Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest
Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Wednesday,
Speaker 2: the twenty sixth of July.
Speaker 3: I'm Zara Seidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski.
Speaker 2: The federal government has announced plans to give eligible casual
Speaker 2: workers a pathway to permanent employment.
Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of casual workers across Australia.
Speaker 4: Could soon be in line for similar benefits to those
Speaker 4: in permanent positions. For people who want security, this gives
Speaker 4: them a way to be able to do it, but.
Speaker 2: Not everyone is stoked about the proposal.
Speaker 4: There's already a statutory pathway to permanency for casual employees.
Speaker 4: So what is tony Ber actually trying to do?
Speaker 2: Will let you know what the government is trying to
Speaker 2: achieve and by the opposition and some businesses are opposed
Speaker 2: to the change. In today's Deep Dive, but first Sam
Speaker 2: what's making headlines.
Speaker 3: Two men have been charged with sexually touching festival goers
Speaker 3: at Splendor in the Grass. A forty three year old
Speaker 3: and forty year old were both charged and granted conditional bail.
Speaker 3: Please said attendee safety at the Byron Bay Festival was
Speaker 3: their number one priority over the weekend, describing crowds as
Speaker 3: well behaved.
Speaker 2: Overall, fifty percent of Australians are being targeted by scams
Speaker 2: every week. That's according to new data from consumer group Choice.
Speaker 2: The survey also found that nine out of ten people
Speaker 2: have come across at least one suspected scam in the
Speaker 2: past year. A recent h roable c report revealed that
Speaker 2: Australians lost three point one billion dollars to scams last year.
Speaker 2: That was up eighty percent from the year before.
Speaker 3: TikTok has announced a new text only post function, as
Speaker 3: the video stream app looks to compete with Twitter's ex
Speaker 3: rebrand and Meta's recently launched platform Threads. The app says
Speaker 3: the new feature will allow users another way to express themselves,
Speaker 3: with the choice to post photos, videos, or text. We
Speaker 3: spent our whole episode talking about threads. I'll put the
Speaker 3: link in today's show notes.
Speaker 2: And the good news the government has announced a twenty
Speaker 2: million dollar boost for Olympic and Paralympic competitors ahead of
Speaker 2: Paris twenty twenty four Paralympics. Australian President Jock O'Callahan said
Speaker 2: the boost means Paralympic athletes can direct their focus to
Speaker 2: training and qualifying for the games, quote, knowing they have
Speaker 2: the backing of the nation behind them to get them there. Samuel, Yes,
Speaker 2: what was your first casual job.
Speaker 3: It was a summer job working for Waverley Council. How Yeah,
Speaker 3: I was sixteen.
Speaker 2: That's undly you were trying to make it legal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I was sixteen. It was handing out
Speaker 3: condoms for Waverley Council at These and South Beaches in Sydney.
Speaker 3: Hadn't kissed a girl yet, but was heading out. They
Speaker 3: came with lollipops as well, Zara, did you hand out
Speaker 3: any contraceptives when you're a teenager?
Speaker 2: Only inflatable for me? Seriously, I was handing out those
Speaker 2: big flamingos that go in the I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think they're a bit cheggy now, But there was definitely
Speaker 2: a time and a place that everybody wanted to take
Speaker 2: those to any body of water that they had access to.
Speaker 3: Those like huge things.
Speaker 2: So I don't think either of those two jobs were
Speaker 2: going to ever lead to permanent jobs for us At
Speaker 2: that time we were both students at school. But there
Speaker 2: are a lot of Australian who are working casual jobs,
Speaker 2: but they're working them with the frequency and the cadence
Speaker 2: of what would otherwise be a permanent job.
Speaker 3: That feels very familiar that kind of model. Yeah, We've
Speaker 3: both had lots of friends over the years who've done
Speaker 3: exactly that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so the government's proposal, and the reason why we're
Speaker 2: talking about casual work today is that the government is
Speaker 2: actually proposing that there should be a pathway for those
Speaker 2: casual employees to become permanent employees. And it's garnered support
Speaker 2: from the unions, but there's been a fair bit of
Speaker 2: opposition from the Coalition and also from some industry groups.
Speaker 3: So what would the changes actually do.
Speaker 2: Well, I think before I go to what the proposed
Speaker 2: change actually is, I think that we need to just
Speaker 2: set out who we're talking about. As I said, we're
Speaker 2: not talking about URI and those examples because we weren't
Speaker 2: working five days a week in the same job, you know,
Speaker 2: for months and month exactly. So just over a fifth
Speaker 2: of all workers in Australia, so that's roughly two point
Speaker 2: five million people are casual employees. Casuals are most common
Speaker 2: in retail, in hospitality, agriculture and the arts industries. But
Speaker 2: actually a third of casuals work full time hours.
Speaker 3: That's higher than I thought it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's the demographic that the government is looking
Speaker 2: at at the moment, and Employment Minister Tony Burke is
Speaker 2: saying that this proposal is aimed at closing what he
Speaker 2: calls a loophole that's leaving people stuck as casuals when
Speaker 2: they're actually working permanent, regular hours. So to get back
Speaker 2: to your question, the government's proposed changes would give around
Speaker 2: eight hundred and fifty thousand eligible workers access to the
Speaker 2: same entitlements that permanent employees receive. So when we think
Speaker 2: about permanent employees, they get annual leave, they get sick leave,
Speaker 2: they get careers leave, and they also get things like
Speaker 2: a notice of termination.
Speaker 3: Periods, so you can't get told you don't have a
Speaker 3: job and not be able to come to work the
Speaker 3: next day.
Speaker 2: No, but that's what casual workers face, so they can
Speaker 2: lose their employment without notice and Employment Minister Tony Burke
Speaker 2: says that his proposal would actually provide security for casuals
Speaker 2: who want it.
Speaker 4: Your rent's not casual, your bills aren't casual. Paying for
Speaker 4: the groceries or other members of the household, none of
Speaker 4: those expenses are casual.
Speaker 2: But the proposal is that everyone would be forced to
Speaker 2: become a permanent employee. Employees would still be able to
Speaker 2: make that choice.
Speaker 3: You've just rattled off all those benefits to what happens
Speaker 3: if you become a permanent employee, So why would someone
Speaker 3: remain a casual employee.
Speaker 2: Casuals often get an extra pay loading, which can be
Speaker 2: around twenty five percent, to compensate for their lack of
Speaker 2: job security and the lack of entitlements that we just
Speaker 2: spoke about. Although I do think that it is important
Speaker 2: to say not everyone does get that loading, and especially
Speaker 2: not that full twenty five percent, and not all casuals
Speaker 2: earn more than permanent employees with similar skills. Advocates have
Speaker 2: actually argued that in some circumstances, despite that loading, some
Speaker 2: casuals might still overall end up getting paid three to
Speaker 2: four dollars less per hour than permanent employees with similar skills.
Speaker 3: Zara put these changes in a bit of context for
Speaker 3: me politically, why is the government making this move now?
Speaker 2: So, until recently Australia didn't actually have a legal definition
Speaker 2: of what casual employment actually was, and that changed after
Speaker 2: there were two recent court cases. And in those court cases,
Speaker 2: judges ruled that two employees who had consistent work arrangements
Speaker 2: couldn't actually be considered casual and that they were entitled
Speaker 2: to paid leave, so they were entitled to the same
Speaker 2: thing that a permanent employee would be. So this prompted
Speaker 2: the former Morrison government to create a legal definition in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, which the Albanezi government claims led to
Speaker 2: a loophole that means that not enough people are transitioning
Speaker 2: from casual to permanent employment and that that pathway isn't
Speaker 2: working as intended.
Speaker 3: Okay, So now the government's made this announcement, what's the
Speaker 3: response been like.
Speaker 2: So it's just been announced this week, but I mean,
Speaker 2: straight off the bat, the Australian Council of Trade Unions,
Speaker 2: who would naturally have some fair alignment with the Labor
Speaker 2: Party welcomed the government's plans and said that it'll ensure
Speaker 2: greater security for casual ACTU Secretary Sally McManus has said
Speaker 2: in the past that too many casuals are casuals in
Speaker 2: name only.
Speaker 4: Surely, after two years of the pandemic, when we saw
Speaker 4: essential workers who were classified as casuals doing essential work
Speaker 4: day in day out, who did not even have sickly,
Speaker 4: they deserve this.
Speaker 3: Okay, what about opposition to the policy, Well.
Speaker 2: There's been political opposition and then there has been business
Speaker 2: or employer opposition. So taking the business opposition first, the
Speaker 2: Australian Industry Group, which represents employers so not employees, has
Speaker 2: said that employers will be alarmed at what it called
Speaker 2: a radical proposal, and it's said that the real risk
Speaker 2: is that employees will be laid off. The opposition so
Speaker 2: the Coalition accused the government of deliberately creating significant uncertainty
Speaker 2: for both businesses and casual workers. Shadow Employment Minister Michaylia
Speaker 2: Cash claimed the government's proposal would actually encourage businesses to
Speaker 2: give casual fewer hours. So she's arguing that it would
Speaker 2: be the opposite of an incentive for an employer, and
Speaker 2: that that could lead to the layoff of casual workers.
Speaker 2: Cash actually told TDA and I quote her here that
Speaker 2: labor primarily opposes casual work because they find it more
Speaker 2: difficult to unionize this workforce. So clearly lots of opposing
Speaker 2: views on this, and I imagine that it'll come down
Speaker 2: to the cross bench and where they fall on this
Speaker 2: issue to see how it progresses through Parliament.
Speaker 3: So we reported this story to our audience on Instagram
Speaker 3: and in the comments section, there was some strong views
Speaker 3: that were coming through what was kind of the sentiment
Speaker 3: of the audience the.
Speaker 2: Flavor Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that this is
Speaker 2: definitely one that has our audience divided. I think on
Speaker 2: the one hand, some people were saying this could help
Speaker 2: people and casual workers. Someone said quote universities are notorious
Speaker 2: for the casualization of their more recent staff. But there
Speaker 2: are also a few comments from casual work who would
Speaker 2: choose to stay casual. One person said the annual pay
Speaker 2: is still so low that losing the loading might mean
Speaker 2: I couldn't cover rent and bills. I think it's worth
Speaker 2: repeating that your circumstance will dictate how you think about
Speaker 2: this policy, because some casuals will get that loading others won't,
Speaker 2: so it'll be really interesting to see how many people
Speaker 2: take up this offer from the government if and when
Speaker 2: it passes through Parliament.
Speaker 3: That is all for today's podcast, but if you've got
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