1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Wednesday, 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: the twenty sixth of July. 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 3: I'm Zara Seidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski. 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 2: The federal government has announced plans to give eligible casual 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: workers a pathway to permanent employment. 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of casual workers across Australia. 13 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 4: Could soon be in line for similar benefits to those 14 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 4: in permanent positions. For people who want security, this gives 15 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 4: them a way to be able to do it, but. 16 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: Not everyone is stoked about the proposal. 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 4: There's already a statutory pathway to permanency for casual employees. 18 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 4: So what is tony Ber actually trying to do? 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: Will let you know what the government is trying to 20 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: achieve and by the opposition and some businesses are opposed 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: to the change. In today's Deep Dive, but first Sam 22 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 2: what's making headlines. 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 3: Two men have been charged with sexually touching festival goers 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: at Splendor in the Grass. A forty three year old 25 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 3: and forty year old were both charged and granted conditional bail. 26 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 3: Please said attendee safety at the Byron Bay Festival was 27 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: their number one priority over the weekend, describing crowds as 28 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 3: well behaved. 29 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: Overall, fifty percent of Australians are being targeted by scams 30 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 2: every week. That's according to new data from consumer group Choice. 31 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: The survey also found that nine out of ten people 32 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: have come across at least one suspected scam in the 33 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: past year. A recent h roable c report revealed that 34 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: Australians lost three point one billion dollars to scams last year. 35 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: That was up eighty percent from the year before. 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 3: TikTok has announced a new text only post function, as 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: the video stream app looks to compete with Twitter's ex 38 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: rebrand and Meta's recently launched platform Threads. The app says 39 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 3: the new feature will allow users another way to express themselves, 40 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: with the choice to post photos, videos, or text. We 41 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 3: spent our whole episode talking about threads. I'll put the 42 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 3: link in today's show notes. 43 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: And the good news the government has announced a twenty 44 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: million dollar boost for Olympic and Paralympic competitors ahead of 45 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 2: Paris twenty twenty four Paralympics. Australian President Jock O'Callahan said 46 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: the boost means Paralympic athletes can direct their focus to 47 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: training and qualifying for the games, quote, knowing they have 48 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 2: the backing of the nation behind them to get them there. Samuel, Yes, 49 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: what was your first casual job. 50 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 3: It was a summer job working for Waverley Council. How Yeah, 51 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: I was sixteen. 52 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: That's undly you were trying to make it legal. 53 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I was sixteen. It was handing out 54 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 3: condoms for Waverley Council at These and South Beaches in Sydney. 55 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 3: Hadn't kissed a girl yet, but was heading out. They 56 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 3: came with lollipops as well, Zara, did you hand out 57 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: any contraceptives when you're a teenager? 58 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 2: Only inflatable for me? Seriously, I was handing out those 59 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: big flamingos that go in the I don't know. I 60 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: think they're a bit cheggy now, But there was definitely 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: a time and a place that everybody wanted to take 62 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: those to any body of water that they had access to. 63 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 3: Those like huge things. 64 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: So I don't think either of those two jobs were 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: going to ever lead to permanent jobs for us At 66 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: that time we were both students at school. But there 67 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: are a lot of Australian who are working casual jobs, 68 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: but they're working them with the frequency and the cadence 69 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: of what would otherwise be a permanent job. 70 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: That feels very familiar that kind of model. Yeah, We've 71 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 3: both had lots of friends over the years who've done 72 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: exactly that. Yeah. 73 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: And so the government's proposal, and the reason why we're 74 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: talking about casual work today is that the government is 75 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: actually proposing that there should be a pathway for those 76 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: casual employees to become permanent employees. And it's garnered support 77 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: from the unions, but there's been a fair bit of 78 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: opposition from the Coalition and also from some industry groups. 79 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: So what would the changes actually do. 80 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think before I go to what the proposed 81 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: change actually is, I think that we need to just 82 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: set out who we're talking about. As I said, we're 83 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: not talking about URI and those examples because we weren't 84 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: working five days a week in the same job, you know, 85 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 2: for months and month exactly. So just over a fifth 86 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: of all workers in Australia, so that's roughly two point 87 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: five million people are casual employees. Casuals are most common 88 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 2: in retail, in hospitality, agriculture and the arts industries. But 89 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,799 Speaker 2: actually a third of casuals work full time hours. 90 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 3: That's higher than I thought it was. 91 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's the demographic that the government is looking 92 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: at at the moment, and Employment Minister Tony Burke is 93 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: saying that this proposal is aimed at closing what he 94 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: calls a loophole that's leaving people stuck as casuals when 95 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: they're actually working permanent, regular hours. So to get back 96 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 2: to your question, the government's proposed changes would give around 97 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: eight hundred and fifty thousand eligible workers access to the 98 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: same entitlements that permanent employees receive. So when we think 99 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: about permanent employees, they get annual leave, they get sick leave, 100 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: they get careers leave, and they also get things like 101 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 2: a notice of termination. 102 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 3: Periods, so you can't get told you don't have a 103 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 3: job and not be able to come to work the 104 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 3: next day. 105 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: No, but that's what casual workers face, so they can 106 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 2: lose their employment without notice and Employment Minister Tony Burke 107 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: says that his proposal would actually provide security for casuals 108 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: who want it. 109 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 4: Your rent's not casual, your bills aren't casual. Paying for 110 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 4: the groceries or other members of the household, none of 111 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 4: those expenses are casual. 112 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 2: But the proposal is that everyone would be forced to 113 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: become a permanent employee. Employees would still be able to 114 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: make that choice. 115 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 3: You've just rattled off all those benefits to what happens 116 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 3: if you become a permanent employee, So why would someone 117 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 3: remain a casual employee. 118 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: Casuals often get an extra pay loading, which can be 119 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 2: around twenty five percent, to compensate for their lack of 120 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: job security and the lack of entitlements that we just 121 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: spoke about. Although I do think that it is important 122 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: to say not everyone does get that loading, and especially 123 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: not that full twenty five percent, and not all casuals 124 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: earn more than permanent employees with similar skills. Advocates have 125 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: actually argued that in some circumstances, despite that loading, some 126 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: casuals might still overall end up getting paid three to 127 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: four dollars less per hour than permanent employees with similar skills. 128 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 3: Zara put these changes in a bit of context for 129 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 3: me politically, why is the government making this move now? 130 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 2: So, until recently Australia didn't actually have a legal definition 131 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: of what casual employment actually was, and that changed after 132 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: there were two recent court cases. And in those court cases, 133 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: judges ruled that two employees who had consistent work arrangements 134 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: couldn't actually be considered casual and that they were entitled 135 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: to paid leave, so they were entitled to the same 136 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: thing that a permanent employee would be. So this prompted 137 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: the former Morrison government to create a legal definition in 138 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, which the Albanezi government claims led to 139 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: a loophole that means that not enough people are transitioning 140 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: from casual to permanent employment and that that pathway isn't 141 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: working as intended. 142 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 3: Okay, So now the government's made this announcement, what's the 143 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: response been like. 144 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: So it's just been announced this week, but I mean, 145 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: straight off the bat, the Australian Council of Trade Unions, 146 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 2: who would naturally have some fair alignment with the Labor 147 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: Party welcomed the government's plans and said that it'll ensure 148 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: greater security for casual ACTU Secretary Sally McManus has said 149 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: in the past that too many casuals are casuals in 150 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: name only. 151 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 4: Surely, after two years of the pandemic, when we saw 152 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 4: essential workers who were classified as casuals doing essential work 153 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 4: day in day out, who did not even have sickly, 154 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: they deserve this. 155 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: Okay, what about opposition to the policy, Well. 156 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: There's been political opposition and then there has been business 157 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: or employer opposition. So taking the business opposition first, the 158 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: Australian Industry Group, which represents employers so not employees, has 159 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 2: said that employers will be alarmed at what it called 160 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: a radical proposal, and it's said that the real risk 161 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: is that employees will be laid off. The opposition so 162 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: the Coalition accused the government of deliberately creating significant uncertainty 163 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: for both businesses and casual workers. Shadow Employment Minister Michaylia 164 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: Cash claimed the government's proposal would actually encourage businesses to 165 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: give casual fewer hours. So she's arguing that it would 166 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: be the opposite of an incentive for an employer, and 167 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: that that could lead to the layoff of casual workers. 168 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: Cash actually told TDA and I quote her here that 169 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: labor primarily opposes casual work because they find it more 170 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 2: difficult to unionize this workforce. So clearly lots of opposing 171 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 2: views on this, and I imagine that it'll come down 172 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: to the cross bench and where they fall on this 173 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: issue to see how it progresses through Parliament. 174 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 3: So we reported this story to our audience on Instagram 175 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: and in the comments section, there was some strong views 176 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 3: that were coming through what was kind of the sentiment 177 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: of the audience the. 178 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 2: Flavor Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that this is 179 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 2: definitely one that has our audience divided. I think on 180 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: the one hand, some people were saying this could help 181 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: people and casual workers. Someone said quote universities are notorious 182 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: for the casualization of their more recent staff. But there 183 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: are also a few comments from casual work who would 184 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: choose to stay casual. One person said the annual pay 185 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 2: is still so low that losing the loading might mean 186 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 2: I couldn't cover rent and bills. I think it's worth 187 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: repeating that your circumstance will dictate how you think about 188 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: this policy, because some casuals will get that loading others won't, 189 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 2: so it'll be really interesting to see how many people 190 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 2: take up this offer from the government if and when 191 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: it passes through Parliament. 192 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 3: That is all for today's podcast, but if you've got 193 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 3: to spare forty seven seconds, we'd love your help getting 194 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: a little bit of feedback on the ads that you 195 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 3: hear in the podcast and the ads and partnerships that 196 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 3: we do across the daily os on Instagram and newsletters, 197 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 3: and we'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts so we can 198 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: make this a better experience for you. There's a link 199 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: in the show notes. Have a great day and we'll 200 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 3: speak to you tomorrow.