speaker 4: on its head and it kind of gave the show,
Speaker 4: you know, a slightly gothic aspect to it as well,
Speaker 4: which I don't think had previous.
Speaker 7: So my name's miss Ferguson, but you can call me Governor.
Speaker 1: Were you a fan of the original Prisoner and how
Speaker 1: much did that show and that original run influence this series.
Speaker 4: That's hilarious because people always ask me that and they're
Speaker 4: always shocked to learn that I've never.
Speaker 2: Actually seen even one episode of Prisoner. You sadistic bitch.
Speaker 8: I have quite a production line going Birdsworth, on the booze, Hunt,
Speaker 8: on the gambling. Oh you were set up by the
Speaker 8: way Smith. But then I suppose you've already realized that. Now,
Speaker 8: where was I? Oh, yes, Stevens.
Speaker 2: I'll be looking after the drugs.
Speaker 4: And when I got this gig, I deliberately then didn't
Speaker 4: watch it because I didn't want to be at all
Speaker 4: influenced by it, and I just wanted to maintain that
Speaker 4: notion of taking a completely fresh look at the characters.
Speaker 4: So I just completely did not want to be influenced
Speaker 4: in any way. So yeah, I have never to this
Speaker 4: day still watched an episode of Prisoner at some point
Speaker 4: to go back and have a look and go, oh
Speaker 4: my god, is that what it was about?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because there's similar names, you know, like there's
Speaker 1: characters and names of characters that were from Prisoner that
Speaker 1: found themselves in Wentworth. So I always felt like there
Speaker 1: had to have been some influence, and.
Speaker 4: Indeed there was, but it was it wasn't through me.
Speaker 4: It was through Pete mctire, who was the very first writer.
Speaker 4: He wrote the pilot, and he wrote a very large
Speaker 4: number of the episodes in season one and so, and
Speaker 4: Pete was a massive fan of Prisoner, and so he
Speaker 4: was like the depository of everything Prisoner. And you know,
Speaker 4: whenever we needed a name for a new character or whatever,
Speaker 4: you know, I would always turn to Pete and say.
Speaker 2: Oh, so, you know, who can we use, Like what sort.
Speaker 4: Of Prisoner character would kind of might have some of
Speaker 4: these qualities or so we would That's how we would work.
Speaker 3: Just dig it up from the archives.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like a hard drive of everything Prisoner.
Speaker 1: So well, there was a time where fans were divided
Speaker 1: over Orange is the New Black versus Wentworth. What did
Speaker 1: you think Wentworth's point of difference was from that show?
Speaker 2: Definitely tone.
Speaker 4: I think I only watched the very first episode of
Speaker 4: Orange is the New Black, and tonally it was quite different.
Speaker 4: It kind of trade a fine line between comedy and drama,
Speaker 4: and I don't think Wentworth.
Speaker 2: I mean, although that's not to say there is no
Speaker 2: humor in Wentworth.
Speaker 4: Certainly there is, but I don't think I think it's
Speaker 4: a much darker show than Orange.
Speaker 1: And I guess this is a bit of a tough
Speaker 1: question to ask because you know, we don't want any
Speaker 1: hits put on this person. But who made the decision
Speaker 1: for this series to be the last.
Speaker 4: I think it was probably a mutual decision. The network
Speaker 4: worth thinking of canceling the show earlier, and indeed they did,
Speaker 4: but I think there was such a such an outcry
Speaker 4: from the audience that they sort of rethought that and went, oh,
Speaker 4: there is.
Speaker 2: Still an audience for this show.
Speaker 4: So so yeah, we were really lucky to get that
Speaker 4: last commission of twenty episodes, which has gone to are
Speaker 4: two groups of ten, so this is sort of part
Speaker 4: two of the eighth season, which is why I said
Speaker 4: initially about eight or nine, depending on which way you
Speaker 4: look at it. So yeah, so we knew when we
Speaker 4: got that commission that would indeed be the end of it,
Speaker 4: and we were really happy to get to that one
Speaker 4: hundred episode mark as well, because it was the first
Speaker 4: show that for Foxtel I've had ever done that many
Speaker 4: episodes of a drama series, and so it felt like
Speaker 4: a really appropriate way to finish.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I Reckon.
Speaker 1: I signed I Reckon about four different petitions over time,
Speaker 1: so I'm assuming that the show had a lot of lives, yes,
Speaker 1: just from being asked to sign those petitions, but you
Speaker 1: never know, there could be a movie. Would you ever
Speaker 1: make a Wentworth movie?
Speaker 2: I probably wouldn't, but that's not to say others might not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know what things are like these days.
Speaker 1: We get them rebooted, we get them restarted, so there's
Speaker 1: different ways to bring it back. But it couldn't come
Speaker 1: back without you.
Speaker 4: I'm going to say, well, I think I've probably contributed
Speaker 4: all I possibly could to it, So I think it's
Speaker 4: you know, that's now it's up to the next person
Speaker 4: that take that on. But interestingly enough, though we lost characters,
Speaker 4: we as favorite characters, we as favorite actors playing those roles,
Speaker 4: and yet the show's gravitas never lessened. And if you
Speaker 4: look at what people say on social media, people talk
Speaker 4: about people like yourself being the backbone and staying on
Speaker 4: the show that you, in fact was who we couldn't lose.
Speaker 4: We couldn't lose the good writing. That's been one of
Speaker 4: the great strengths of the show is the writing team.
Speaker 4: And Pete has been on the writing team since day one.
Speaker 4: And you know, there's a small core of writers on
Speaker 4: the show that you know, have maintained that show and
Speaker 4: have been, you know, constantly passionately committed to the show
Speaker 4: and we feel like it's our baby.
Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely, Well over the eight seasons, which actor
Speaker 1: was the most different do you think from their character?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously these characters are criminals.
Speaker 2: That's easy. Definitely, Pamela Rave is nothing like Joan Ferguson.
Speaker 7: It feels great to play such an iconic role, I
Speaker 7: have to say, I mean because of the way I look,
Speaker 7: and I don't always look like this, but I've been
Speaker 7: casting a fair amount of nasty, powerful people in my time,
Speaker 7: and given that Joan Ferguson aka the Freak, is got
Speaker 7: to be one of the most iconic nasty people in
Speaker 7: Australian television. When I was approached about this, I just
Speaker 7: I squealed with delight.
Speaker 1: I remember being on Breakfast Radio and interviewing Cecilia Ireland,
Speaker 1: who played Lizzie, and I swear that I was talking
Speaker 1: to Lizzie when I did that interview, like there was
Speaker 1: obviously the character wasn't there, but sort of there was
Speaker 1: some essence there that definitely carried through. I think I
Speaker 1: think she was doing the laundry while she was talking
Speaker 1: to me, and it just sounded like Lizzie was in
Speaker 1: the laundry room having a chat.
Speaker 2: That's a bit scary, I know.
Speaker 3: I just what a great character though, absolutely so.
Speaker 5: Lizzie's journey from series one to series two. I think
Speaker 5: the main shift is that she goes from really caring
Speaker 5: for the women to actually hatching a plan to make
Speaker 5: a change.
Speaker 1: Was the decision to kill be because Dannielle Cormack wasn't
Speaker 1: coming back, or what was the decision in that that happening.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, it was Look, it was a decision
Speaker 4: that was purely based on the drama and the show.
Speaker 4: And we felt at that time that we came back
Speaker 4: with a plan for a further four seasons. So that
Speaker 4: was the end of season four. We had a plan
Speaker 4: for the for a further four seasons to get us
Speaker 4: to season eight, and we knew that we had to
Speaker 4: refresh the show because we felt like we had the
Speaker 4: character b was sort of a hero's journey that you know,
Speaker 4: she was like a tragic heroine and we had done
Speaker 4: pretty much every single permutation and every single challenge, and
Speaker 4: it was just to continue with that character, we would
Speaker 4: have had to have just wieled in yet another villain
Speaker 4: to you know, to be the antagonist for Bee, and
Speaker 4: we were, I think, in danger of repeating ourselves. So
Speaker 4: when we realized that, we knew that there was only
Speaker 4: one choice that we could possibly make.
Speaker 2: And even though even though it.
Speaker 4: Was a really difficult and scary decision to make, because
Speaker 4: considering the popularity of that character obviously by the same token,
Speaker 4: we felt that it was dramatically the absolute right decision
Speaker 4: to make, and that we had confidence that we would
Speaker 4: be able to create characters that would be embraced by
Speaker 4: the audience that would replace it and give the show
Speaker 4: that longevity that we wanted from it.
Speaker 6: I don't think anyone was expecting that it was such
Speaker 6: genius television making.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Also, the other thing that I thought was interesting was
Speaker 1: or was keen to know the answer to, was their
Speaker 1: characters that you created specifically for actors, because I thought
Speaker 1: with Sicred Thornton on the show that might have happened.
Speaker 1: You know, actors sounded like they were just wanting to
Speaker 1: get themselves into some of these meaty roles, and so
Speaker 1: they must have been putting their hands up, you know,
Speaker 1: were you creating specific characters for actors?
Speaker 4: Well, in that in that case, that's absolutely true. Although
Speaker 4: there was a permutation of that character that that had
Speaker 4: been floating around in some forward planning documents, but it
Speaker 4: was definitely when we knew that Sigrid had agreed to
Speaker 4: come on the show, then we definitely modified that character
Speaker 4: for her with her specifically in mind.
Speaker 1: Well, she was a great character, Like even her face
Speaker 1: without any words, Sigrid was just delivering.
Speaker 3: It was so good.
Speaker 9: I think Sony is very well aware that someone was
Speaker 9: out to get her, and I'm pretty sure she knows
Speaker 9: exactly who that is. She has to double check, but
Speaker 9: I think she comes in with a fairly strong sense
Speaker 9: that Liz was taking her own revenge.
Speaker 1: The story arcs are actually so brilliantly activated along the
Speaker 1: entire eight seasons. What was the longest point of trying
Speaker 1: to forward plan a story?
Speaker 4: I mean, we actually had at the beginning of every season,
Speaker 4: before we blotted a single episode, we had a massive
Speaker 4: forward planning session where we would figure out in quite
Speaker 4: a lot of detail what we were going to do
Speaker 4: for the entire season, so we knew where it was
Speaker 4: going to end right from the word go. We knew
Speaker 4: in broad strokes each and every character journey for all
Speaker 4: the characters exactly what they were going to do over
Speaker 4: that season. You know what their challenges would be, you
Speaker 4: know who their antagonists would be, all of that.
Speaker 2: So that was all extremely.
Speaker 4: Well planned out, and so when we came to plot
Speaker 4: the individual episodes, that was much more of really teasing
Speaker 4: out the detail of that story in those scenes. We
Speaker 4: absolutely knew where it was going to all fit into
Speaker 4: the grand plan.
Speaker 1: I can imagine that sometimes though that you know, for
Speaker 1: someone like Pamela Raye playing the Freak, you know, there
Speaker 1: was two seasons that Pamela was missing. You know, do
Speaker 1: you end up saying to Pamela, by the way, you're
Speaker 1: coming back, or did you just bury her and then
Speaker 1: wring her up and ask if should do the role later?
Speaker 3: Like how did that? How does that work out? Is
Speaker 3: the actor in the loop?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: In fact, when we buried, when we buried Jane Alive,
Speaker 4: I said to Pamela, we will bring you back. We
Speaker 4: need to rest the character for a couple of seasons
Speaker 4: because you know, it was just kind of becoming.
Speaker 2: More and more and more heightened.
Speaker 4: And we've sort of I think we needed to we
Speaker 4: needed a reset to ground the show again. And so
Speaker 4: but that was always the plan was to rest the
Speaker 4: character for a couple of seasons and then bring her back.
Speaker 4: Having said that, it was like, God knows how we're
Speaker 4: going to figure out a way, a way of you know,
Speaker 4: making this work and making this at all believable. But
Speaker 4: and you know, it was only really being able to
Speaker 4: figure that out that allowed us to bring her back.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to give anything away from the
Speaker 1: second part of series eight, but it's really clever writing
Speaker 1: that has allowed for this final ten episodes, for her
Speaker 1: character to be there and for it to all make sense.
Speaker 1: I think that was really clever because you had Pamela
Speaker 1: back to play the role last year, but was she
Speaker 1: really there or wasn't she You know, that was a
Speaker 1: big mystery. But then she is going to be allowed,
Speaker 1: I believe, you know, to play the Freak the way
Speaker 1: we know her for this last ten episodes.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and that was absolutely all by design because we
Speaker 4: just thought, you know, if we're coming home, we've got
Speaker 4: to come home with the Freak in a full stretch.
Speaker 1: Well, who was your favorite character to write for? Because
Speaker 1: I know this is like me asking you to pick
Speaker 1: you know, your favorite children, but surely there's some characters
Speaker 1: that stood out for you.
Speaker 4: Oh, look, yes it is. It's like going you know,
Speaker 4: which is your favorite child. I mean I loved writing
Speaker 4: The Freak, absolutely love writing the Freak, which is you
Speaker 4: know why we wanted to bring her back.
Speaker 2: I think we all did.
Speaker 4: But you know, by the same token, like I just
Speaker 4: love Rita and Ruby, you know when we brought those
Speaker 4: two characters in at the top of season six, Just
Speaker 4: love those characters. Murray, you know, fabulous character. We're just
Speaker 4: really blessed. You know that we've we had such a
Speaker 4: cast of amazing actors too, that could actually pull this
Speaker 4: stuff off, because there's one thing to write it, but
Speaker 4: then you've got to find actors that are willing to
Speaker 4: throw themselves into what's being asked of them.
Speaker 2: And we've been so fortunate.
Speaker 3: That it's been matched.
Speaker 1: And then you can write something so creative and so amazing,
Speaker 1: but then it can be matched. There wasn't a bad
Speaker 1: I mean you can't say this in other television series,
Speaker 1: but there wasn't a bad character. There wasn't a bad
Speaker 1: performance in this entire run.
Speaker 2: Exactly. We've been extremely fortunate.
Speaker 1: Was there ever a time where you guys fought in
Speaker 1: the writer's room? Because I also can imagine that these
Speaker 1: characters would be quite sacred to everybody, so I guess
Speaker 1: people would be very passionate. Was there biff ups in
Speaker 1: the writer's room?
Speaker 4: Look, I would say that we robust discussion was probably
Speaker 4: a key feature of the writer's room because we worked
Speaker 4: together for so long, and you know, these characters are
Speaker 4: all kind of grown with all of us.
Speaker 2: We were very much on the same page.
Speaker 4: So it wasn't like there was bitter disagreement about big issues,
Speaker 4: but we certainly had robust discussion about smaller things. And
Speaker 4: you know that just defending the character, the character's truth
Speaker 4: is always really important, I think, and you know, you
Speaker 4: can do the most outrageous things as long as you
Speaker 4: maintain the truth of the character.
Speaker 2: And so that's what most of the discussion would be about.
Speaker 1: I think of it from my point of view being
Speaker 1: a viewer, and I can't even remember the time the
Speaker 1: amount of times that I said to myself, you can't
Speaker 1: do that as.
Speaker 2: Long as it's character truthful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when scripting some of these exciting or dramatic scenes,
Speaker 1: did you get to be on set to watch or
Speaker 1: which have to sort of wait until it was done?
Speaker 1: The good scene that I could talk about was Sally
Speaker 1: ann Upton's performance of Juicy Lucy. You know, with the
Speaker 1: tongue removing scene. One thing to be in a writer's
Speaker 1: room and to put that down to paper, but another
Speaker 1: thing to watch it. Are you ever allowed to be
Speaker 1: on set to see them?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: Look, absolutely, We could go on to set whenever he
Speaker 4: wanted to, but very infrequently did because unless, you know,
Speaker 4: unless there was something where I was needed. But just
Speaker 4: because we were so busy, we were just we were
Speaker 4: just flood out doing you.
Speaker 2: Know, doing our own job.
Speaker 4: But funny, you should mention that particular example because as
Speaker 4: soon as the tongue cutting scene was shot, Sally came
Speaker 4: running up to the writer's room and we've got a
Speaker 4: fantastic photo of us standing with them, with her in
Speaker 4: our arms around her, you know, in the writer's room
Speaker 4: she's governed in blood hysterical.
Speaker 1: Did you ever have to turn away? Because you know,
Speaker 1: second episode of this last season, I actually turned away,
Speaker 1: and I turned away for ninety seconds because I ended
Speaker 1: up going back and rewatching how long this moment went
Speaker 1: for it hasn't planned on telling, so I'm not saying
Speaker 1: what it is. But episode two of the final series,
Speaker 1: I definitely looked away? How many times, Derek, can you
Speaker 1: looked away?
Speaker 4: Or probably is the grizzliest scene that we've ever done.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm so screamish. I'm unbelievably screamish. I turned away
Speaker 4: all the time, and I.
Speaker 2: We came up with this stuff and I can't actually
Speaker 2: handle watching it.
Speaker 4: I think our makeup team were just heard by the way,
Speaker 4: you know, they were just managed to do some of
Speaker 4: this stuff so convincingly.
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, just some of the bruises, you know,
Speaker 1: or the aftermath and the healing was so cleverly done
Speaker 1: because it was never forgotten. It was done with amazing continuity.
Speaker 1: That's what I thought was quite impressive.
Speaker 9: Once they do like doing all the makeup for that,
Speaker 9: and also Megan has did it has made a beautiful
Speaker 9: tone that all of that's made out of sugar syrup.
Speaker 1: This season does feel like the final series does look
Speaker 1: like you're farewelling people with integrity to their characters. Did
Speaker 1: you feel like everyone was getting their moment?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: No, we were very conscious of that, and as I
Speaker 4: was saying before about character truth, to try to main
Speaker 4: that to the very end and to not allow character
Speaker 4: to serve as plot no matter where we wanted the
Speaker 4: story to go, we'd always just would determine not to
Speaker 4: manipulate the character to service the plot. And so yes,
Speaker 4: I think that character truth was maintained right to the
Speaker 4: very end, and we made sure everybody had an outcome
Speaker 4: that befits their character.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the essence over the whole run of
Speaker 1: the show, and the one thing that I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: was sort of questioning yourself, now, are they a good
Speaker 1: guy or are they a bad guy? You know, like
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that as a viewer because some people
Speaker 1: like Jake the Snake is a good example of that
Speaker 1: with him. You know, he did some wicked things in
Speaker 1: the show, but then he'd become good for so long
Speaker 1: that you'd forget that he was Jake the Snake. And
Speaker 1: I thought that that challenge with us as an audience,
Speaker 1: is he a good guy or a bad guy? I
Speaker 1: thought was very cleverly plotted.
Speaker 4: We don't tend to think even in terms of ore
Speaker 4: they good or bad characters. We're just we tend to
Speaker 4: think in terms of their humanity. And they can do
Speaker 4: bad things, and they can be very bad and very black,
Speaker 4: but we always try and find the humanity and the
Speaker 4: character and find the dimensions. And the other thing that
Speaker 4: was so fun to do was to have a character
Speaker 4: that we knew the audience really hated and then go, Okay.
Speaker 2: Now we're going to make you love them.
Speaker 4: And then and then just like sort of deliberately try
Speaker 4: and challenge that character in a way that it brought
Speaker 4: out a completely different side of them or the opposite.
Speaker 1: I felt like that with Kas Procter. You know, I
Speaker 1: just was like so confused the whole time. You know,
Speaker 1: I really loathed her at times, but then I really
Speaker 1: loved her.
Speaker 2: Do you see strength as your defining quality?
Speaker 1: Is that why you're top dog?
Speaker 2: Probably?
Speaker 8: When I was a kid, I was the victim I was,
Speaker 8: but I refused to let that be my story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that particular character made me feel like I
Speaker 1: had bipolar Like I just I just couldn't put it
Speaker 1: all together just quickly. I would say, though, with Bernard,
Speaker 1: Bernard's in Big Brother at the moment, being in Big
Speaker 1: Brother VIP, how do you think he's going to go
Speaker 1: in that show?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I didn't even know that. See, that's
Speaker 2: how out of the loop I am.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that he's in Celebrity Big Brother
Speaker 1: as we speak, which will be seen on television, you know,
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter of this year.
Speaker 3: So I just I wonder how he'll go.
Speaker 2: Well, if he channels Jake, he'll survive.
Speaker 3: It's some great advice.
Speaker 1: I wish you would have seen him before he went
Speaker 1: in to say that to him.
Speaker 10: One of the best words used to describe Jake came
Speaker 10: from Marcio, a headwriter, which is duplicitous. So he's kind
Speaker 10: of got that ability to be charming and to you know,
Speaker 10: to kind of be sort of light about things, but
Speaker 10: then you know he's able to cross the line.
Speaker 1: How involved were the writers and the actors? You know,
Speaker 1: like how involved with the writers were the actors? Should
Speaker 1: I say? Because were they allowed to come and talk
Speaker 1: to you about what they felt?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and we worked very closely together, so we would
Speaker 4: always the door was always open. We would always discuss
Speaker 4: things if anyone had any issues or just wanted to
Speaker 4: talk about stuff.
Speaker 2: Where's this storyline going for the character or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we work really closely together. And that was fantastic too.
Speaker 4: And that was by virtue of the fact of having
Speaker 4: that fantastic studio in Newport that we were all under
Speaker 4: one roof, so we could just walk in, you know,
Speaker 4: they could just walk into my office and have a yak,
Speaker 4: which was great.
Speaker 1: Were you ever shocked to the guests by watching the
Speaker 1: scenes being played out? And the reason why I asked
Speaker 1: that question is sit a separate to the gruesomeness of
Speaker 1: some of it or some of the elevated storylines, But
Speaker 1: were you ever shocked by the actors performance where you thought, wow,
Speaker 1: that was just given a different dimension.
Speaker 4: I don't know about a different dimension because we're generally
Speaker 4: always on the same page, but certainly I've sat there
Speaker 4: and cried at stuff that I've been so intimately involved
Speaker 4: in plotting and writing and all that, yet they've been
Speaker 4: very moving.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can imagine what was the biggest obstacle
Speaker 1: to write around, because there's been a few obstacles, you know,
Speaker 1: like sets no longer being there, or maybe act is
Speaker 1: not necessarily being available again, or you know what's been
Speaker 1: the biggest obstacle for you to write around?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, certainly COVID.
Speaker 4: I mean this last season that's about to go to
Speaker 4: air was shot entirely, almost entirely during COVID, and so
Speaker 4: that was a huge process to I mean, sadly, all
Speaker 4: our location component had to be ditched, so we lost
Speaker 4: some fabulous, some fabulous story material that just had to
Speaker 4: go because we couldn't shoot on location. We were confined
Speaker 4: to our building and our sets. I mean, the audience
Speaker 4: will never notice because what we've got is fabulous, but
Speaker 4: I know, I know what's missing. So yeah, definitely that
Speaker 4: all the restrictions around shooting and everything made life difficult
Speaker 4: for everybody.
Speaker 2: But the actors were incredible, They were amazing.
Speaker 4: The whole crew just worked so diligently to just to
Speaker 4: not have it show on screen, and I don't think
Speaker 4: it does, so yes, but that was tricky, but that
Speaker 4: was all tricky behind the scenes stuff.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a scene that's not that you
Speaker 1: couldn't do? Is there anything that you can reveal that
Speaker 1: you didn't shoot?
Speaker 2: I think yeah. Probably.
Speaker 4: There was a whole storyline in the second episode which
Speaker 4: involved Rita's character, because as you know, Rita's on the
Speaker 4: run from witness protection and so we had a whole
Speaker 4: location storyline that took place back in her hometown that
Speaker 4: was just fabulous and was such a wonderful Rita's story.
Speaker 4: And yeah, almost all of it wasn't possible to shoot
Speaker 4: it I.
Speaker 1: Think what's interesting as well is there is the writer's room,
Speaker 1: and you know you're in control of sort of making
Speaker 1: sure all of this happens, but then you've got individual
Speaker 1: writers that own those each episode. Is there a common
Speaker 1: piece of advice that you give to that writer when
Speaker 1: it's their episode to then take over. Is there something not?
Speaker 4: Really, because we've we've always we have quite a unique
Speaker 4: way of working on Wentworth, which was that we work
Speaker 4: as a team, so we forward plan everything together, we
Speaker 4: develop everything together, we plot everything together. So the only
Speaker 4: thing we don't do together basically is the actual writing
Speaker 4: of the script.
Speaker 2: But it's so.
Speaker 4: Well planned out in advance that we're all pretty much
Speaker 4: on the same page.
Speaker 2: And all across the story.
Speaker 4: And I think that's what gives it such great continuity,
Speaker 4: because we all sort of feel creative ownership over the
Speaker 4: whole thing. It's not really telling everyone else do it
Speaker 4: this way or do it that way.
Speaker 2: We all we developed, the whole team, develop it together.
Speaker 1: I was talking to Michael Lucas, who's on the episode
Speaker 1: prior to yours, and it was just interesting to talk
Speaker 1: to him about killing off Patrick on Offspring and then
Speaker 1: working on killing off being responsible for some of the
Speaker 1: biggest television deaths of all time, and he was saying
Speaker 1: he wasn't his idea to start with, but he felt
Speaker 1: so impressed that he was. He felt he felt right
Speaker 1: about having the opportunity to write those those episodes, and
Speaker 1: it must be hard to hand that over in some way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Well, we actually have to have a ballot
Speaker 4: because about who writes what, because we're just like so
Speaker 4: attached to some episodes and some character journeys and everyone
Speaker 4: wants this one then, so we actually I've even abligated responsibility.
Speaker 2: For telling people what they're going to write.
Speaker 4: So we just literally draw numbers out of a hat
Speaker 4: and go okay, because that's the only equitable way of
Speaker 4: doing it because we're all so desperate to write certain things.
Speaker 1: You know, wow, I mean, do you do that for
Speaker 1: every episode or is it just the episodes that you've
Speaker 1: got too many people asking you to take on the
Speaker 1: whole season?
Speaker 4: So we always just like go okay, you get first choice,
Speaker 4: you get second choice, you get third choice, you get
Speaker 4: fourth choice, and we share the choice, you know, so
Speaker 4: who ever got fourth choice last time gets first choice
Speaker 4: this time.
Speaker 2: And that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: That's pretty impressive going into your career, which television shows
Speaker 1: writing have you admired the most? Maybe looking at coming
Speaker 1: into the industry, but also maybe even now, I.
Speaker 4: Probably gravitate to shows that have very strong female lead characters,
Speaker 4: like I've just loved Mayor of Easttown recently, but I
Speaker 4: loved Homeland for that reason.
Speaker 1: Two were the best actresses in the world, Claire Danes
Speaker 1: and Kate Winslett, just absolutely amazing. But then it also
Speaker 1: Kerry Russell in The Americans, so absolutely. But what about
Speaker 1: getting into television. Was there writing that had inspired you
Speaker 1: to be a television writer.
Speaker 4: Well, I went to film school, but originally I guess
Speaker 4: my idea was to be a director. But you know
Speaker 4: at film school you kind of have to write something
Speaker 4: first before you can direct it, right, So that's how
Speaker 4: I started writing. It really wasn't my intention to be
Speaker 4: a writer, in fact, but yeah, I started writing and
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, you're a writer, you can write. So
Speaker 4: having left film school, then I got a job as
Speaker 4: a writer and sort of never never really stop.
Speaker 1: Has there ever been in your career a mistake that
Speaker 1: you've learned from? Is there anything that's gone to air
Speaker 1: that you've gone on that was a big mistake from.
Speaker 2: I mean, the great thing about mistakes is that you
Speaker 2: do learn from them. You absolutely do learn from them.
Speaker 4: You try something, it doesn't work, and you see it
Speaker 4: on air and just go, oh, cringe, that was a
Speaker 4: really bad idea.
Speaker 2: I won't do that again.
Speaker 1: And then also with the research for these sorts of
Speaker 1: shows as well, I can imagine that would be fun
Speaker 1: to do the research. I mean, did you for this show,
Speaker 1: did you go and see what the women's prisons were? Like?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: That's one of the great things about being a writer
Speaker 4: is that you get to sort of enter into all
Speaker 4: these different worlds of the shows you that you work on,
Speaker 4: and I really love that aspect of it. You get
Speaker 4: to see how other people live their lives. But yes,
Speaker 4: we did. We went out to the women's prison here
Speaker 4: in Melbourne and spent some time out there talking to
Speaker 4: prisoners and and talking to prison officers and talking.
Speaker 2: To the governor. And it was nothing like Wentworth.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, other governors like this in
Speaker 1: real life, because Vera, as much as we love, Vera's
Speaker 1: making a very questionable governor at times. What about storylines though?
Speaker 1: Did you manage to steal some storylines that are real
Speaker 1: like as in was there ever steal Wentworth storylines where
Speaker 1: people at home are be thinking, oh my god, that's
Speaker 1: fast fetched, but was actually based on some truth.
Speaker 2: Oh, probably not.
Speaker 4: A storyline per se, but certainly lots of the detail,
Speaker 4: certainly lots of detail of prison life and you know,
Speaker 4: things that happen. Yeah, we try and try to include
Speaker 4: as much of that authentic detailers that as.
Speaker 2: We could find.
Speaker 1: And I can imagine you know, Kevin Carlin has brought
Speaker 1: a lot to the role, you know, as serious director
Speaker 1: over the years. What do you think Mark's his signature
Speaker 1: work on the series?
Speaker 2: Oh, Kevin's amazing.
Speaker 4: Kevin was the setup director at the very beginning of
Speaker 4: the show and he shot the last, the final episod
Speaker 4: so quite rightly and has been an absolute mainstay of
Speaker 4: the style and the tone and style of the show.
Speaker 4: And what's so fabulous about Kevin is that he's just
Speaker 4: so incredibly script literate, and so he just instinctively.
Speaker 2: Knows exactly it was.
Speaker 4: It was kind of like he knows instinctively exactly what
Speaker 4: the intention of the script is and the drama and
Speaker 4: the characters objectives, and so it was so fabulous to
Speaker 4: work with him for that reason.
Speaker 1: Both of you had bought such a consistent and amazing
Speaker 1: level of work to this show over the whole series.
Speaker 1: So that's the reason why I was excited. And he
Speaker 1: did Big Girls blouse back in the day, so he
Speaker 1: understood humor.
Speaker 2: Oh totally, totally.
Speaker 4: But you know, and the other thing too, is that
Speaker 4: Kevin's so thorough like he will interrogate the meaning of something,
Speaker 4: you know, so thoroughly, and he's so well prepared and
Speaker 4: there's not a question he can't answer for the actors
Speaker 4: on the set, and because he just makes it his
Speaker 4: business to understand absolutely everything about the material.
Speaker 2: And yeah, which is just brilliant. I love working with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looks like he's a lot of fun. And
Speaker 1: you know, working with Joe and Penny must have been
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. You know, both exceptional executive producers.
Speaker 1: You know what was your favorite memory back, you know,
Speaker 1: looking back over the series collaborating with these amazing women.
Speaker 4: Look, they are fabulous, and what's so great is just
Speaker 4: that the enthusiasm and the trust that they gave us
Speaker 4: as a writing department was really outstanding, really outstanding and
Speaker 4: unique and allowing us to have the time that we
Speaker 4: needed to develop the show because traditionally in Australian drama
Speaker 4: you don't get very much time at all to throw
Speaker 4: something together. And we kind of said from the beginning that,
Speaker 4: well know, we need this amount of time to do
Speaker 4: something really good, and we got it. So I think
Speaker 4: that's one of the main reasons that the show was
Speaker 4: so successful, is that we got you know, sufficient time
Speaker 4: to actually develop the material.
Speaker 8: Well.
Speaker 1: I think in lots of ways, that's what's interesting about
Speaker 1: these shows these days. It's better to have, you know,
Speaker 1: back in the day to have a TV series that
Speaker 1: order like twenty eight or thirty two episodes of the year,
Speaker 1: and so you're stretching yourself quite thin where we've thrown
Speaker 1: that out of the window now and that's not happening.
Speaker 1: You know, you're getting the opportunity to tell you know,
Speaker 1: maybe eight episodes or ten episodes and do it well.
Speaker 1: So I think that we've really progressed in the way
Speaker 1: that storytelling, I guess is being made, don't you think it?
Speaker 2: Certainly. I mean it shouldn't be a luxury.
Speaker 4: It feels like a luxury, but it shouldn't be a
Speaker 4: luxury because in the US it's quite different.
Speaker 2: I think it's The most important.
Speaker 4: Thing for a successful drama is development time, and if
Speaker 4: you short change that then I think that's a reason
Speaker 4: why a lot of things aren't as don't really live
Speaker 4: up to the potential of the concept.
Speaker 1: And you're working at the moment. I heard that you're
Speaker 1: quite busy working on a show at the moment. What's
Speaker 1: the show that you've got coming up?
Speaker 2: I can't talk about that really.
Speaker 1: Surprisingly, I've signed an NDA, so I can't tell you.
Speaker 1: We know it's going to be good. Is it for Foxtel?
Speaker 1: Can you tell us that much?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if I can or not.
Speaker 3: I said to Brian.
Speaker 1: I had Brian Walsh on the show a few months
Speaker 1: back and I interrogated him about Wentworth coming to an
Speaker 1: end and he was like, look, I think it's time.
Speaker 1: It's the bow that we wanted to put on the show,
Speaker 1: and he had a nice way of talking about it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, please tell me that you've got
Speaker 1: the writer, you know, lock the writers in to do
Speaker 1: more shows for Foxtail, because you'd be stupid not to.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, I will say that we would be very
Speaker 4: delighted to work with Foxtel again because it was a
Speaker 4: fabulous experience, and so yes, and with Joe and Penny.
Speaker 1: Well, I always ask this question to everyone that joins
Speaker 1: us on the show, and that is what is an
Speaker 1: amazing story from behind the scenes that we as an
Speaker 1: audience would appreciate. Maybe something you know that happened that
Speaker 1: we didn't get to see.
Speaker 4: Probably what's really outstanding about Wentworth is the camaraderie between
Speaker 4: the whole production, all fat you know, all the departments,
Speaker 4: all the cast, everybody involved in the show. Every lunch
Speaker 4: time we would always sit down in the catering area together.
Speaker 4: We always had lunch together, so the whole crew and
Speaker 4: everybody cast and crew all together, people past dressed up
Speaker 4: in their costumes, all bashed up, you know, with bloodbreading
Speaker 4: out of their head and all this sitting down.
Speaker 2: Having lunch with you know, we're just having a nice
Speaker 2: conversation over lunch, and you know, he's beaten up people
Speaker 2: around you and all this type of thing.
Speaker 4: But Robbie Megaceva made it his business to discover when
Speaker 4: everybody's birthday was, and.
Speaker 2: He would he would just he would, he would.
Speaker 4: Put on a performance, increasingly elaborate, well thought out performances
Speaker 4: for everybody's birthday, and as it went along that they
Speaker 4: just became more and more elaborate, and it was just fantastic,
Speaker 4: just fabulous, you know, and everyone would get up and
Speaker 4: sing happy birthday to whoever it was, and it was
Speaker 4: just the most wonderful camaraderie that you know, you would
Speaker 4: ever hope to come across on a show. And we
Speaker 4: were just like this massive, big family by the end
Speaker 4: of it. And you know, I just think that's something
Speaker 4: that's just be very surprised if that anyone ever experiences
Speaker 4: anything like that again on a show.
Speaker 2: But you know, we had that on went so it's
Speaker 2: just you know, very very happy.
Speaker 4: But the warmth and generosity you know, that existed between
Speaker 4: everybody and you know, and Robbie really.
Speaker 1: Drove that it has to be the reason why the
Speaker 1: show's resonated so well, though, Is that that's their hope.
Speaker 1: Lightning strikes twice and three times and four times for
Speaker 1: you and you get to continue to work in these
Speaker 1: amazing environments and tell amazing stories.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, we we as a writing team, and you know,
Speaker 4: and producers are very determined to work together again. And
Speaker 4: you know, having established all these fabulous relationships, why wouldn't
Speaker 4: you want to continue to just not just not just
Speaker 4: not went Worth the movie, just the movie. There'll be
Speaker 4: something else, something else, equally fabulous, fabulous.
Speaker 1: Well, I just want to say thank you so much
Speaker 1: for taking the time to have this chat with me
Speaker 1: today on TV Reload. I've been a huge fan of
Speaker 1: the show the whole way through, been lucky enough to
Speaker 1: see the first few episodes, and the show is setting
Speaker 1: itself up to be a cracker. So I want to
Speaker 1: say thanks for doing such an amazing job and I'll
Speaker 1: always be in your audience.
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, thank you, And I hope you, I
Speaker 4: really hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Are really doing