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Speaker 1: Now we know. The Northern Territory Police Association called for

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Speaker 1: the Police Commissioner Michael Murphy to resign on Friday in

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Speaker 1: the wake of him identifying himself as the individual who'd

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Speaker 1: engaged in improper conduct in hiring a mate in a

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory IKAK report. And it seems those calls have

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Speaker 1: been answered the Chief Minister on Saturday informing the Police

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Speaker 1: Commissioner that he's lost the confidence of the government, giving

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Speaker 1: him the opportunity to now resign. Michael Murphy has been

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Speaker 1: asked to go on leave, effective immediately, with Martin Dole

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Speaker 1: now acting in the top job. Joining me in the

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Speaker 1: studio as a Northern Territory Police Association President Nathan Finn.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Finny, Good morning, Good morning to listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Finny,

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Speaker 1: Obviously the Chief Ministers started the process to terminate the

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Speaker 1: appointment of the Police Commissioner Michael Murphy. We caught up

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Speaker 1: with her a little bit earlier. It sounds a bit

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Speaker 1: more complicated, you know than simply asking him to resign,

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Speaker 1: But what's your reaction to this situation.

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Speaker 2: There is a process and we did make a media

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Speaker 2: statement in Thursday night after a special executive meeting of

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Speaker 2: an Northern Churchy Police Association where we called his integrity

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Speaker 2: into question and also called for his resignation. The government's

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Speaker 2: listened to that. We've had conversations with the government about

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Speaker 2: that as well on Friday and also over the weekend

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Speaker 2: as well, before the decision was made public. This is

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Speaker 2: a decision, the serious decision that required careful consideration, consultation

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Speaker 2: and advice by the government. There's a process that needs

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Speaker 2: to be has to be maintained in this and also

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Speaker 2: the Commissioner's also got the right of obviously for his

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Speaker 2: right of reply as well in response to those allegations.

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Speaker 1: I mean, should the Chief Minister have done this earlier?

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Speaker 1: You know from my discussion with her on the show earlier,

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Speaker 1: we're in a situation where she received that IKQ report,

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Speaker 1: you know, more than a week ago, obviously knew who

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Speaker 1: the person was at the center of these.

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Speaker 2: There's disclosure issues with the IKQ report, and if you're

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Speaker 2: not named in that report or not party to that report,

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Speaker 2: there's obviously offenses in really seen that information part of

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Speaker 2: that report as well. So I believe that there was

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Speaker 2: stuff in process behind that when she did receive that

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Speaker 2: update and there were some things that are working on.

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Speaker 2: But since we called out for his resignation on the

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Speaker 2: Thursday night, things escalated from there and the discussions had place.

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Speaker 1: Finny, what's the response been from members?

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Speaker 2: Ow members are frustrated, Katie, and they're frustrated and angry

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Speaker 2: that they've been failed and their leadership has been failed

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Speaker 2: within the Northern Churchory Police Force. We've seen this time

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Speaker 2: and time again. Our members have been through helen back

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Speaker 2: with commissions over the last a decade or so. It's

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Speaker 2: not acceptable, Katie. It's not acceptable to have this sort

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Speaker 2: of behavior our executive level and it provides our members

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Speaker 2: with a turn of frustration who are just trying to

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Speaker 2: get on and do their job. They don't need this distraction.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, even after the statement went out, you

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Speaker 1: guys said that you no longer had confidence in Michael Murphy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what are members saying about the fact now

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Speaker 1: that the Chief Minister has acted.

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Speaker 2: Members are very much supportive of what's happened and what's

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Speaker 2: going on forward. They've got a few concerns in relation

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Speaker 2: to the other selection processes have been could possibly be tainted.

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Speaker 2: I reassure that people have been promoted. Just put myself

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Speaker 2: in the shoes of if you weren't promoted, you were

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Speaker 2: in that application panel, you weren't promoted, and now you

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Speaker 2: find it this information, how would you feel and how

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Speaker 2: would you feel about that promotion system. That's not the

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Speaker 2: confidence we need and we want our members to say, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're good an equal opportunity to get promoted here and

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Speaker 2: we're on an even playing field, and clearly hasn't been

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Speaker 2: and that's disappointing for our members that have gone through

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Speaker 2: the ranks, done the hard yards to get promoted, to

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Speaker 2: seek promotion, and have that ability to get promoted. They

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Speaker 2: should be placed on the even field and that clearly

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Speaker 2: is not the case.

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Speaker 1: Is it appropriate now that the acting Police Commissioner, Martin

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Speaker 1: Dole was on the panel that same panel in question

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Speaker 1: with the Ikak report.

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Speaker 2: That's something that the information that the Yekak of brief

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Speaker 2: the Chief Minister on. I don't have a decision in

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Speaker 2: relation to who's the acting commissioner, who the Deputy Commissary

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Speaker 2: of Police. We can only provide our advice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess what I'm asking though, is does it

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Speaker 1: provide the confidence that members want?

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Speaker 2: Some members that won't provide confidence at all. Again, he's

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Speaker 2: been as you just said, he's been on the panel.

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Speaker 2: He was on the panel when this decision was made

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Speaker 2: and when the commissioners. Obviously the reports come out rectifying

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Speaker 2: that the commission hasn't acted appropriately. It's asks questions, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and it asks questions, and our members are asking exactly

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Speaker 2: the same questions. What was his involvement in it? Again,

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Speaker 2: I haven't been briefed by the IIQK report, and I

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Speaker 2: don't particularly know what's in the IIKEK report, but the

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Speaker 2: government has that information, and the government's fully aware of

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Speaker 2: that investigation, the outline of that investigation, and they've got

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Speaker 2: the evidence to suggest otherwise if his position was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, I don't have I want to be really clear,

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Speaker 1: I don't have an opinion either way. I'm not part

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Speaker 1: of the police force as to whether you know as

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Speaker 1: to whether Martin Dole acting in the role as the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Commissioner is a good thing or not.

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed Martin on numerous occasions and always found him

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Speaker 1: to be really upfront and an honest, a hard working

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Speaker 1: blog But the you know, I guess from the outside

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Speaker 1: looking in, people are questioning whether it's the appropriate move

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Speaker 1: if that whole recruitment process has been tainted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and definitely something I could work with mister Murphy

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Speaker 2: as well, and doesn't say that what's going on behind

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Speaker 2: closed doors we know about or we have any information

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Speaker 2: or evidence to suggest otherwise. Until this stuff comes out,

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Speaker 2: we don't know. And we're like everyone else in the

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Speaker 2: police force. We have speculations about certain decisions, but unless

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Speaker 2: we've got the evidence to act on it, like we

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Speaker 2: have on this circumstance, we can't act on that. But again,

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Speaker 2: a lot of our police work, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: the work that the NTPA does, is behind closed doors.

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Speaker 2: Ninety percent of our work is behind closed doors and

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Speaker 2: for the benefit of our police members, without naming individual people,

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Speaker 2: without going through a processor. Unless we get to a

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Speaker 2: serious situation like we have, do we come public.

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Speaker 1: Finny, I mean, are we in a situation here where

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Speaker 1: there needs to be a review into other appointments under

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Speaker 1: Michael Murphy?

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Katie, and I'm of that same opinion. I think

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Speaker 2: we alluded to that on the Thursday night as well.

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Speaker 2: That puts speculation into it. There's information out there that's

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Speaker 2: suggested that people had questions, to applications, to questions they

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Speaker 2: were going to ask it, ask an interview. That's not acceptable, Katie.

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Speaker 2: If anyone gets an unfair advantage, that is not detrimental

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Speaker 2: to our whole police force. Now members are quite frustrated

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 1: So that do you reckon it should be a review

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Speaker 1: and inquiry. How deep does this need to go? Well?

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Speaker 1: How deep? Yeah? I mean how concerned? Are you buy it?

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Speaker 2: Our members are concerned. It's not just about me being concerned,

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Speaker 2: it's about we represent our members and our members are

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Speaker 2: concerned about that. They want to see that anyone held

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Speaker 2: responsible who has done something untoward in the selection process.

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Speaker 2: We know that this has happened. This is not just

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Speaker 2: new to this commissioner. It's new to previous commissions. We've

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Speaker 2: seen this as well, where there's been jobs for favored people.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't be that case. It should be all merit based.

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Speaker 1: So is that something that people within the force feel

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Speaker 1: is happening.

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Speaker 2: They don't. They know that, Caddy, and they tell us

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Speaker 2: that on a regular basis. They feel aggrieved by the

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Speaker 2: process and they want to have an even playing field

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Speaker 2: and it shouldn't be that. It shouldn't be determined to

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Speaker 2: your relationship with a commissioned officer. Whether you get a

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Speaker 2: job or not, it should be about your ability to

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Speaker 2: perform the job that we need to do and their

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Speaker 2: merit in that selection process.

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Speaker 1: Finny, where to from here.

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Speaker 2: That's a very good question. There's a long process that

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Speaker 2: goes out with the removal of the Police Commission and

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Speaker 2: the cancer of his contract in the government, So that's

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Speaker 2: something that the government's undertaking. At the moment. There'll be

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Speaker 2: a selection process, no doubt, has to.

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Speaker 1: Sort of said this morning, you know. It's more that

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Speaker 1: they're going through the termination process at the moment. They're

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Speaker 1: not even going through like looking at the recruitment process yet,

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Speaker 1: which then kind of makes me question how long that's

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Speaker 1: going to take until.

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Speaker 2: You can finalize It's not going to be weeks, Caddy.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely going to be months to see this and

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Speaker 2: that's going to provide further unstability to the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: Police Force and our members. Our members are doing a

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Speaker 2: remarkable job out there, Caddy, under some adverse pressure done.

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Speaker 2: The job that they're doing is unbelievable, and they're maintaining

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Speaker 2: their professionalism. They're trying to be upbeat about their policing,

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Speaker 2: but it's hard to be not distracted by what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Well, Phinny, I think the really frustrating thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: even this morning, I'm reading through the press releases that

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Speaker 1: have come through on the weekend of the work that

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police have done on the ground. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm reading about a situation in Alice Springs where a

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Speaker 1: police vehicle's been rammed allegedly and I can't and I can.

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Speaker 2: Speak to you about that. I spoke to the member

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Speaker 2: involved yesterday about that. He was a shift sergeant Ella Springs.

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Speaker 2: He went to help his members out with a style

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Speaker 2: of motor vehicle. He confronted the style and motivehicle at

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Speaker 2: which point in time he's seen them driving out towards him.

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Speaker 2: They were doing between sixty and eighty kilomns an hour,

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Speaker 2: where usually they go to and swerve the last minute,

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Speaker 2: this car run straight him. There was an intention there

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Speaker 2: to kill him and he is now suffering because of that.

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Speaker 2: The airbags have been deployed in the car, the car

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Speaker 2: has been written off. It's horrendous that our members are

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Speaker 2: being faced with this, and being faced with this on

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Speaker 2: a daily basis. This is not i Ellis Springs. But again,

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Speaker 2: this is another incident Alice Springs that raises very serious concerns.

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Speaker 2: This member had the opportunity, if he had the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to take it lethal force, I would back you one

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Speaker 2: hundred and ten percent.

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Speaker 1: I mean the thing is so now, you know, on

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Speaker 1: a daylight today, we're obviously having these discussions about the

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Speaker 1: police commissioner and they need to be had. This needs

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Speaker 1: to get sorted out because you need to make sure

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Speaker 1: that you've got leadership and that happens right from the top.

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Speaker 1: But we're in a situation where we're talking about that

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Speaker 1: we have been for the last week. All the while

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Speaker 1: you've got police officers on the ground trying to do

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Speaker 1: their jobs. I mean, like, how do we continue to

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Speaker 1: stuff this up when it comes to leadership within the force.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Kettie and members don't have the luxury of stepping

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Speaker 2: back and going hang on, I just want to take

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Speaker 2: all this in. What's going on. They're out there twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours day, seven days a week, and our members

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Speaker 2: are asking exactly the same question that you asked, how

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Speaker 2: do we get this so wrong so often? And that's

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Speaker 2: that's not acceptable to our members. It's not except to

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Speaker 2: our police force. And to guide our police force, we

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Speaker 2: need a strong leader that stands up for our members,

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Speaker 2: supports our members and make sure that they know and

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Speaker 2: place government. I notice as well that hey, I'm here

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Speaker 2: to do the job of police commissioner. I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to be interfered with by the judicial system or the

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Speaker 2: political games that needs to be played. He needs to

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Speaker 2: be won for the commissioner. But the Commissioner of police

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Speaker 2: needs to be a strong person that leads the police

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Speaker 2: force without fear of favor or ill will of anyone.

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Speaker 1: Finny, what else needs to happen to rebuild the confidence

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Speaker 1: within the Northern Territory Police Force right now? And in

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Speaker 1: terms of rebuilding the confidence in leadership, there's a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of work that needs to be done. It's clear that

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Speaker 2: we're lacking leadership at that top level of the police force.

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Speaker 2: We've seen that at over a number of times and

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Speaker 2: a number of decisions have been made. Unfortunately, this situation

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Speaker 2: has shown that they believe they're bigger than the decisions

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Speaker 2: that are being made and they're making decisions based on

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Speaker 2: their personal opinions.

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Speaker 1: And that's the only I mean, does that go for

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Speaker 1: all the executives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've seen this and we've come out, it's been

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Speaker 2: publicly named now that this is happening at the top level.

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Speaker 2: So what else is happening within that internal upper level

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Speaker 2: of the Northern Territory Police Force. And this is so

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Speaker 2: if there is this happening at all levels across the

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Speaker 2: Northern Churchy Police Force, there's something that needs to happen

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 1: And so at this point in time, the next step

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Speaker 1: do you think it is a review?

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Speaker 2: They need to review that. They need to have an

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Speaker 2: investigation into what's happening and how widespread this is. If

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Speaker 2: that leads to an inquiry into the police force or

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Speaker 2: a royal commission into the police force, so be it.

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Speaker 2: It needs to happen. Our members need that trust within

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Speaker 2: this system to make sure that they're supported to do

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Speaker 2: the best possible job they can with the police.

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Speaker 1: I mean a royal commission is a big call in

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Speaker 1: the sense that they cost a lot of money and

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Speaker 1: waste a lot of time.

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Speaker 2: Definitely not calling for it, but if there's evidence there

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Speaker 2: suggest that from the initial investigation, then so be it.

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Speaker 2: Make it happen. That's the thing that we need to do.

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Speaker 2: And the inquiry into the police force, because our members

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Speaker 2: will tell you this has been happening for years and

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Speaker 2: everything else, why do we put up with it? And

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Speaker 2: if it's happening for years, if we've got evidence to

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Speaker 2: suggest that it is happening, why aren't we dealing with it?

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Speaker 2: And we need to tackle it head on, Katie.

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Speaker 1: So an investigation at this point in time or a

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Speaker 1: look into a review into us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, and our members deserve that our members deserve

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Speaker 2: to know, Hey, did I not get promoted because there

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Speaker 2: was biased on the panel? Or did I get promoted

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Speaker 2: because I was the best possible advocant and the best

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Speaker 2: possible person for that position. And unfortunately that's put this

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Speaker 2: whole Thing's put doubt into that situation, and I feel

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Speaker 2: sorry for those members that have been promoted in that time.

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Speaker 2: But again it provides speculation that the Commissioner's released in

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Speaker 2: his statement to say I've promoted all these people within

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Speaker 2: this timeframe, Well that puts speculation onto those positions as well,

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Speaker 2: because he just said I've done something wrong with this process.

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Speaker 2: But again he's highlighting that all these people have been promoted.

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Speaker 2: So are those permissions? Are those promotions? Yeah? Going to

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Speaker 2: stand by all means they should be. But again there

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Speaker 2: needs to be reviewing to what happened in those processes

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Speaker 2: and if it was above board, that's fine, but again

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Speaker 2: it's not going to alleviate the members' frustrations with what's

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Speaker 2: going on. If they didn't get promoted, or if they

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Speaker 2: were applicants that did get promoted, it still provides a frustration.

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Speaker 2: Then we need to make sure that integrity of those

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Speaker 2: promotional systems are intact and to make sure that flows

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Speaker 2: onto the rest of our members to know that they've

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Speaker 2: got the confidence in the leadership of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: Police Force.

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Speaker 1: Well, Nathan Finn, President of the Northern Territory Police Association,

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Speaker 1: we will leave it there as always good to catch

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Speaker 1: up with you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katy, and yeah to all our men and

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Speaker 2: women out there that are doing it tough and struggling

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Speaker 2: with these decisions and struggling what's going on in the background.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you maintain your professionalism, act within the best

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Speaker 2: possible job role that you can do, and make sure

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Speaker 2: you put your best foot forward because we've got your

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Speaker 2: back and we'll make sure that we've support you in

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Speaker 2: whatever we can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good stuff, Finny, thank you, Thanks very much for

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Speaker 1: your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Katy,