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Speaker 1: Now it is a topic and an issue that we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about for quite some time. The attrition rates

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Speaker 1: within the Northern Territory Police Force. Well, we've found that

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Speaker 1: they've nearly doubled. That's according to the organization's annual report.

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Speaker 1: The report was tabled in Parliament last week and showed

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Speaker 1: that attrition hit eight point five to one percent in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty to twenty twenty one. That's up from four

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Speaker 1: point five to three percent the previous year. Now joining

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Speaker 1: me on the line is the president of the Police Association,

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Speaker 1: Paul McHugh. Good morning to you, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katy.

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Speaker 1: Here are you going? Not too bad? Paul? I guess

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Speaker 1: these numbers are probably not overly surprising. The Police Association

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Speaker 1: did recently conduct a survey which showed that there are

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Speaker 1: a number of officers either leaving the force or looking

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Speaker 1: to leave the force. But what do these attrition rates

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Speaker 1: mean from your perspective?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, got no real surprises, as you point out

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Speaker 2: in the in the annual reportum, and we've known for

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Speaker 2: some time that the attrition has spiked over the last

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Speaker 2: year or so and it's doubled essentially from the year before.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's probably around double the national average

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Speaker 2: at the moment. But obviously what it means is we

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Speaker 2: just got to keep recruiting. We've got to keep employing

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Speaker 2: police to come in and make sure we're covering off

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Speaker 2: on that attrition rate. And I know the commissioners work

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Speaker 2: hard on that. I know there's significant recruiting underway, and

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Speaker 2: it has been for some time, and I'm pretty confident

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Speaker 2: into the next twelve months or so, there's a significant

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Speaker 2: recruitment campaign. But of course what it means is is,

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Speaker 2: you know, significant experience walking out the door, and we

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Speaker 2: want to really try and make sure where we're doing

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Speaker 2: everything we can to stop that because whilst somebody resigns,

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Speaker 2: it does take a lot of time to train, recruit,

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Speaker 2: and deploy a new officer and then develop them into

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Speaker 2: various roles in the organization. So certainly, certainly from our perspective,

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Speaker 2: you know that the attrition rate is concerning. We know

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Speaker 2: that for a fact, we've known it for some time.

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Speaker 2: But we also know there is a heck of a

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Speaker 2: lot of recruiting underway and obviously a lot of opportunities

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Speaker 2: for people out there. Police officer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I she put it out there, you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's that lack of experience or the losing of

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Speaker 1: the experience, which does have a big impact, you know, Paul,

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Speaker 1: I guess when you hear numbers like attrition rays hitting

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Speaker 1: eight point five one percent for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: you know, it'll sort of go over their heads to

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Speaker 1: some degree. But when you're talking about sort of boots

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Speaker 1: on the ground, how many officers is that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, last year, just over one hundred and forty officers

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Speaker 2: I guess separated from the organization, whither through resignation, dismissal,

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Speaker 2: or retirement. So it's a lot of numbers. We're talking

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Speaker 2: nearly ten percent of the workforce. But as I said,

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Speaker 2: the recruiting came in and obviously there was quite a

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Speaker 2: number of recruits during that same period, but it does

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Speaker 2: take Obviously somebody resigns, they can only give two weeks

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Speaker 2: notice and essentially then it could take six to twelve

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Speaker 2: months to obviously replace that individual. So that's essentially what

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Speaker 2: it means, Katie, And of course, you know, in terms

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Speaker 2: of experience, we do know a lot of those experienced

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Speaker 2: boots are walking out between sort of six and ten

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Speaker 2: years of service and they've been given a lot of

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Speaker 2: development in that time. One of the other positives the

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Speaker 2: Commissioner has done a course is some ongoing development and

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Speaker 2: the detective pathways and other sections within the agency which

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Speaker 2: has really helped provide opportunities to current staff.

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Speaker 1: So, Paul, would you say at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: I mean, from what you've just said, then it does

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Speaker 1: sound as though the commissioners obviously identified that this is

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Speaker 1: an issue and that there is quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: work going on within the force to not only replace

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Speaker 1: those officers that are leaving, but try to map out

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Speaker 1: some pathways for those officers which are already part of

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Speaker 1: the police force. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, that's right, And obviously, you know, we don't want

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Speaker 2: people leaving, and obviously when people request an accident of view,

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Speaker 2: we want to make sure they're being contacted and obviously

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Speaker 2: questions are being asked as to why they're leaving or

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Speaker 2: if they can get anything we can be done to

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Speaker 2: stop them leaving. But of course if they do leave,

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Speaker 2: I'm certainly where the commissioners are on top of making

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Speaker 2: sure those numbers are covered off. We've seen that in

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Speaker 2: the figures through the annual report. We know there's been

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Speaker 2: a significant boost at the constable rank because obviously that's

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Speaker 2: the rank generally that comes in once somebody resigns. So

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Speaker 2: you know, we know that's happening, and we know there's

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Speaker 2: obviously a lot of opportunities for people to become police,

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Speaker 2: but we really want to do everything we can to

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Speaker 2: slow that attrition ray down. I think it's a benefit

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Speaker 2: across the board.

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Speaker 1: And Paul, when you talk about why officers are leaving,

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Speaker 1: I know that my understanding is that there isn't Is

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Speaker 1: there a formal sort of interview process in terms of

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Speaker 1: when somebody does separate from the organization, in terms of

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Speaker 1: trying to work out exactly why they are leaving.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I do believe they are obviously given the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to undertake an exit interview with the agency, and

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Speaker 2: some obviously take that up and some don't. Some people

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Speaker 2: just want to want to move on to another career.

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Speaker 2: But what we do want to make sure is happening

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Speaker 2: is if somebody has identified that lot speak and provide

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Speaker 2: reasons that they are being contacted, those reasons are being

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Speaker 2: mapped out and obviously for two reasons. One deceiver is

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Speaker 2: anything can be done to keep them, but secondly, to

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Speaker 2: really understand the true reasons while people are leaving and

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Speaker 2: just to make sure that things are being put in

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Speaker 2: place to try and avoid that in the future.

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Speaker 1: Well, and we hear a lot from the Police Minister

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Speaker 1: that the real reason that that officers are leaving in

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Speaker 1: droves is because there is such competitive sort of rates

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Speaker 1: into state and such competitive recruitment campaigns happening into state.

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Speaker 1: From your perspective, though, is that the case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, obviously, you know we do have some excellent

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Speaker 2: officers here in the NT. We do know police forces

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Speaker 2: like the Australian Federal Police, you know Victoria tas made.

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Speaker 2: We know there's been active recruitment campaigns under way, and

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Speaker 2: we know Queensland will be heavily recruiting obviously in the

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Speaker 2: next year or so. So it is a competitive market.

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Speaker 2: We have to remain strong here in terms of what

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Speaker 2: we're providing for our officers and the support and everything

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Speaker 2: that they need. We know, you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: things that's been a big I guess spanner in the

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Speaker 2: works for every police forces COVID and the responsibilities police

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Speaker 2: are being given. You couldn't predict what that might want

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Speaker 2: require and I know that's had some impact on people

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Speaker 2: moving onto other careers. Outside of police, but of course

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Speaker 2: we are competitive and other police forces are actively recruiting,

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Speaker 2: so you know, we want to make sure if you

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Speaker 2: want to be a police officer, you want to be

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Speaker 2: a police officer here in the NT not elsewhere, and

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Speaker 2: if we can do everything we can do to make

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Speaker 2: that happen, and that should be undertaken, Paul.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that we hear very loudly and

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Speaker 1: clearly on the text line. We also hear it on

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Speaker 1: the phone line and through the station generally, is that

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Speaker 1: one of the real issues within the force at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and I know we can't go into much detail about

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Speaker 1: this is the treatment of Zach Rolf. Obviously that case

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Speaker 1: is underway, so there's much that we cannot say. But

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Speaker 1: is this having an impact on our force in terms

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Speaker 1: of people maybe not feeling as supported as they'd like to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously it was one of the reasons in our

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Speaker 2: survey some people indicated why they are looking to leave.

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Speaker 2: But of course it is before the courts. It's you

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Speaker 2: know that this week will be back before the High

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Speaker 2: Court and the matter is still unresolved, so obviously we

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Speaker 2: need to let that take its course. It's difficult for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people because it isn't resolved at this point,

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Speaker 2: so it's very difficult to talk about. But certainly it's

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Speaker 2: had some sort of an impact. But that's all we

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Speaker 2: can really comment on at that stage. I know.

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Speaker 1: One of the other things that a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of Territorians wonder if it's having an impact on

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Speaker 1: the police force is some of the issues that we've

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Speaker 1: got with repeat offenders and youth offenders and having to

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Speaker 1: deal with that each and every day. Is that something

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Speaker 1: that's ever raised by members.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously it is. It sometimes thrills like a

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Speaker 2: revolving door. I mean, that's not anything new. I mean, sadly,

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Speaker 2: I think from our perspective, as a lot of officers feel,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're very much at the end of the line.

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Speaker 2: Once people come into police custody or to the attention

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Speaker 2: of police on a regular basis, we're right at the

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Speaker 2: end of the queue and there's a lot, a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of work way before them from other agencies or

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Speaker 2: through the family environment, or whatever the case may be

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Speaker 2: that needs to be done to avoid that happening, and

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Speaker 2: our police are doing an incredibly good job. Police at

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Speaker 2: all ranks are working really, really hard to do the

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Speaker 2: best they can. The legislation that's in places out of

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Speaker 2: their hands. They can only operate within it. But certainly

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Speaker 2: we're keen and we'll be doing that in the near future.

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Speaker 2: Get some feedback on some of those legslive changes that

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Speaker 2: have come into place, whether it's youth or alcohol, to

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Speaker 2: see what impact that might have had on the front line.

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Speaker 2: But as I've said, very much at the end of

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Speaker 2: the queue and we only do what we can do.

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Speaker 2: But that feedback will be provided through to the Minister's

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Speaker 2: office in terms of how it's changed.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll be very interested to find out more when

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Speaker 1: that feedback is received. Paul Mcue anything else we should

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Speaker 1: be aware of this morning, O, Katie.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just you know, obviously everyone's working really hard.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's doing an incredibly good job, and we know frontline resourcing,

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Speaker 2: whether it be police and nurses, doctors and other frontline

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Speaker 2: health people are all working their backsides off to keep

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Speaker 2: us safe and we need to make sure we thank

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Speaker 2: them every day for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Has there been much insight at this point in

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Speaker 1: time into exactly how you know? We know that the

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Speaker 1: vaccine mandate obviously isn't too far away in terms of

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Speaker 1: being implemented. Has there been much insight in terms of

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Speaker 1: how the force is going to sort of be managing

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Speaker 1: and making sure that people are vaccinated or what kind

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Speaker 1: of role is going to fall on their shoulders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting one because obviously it's a bit

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Speaker 2: of an unknown at this stage. There'll be some compliance requirements,

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Speaker 2: no doubt, and I'm sure the Commission would be fully aware,

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Speaker 2: being the territory control, of what sort of impact that

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Speaker 2: might have on our offices. But we do know COVID

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Speaker 2: generally has had an enormous impact across the board and

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Speaker 2: continues to do in terms of our resource and capability.

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Speaker 2: So that deadline is fast looming, and certainly we've had

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Speaker 2: some regular discussions with the Commission's representatives about that and

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Speaker 2: we'll continue to do so right up to the day

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Speaker 2: and beyond.

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Speaker 1: Well. Police Association President Paul Mchue. Always good to catch

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Speaker 1: up with you. Thanks so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Good on your thanks Coatie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you