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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers. Now. My name is

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Coulson, parenting author, and I'm Experts plus, the

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Speaker 1: dad to six kids, six daughters in fact, and I'm

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Speaker 1: joined by Luke and Susie, your husband and wife radio

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Speaker 1: team with three young boys. And today, well, it's life

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Speaker 1: in the transitions around the country. Many people, many children

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Speaker 1: at least, are back at school or they're heading back

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Speaker 1: sometime soon, and it's causing some anxiety and concern for

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Speaker 1: some people.

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Speaker 2: Justin we get the hint that maybe some things are

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Speaker 2: going to return to the way they were and some

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Speaker 2: restrictions will be gradually lifted, and you would think we

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Speaker 2: would be excited, but I've read articles and I've had

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Speaker 2: conversations where people are starting to feel nervous and uneasy

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Speaker 2: about going back because it's more change.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing parents that are really worried about how their

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Speaker 1: children are go to readjust.

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Speaker 3: To move back into life as normal.

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Speaker 1: And I also hearing parents who are saying, Ah, I

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Speaker 1: know that we're unusual, but we're kind of liking this.

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Speaker 1: We wouldn't mind if this just kept going for a while,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's great if that's you. But I

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Speaker 1: think that the more common response is, yeah, we've got

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Speaker 1: children who, for one reason or another may really struggle

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Speaker 1: to go back to school. Maybe they've got anxiety, perhaps

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Speaker 1: they've got some sort of an underlying health issue, or

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Speaker 1: perhaps they've only just gotten into the routine of school

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Speaker 1: and then it stopped and now we've got to try

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Speaker 1: and get them going again. And they're those kids that

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Speaker 1: are a little bit slow to warm up.

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Speaker 3: They struggle to get into this.

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Speaker 2: The grown ups are a little bit slow to warm up

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: I think that you're probably right, Luke, Yeah, there are.

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Speaker 2: So as we anticipate this. It doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 2: massively logical for me that we have high levels of

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Speaker 2: uncertainty and concern over going back to what we actually

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Speaker 2: have always stated we wanted to go back to. Why

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Speaker 2: is change so scary in that regard that even if

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Speaker 2: it's changed to what is good, we can sometimes strugg

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 1: The circumstances just won't be the same. And everybody seems

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Speaker 1: to be on board with that. I think that's part

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Speaker 1: of it. There's that little bit of fear, what if

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Speaker 1: there's another outbreak. What if this gets passed along. What

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Speaker 1: if we haven't really crushed it. What if the curve

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Speaker 1: is only flat right now, but it's going you know,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be this second wave. There's all of

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Speaker 1: this uncertainty, and let's be really clear about what anxiety is.

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Speaker 1: Anxiety is our brain doing what it's supposed to do

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Speaker 1: and saying there is something for me to be concerned

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Speaker 1: about in the future, because I need to protect myself,

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Speaker 1: I need to protect the body that I'm being carried

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Speaker 1: around in. So it's a normal and healthy response to

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Speaker 1: anything uncertain to.

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Speaker 3: Be a little bit anxious about it.

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Speaker 1: The problem that we have is anxiety sometimes becomes dysfunctional

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Speaker 1: and it interferes with that capacity to do normal things

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Speaker 1: like going to school or going to the shops or

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Speaker 1: going back to work. And obviously there are pretty good

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Speaker 1: reasons for it. The big challenge that we've got is

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Speaker 1: working out how to really manage that anxiety for our

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Speaker 1: children and for ourselves.

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Speaker 4: And that's the thing, isn't it, because it is both

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Speaker 4: of us. I know, we're still staring down getting our

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Speaker 4: children back to school, and there is that little bit

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Speaker 4: of nerves because the twins have really enjoyed doing their

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Speaker 4: education at home. Our eldest hasn't, so he'll be running

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Speaker 4: to the school gate. But for me, I am nervous

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Speaker 4: about how the twins will go transitioning back, but then

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Speaker 4: also me as well, because it's going to be another

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Speaker 4: significant change of routine. So it is I guess, are

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Speaker 4: there preemptive things we can do to help us when

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Speaker 4: those changes are coming.

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Speaker 1: There's a handful of things that are worth talking about here.

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Speaker 1: The first is that for the majority of people, majority

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Speaker 1: of children, I don't think there's going to be anything

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Speaker 1: major to be concerned about. Most of them will transition

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Speaker 1: back fairly comfortably. There will be some, though, that have

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Speaker 1: some really big concerns. Most of those I would imagine

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Speaker 1: will be children who already have some kind of a

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Speaker 1: predisposition to be anxious, or have some sort of an

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Speaker 1: underlying medical concern which makes them really nervous about being outside.

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Speaker 1: There's another group as well that I'm a little bit

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Speaker 1: concerned about, and that's the group who have had parents

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Speaker 1: who have really transmitted to them the contagion of concern.

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Speaker 1: That is parents who are saying, now make sure you

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Speaker 1: wash your hands, make sure that you cough into your elbow,

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Speaker 1: make sure that you don't touch anything, make sure you

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Speaker 1: stay away from surfaces, make sure you stay away from

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Speaker 1: people by at least two meters.

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Speaker 3: All of those things are important. We're supposed to teach our.

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Speaker 1: Children to do that, but if we are too over

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Speaker 1: the top about it, our children will start to really

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Speaker 1: feel anxious, unnecessarily because you know, they've got to get

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Speaker 1: on with their lives. I had a conversation with her

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Speaker 1: mum just recently. We were doing some I was doing

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Speaker 1: some one on one counseling with some people, and her

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Speaker 1: three year old was exhibiting really significant signs of anxiety

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Speaker 1: around hand washing, around being near people, around trying to

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Speaker 1: you know, just didn't want to interact with anyone because

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Speaker 1: she was scared that she was going to get or

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Speaker 1: give coronavirus. Now that's not normal or functional behavior, and

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Speaker 1: unfortunately it can only come from one person, and that's

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Speaker 1: a well intentioned parent whose anxiety has been caught by

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Speaker 1: her little one. So as parents, we've got to kind

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Speaker 1: of normalize things again. The best way we do that, Susie,

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Speaker 1: to move to the heart of your question, is we

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Speaker 1: let our kids know school's going back next week, or

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever it is depending on the state that

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Speaker 1: you're in and the grade and all that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: There's so many other factors here, but essentially, once we've

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Speaker 1: got some level of predictability and we have some sense

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Speaker 1: of what's going to be happening for each child in

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Speaker 1: each grade and each state and so on, we let

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Speaker 1: them know in a really simple, matter of fact way,

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Speaker 1: it's time to head back to school next week or

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Speaker 1: whenever it is. When you go to school, these are

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Speaker 1: going to be the rules. You know, parents aren't going

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Speaker 1: to be allowed to bring you into the classroom anymore

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Speaker 1: because parents have to stay outside because of coronavirus. But

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Speaker 1: we're told that you'll be just fine, and all you

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Speaker 1: need to do is listen to the teachers. We want

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Speaker 1: to downplay the risks. We want to make sure they're

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Speaker 1: taking basic precautions and not let them catch our concern.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and it's that balance that we constantly have

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Speaker 2: to roll as a parent between wanting to educate, inform,

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Speaker 2: and equip our children to respond to circumstances well without

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Speaker 2: over playing the drama so as to create the concern

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Speaker 2: that we're worried they might have. And so it's a

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Speaker 2: balance that we go through whenever there's a big disaster,

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Speaker 2: whenever there's a major news breakout. You know, how much

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Speaker 2: do we tell them? How much do we not? But

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Speaker 2: at the same point, I thank God literally for children

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Speaker 2: entertainers and people that actually can pass on and educate

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Speaker 2: our children with messages on stuff like this.

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Speaker 3: It diffuses it so well.

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Speaker 1: You know, yes, short answer, yes they do. I want

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Speaker 1: to highlight that it's not just big news items and

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Speaker 1: global pandemics that cause this though. It's being at the

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Speaker 1: park with your toddler and watching them try to climb

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Speaker 1: to the top of the slippery dip for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Our anxiety can be overpowering then as well, and if

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Speaker 1: we're not careful, we'll run over and we'll offer them

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Speaker 1: all sorts of support and help and assistance to get

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Speaker 1: them to the top, but we'll take them down because no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you're not quite big enough for that yet.

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Speaker 3: Or whatever it might be.

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Speaker 1: It's the same typical reaction, whether you're in the park

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Speaker 1: or you're dealing with a pandemic. Parents diving in and

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Speaker 1: trying to protect their children with the very best of

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Speaker 1: intentions sometime times actually creates a level of anxiety in

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Speaker 1: the children. That leads to longer term dysfunctions. So if

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Speaker 1: my child senses that I'm anxious about something, they learn

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Speaker 1: to be anxious about it themselves. When we see them

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Speaker 1: being anxious about it, we become anxious about their anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and we see this upward spiral of anxiety that we

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Speaker 1: actually cause by being anxious in the first place. Our kids,

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Speaker 1: if they're feeling secure, they're going to naturally be comfortable

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Speaker 1: with stepping out of our stepping outside our reach and

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Speaker 1: into the unknown, knowing that they can always step back

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Speaker 1: to us. Our job, therefore, is to be that confident

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Speaker 1: place for them. And I know that some people are

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Speaker 1: listening to me say this and screaming at the speakers, saying,

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Speaker 1: but we can't be confident. We don't know, and what

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Speaker 1: if it's contagious, or what if the kids are contagious

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Speaker 1: in our carrier? Is there's so much we don't know.

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Speaker 1: I acknowledge that the advice from the best epidemiologists and

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Speaker 1: the best health experts around the world is that our

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Speaker 1: children should be okay, and if you're not okay with it,

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Speaker 1: they don't send them. I guess that's really the message

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Speaker 1: that I would say, but if you are sending your

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Speaker 1: kids back to school and taking those steps, don't fill

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Speaker 1: them with anxiety, send them with confidence, send them with assurance,

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Speaker 1: and let them know that when they're there, there's just

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Speaker 1: a couple of basic things that they need to do,

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Speaker 1: just so that everybody's safe, and downplay it in the

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Speaker 1: same way that I'm even downplaying it as I'm saying it.

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Speaker 1: Why Because if there's concern, then there's going to be chaos,

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Speaker 1: and there's going to be crying, and there's going to

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Speaker 1: be all sorts of things that make us question everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on and lead to problematic responses in our

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Speaker 1: children that leads them being unable to function effectively.

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Speaker 4: So learning to control our own anxious responses is going

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Speaker 4: to help everybody else in our family.

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Speaker 1: That's a really short version of it. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why it took me so long, but yes.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be the next doc Dustin Colson, Justin.

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Speaker 4: We appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Hope it helps.

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Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed the podcast and found it helpful, please,

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Speaker 1: if you wouldn't mind, go to Apple Podcasts. This is

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Speaker 1: where we kind to get to reach more people. If

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Speaker 1: you can go to Apple Podcasts and leave a rating

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Speaker 1: and a review. Well, it's those reviews that help people

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Speaker 1: to get access to the podcast, they find it, and

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Speaker 1: therefore they get to have happier families, like hopefully you're

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Speaker 1: getting because you've been listening to the podcast and feeling

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Speaker 1: like your family's getting happier.

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Speaker 3: I really appreciated Melli Fluity who.

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Speaker 1: Said it's a wonderful pairing resource Doctor Justin Colson's podcast, books.

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Speaker 3: Or videos, online articles, etc.

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Speaker 1: The list goes on such wonderful resources for parents who

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Speaker 1: want to encourage positivity and happiness using the latest evidence.

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Speaker 1: He communicates ideas in a way that is easy to

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Speaker 1: understand and with the respect for how hard parenting can be.

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Speaker 1: Definitely a great place to start if you're feeling a

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Speaker 1: need to make some changes. Thank you so much, Melli Fluity,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you diving in there and leaving that review.

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Speaker 1: If you like more information on how I can help,

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Speaker 1: visit happy families dot com dot a U, I'll go

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Speaker 1: to my Facebook page Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families