WEBVTT - WENTWORTH SCRIPT-WRITING MASTERMIND 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.320 Welcome back to TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris and 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.840 on this podcast I'll be going behind the scenes with 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.320 the biggest players in television. This week, I've been celebrating 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.119 the return of Wentworth for twenty twenty one for its 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.720 final series on Foxtel. During the midweek episode, I featured 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.040 Katrina Molossovic, who plays Boomer and if you miss that, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.040 feel free to flip back and check that out, as 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.640 Katrina was fantastic unpacking the final series from an actor's perspective, 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.880 as it was a great precursor to this episode as 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.920 my guest today will delve deeper into the real, behind 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:33.520 the scenes magic of the show. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:34.280 This week. 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:38.400 My podcast recommendation is the podcast Unpopular with Jack Peterson 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.120 and he has Janet Roach on the podcast. Check this 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.640 out because Janet spills more tea on the Real Housewives 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.800 of Melbourne than our entire tea range. As for what 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.440 I've been watching on the box, I've been watching American 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.280 Crime The Impeachment, which will be out on Binge September eighth. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.000 It goes into the Monica Lewinsky affair with Bill Clinton 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.320 and it's absolutely riveting. Sarah Paulsen is back in another 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.520 Ryan Murphy TV series. Yes, but she is unrecognizable, and 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.160 I think I'm gonna go as far as saying it's 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:08.720 her best role. 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:09.080 Today. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.279 I've also been watching Clickbait on Netflix, which has already dropped, 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:15.160 so if you want to binge watch that, you can 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.160 do that, and I'm going to feature that on TV 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.440 Reload coming soon, so keep your eyes peeled for that one. 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.080 This week on the podcast to have Marcia Gardner, who 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.640 is an Australian screenwriter who's been working on Wentworth for 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.760 nearly its entire run. Marcio has worked on shows like 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:34.200 The Doctor, Blake Mysteries, Paradise, Beach, Medivac, All Saints, Heartbreak, 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:38.240 High Blue Heelers and Sea Patrol, just to name a few. However, 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.520 today we'll be going behind the scenes of Wentworth the 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.920 Final Sentence, as we will unpack everything from bees death 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.840 to the Freak's reappearance and all the ways in which 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.200 the writing has kept us glued to the screen since 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.720 twenty twelve. The show is wrapping up and I think 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.760 today's episode is the ultimate companion for all Wentworth fans. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.240 Marster is one of the most regarded producers in the 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.600 business and I'm sure you're going to love all of 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.200 her stories. However, let's get started with today's guest. I'd 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.600 like to welcome to the podcast, Marcia Gardner. 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.000 Wentworth has been really unique in a way because I 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:12.560 think it's punched well above. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.440 Its weight and a TV week Silva looad he goes. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:16.640 To went work. 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.520 People always ask me that, and they're always shocked. Your 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:21.600 Frankie door, aren't you? 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:21.920 Yeah? 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:22.959 A lot about you. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.440 What sort of prisoner character would kind of you know, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.200 might have some of these qualities. 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.360 My name's miss Ferguson, but you can call me governor. 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.280 So yeah, we were really lucky to get that last 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:40.040 commission of twenty episodes. I felt like a really appropriate 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.040 way to finish. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:43.200 How are you made of you? 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.960 Well, I'm very well, thanks, Benjamin. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.519 Just so exciting and so exciting to chat with you 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:51.640 at the end of such a successful run of a 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:52.520 television series. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.959 Yes, it was a long run, nine seasons or you know, 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.480 eight part al part B. However you want to look 0:02:59.480 --> 0:02:59.799 at it. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.560 Well, I remember watching the very first series of Wentworth 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.200 and being absolutely blown out of the water. You know, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.000 it was the first time I thought an Australian show 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.200 could be seen internationally and stack up against you know, 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.360 those big shows of the time, you know, like Gray's 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.800 Anatomy or Breaking Bad or even Game of Thrones. You know, 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.640 do you think that that was a particular turning point 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:20.359 for our industry? 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:20.639 Oh? 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.359 Look, I think Wentworth has been really unique in a 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:25.840 way because I think it's punched well above its weight, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.200 Like compared to those shows you mentioned, we're sort of 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:31.680 operating on a fraction of the time, a fraction of 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:36.680 the budget. So yeah, I think it's done exceptionally well. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:40.000 Since its premiere on Foxtel's Soho channel back in twenty thirteen, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:44.600 where Worth has become a global franchise, syndicated around the 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.680 world and a proud recipient and countless awards. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.240 Well, what were your thoughts on Wentworth after watching the 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.840 first series, because you did join in series two. 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.160 I loved it when I first watched it. 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.880 I was really attracted to it because what I loved 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.240 about it was the grittiness of it and also the 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.560 fact that you know, it was largely female driven, and 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.720 it was also it was also unique in that it 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.840 was about women, but women in an environment where they 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.839 were isolated from the men in their lives. So that 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.640 was a completely different look at women and how women 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.880 would behave in the absence of men. 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.640 Well it's interesting though, you know, trying to pitch shows 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.480 all about women used to be very difficult because they 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.120 would always have the studios having a lot of men 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.320 there saying, you know, we need to have more male characters. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.120 But what do you think were your most noticeable changes 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.080 between series one and series two when you came on board. 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.080 Well, I guess the first thing we did was bring 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.680 in the character of Joan Ferguson, because that was a 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.400 character that really appealed to me to bring in the 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.160 notion that she was a psychopath and all that stuff. 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.479 So I mean that was a huge game changer. I 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.120 think that introducing that character that sort of turned everything 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.360 on its head and it kind of gave the show, 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.400 you know, a slightly gothic aspect to it as well, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.000 which I don't think had previous. 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:06.080 So my name's miss Ferguson, but you can call me Governor. 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.560 Were you a fan of the original Prisoner and how 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.280 much did that show and that original run influence this series. 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.119 That's hilarious because people always ask me that and they're 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.320 always shocked to learn that I've never. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:24.160 Actually seen even one episode of Prisoner. You sadistic bitch. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.440 I have quite a production line going Birdsworth, on the booze, Hunt, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.320 on the gambling. Oh you were set up by the 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.200 way Smith. But then I suppose you've already realized that. Now, 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.760 where was I? Oh, yes, Stevens. 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:38.600 I'll be looking after the drugs. 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.640 And when I got this gig, I deliberately then didn't 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.000 watch it because I didn't want to be at all 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.159 influenced by it, and I just wanted to maintain that 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.200 notion of taking a completely fresh look at the characters. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.440 So I just completely did not want to be influenced 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.160 in any way. So yeah, I have never to this 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.599 day still watched an episode of Prisoner at some point 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.080 to go back and have a look and go, oh 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.160 my god, is that what it was about? 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.480 Well, yeah, because there's similar names, you know, like there's 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.760 characters and names of characters that were from Prisoner that 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.520 found themselves in Wentworth. So I always felt like there 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:15.880 had to have been some influence, and. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.440 Indeed there was, but it was it wasn't through me. 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.880 It was through Pete mctire, who was the very first writer. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.960 He wrote the pilot, and he wrote a very large 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.200 number of the episodes in season one and so, and 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.200 Pete was a massive fan of Prisoner, and so he 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.760 was like the depository of everything Prisoner. And you know, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.400 whenever we needed a name for a new character or whatever, 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.080 you know, I would always turn to Pete and say. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.479 Oh, so, you know, who can we use, Like what sort. 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.599 Of Prisoner character would kind of might have some of 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.200 these qualities or so we would That's how we would work. 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:50.599 Just dig it up from the archives. 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.000 Yeah, he's like a hard drive of everything Prisoner. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.599 So well, there was a time where fans were divided 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.760 over Orange is the New Black versus Wentworth. What did 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.880 you think Wentworth's point of difference was from that show? 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:04.920 Definitely tone. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.680 I think I only watched the very first episode of 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.440 Orange is the New Black, and tonally it was quite different. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.960 It kind of trade a fine line between comedy and drama, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:17.880 and I don't think Wentworth. 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.240 I mean, although that's not to say there is no 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:21.360 humor in Wentworth. 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.040 Certainly there is, but I don't think I think it's 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.200 a much darker show than Orange. 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.640 And I guess this is a bit of a tough 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.520 question to ask because you know, we don't want any 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.080 hits put on this person. But who made the decision 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:34.679 for this series to be the last. 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:39.000 I think it was probably a mutual decision. The network 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:44.679 worth thinking of canceling the show earlier, and indeed they did, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.440 but I think there was such a such an outcry 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.120 from the audience that they sort of rethought that and went, oh, 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:52.520 there is. 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:53.800 Still an audience for this show. 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.680 So so yeah, we were really lucky to get that 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.920 last commission of twenty episodes, which has gone to are 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.240 two groups of ten, so this is sort of part 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.040 two of the eighth season, which is why I said 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.440 initially about eight or nine, depending on which way you 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.120 look at it. So yeah, so we knew when we 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.800 got that commission that would indeed be the end of it, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:15.960 and we were really happy to get to that one 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.080 hundred episode mark as well, because it was the first 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.560 show that for Foxtel I've had ever done that many 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.680 episodes of a drama series, and so it felt like 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.360 a really appropriate way to finish. 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:28.880 Yeah, well, I Reckon. 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.040 I signed I Reckon about four different petitions over time, 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:36.040 so I'm assuming that the show had a lot of lives, yes, 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.480 just from being asked to sign those petitions, but you 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.360 never know, there could be a movie. Would you ever 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:41.440 make a Wentworth movie? 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:45.120 I probably wouldn't, but that's not to say others might not. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.440 Yeah, well, you know what things are like these days. 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.680 We get them rebooted, we get them restarted, so there's 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:53.920 different ways to bring it back. But it couldn't come 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:54.440 back without you. 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.760 I'm going to say, well, I think I've probably contributed 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.280 all I possibly could to it, So I think it's 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.640 you know, that's now it's up to the next person 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.000 that take that on. But interestingly enough, though we lost characters, 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.959 we as favorite characters, we as favorite actors playing those roles, 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.520 and yet the show's gravitas never lessened. And if you 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.000 look at what people say on social media, people talk 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.160 about people like yourself being the backbone and staying on 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.280 the show that you, in fact was who we couldn't lose. 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.320 We couldn't lose the good writing. That's been one of 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.640 the great strengths of the show is the writing team. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.320 And Pete has been on the writing team since day one. 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:34.920 And you know, there's a small core of writers on 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.800 the show that you know, have maintained that show and 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:43.200 have been, you know, constantly passionately committed to the show 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.000 and we feel like it's our baby. 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.600 So yeah, absolutely, Well over the eight seasons, which actor 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.360 was the most different do you think from their character? 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.959 I mean, obviously these characters are criminals. 0:09:54.800 --> 0:10:01.760 That's easy. Definitely, Pamela Rave is nothing like Joan Ferguson. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:06.480 It feels great to play such an iconic role, I 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.640 have to say, I mean because of the way I look, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.080 and I don't always look like this, but I've been 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:16.280 casting a fair amount of nasty, powerful people in my time, 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:21.400 and given that Joan Ferguson aka the Freak, is got 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.800 to be one of the most iconic nasty people in 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.840 Australian television. When I was approached about this, I just 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:27.960 I squealed with delight. 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.880 I remember being on Breakfast Radio and interviewing Cecilia Ireland, 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.920 who played Lizzie, and I swear that I was talking 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.600 to Lizzie when I did that interview, like there was 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.280 obviously the character wasn't there, but sort of there was 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.480 some essence there that definitely carried through. I think I 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.560 think she was doing the laundry while she was talking 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.080 to me, and it just sounded like Lizzie was in 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:48.400 the laundry room having a chat. 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.440 That's a bit scary, I know. 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.360 I just what a great character though, absolutely so. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.640 Lizzie's journey from series one to series two. I think 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.000 the main shift is that she goes from really caring 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.000 for the women to actually hatching a plan to make 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:06.800 a change. 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:11.480 Was the decision to kill be because Dannielle Cormack wasn't 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.800 coming back, or what was the decision in that that happening. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.600 No, no, no, it was Look, it was a decision 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.840 that was purely based on the drama and the show. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.760 And we felt at that time that we came back 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.920 with a plan for a further four seasons. So that 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.560 was the end of season four. We had a plan 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.679 for the for a further four seasons to get us 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.400 to season eight, and we knew that we had to 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:40.120 refresh the show because we felt like we had the 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.480 character b was sort of a hero's journey that you know, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.520 she was like a tragic heroine and we had done 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.280 pretty much every single permutation and every single challenge, and 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.920 it was just to continue with that character, we would 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.600 have had to have just wieled in yet another villain 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.520 to you know, to be the antagonist for Bee, and 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.240 we were, I think, in danger of repeating ourselves. So 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.240 when we realized that, we knew that there was only 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.079 one choice that we could possibly make. 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.120 And even though even though it. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.160 Was a really difficult and scary decision to make, because 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.320 considering the popularity of that character obviously by the same token, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.319 we felt that it was dramatically the absolute right decision 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.640 to make, and that we had confidence that we would 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.280 be able to create characters that would be embraced by 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.920 the audience that would replace it and give the show 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.360 that longevity that we wanted from it. 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.959 I don't think anyone was expecting that it was such 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.520 genius television making. 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:41.800 You know. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.160 Also, the other thing that I thought was interesting was 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.040 or was keen to know the answer to, was their 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.920 characters that you created specifically for actors, because I thought 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.600 with Sicred Thornton on the show that might have happened. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.360 You know, actors sounded like they were just wanting to 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.680 get themselves into some of these meaty roles, and so 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.520 they must have been putting their hands up, you know, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.920 were you creating specific characters for actors? 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.680 Well, in that in that case, that's absolutely true. Although 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.400 there was a permutation of that character that that had 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.400 been floating around in some forward planning documents, but it 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.600 was definitely when we knew that Sigrid had agreed to 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.800 come on the show, then we definitely modified that character 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.040 for her with her specifically in mind. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.680 Well, she was a great character, Like even her face 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.880 without any words, Sigrid was just delivering. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:31.680 It was so good. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.439 I think Sony is very well aware that someone was 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.720 out to get her, and I'm pretty sure she knows 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.040 exactly who that is. She has to double check, but 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.120 I think she comes in with a fairly strong sense 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.600 that Liz was taking her own revenge. 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.240 The story arcs are actually so brilliantly activated along the 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.240 entire eight seasons. What was the longest point of trying 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:56.640 to forward plan a story? 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.840 I mean, we actually had at the beginning of every season, 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.320 before we blotted a single episode, we had a massive 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.199 forward planning session where we would figure out in quite 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.200 a lot of detail what we were going to do 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.640 for the entire season, so we knew where it was 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.400 going to end right from the word go. We knew 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.240 in broad strokes each and every character journey for all 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.440 the characters exactly what they were going to do over 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.200 that season. You know what their challenges would be, you 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.720 know who their antagonists would be, all of that. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.200 So that was all extremely. 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.160 Well planned out, and so when we came to plot 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:37.000 the individual episodes, that was much more of really teasing 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.920 out the detail of that story in those scenes. We 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.200 absolutely knew where it was going to all fit into 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:43.960 the grand plan. 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.600 I can imagine that sometimes though that you know, for 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.760 someone like Pamela Raye playing the Freak, you know, there 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.600 was two seasons that Pamela was missing. You know, do 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.480 you end up saying to Pamela, by the way, you're 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.480 coming back, or did you just bury her and then 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.400 wring her up and ask if should do the role later? 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.040 Like how did that? How does that work out? Is 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:01.880 the actor in the loop? 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:02.240 Oh? 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:02.920 Absolutely. 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.240 In fact, when we buried, when we buried Jane Alive, 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.640 I said to Pamela, we will bring you back. We 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.120 need to rest the character for a couple of seasons 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.720 because you know, it was just kind of becoming. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.160 More and more and more heightened. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.760 And we've sort of I think we needed to we 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.280 needed a reset to ground the show again. And so 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.760 but that was always the plan was to rest the 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.600 character for a couple of seasons and then bring her back. 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.840 Having said that, it was like, God knows how we're 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.240 going to figure out a way, a way of you know, 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.080 making this work and making this at all believable. But 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.200 and you know, it was only really being able to 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:46.840 figure that out that allowed us to bring her back. 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.000 Well, I don't want to give anything away from the 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.200 second part of series eight, but it's really clever writing 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.120 that has allowed for this final ten episodes, for her 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.960 character to be there and for it to all make sense. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.200 I think that was really clever because you had Pamela 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.120 back to play the role last year, but was she 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.440 really there or wasn't she You know, that was a 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.440 big mystery. But then she is going to be allowed, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.000 I believe, you know, to play the Freak the way 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.520 we know her for this last ten episodes. 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.080 Absolutely, and that was absolutely all by design because we 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.480 just thought, you know, if we're coming home, we've got 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:25.520 to come home with the Freak in a full stretch. 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.320 Well, who was your favorite character to write for? Because 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.320 I know this is like me asking you to pick 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.240 you know, your favorite children, but surely there's some characters 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:36.160 that stood out for you. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.120 Oh, look, yes it is. It's like going you know, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.320 which is your favorite child. I mean I loved writing 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.440 The Freak, absolutely love writing the Freak, which is you 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.120 know why we wanted to bring her back. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:48.240 I think we all did. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.400 But you know, by the same token, like I just 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.200 love Rita and Ruby, you know when we brought those 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.000 two characters in at the top of season six, Just 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:03.120 love those characters. Murray, you know, fabulous character. We're just 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.960 really blessed. You know that we've we had such a 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.199 cast of amazing actors too, that could actually pull this 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.960 stuff off, because there's one thing to write it, but 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.439 then you've got to find actors that are willing to 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.960 throw themselves into what's being asked of them. 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.160 And we've been so fortunate. 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:19.840 That it's been matched. 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.880 And then you can write something so creative and so amazing, 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.040 but then it can be matched. There wasn't a bad 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.720 I mean you can't say this in other television series, 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.080 but there wasn't a bad character. There wasn't a bad 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:31.480 performance in this entire run. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.120 Exactly. We've been extremely fortunate. 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.119 Was there ever a time where you guys fought in 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.520 the writer's room? Because I also can imagine that these 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.320 characters would be quite sacred to everybody, so I guess 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.800 people would be very passionate. Was there biff ups in 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:45.560 the writer's room? 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:52.120 Look, I would say that we robust discussion was probably 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.800 a key feature of the writer's room because we worked 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.000 together for so long, and you know, these characters are 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.160 all kind of grown with all of us. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.800 We were very much on the same page. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:08.600 So it wasn't like there was bitter disagreement about big issues, 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.320 but we certainly had robust discussion about smaller things. And 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.679 you know that just defending the character, the character's truth 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.040 is always really important, I think, and you know, you 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.680 can do the most outrageous things as long as you 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:24.600 maintain the truth of the character. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.560 And so that's what most of the discussion would be about. 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.560 I think of it from my point of view being 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.560 a viewer, and I can't even remember the time the 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.040 amount of times that I said to myself, you can't 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:37.840 do that as. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.440 Long as it's character truthful. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.000 Yeah, when scripting some of these exciting or dramatic scenes, 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.000 did you get to be on set to watch or 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.720 which have to sort of wait until it was done? 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.119 The good scene that I could talk about was Sally 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.159 ann Upton's performance of Juicy Lucy. You know, with the 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.719 tongue removing scene. One thing to be in a writer's 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.200 room and to put that down to paper, but another 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:58.879 thing to watch it. Are you ever allowed to be 0:18:58.960 --> 0:18:59.840 on set to see them? 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:00.440 Oh? 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.359 Look, absolutely, We could go on to set whenever he 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.720 wanted to, but very infrequently did because unless, you know, 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.560