Speaker 1: All right, I'll just welcome back to the Mason Cox
Speaker 1: Show today. Big guests, massive guests, not physically but also
Speaker 1: from his athletic ability. We've got one of the great
Speaker 1: athletes of Australia. Give me a little backgrounds from Geelong Grammer.
Speaker 1: He is a Melbourne, somewhat Melbourne based fella. He's way
Speaker 1: of Saint Mary's with some of the top players. He's
Speaker 1: playing with people like Kevin Durant, Yes, Kevin Durant, Devin Booker,
Speaker 1: a few of the superstars of the NBA at the moment.
Speaker 1: He is an Australian at heart, born and bred but
Speaker 1: now living over in Phoenix, Arizona. He's got even an
Speaker 1: NBL Championship. He's got a whole bunch of stuff we'll
Speaker 1: go through, but he is a great man and he's
Speaker 1: now joining us on the pod.
Speaker 2: Juck Landell, welcome.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Right, that's a heck of an intro.
Speaker 1: We've got plenty to cover it because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff you've done, there's a lot of accomplishments you've had,
Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of these Australians that
Speaker 1: go to the NBA do it in a similar style.
Speaker 3: That you have.
Speaker 1: So I want to get a bit of a background
Speaker 1: information of how this happens, because some people just think
Speaker 1: a click of a finger somehow you go to say Mary's,
Speaker 1: you end up in the NBA.
Speaker 2: That's not how it goes.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to start off a bit of early days,
Speaker 1: Geelong Grammar, going to school out there.
Speaker 2: How was it?
Speaker 1: Were you a basketball superstar growing up? Or was it
Speaker 1: just something you grew into because I know you grew
Speaker 1: like myself. I grew about eight inches in the summer,
Speaker 1: and I think you grew about a foot in about
Speaker 1: three years. So I was told people who just kind
Speaker 1: of had that one moment it just kind of goes
Speaker 1: nuts tell us about it, like Geelong Grammar growing up?
Speaker 2: Were you a basketball superstar?
Speaker 3: Not in the slightest mate. I didn't really take it
Speaker 3: too seriously until I was like fifteen years old. And
Speaker 3: you know, the way the way I got into it
Speaker 3: was I broke my arm. I broke my arm when
Speaker 3: I was up at Timbertop, which is you know, a
Speaker 3: campus for Geelong Grammar where you go up there and
Speaker 3: you hike all these mountains for a four year. You
Speaker 3: run through the mountains for a four year it's madness,
Speaker 3: and I snapped my arm pretty severely on the last
Speaker 3: day of skiing, which is part of our curriculum up there,
Speaker 3: and when had some X rays and saw a surgeon
Speaker 3: and blog pretty much told me that I had growth
Speaker 3: plays in my wrists that were wide open and looked
Speaker 3: like I was about a five year old. So at
Speaker 3: that point, I was like six foot one, fourteen years old.
Speaker 3: Fifteen years old, and he was like, we've been told
Speaker 3: I was probably going to be like six three as
Speaker 3: they try and estimate. I don't even know how they
Speaker 3: do that when he's young, and he was he looked,
Speaker 3: took one look at him, and he was like, yeah, no,
Speaker 3: you'll probably be around seven foot So at that point
Speaker 3: we were like, right, what do I do with this height? Yeah? Gee,
Speaker 3: long Grammer. Really they have no high school basketball team,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, the extent of basketball was just
Speaker 3: club sports on the weekend and that was really it. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: not a superstar on.
Speaker 2: The slightest you just kind of grew in. Is it
Speaker 2: one of those things?
Speaker 1: I guess there's not too many seven footer is really
Speaker 1: rolling around Jeely and Grammar, so they just kind of
Speaker 1: threw you in the center spot and was like, we'll
Speaker 1: teach this kid how to play basketball. He's got something
Speaker 1: you can't teach, and that's hight. I wouldn't be playing
Speaker 1: ifl wasn't for me being frequently tied. I don't think
Speaker 1: you've probably played any offense, but if you weren't the
Speaker 1: same height, so you know a bit of God give
Speaker 1: it is what they say. But so you started you
Speaker 1: were center probably for Geelong Grammar. I'm guessing that was
Speaker 1: it kind of success around that, Like obviously you're in
Speaker 1: high school and then you go to Saint Mary's.
Speaker 2: Now I know delv Dova.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows Matthew Delvadova and he played to Saint Mary's. Also,
Speaker 1: is there some kind of weird connection that like they
Speaker 1: just automatically find all the Australians and send them to
Speaker 1: the same place to be able to play college ball.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Mate. So that started off with a bloke by
Speaker 3: the name of Adam Capewn back in like two thousand
Speaker 3: and three, where he was the first ossie to go
Speaker 3: out there, and they just loved how tough he was
Speaker 3: and how hard he played, and they committed to just
Speaker 3: like poaching ossies out of there for college basketball, and
Speaker 3: at that point, not many people had come to America
Speaker 3: for college hoops, and they just kind of, you know,
Speaker 3: got a shoeing in Australia and became you know, for Americans,
Speaker 3: the ideal thing is to go to do Kentucky, you know,
Speaker 3: all of those North Carolinas of the of the college system,
Speaker 3: and for Australians it became Saint Mary's And it was
Speaker 3: just because of the success that was kind of bred
Speaker 3: out of that. Once we had Paddy Mills go through
Speaker 3: through there and get drafted of the NBA, it was like, right,
Speaker 3: every Australian just wants to go there. So I lucked
Speaker 3: out big time in my recruiting process. I was literally
Speaker 3: watching him mate play for them, because they come out
Speaker 3: to Australia and do like a college tour and play
Speaker 3: against some NBL teams and stuff, and at that point
Speaker 3: I had no college interest whatsoever. So I was literally
Speaker 3: walking across the court to go and say good ey
Speaker 3: to him after the game, and the coaches saw me
Speaker 3: and they said, right, like, who's this big, big fellow,
Speaker 3: Like we need to go and check him out too.
Speaker 3: Like two weeks later, I'm down at the high school
Speaker 3: and again like we had no John Grammer didn't have
Speaker 3: a high school team. So I picked up I picked
Speaker 3: nine of my mates, and I just said, fellas, like,
Speaker 3: I've got this crazy opportunity. These idiots are coming to
Speaker 3: check me out and see if I'm any good at basketball, Like,
Speaker 3: can we just like put together a little scrimmage for him,
Speaker 3: Pretend that we've got a high school team. So I
Speaker 3: rock up with these blokes and we run through like
Speaker 3: a full scrimmage right in front of this coach and
Speaker 3: the coach the story is, the coach calls back to
Speaker 3: Saint Mary's and he's like, I think he's okay, but
Speaker 3: I can't really tell because he's playing against like a
Speaker 3: bunch of five foot three blokes that he looks like
Speaker 3: he's just picked up off the side of the road.
Speaker 3: You know. Next next minute, I'm on a flight out
Speaker 3: to Saint Mary's for like an official visit. Anyway, I
Speaker 3: get there, somehow impress them, and I was literally so
Speaker 3: unfit that we were doing again, we were doing like
Speaker 3: an open court scrimmage. I couldn't get up. I couldn't
Speaker 3: get up halfway up the court by the end of
Speaker 3: the day. And from that, somehow they pulled me into
Speaker 3: the office and they said, we like your touch, we
Speaker 3: like how you move, even though I wasn't really moving
Speaker 3: too far. You know, we want to offer you a scholarship.
Speaker 3: And I just said, yep, I'll take it done. That
Speaker 3: was it. I've walked in the room, said yep, I'm
Speaker 3: going to going to Saint Mary's and that was it.
Speaker 3: Had no other options whatsoever. So I mean to you,
Speaker 3: now that unfolded.
Speaker 1: Did you already mentally prepare yourself to want to move
Speaker 1: to America to play college ball?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I started. I'd started sitting SATs, and I
Speaker 3: knew that that was something I wanted to do because
Speaker 3: I definitely wasn't going to be good enough to go
Speaker 3: straight to the NBL or somewhere in Europe or something.
Speaker 3: I was very raw, and you know, I mean honestly,
Speaker 3: I wasn't that talented. So the goal in mine was,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe I'll get to a Division two school.
Speaker 3: Kind of worked my way out through through the ranks
Speaker 3: in America and somehow Saint Mary's saw something in me
Speaker 3: and kind of just tip the hat and said, right like,
Speaker 3: we think you got something, let's let's give it a crack. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: I was sitting SATs around that time, like trying to
Speaker 3: prep myself to do it, but I honestly never thought
Speaker 3: that I'd be playing Division one basketball. And at that
Speaker 3: point in time, I was like, this is the craziest
Speaker 3: thing ever, Like I've gotten to Division one basketball in college,
Speaker 3: Like this must be as good as it gets.
Speaker 1: That's it's that's wild, maccause it's your store is so
Speaker 1: similar to mine, where it's just like things happen, you
Speaker 1: take it, you run with it, you make the most
Speaker 1: of it. The next thing happens, you take it, your
Speaker 1: run with it, you make the most of it, and
Speaker 1: you just keep leveling up and then you get to
Speaker 1: the top top tier playing in the NBA like you
Speaker 1: are at the moment, man is there, Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: you look at your fair I think whenever I told
Speaker 1: my family I was coming to Australia to play AFL,
Speaker 1: and they were probably like, what the hell's AFL first
Speaker 1: of all, but second of all, they had a bit
Speaker 1: of reserve. I guess about me going overseas to put
Speaker 1: like I don't know, be essentially looked after by other people,
Speaker 1: like did you have anyone there? Like obviously talking about
Speaker 1: that coach that recruited you. Do you have anyone that
Speaker 1: kind of took you in as a bit of like
Speaker 1: support over there that had Australian I guess like connection
Speaker 1: or something is I found it? Whenever I came here,
Speaker 1: I was really just on my own, Like it was
Speaker 1: just there was not really anyone I knew in the country.
Speaker 1: I didn't know have any connection to anyone in the
Speaker 1: country and had to really make friends from scratch, and
Speaker 1: obviously that being with the team definitely helps. Was there
Speaker 1: anyone that kind of was that connector for.
Speaker 3: You, Well, we had my first year there, we had
Speaker 3: we had two other Australians on the team, and I
Speaker 3: was familiar with them but wasn't really too close to
Speaker 3: them before going to Saint Mary's. But I mean, mate,
Speaker 3: I just hung out with them day and night and
Speaker 3: we just like it was just like a little Australian
Speaker 3: click we had. And by my third year we actually
Speaker 3: outnumbered the Americans. We had eight Australians on our team
Speaker 3: in the third year at Saint Mary's, So it was
Speaker 3: like it was pretty it was pretty wild and pretty
Speaker 3: rare timing to have them all there. But yeah, by
Speaker 3: the end of it, it was like we had a
Speaker 3: little you know, Aussie community within the team and we'd
Speaker 3: all just hang out together and that was it. Mate,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be honest with you. I had pretty much
Speaker 3: zero friends outside of the basketball team. I was just
Speaker 3: and that's kind of how it goes in college, Like
Speaker 3: you just hang out with your team day and night,
Speaker 3: and you party with them, you go on the road
Speaker 3: and you play with them, and then you know, it's
Speaker 3: just like around the clock. And especially at that point
Speaker 3: in time when when we went in because we do
Speaker 3: summer school, there's no other students on campus, so you
Speaker 3: just get this little click going and then you spend
Speaker 3: your whole year with them and it's not so bad. Like, honestly,
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed it. So yeah, those those boys helped
Speaker 3: me through that first year a lot. But you know,
Speaker 3: by the end of it, it was like we pretty
Speaker 3: much had like a small country town living at Saint.
Speaker 1: Mary's Australian community with the accents everywhere. You would have
Speaker 1: been the kings of the town. I'm sure was playing
Speaker 1: in an Australian accident over saying Saint Mary's.
Speaker 2: I must side.
Speaker 1: Now I've gotta ask this because remember, you get recruited
Speaker 1: to college. Rot Now you have to sell the experience
Speaker 1: of college because you're not getting paid there. It's a
Speaker 1: school you go to play basketball and you also get education. Now,
Speaker 1: I was never fortunate enough to experience one of these,
Speaker 1: but the recruitment trips are always very interesting.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: They take you out, they take you out for a
Speaker 1: good time. They try to show you that the town
Speaker 1: has got some life to it, that playing here is
Speaker 1: going to be good fun for the next four years,
Speaker 1: or it might be get a college degree. But also
Speaker 1: maybe you don't have a bit of a enjoyable time
Speaker 1: away from the basketball court. Also, was there anything I
Speaker 1: guess you're probably on both sides, obviously the recruiting of
Speaker 1: you and ever you got there, but also probably trying
Speaker 1: to recruit others to the basketball team once you were
Speaker 1: on the team. Is there anything you did specifically? I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for party stories here. I'm gonna be honest, Jock,
Speaker 1: of just something that's because I've been through college, I've
Speaker 1: seen some of the stuff that happens, and I know
Speaker 1: not all of that we can talk about on the podcast,
Speaker 1: But I'm just trying to get a little snippet from you.
Speaker 3: Brother. I'm going to have to disappoint you here. When
Speaker 3: I got there, it was it was break for the
Speaker 3: rest of the college. So it was literally just me
Speaker 3: and the boys at school. There was no one else there,
Speaker 3: but they definitely had told me stories about previous They
Speaker 3: were like, they probably didn't like me that much, to
Speaker 3: be honest with you, because they were like, look like
Speaker 3: all these other fellows that we bring in, like this
Speaker 3: is typically what we go and do, we go to parties,
Speaker 3: we set them up, blah blah blah. And for me,
Speaker 3: I rolled in there and I was pretty much they
Speaker 3: were just like, here, look, we got nothing for it.
Speaker 3: So it was out to dinner with the coaches. I
Speaker 3: was just hanging out. I was hanging out with a
Speaker 3: bunch of old men, and I was like, this doesn't
Speaker 3: feel right. Actually, this isn't isn't the right kind of
Speaker 3: way you sell college. But that was as good as
Speaker 3: good as it got for me. So again I had
Speaker 3: no options so that they really didn't have to sell
Speaker 3: me on too much.
Speaker 2: And so we had very different college experiences.
Speaker 1: Jock, I must ask though, because whenever you go to
Speaker 1: the US, right, and this is something I've learned in reverse,
Speaker 1: the culture is a little bit different now. The music
Speaker 1: they play, the things they pay attention to very different, right,
Speaker 1: a bit more rap music and things along those lines
Speaker 1: where I found it house music here in Australia, a
Speaker 1: lot of techno and.
Speaker 2: Stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Was that something you kind of you got there and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my gosh. Like I was like one
Speaker 1: of the few white guys on the team, so I
Speaker 1: was the least hoard of anyone there, and I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like sometimes I went in there and I
Speaker 1: was it was a real culture shock at times of
Speaker 1: some of the stuff out here. But was there anything
Speaker 1: I guess going to Saint Mary's, what was the biggest
Speaker 1: thing that was a shock for you moving to the
Speaker 1: US and getting into basketball over there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was definitely. It was definitely kind
Speaker 3: of the locker room chat, the music scene, you know,
Speaker 3: all those typical things were just completely different. Also, Like
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe in college and a lot of the
Speaker 3: big party schools, like you know, they typically at least
Speaker 3: what I founder is like a lot of the guys
Speaker 3: kind of go out and they act cool, whereas in
Speaker 3: Australia it's let's go out and just see how Like
Speaker 3: I'm going to my best mates to see how many
Speaker 3: drinks I can drink compared to you and just see
Speaker 3: who gets the most maggeted. So definitely went in there
Speaker 3: doing that, and it was everyone was a little bit like,
Speaker 3: fuck is this guy? Like what is he doing? Just
Speaker 3: like of his chops at like the first party he's
Speaker 3: ever been to it at school, So I look, I
Speaker 3: definitely made a mess of myself, like multiple times the
Speaker 3: same areas, but I managed one of my best mates.
Speaker 3: One of my best mates now is an American from
Speaker 3: San Diego, and I fully converted him into an honorary Australian.
Speaker 3: He's like yourself, mate, Like he just loved the culture
Speaker 3: so much that I've got him doing like danger cans
Speaker 3: and smacking these these beer bottles against his head and
Speaker 3: stuff like, and all these Americans are looking at us
Speaker 3: like who are these guys? Probably explains why I had
Speaker 3: no mates because I was acting up like this outside
Speaker 3: of the bus well tame, but mate, it was it
Speaker 3: was such a live so I used to really really
Speaker 3: lean into that that cultural difference and and and just actor.
Speaker 3: For the entire four years I was acting like an
Speaker 3: absolute idiot. But yeah, I can imagine some good stories there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine because I'm whenever I go back to America,
Speaker 1: I mean, I've got to be of a hybrid accent.
Speaker 1: Now now you still have a very strong Australian accent.
Speaker 1: I play up the Australian accent over there, like it.
Speaker 1: It bodes well. Jocket boats very well over there, just
Speaker 1: in conversation. Whatever it may be. People are just interested
Speaker 1: in an Australian accent because they just don't hear it
Speaker 1: very often. Now were the times, I guess when you
Speaker 1: first came there, you were like, Okay, you gotta try.
Speaker 1: Veggie might like, no, we don't all ride kangaroos. There's
Speaker 1: not qualas everywhere. Did you have to give them the
Speaker 1: basics of what's going on in Australia because a lot
Speaker 1: of people over there very ignorant of what's happening in
Speaker 1: this country.
Speaker 3: Yeah, mate, all the time? You know, drop is if
Speaker 3: if all you know, you're walking through the city, people
Speaker 3: think that you're just getting attacked by like snakes, anders
Speaker 3: and stuff, and it's like you never see him. All
Speaker 3: that stuff is just like NonStop. And sometimes I mean,
Speaker 3: look a lot of the time I really milked it.
Speaker 3: And you know, even when we had this this bloke,
Speaker 3: Evan fits out to our He ended up coming out
Speaker 3: to Australia and coming out to my farm with all
Speaker 3: my mates, and the whole time we were just like, right,
Speaker 3: let's commit to just like scaring him about drop as.
Speaker 3: So like I fully set set it in stone for
Speaker 3: two years. I was like, you might drops a real,
Speaker 3: dropers a real And so we get to the farm
Speaker 3: and we're kind of walking through the bush and he's
Speaker 3: looking up the whole time. Yeah, so we fully committed,
Speaker 3: like fully committed to it, fully committed to the whole
Speaker 3: the whole thing. But I mean, you have to write
Speaker 3: like you've got to. You've got to make the most
Speaker 3: of the Australian and American differences. And look, there's probably
Speaker 3: things that I think about Americans to this day that
Speaker 3: people have told me that are just completely false. So
Speaker 3: shoes probably on the other foot as well.
Speaker 1: I do find it amazing they do think every single
Speaker 1: thing in this country kills everyone, and there are there
Speaker 1: are a lot of dangers, but I think from Melbourne
Speaker 1: Geelong area, not nearly as many as probably up in
Speaker 1: northern Queensland. I will say there's not crocodile as drumming
Speaker 1: around like most people think in sharks, Yes they're in
Speaker 1: the water, but they don't eat people on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: It's tough to explain that to Americans over there. But
Speaker 1: I want to go a little bit now away from
Speaker 1: the American experience like college. We could talk about that,
Speaker 1: but I think it'd be a little bit We wouldn't
Speaker 1: be pc enough probably to be able to talk fully
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: Maybe one day, Chock, maybe one day and never.
Speaker 3: Both retired day. Maybe off the record, off the.
Speaker 2: Record, after dark or something.
Speaker 1: Now we'll go into You've gone and played in some
Speaker 1: crazy places. I've got here, you got Lithuania and Serbia.
Speaker 1: Now I can't imagine ever in your life coming from
Speaker 1: Geelong you would have thought would to being in a
Speaker 1: professional environment playing sport in Lithuania or Serbia. Now a
Speaker 1: lot of people pled to understand how you end up there,
Speaker 1: Like I know, there's the agency side of things, like
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen when undrafted and then you go over
Speaker 1: there to play to try to you know, I guess,
Speaker 1: increase your your status in the basketball world to try
Speaker 1: to get picked up by an NBA team. Can you explain,
Speaker 1: I guess how that works to someone who's ignorant and
Speaker 1: how that is, Like, it's very tough for people to
Speaker 1: understand exactly how do you get to the NBA and
Speaker 1: how hard it is to get to the NBA and
Speaker 1: how much, like I guess, you have to do beforehand.
Speaker 1: And a lot of people go over to these Eastern
Speaker 1: European countries to be able to play, to get there,
Speaker 1: to get experience, to be able to kind of see
Speaker 1: themselves in front of NBA scouts and stuff like, what
Speaker 1: was your personal experience? Did you just put full faith
Speaker 1: in your agent to find someone that was able to
Speaker 1: find a team out in Serbia, that in Lithuania to
Speaker 1: be able to have you play.
Speaker 3: Without getting too deep into the agency things, I initially
Speaker 3: put a lot of faith into my first group of agents.
Speaker 3: So pretty much like straight out of college when played
Speaker 3: in the summer League. Sorry, so to take us back
Speaker 3: a step further, you finish a college season, you're pretty
Speaker 3: much straight on the road for a month and you're
Speaker 3: traveling around, you're booking individual workouts with all of these
Speaker 3: NBA teams towards the end of their season. So right
Speaker 3: around now or next month, they start bringing in college
Speaker 3: guys to to you know, work them out against one another.
Speaker 3: You usually go in like a group of six. So
Speaker 3: I did that for a month straight. I booked like
Speaker 3: thirteen or fourteen workouts across a month, so you can
Speaker 3: imagine that's a month on the road. You're living on
Speaker 3: the road, and it's you know, workout in Brooklyn on
Speaker 3: a Monday, travel Tuesday to Milwaukee, work out in Milwaukee
Speaker 3: on a Wednesday, and that is just a month straight.
Speaker 3: Like didn't get back to school for a month. So
Speaker 3: did that. You kind of get a feel on which
Speaker 3: teams are interested, which teams are not, and your agents
Speaker 3: start having conversations with them around you know, will they
Speaker 3: draft you. So I had a bit of interest in
Speaker 3: the draft. I thought that I was going to be
Speaker 3: good because I was an All American. My college career
Speaker 3: kind of spoke for itself. But they, like, what they
Speaker 3: failed to kind of tell you is that, like your
Speaker 3: college career means nothing in the eyes of the professional league.
Speaker 3: So you can do all this stuff in college and
Speaker 3: they'll just be like, yeah, but does your game translate
Speaker 3: to the pros? And it really is like a different game.
Speaker 3: They just don't tell you that. So I go to
Speaker 3: the draft. Sorry, I got the draft night comes, I'm
Speaker 3: back in Australia with my family and friends and you know,
Speaker 3: they're all around at the house. You know, we all
Speaker 3: think that it's going to be life is good and
Speaker 3: end up going undrafted. So that's like a brutal That
Speaker 3: was a brutal night. I thought that my career was
Speaker 3: like over at that point. So anyways, I get a
Speaker 3: call from the Atlanta Hawks and they say, we want
Speaker 3: to bring you in to go and play in our
Speaker 3: summer league team. And that's what I do. Now. You know,
Speaker 3: same draft classes as Trey Young, and so the whole
Speaker 3: summer league experiences is centered around let's see how good
Speaker 3: we can make Trey Young and kind of get him,
Speaker 3: you know, get a good feel for him in the
Speaker 3: NBA system. So that whole, that whole, that whole experience
Speaker 3: probably wasn't what I wanted from it because there was like,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe ten shots to go around to players
Speaker 3: outside of their core. So end up starting for the
Speaker 3: Atlanta Hawks and I literally average like one and a
Speaker 3: half points and maybe two rebounds or something like that
Speaker 3: in twenty minutes, which is just embarrassing. So come out
Speaker 3: of that like morale is very low. I ended up
Speaker 3: jumping in a car and meeting up with a mate
Speaker 3: and we went. You know, we just kind of road
Speaker 3: trips around America, not knowing what was going to be next.
Speaker 3: Get a call towards the end of that and my
Speaker 3: agent says, you know, we've got we've got a contract
Speaker 3: off you from some joint in Italy. We got one
Speaker 3: for you from from Serbia. Now, I had like a
Speaker 3: pretty good relationship with a good fella or a really
Speaker 3: successful basketball player called David Anderson out of Australia, and
Speaker 3: I kind of leant on him a little bit and said, hey, mate,
Speaker 3: like what do you think of these clubs? And he said, no, brain,
Speaker 3: to go to Serbia, Like, Serbia is the place you
Speaker 3: want to be, is a young basketball player. The club
Speaker 3: itself partisan is legendary. You know. You see these videos
Speaker 3: of basketball crowds lighting up flares, throwing them on the court,
Speaker 3: all the toilet paper, and that's them. Like that is
Speaker 3: literally partisan. So I go to this environment and like
Speaker 3: it just slaps me in the face of like I've
Speaker 3: never been around such die hard, intense, passionate fan base
Speaker 3: that like I was. I was in shock for a
Speaker 3: little while. And we had a coach there initially who
Speaker 3: wasn't really playing me. Now we got off to like
Speaker 3: a two and eleven start, which you know in Europe
Speaker 3: is damn near like a death sentence. Like they live
Speaker 3: and breathe for this stuff. So if you're losing, that's
Speaker 3: like they're losing and they and they take that out
Speaker 3: on you. So anyways, we fire him. We bring in
Speaker 3: this guy, Andrea Trinkerry, who's probably one of the most
Speaker 3: influential people in my basketball career, and he kind of
Speaker 3: changes the trajectory of my career entirely, and I never
Speaker 3: forget it. We had this, we had this, We had
Speaker 3: this training one day where we had no coach at
Speaker 3: the time, but he was arriving at the end of
Speaker 3: training and he pulls up and he says, right, I
Speaker 3: want to speak to each of you individually. Stick around.
Speaker 3: It'll be five minutes ahead. So one by one they
Speaker 3: go up. Now I'm a rookie, so I'm obviously the
Speaker 3: end of the line. That's kind of how the basketball
Speaker 3: world works. And I'm at the very end of the line.
Speaker 3: And I walk into his office and everyone's walking out
Speaker 3: of there like blue in the face. They're just like
Speaker 3: by the like in shock or they're red in the
Speaker 3: face and just really angry. There was like maybe two
Speaker 3: of us who came out of that like in a
Speaker 3: good spot. I walked in there expecting to be just
Speaker 3: like rung out because I'd hardly played, and when I
Speaker 3: had played, I hadn't really played that well. And he
Speaker 3: said to me, mate, I've seen you play. I want
Speaker 3: to build the team around you. Because essentially the message
Speaker 3: that I got out of that meeting and I was
Speaker 3: in shock. I was like, is this going fucking crazy,
Speaker 3: Like I've had a shocking start to my season, Like
Speaker 3: he's going to put me in a terrible spot with
Speaker 3: the fans, Like I was a little bit nervous. Anyways,
Speaker 3: we go on an absolute tear, we win the Serbian Cup,
Speaker 3: we make the playoffs for the first time in a
Speaker 3: couple of years. We just go on a rampage and
Speaker 3: have a great season. But the experience basketball wise was
Speaker 3: next to none. It was just like, still one of
Speaker 3: my most valued memories on the court was playing in
Speaker 3: front of those Serbian fans, and you know, the passion
Speaker 3: that they show really trickled over into my game. My
Speaker 3: game is predicated off energy, high intensity. As you see,
Speaker 3: I've run up and down this court, scream in like
Speaker 3: a dickhead half the time. But you know that that
Speaker 3: kind of comes from Serbia. That's that's that's really where
Speaker 3: that comes from. And when it was good, it was good,
Speaker 3: but when it was bad, it was bad. Mate. So
Speaker 3: they have this rivalry with Red Star out there, and
Speaker 3: you know, we played against Red Star and we lost,
Speaker 3: but I had my best game of the season. This
Speaker 3: is like three games after this coach gets here. We
Speaker 3: lost to this Serbian, to this other Serbian team straight
Speaker 3: out of Belgrade, and they were our biggest rivals. And
Speaker 3: I've had this great game. I think, you know, it's
Speaker 3: all good. I'm just going to jump in the cargo home.
Speaker 3: I'm feeling good about myself. And one of my teammates
Speaker 3: is like, don't go outside, like wait till the fans
Speaker 3: completely clear out of there. And so I was like, mate,
Speaker 3: he's off, Like I'm fine, Like you don't know what
Speaker 3: you're talking about, Like, I've had a great game. Anyways,
Speaker 3: walk out the front and there's just like like a
Speaker 3: hundred people walking around, like throughout our car park. And
Speaker 3: you know, I've already told this story before and it's
Speaker 3: been out there, but like a blow a bloke ends
Speaker 3: up like Sewn showing is like he's shown his gun
Speaker 3: to me, and I'm just like, what is going on
Speaker 3: right now? Like I've just had this game, and this
Speaker 3: is how you're treating me. And that was like the
Speaker 3: first experience of their passion for the sport, and it
Speaker 3: changed my perspective entirely, Like just just showed that like
Speaker 3: winning is all that matters, and and that's kind of
Speaker 3: been my experience. That's far now. That's kind of like
Speaker 3: how things go. So, you know, don't make the NBA,
Speaker 3: you get bumped to a low level in Serbia or
Speaker 3: lower level in Servia, and then you kind of have
Speaker 3: to build your way up through Europe. So I have
Speaker 3: this great season in Serbia, I've got stories and stories
Speaker 3: like that, but I end up towards the end of
Speaker 3: the season, I start getting some interest from the NBA agency.
Speaker 3: At the time, I don't want to bad mouth them
Speaker 3: because I've already dealt with that, But you know, we
Speaker 3: end up signing it a deal in Lithuania behind closed doors.
Speaker 3: Nobody knows about it, not even the team you know,
Speaker 3: in Serbia, and it all goes really really badly. So
Speaker 3: probably would have and should have been signed to an
Speaker 3: NBA roster out of that season because I had such
Speaker 3: a great season in such a well respected league in Europe.
Speaker 3: So it's like EuroCup and EuroLeague pretty much the top
Speaker 3: top two leagues as well as the NBL outside of
Speaker 3: the NBA, and I was in euro Cup, so I
Speaker 3: was right there in like the third best league. I'd say,
Speaker 3: so I have this great, great season there, I get
Speaker 3: interest from a EuroLeague club, which is like another great
Speaker 3: stepping zone, legendary coach, and I also had some interest
Speaker 3: from the NBA. But I was so skeptical on whether
Speaker 3: or not the NBA was going to happen because of
Speaker 3: my experience from the past. But I was like, right,
Speaker 3: I'm going to sign with the Lithuanian team and have
Speaker 3: like a safety net there, and then I'll go to
Speaker 3: Summer League. I'll play in Summer League and then hopefully
Speaker 3: signed a deal in the NBA. Now we'd agreed to
Speaker 3: a deal with the Lithuanian team and the Serbian team
Speaker 3: eventually finds out and I'm injured at the time, and
Speaker 3: they're trying to force me to play through this injury,
Speaker 3: and I was like, guys, I can't play through this injury,
Speaker 3: like playing and simple, I just cannot play through this
Speaker 3: and my ankle's completely stuffed, and they're like you have
Speaker 3: to or otherwise you have to stay in Serbia. We're
Speaker 3: you're not allowed to be around the team, you're not
Speaker 3: allowed to use their facilities, nothing like that. So I
Speaker 3: was essentially stuck in my apartment for like, I think
Speaker 3: it was like probably like six to ten weeks roughly,
Speaker 3: but I was there just like sitting on a bunk
Speaker 3: ankle and as you know, like that's really bad for
Speaker 3: the ankles if you just fully immobilize it after a sprain.
Speaker 3: So I actually tear one of the three ligaments on
Speaker 3: the outside of my ankle completely and I just don't
Speaker 3: get any any treatment. So anyways, my new agent kind
Speaker 3: of comes in and he's like, oh sorry, it was
Speaker 3: actually still the old group. They're like, right, we've gotten
Speaker 3: this team to let you go back to America and
Speaker 3: rehab your ankle. If you get it healthy before the
Speaker 3: season finishes, then you go straight back and you finish
Speaker 3: out the season. If not, then you stay there play
Speaker 3: in the NBA, and they'll get like, you know that
Speaker 3: that's a good look for them. Anyways, I'm bags packed,
Speaker 3: ready to roll, and my agent gives me a call
Speaker 3: and is like, hey, you need to like pack your
Speaker 3: bags now get on a flight, like some shit shit's
Speaker 3: going down. The club has kind of found out about it.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. Let's get you out of there right
Speaker 3: now before they like, you know, come and find you
Speaker 3: and you know, figure this out. So I'm bags packed
Speaker 3: in twenty five minutes, all year's worth of my life
Speaker 3: into two bags, and twenty five minutes out the front
Speaker 3: door on a plane. I'm thinking I'm going back to America.
Speaker 3: And I get to the airport, my agent calls me,
Speaker 3: is like, hey, we're gonna actually fly you to Lithuania
Speaker 3: to do your physical for that contract, and then we'll
Speaker 3: bring you back to America. It's a really long winded story, mate,
Speaker 3: but essentially, I jump on a plane. I jump on
Speaker 3: a plane from Serbia to Poland Warsaw, Poland I think
Speaker 3: it is, and then connect there to Lithuania. But as
Speaker 3: I land in Poland, I open up my phone and
Speaker 3: I have like I couldn't even couldn't even tell you,
Speaker 3: I've never experienced anything like that. Many notifications just going
Speaker 3: through my phone. I must have been a thousand notifications
Speaker 3: down there, probably an exaggeration, but I'm like, what is
Speaker 3: going on. I'm looking through my phone and the Lithuanian
Speaker 3: team has caught wind that I'm coming to Lithuania. It
Speaker 3: was meant to be a secret, and they've pumped out
Speaker 3: we have signed Jock Landale, very excited to have him
Speaker 3: on our team, blah bah blah, and the Serbian team's like, hang,
Speaker 3: I'm like, we've not agreed to this, Like how have
Speaker 3: you signed this contract and not told us? So then
Speaker 3: they call my agents and they're like get him back here,
Speaker 3: like he's not allowed to leave. He's sticking around here
Speaker 3: and he's going to play. And I just called my
Speaker 3: agents and I was like, this is like, we've got
Speaker 3: to figure this out. Like I'm not going back, essentially
Speaker 3: said to him. I was like, I'm not going back.
Speaker 3: They're just going to keep me hostage there for another
Speaker 3: ten weeks. And at the time, I was really dealing
Speaker 3: with some bad thoughts and dark, dark side of the
Speaker 3: mental head space, and I was like, I literally cannot
Speaker 3: go back and sit in that apartment in isolation for
Speaker 3: any more time. So two days in Lithuania, whilst they
Speaker 3: figure that out and then go back to back to
Speaker 3: San Diego where I rehab with my best mate down
Speaker 3: there and just kind of do my own thing. And
Speaker 3: so we finally get that deal with Serbia sorted out.
Speaker 3: But essentially my buyout goes from it was about one
Speaker 3: hundred k, which is like on the lower level, up
Speaker 3: to seven hundred and fifty thousan dollars just like that
Speaker 3: because of such like a botch situation, a bit of
Speaker 3: a bit of unluck, I mean a bit of you know,
Speaker 3: I don't like, we just didn't have much luck on
Speaker 3: our side, but we get there. The buyout goes through
Speaker 3: the roof. And that's that's a big piece of the
Speaker 3: puzzle because essentially, I have this great I have this
Speaker 3: great innings in Summer League with the Milwaukee Bucks. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm one of the best five players named in that
Speaker 3: in that competition, and and I'm like, I'm like, we're
Speaker 3: having conversations, like there are clothes, there are conversations, and
Speaker 3: you know, little you know, drips of information coming out
Speaker 3: that like he's going to go to the NBA. Anyways,
Speaker 3: that's before they find out that I buy out seven
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand euros and that's yeah, it's euros
Speaker 3: by the way. So anyways, every team after that is like,
Speaker 3: we're not going to pay you seven hundred fiot thousand
Speaker 3: euros for you to sign you on a minimum contract
Speaker 3: because we essentially your minimum contract actually becomes like a
Speaker 3: two point five million dollar contract at that point, so
Speaker 3: it's like, well, why would we pay for it that,
Speaker 3: It doesn't make any sense. Anyways, I go through the
Speaker 3: you know, the World Cup, I have absolutely like I
Speaker 3: have there are dates in our contracts that you have
Speaker 3: to kind of sign these deals before, so I have
Speaker 3: all these dates in my contracts. Those dates come and go,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I'm locked into Lithuania. At this point,
Speaker 3: I had this phenomenal World Cup series. You know, a
Speaker 3: couple of the boys on the team at the time
Speaker 3: are saying, yeah, the coaches want you, to the front
Speaker 3: office want you, like, let's make it happen. And then
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, mate, they're not going to take me
Speaker 3: with this buyout hanging over my head, and they make
Speaker 3: the call buyouts there and they're like, yeah, no, we're
Speaker 3: not doing it. So anyways, I go have a good
Speaker 3: season in Lithuania. Pretty much, I was on a two
Speaker 3: year deal in Lithuania and Covid hits halfway through the season.
Speaker 3: So I come back to Australia to spend time with
Speaker 3: my family, and you know, at that point, again the
Speaker 3: mental head space is just completely stuffed and I'm kind
Speaker 3: of getting to an age where I'm like, I've got
Speaker 3: to make this NBA transition happen, otherwise it's just going
Speaker 3: to float by. So we have a conversation with lith
Speaker 3: Leania and I'm like, I can't come back, so again
Speaker 3: I'll break my contract. Like not a very good bloke
Speaker 3: in that regards a couple of years of my career.
Speaker 3: But I say to him, I'm like, yeah, like I'm
Speaker 3: not coming back, and then like what do I got
Speaker 3: to do? Essentially I had to hand back every cent
Speaker 3: that I'd made from them and was it was broke.
Speaker 1: So I gave it all that to Europe for a
Speaker 1: few years, and You've come back to zero dollars and
Speaker 1: then everyone couldn't buy out and You've gone, I sent
Speaker 1: you have to start back over to try to make
Speaker 1: it to the NBA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So kind of that all happens, and then luckily
Speaker 3: pick up a contract with with Melbourne United, have a
Speaker 3: great year there and they really looked after me well.
Speaker 3: And then you know, come out to America and again,
Speaker 3: you know, I was looking. There was a few like
Speaker 3: opportunities throughout my time in the NBL that just never stuck.
Speaker 3: And that's what a lot of it is is. It's conversation,
Speaker 3: it's false promises, and then there's one that comes through
Speaker 3: and you finally, you finally lock it in. So had
Speaker 3: a great Olympics. I was told after the NBA that
Speaker 3: it was probably going to happen, had a great Olympics,
Speaker 3: and you know, just locked it in whilst I was there,
Speaker 3: and then from there it was, you know, straight to
Speaker 3: the NBA. And then you think like right, I've made
Speaker 3: to the NBA, like life's good. And then you finish
Speaker 3: your first season, you get traded around three times and
Speaker 3: it's like we have no idea where we're going to be,
Speaker 3: so you know it's just like always moving, mate. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: long winded version of that story and explanation, but that's
Speaker 3: essentially a lot of business.
Speaker 1: Has worked in my I want to dissect it a
Speaker 1: bit further because there's a lot there. Like you you've
Speaker 1: obviously done the Serbia of the Lithuania. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of contractual talks that a lot of people probably don't
Speaker 1: understand how how crazy that can be, and being essentially
Speaker 1: moved to a different country, and then things being out
Speaker 1: of your control of you know, people releasing information about
Speaker 1: you that you thought was under wraps and you know
Speaker 1: the legalities around that, and you're sitting there stuck in
Speaker 1: a country, not sure what you're going to do. I
Speaker 1: can only imagine like being so far away from the
Speaker 1: uncertainty and stuff that's going around your mind at that point.
Speaker 1: Whenever you'd just got into Lithuania and Serbia and you
Speaker 1: obviously said the craziness of their fans and everything along
Speaker 1: those lines, like you're in Lithuania, you're about to go
Speaker 1: back to America, and then you essentially come back to
Speaker 1: Australia after COVID happens after going to Lithuania. Now you
Speaker 1: do play in the NBAL and you play for Melbourne United.
Speaker 1: You actually win a championship and not to pump guitars
Speaker 1: up a bit, but you're the NBL Grand Final MVP
Speaker 1: and then Melbourne United MVP Awards. So safe to say
Speaker 1: you had a pretty damn good year. Now was that, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, because you imagine all the stuff that's
Speaker 1: happening in the world at that point, you've been through
Speaker 1: kind of the ringer with the situation of being overseas
Speaker 1: and this is this is every athlete's worth worst nightmare.
Speaker 1: We've got a kid on our or a man on
Speaker 1: our team, Tom Wilson, who has been through something very
Speaker 1: similar in Europe.
Speaker 3: And to.
Speaker 2: What was he what was he part of? Was he
Speaker 2: part of the same club.
Speaker 3: Same club in Serbia? Asked me about. I've heard stories
Speaker 3: of his experience where apparently they would they like, you know,
Speaker 3: you get to a game in New Jerseys, laid out
Speaker 3: and they would just stop laying these jersey out. They
Speaker 3: just wanted him to leave, so they tried to essentially
Speaker 3: kick him out of the club. But yeah, I've heard
Speaker 3: stories about Tom because he was at the exact same
Speaker 3: club I was at.
Speaker 2: It's a ruthless industry.
Speaker 1: I think, like whenever I came to Australia, I had
Speaker 1: that I was a bit reserved on Will and I
Speaker 1: should come over here because I thought it might have
Speaker 1: the same situation that you've kind of had over there.
Speaker 1: Not knowing what to expect going over there, a bit
Speaker 1: blind and then trying to figure it out, and if
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out perfectly, you're essentially stuck there. And
Speaker 1: like you said, the fans and everyone else has a
Speaker 1: bit kind of crazy in that sense. Don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: calling and fans are crazy, but I think they'd let
Speaker 1: me leave the country.
Speaker 2: But it is.
Speaker 1: It is a stressful time I can only imagine in life.
Speaker 1: But then you come back to you you talked about
Speaker 1: the mental health side and then being able to come
Speaker 1: back home around friends and family, Like, was that just
Speaker 1: like whenever you landed in Australia after that experience was
Speaker 1: just a sigh of relief and just a breath of
Speaker 1: fresh air, just to be able to get back to
Speaker 1: your home country to play in the NBA. Like obviously
Speaker 1: NBA is still at this point what you want to
Speaker 1: get to, but to be able to get back after
Speaker 1: this crazy, hectic, best scenario experience you've had now being
Speaker 1: able to be back home and just almost reset to
Speaker 1: have another crackic trying to make it to the NBA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like bang on, It was a breath
Speaker 3: of fresh air. My mental space was so bad through
Speaker 3: those two years that, especially in Serbia, I got to
Speaker 3: the point where because it was brand new to me,
Speaker 3: I'd never dealt with any anxiety or anything like depression
Speaker 3: or anything like that before, so when I was there,
Speaker 3: it was new to me. I didn't know how to
Speaker 3: deal with it, and I didn't really reach out for
Speaker 3: too much help early on, and eventually I told my
Speaker 3: family halfway through the year. They came out and visited
Speaker 3: me for the first time in December or something like that,
Speaker 3: and I had them there for about two weeks and
Speaker 3: they left, and that period of them just leaving was
Speaker 3: like one of the darkest time in my life. And
Speaker 3: I had to call them and be like like I
Speaker 3: hate to do this to you and pull you guys
Speaker 3: out of your own life, but I need one of
Speaker 3: you over here at all times because I just can't
Speaker 3: be alone. Like I'm scared to be alone at this point.
Speaker 3: So I kind of get through that year and again
Speaker 3: like super scared to go back to Europe because I'm like,
Speaker 3: I just don't know if I can handle being alone,
Speaker 3: and I don't want my parents to, like, you know,
Speaker 3: because what happened was is Mum would come out for
Speaker 3: a month and then Dad would come out for a month,
Speaker 3: so they're not seeing each other for you know, a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks on end, and then my sister would
Speaker 3: come out for a month, and so I was pulling
Speaker 3: them out of their own lives. It just helped me
Speaker 3: get through that period, and like I owe them a
Speaker 3: shitload for that. But you know, Lithuania comes around and
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like, I just don't know if I
Speaker 3: can do this because I'm scared to be alone. So
Speaker 3: kind of have like a pretty stern word with myself
Speaker 3: and I'm like, no, I'm going to get through this
Speaker 3: ten month period solo. I need to prove to myself
Speaker 3: that I can do this, because if I can't do this,
Speaker 3: then like what's the point and even playing anymore, Like
Speaker 3: that's kind of a conversation I was having with myself,
Speaker 3: is if I can't get through this time period solo
Speaker 3: and like hack it out for you know, to do
Speaker 3: something that I'm supposed to love at the time, Like,
Speaker 3: what's the point? So I get through that seven month period,
Speaker 3: I haven't you know, I have a visited or a
Speaker 3: visitor or two with a couple of mates, but for
Speaker 3: the most part, I'm solo out there, and I think
Speaker 3: the people the thing that people don't understand is kind
Speaker 3: of how rough and tough the coaches are out there.
Speaker 3: So you go to work every day and you were
Speaker 3: just getting belittled and essentially bullied and anyways that that
Speaker 3: kind of all happens, and I get back to Australia
Speaker 3: and I'm just like, why would I overleave? Like what
Speaker 3: I got back to it. I get back during COVID
Speaker 3: and I'm like, wo would I leave this space? So
Speaker 3: you know, I spent I spent a month, month and
Speaker 3: a half up on the farm with my family during
Speaker 3: the initial stages of COVID, just fishing, fishing the days away.
Speaker 3: Essentially I was working out a little bit, but I
Speaker 3: definitely blew out with all the beers that I was
Speaker 3: drinking on the river. And then you know, come back
Speaker 3: down to Melbourne to kind of really start getting stuck
Speaker 3: into it because there's rumblings that I could be off,
Speaker 3: like getting off to the US. So I start getting
Speaker 3: back in shape and you know, lucky, lucky enough to
Speaker 3: meet my wife to be and it was just like
Speaker 3: another one of those things where it was like why
Speaker 3: would I leave. I've met her, you know, super happy
Speaker 3: in Australia. I've got my mates around, I've got all
Speaker 3: that around, and that's kind of what sparked the interest
Speaker 3: of well, if the NBA doesn't happen, like I'm playing
Speaker 3: the NBL for sure. So you know, that's where that's
Speaker 3: where I had to buy myself out of my contract
Speaker 3: and I was like, I was just because of my
Speaker 3: experiences out there. I think it would be a lot
Speaker 3: different now having someone with me, obviously, but because of
Speaker 3: my experiences for the past two years out there, I
Speaker 3: was like, I'm willing to give everything I've got to
Speaker 3: get out of that contract and go on playing the NBL.
Speaker 3: And on top of that, the NBL was doing a
Speaker 3: really good job of producing players to go and play
Speaker 3: in the NBA. So you know, I worked out with
Speaker 3: the Melbourne United Boys for essentially the whole time that
Speaker 3: COVID was going on, and some of my best mates
Speaker 3: nowadays are from that team and Chris Goulding, Dave Bali Barlow,
Speaker 3: a couple of the other boys. And it was the
Speaker 3: best decision I ever made, spending you know, a year,
Speaker 3: year and a half back back in Australia, meeting the missus,
Speaker 3: hanging out with all the fellas and reconnecting with the
Speaker 3: family was just the best thing that could have happened.
Speaker 3: And then fell in love with the sport again. Like
Speaker 3: that's That's the one thing that I'm super appreciative of
Speaker 3: is those days out in Europe. It was really hard
Speaker 3: to get up and about for these games and enjoy
Speaker 3: while I was there because I started blaming, blaming basketball
Speaker 3: for all of my mental struggles at the time. So
Speaker 3: you know, get out of there, go back to Australia
Speaker 3: and learn to lot everything again and lost was lost
Speaker 3: pretty good since then.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful, man.
Speaker 1: I think you always talking about the people you surround
Speaker 1: yourself and the rocks of friendships and partnerships and family
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and how it can, I guess
Speaker 1: give you so much energy and what you do for
Speaker 1: a living luck in.
Speaker 2: Basketball or football or sport or work, whatever.
Speaker 3: It might be.
Speaker 2: It's it's happy.
Speaker 1: I think whenever you found that person that supports you
Speaker 1: and no matter what, in that manner, like it just
Speaker 1: makes you go to another level and whenever you well,
Speaker 1: whatever you do to be honest and it's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: see giving back to a bit of the career and stuff.
Speaker 1: Fuck you go back to to Melbourne, you do that Melbourne,
Speaker 1: United Killer your year, absolutely smash it. And then you
Speaker 1: go to Tokyo for the Olympics. Now Tokyo and the Olympics
Speaker 1: wild talk, absolutely wild experience, Like did just show up
Speaker 1: there and there was just like what was what was it?
Speaker 3: FU?
Speaker 1: Walk me through because I think I've always been interested
Speaker 1: to know the details of what was happening over there
Speaker 1: because it was so unique of a situation that will
Speaker 1: never probably happen again in our lifetimes hopefully, And the
Speaker 1: whole country was shut down, but sport was still going on,
Speaker 1: and and like there was I guess anger was some
Speaker 1: of the people there, and then other people were excited
Speaker 1: that something was happening, Like what was your personal experiences?
Speaker 1: It wasn't it would have been Olympics unlike any other
Speaker 1: that will ever happen again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean I'll take it back a step
Speaker 3: further to our like pre Olympic kind of campaign. So
Speaker 3: finish the NBL season, I have four days to celebrate
Speaker 3: that championship, and I jet off to La touchdown in
Speaker 3: LA and we do like three days in LA with
Speaker 3: the squad, and we jump on a bus and we
Speaker 3: go to Vegas. So we to our camp out in Vegas,
Speaker 3: and the first day we get there, they essentially like
Speaker 3: our life in Vegas was on two floors in the
Speaker 3: hotel they blocked off for our squads, the men's and
Speaker 3: women's and and we weren't allowed outside of outside of
Speaker 3: that because the Olympic Committee said to essentially the whole world.
Speaker 3: They said, if you have COVID within two weeks in
Speaker 3: the build up to get into the Olympics, your whole
Speaker 3: squad retires. So if anyone on our team had COVID,
Speaker 3: the whole team gets taken out of the Olympics. And
Speaker 3: that's how strict they were being. So we're in Vegas,
Speaker 3: possibly the worst place in the world to be for
Speaker 3: COVID reasons, with all the nightclubs, the gambling, all that,
Speaker 3: and we couldn't do any of it. So it was
Speaker 3: hotel room. Jim back to the you know, we had
Speaker 3: a hangout area. All the boys would sit there, a
Speaker 3: couple of bottles of wine, plays in ping pong whatever
Speaker 3: it was, and then training and it was just the
Speaker 3: whole time. We were like that for two weeks inside
Speaker 3: of a Vegas hotel. Anyways, we made the whole like
Speaker 3: everyone was dreading the travel to the Olympics, because you know,
Speaker 3: Vegas to Jesus. I think we were Vegas Direct to Tokyo.
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't even remember, but I know it was
Speaker 3: LA Sorry, it's LA Director to the Tokyo. So we
Speaker 3: jump on a plane. We go back to LA flight
Speaker 3: to Tokyo, which is like I want to say, it's
Speaker 3: like eighteen hours or something like, oh, maybe not that much,
Speaker 3: maybe fourteen hours or something. No, no, no, no, that's but
Speaker 3: like nobody's flying at this point, so it's essentially a
Speaker 3: private jetular. So we we jump on a plane. We
Speaker 3: get there, and we're dreading this because they've told us
Speaker 3: once you get there, you've got to get screened for COVID.
Speaker 3: And when they screen, they mean go through this brutal
Speaker 3: like process of vaccination reports, like all this stuff. Then
Speaker 3: you have to go to the spit and swab and
Speaker 3: we do that and then they put us down just
Speaker 3: into a random terminal and they're like, right, wait here
Speaker 3: and we'll get your results. Mate. We waited in that
Speaker 3: terminal for nine and a half hours. We sat in
Speaker 3: that fucking terminal for nine and a half hours, and
Speaker 3: ours was the longest period. Now I heard America breeze
Speaker 3: through there in about our forty five we were there,
Speaker 3: not nine and a half hours we were there. So anyways,
Speaker 3: we get out of there, jump on a bus and
Speaker 3: we go to the village and everyone who's like asleep
Speaker 3: on this bus is dead, like we're hacking sacking in
Speaker 3: the airport, trying to kill time. It was a pisser,
Speaker 3: But get to the get to the village, and they
Speaker 3: are essentially they are essentially like, right, these are your
Speaker 3: hotels as we're staying, jump in these little golf carts
Speaker 3: and they take you to your your you take you
Speaker 3: to your dormitory or wherever the country is staying. May
Speaker 3: we pull up into this joint at probably like I
Speaker 3: don't know, it's probably two am, three am or something
Speaker 3: like that, and we walk into we walk into our
Speaker 3: our little room, and we're sleeping on cardboard boxes. So
Speaker 3: that's that's the first thing of like what have we
Speaker 3: got now? I was into so sleeping on cardboard boxes
Speaker 3: with this paper thin mattress. From there, it was just
Speaker 3: a bizarre experience. Like we do the you know, obviously
Speaker 3: I've not done another Olympics yet, but it'll be good
Speaker 3: to have a comparison in a year's time. But you know,
Speaker 3: we roll in and it's you can't mingle with other countries,
Speaker 3: like full stop. You can't spend time with them, nothing
Speaker 3: like that because they're really trying to just make sure
Speaker 3: no COVID has spread. The dining room. They've got like
Speaker 3: plastic boards up in front of your face, so you're
Speaker 3: all sectioned off in your own cubicles, like trying to
Speaker 3: yell over the over the plastic to the person in
Speaker 3: front of you to have a conversation. It's bizarre. You know,
Speaker 3: you've got to do COVID testing every now and again,
Speaker 3: like to really be sure. You know, you go to
Speaker 3: practice and they've they've completely sectioned every quarter from one another,
Speaker 3: so no, no teams are allowed to crossover whatsoever. You
Speaker 3: COVID screen in and out like temperature check and all that,
Speaker 3: in and out of the village. Like it was just bizarre.
Speaker 3: But the weirdest, the weirdest two things were, you know,
Speaker 3: a opening ceremony, like bizarre. We walked through this humongous stadium,
Speaker 3: straight through the guts of it, like all of the
Speaker 3: cool things happen on either side of us. But you
Speaker 3: look out at the stands and there's like fifteen twenty
Speaker 3: people kind of just like spotted around this stadium and
Speaker 3: you're just like, this just doesn't feel right, Like no
Speaker 3: roar of a crowd. They might have had a roar
Speaker 3: of a crowd playing on the speaker actually, but there's
Speaker 3: just no crowd kind of like yelling. They've got all
Speaker 3: this cool lights going on and stuff, but like there's
Speaker 3: you literally see like one person in one section. The
Speaker 3: next session there's maybe one up the top, one down
Speaker 3: the bottom, and it just looked like bizarre little flies
Speaker 3: on the wall or something like that. So that was
Speaker 3: that was really strange. And then the other weird thing
Speaker 3: was like, so the basketball stadium was probably like thirty
Speaker 3: five minutes outside of the village. The weirdest part was
Speaker 3: jumping on that going and driving along these freeways and
Speaker 3: looking down into like Tokyo and the streets are just naked,
Speaker 3: like not a person's fucking Tokyo. So we get we
Speaker 3: get to this, you know, on top of that, you
Speaker 3: get to the stadium and the stadium's empty. Now I
Speaker 3: was used to that at that point because the NBL
Speaker 3: we played pretty much for most of our final series
Speaker 3: with no fans, but mate, there was just like it
Speaker 3: was nothing. There was nobody around. You forgot what a
Speaker 3: crowd felt like, you forgot what interaction with other people
Speaker 3: felt like. And from what I've gathered, like most of
Speaker 3: the fun in the Olympics is you know, you swap
Speaker 3: pins with other countries and stuff, and you just weren't
Speaker 3: really allowed to do that because you couldn't mingle with them.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was really bizarre bzar setup where you've got,
Speaker 3: you know, all these people in a in a community,
Speaker 3: but you can't actually speak to any of them. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it was really strange.
Speaker 1: Did you feel like maybe the strange experience and the inability,
Speaker 1: I guess to be able to interact with other people,
Speaker 1: Like everyone talks about that Olympic culture of basketball, and
Speaker 1: you know what you've been, what they've been able to
Speaker 1: create there is why it's so successful. Do you think
Speaker 1: like that maybe the situation almost added to how close
Speaker 1: the team actually is because I feel like everyone's so
Speaker 1: supportive of every other person that's on there, and that's
Speaker 1: unlike I mean, like us say, it's pretty individualistic and
Speaker 1: they just go together for one part of the year
Speaker 1: and that's it and they move on. Like I feel
Speaker 1: like the Aussie team, like they're actually like friends and
Speaker 1: mates and they want to go well together as a team,
Speaker 1: and that's what makes it such a good like strong
Speaker 1: side and that I can only imagine. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to speak for yourself, you can speak for it, but
Speaker 1: like that experience of just the chaos in the nine
Speaker 1: and a half hours in the airport and like everything
Speaker 1: else that just added up to it, Like you essentially
Speaker 1: get to know everyone as mates at that point because
Speaker 1: you're spending so much time together.
Speaker 3: And you're just kind of telling yourself the whole time,
Speaker 3: like it's going to be a heck of the story
Speaker 3: once we come out of this thing with the metal, Like,
Speaker 3: imagine them what we We'll be able to tell our
Speaker 3: kids what we went through to get this blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: But yeah, exactly right. We Australia had they'd done our
Speaker 3: setup really well. But essentially downstairs, you know, you come
Speaker 3: back from the dining room along this straight road and
Speaker 3: then you kind of take like a like a real
Speaker 3: shallow turn and there's like this grass area and Australia
Speaker 3: had set up like a little coffee shop right there,
Speaker 3: so everyone you come back from your training, you come
Speaker 3: back from breakfast you come back from your event. Pretty
Speaker 3: much from like seven am onwards until like ten o'clock
Speaker 3: at night, that little area is just like packed with
Speaker 3: people having a coffee, having a drink whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: Now it was a dry campus. That was also bizarre,
Speaker 3: like they didn't want alcohol on because you couldn't get
Speaker 3: it from the outside world. I'm sure people snuck it in,
Speaker 3: but I mean we certainly did on the last night.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was like the whole time that little
Speaker 3: area was just pumping for Australia with coffees and then
Speaker 3: they had you know, three screens going with the with
Speaker 3: the various events on it, and that's where we all
Speaker 3: really mingled with one another within Australia. And you know,
Speaker 3: I feel as though that like I only all hear
Speaker 3: about the stories in the Olympics, how like it's all
Speaker 3: about going out, chasing tail and all of that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff. And like I feel as though because that
Speaker 3: experience was taken away for the most part, like you
Speaker 3: couldn't go and experience like getting to know somebody from
Speaker 3: another country or whatever. Like the whole Australian community really
Speaker 3: like became tight and we were all just hanging out
Speaker 3: with one another, getting around one another on the big screen.
Speaker 3: And the prime example of that was we came back
Speaker 3: from winning our bronze medal. We're walking through the rain
Speaker 3: with like we had some hilltop hoods or something going on,
Speaker 3: like on this big speaker, Like boys are walking through that.
Speaker 3: It was like something out of a fucking movie. I
Speaker 3: remember like being like kind of at the back of
Speaker 3: the pack, you know, double parked. We're like two long
Speaker 3: neck Asahi's or something like that, and you know, our
Speaker 3: young buck at the time, Josh Green's got this speaker
Speaker 3: of his shoulder. We were walking down the hilltop hoods
Speaker 3: and rain's pissing down and you just kind of see
Speaker 3: the lights from around the corner and then there's just
Speaker 3: like a hundred people just standing there like you know,
Speaker 3: rawing for us, like let's fucking go, and then we
Speaker 3: just like slam the speakers down and we just start
Speaker 3: like and there's this there's a video that went out
Speaker 3: about us, and we're all just down there like dancing
Speaker 3: to this music. And just like the night just launched
Speaker 3: after that, because it was what we were one of
Speaker 3: the last events to finished. So we finished that. We
Speaker 3: come back to like this warm welcome from Australia, and
Speaker 3: it was just on for fucking young and old. After that, I'm.
Speaker 1: Real video Patty Mills is having a few drinks and stuff,
Speaker 1: having a grand old time.
Speaker 2: Forget. I'm like, you never see that, you never see
Speaker 2: that side of them.
Speaker 3: But that's rare from Patty, mate, that is rare from Paddy.
Speaker 3: So when you finally get Paddy, I mean, I haven't
Speaker 3: got some great Paddy Mills stories that you won't want
Speaker 3: me to tell, but when you get that out of Paddy,
Speaker 3: like he can go with the best of them. So yeah,
Speaker 3: that was that was high level. Like for the most part,
Speaker 3: everyone was bloody dialed in. And even when we were
Speaker 3: like you know, hanging out and having free time, we
Speaker 3: were typically like in our own little click. We were
Speaker 3: all so like so dialed in that we were just
Speaker 3: like not like, you know, the partying and stuff can wait,
Speaker 3: Like we need to get this medal now, like this
Speaker 3: is our year to get this medal and we're not
Speaker 3: going to let it slip. So yeah, no, we were
Speaker 3: pretty locked in. But it's it's it's a good time.
Speaker 3: It was a good time and I'm pumped for Parish.
Speaker 1: Paris is going to be unreal. Now you've got a
Speaker 1: bit of a rivalry going with the US. I feel
Speaker 1: like people here just want to just to show the
Speaker 1: US and you did beat America here in Melbourne. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was at that game and ship that was awkward
Speaker 1: for me. That much trash talk all the way out
Speaker 1: of that joint. Well, I'm half Australia now I've got
Speaker 1: the dual citizenship. But people have drilled me after that
Speaker 1: just saying I was a terrible human. But it's a
Speaker 1: bit of a rivalry now. Like obviously, like America is
Speaker 1: a stronghold on the on the basketball side of things,
Speaker 1: but Australia's really pushing them and taking them to the limit. Now, like,
Speaker 1: have you been able to train with the team together since,
Speaker 1: Like are you kind of getting in the point now
Speaker 1: your year out where you're now kind of getting your
Speaker 1: mind ready for that side of things and really prepping
Speaker 1: to hopefully when you know, go one two further, maybe
Speaker 1: won a gold medal in this Olympic Games coming out
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 3: That's the plan. Now we haven't we haven't earn any
Speaker 3: chance to get together in practice that that kind of
Speaker 3: happens this offseason. So this offseason we've got the World Cup,
Speaker 3: and the World Cup is whilst it's a big deal
Speaker 3: for us, it's a little bit of a tune up
Speaker 3: for the Olympics. So you know, we come together in
Speaker 3: Australia this off season and I think we own up
Speaker 3: to Cans for our for our camp for two weeks.
Speaker 3: There'll be like a bit of a selection camp for
Speaker 3: a few days and then we'll put together a bit
Speaker 3: more of a camp with the squad itself and really
Speaker 3: piece it together and then we come back to Melbourne,
Speaker 3: we'll run run a couple of games and Rod Laver
Speaker 3: Arena and then and then we jet off for the
Speaker 3: World Cup. So the World cup's really you know, it's
Speaker 3: a chance to get to know one another and gain
Speaker 3: a little bit of that camaraderie that you know you
Speaker 3: have in the years prior and with a lot of
Speaker 3: a lot of the players and mainstays, like you know,
Speaker 3: we all know how to play with one another and
Speaker 3: it's really easy to play with one another. Is the
Speaker 3: thing that we probably don't realize is the way that
Speaker 3: we play as an Australian national team is really really
Speaker 3: tough and sharing the ball and all of that stuff,
Speaker 3: and it's never about one blog, so it becomes really
Speaker 3: really easy to gell and that's what you find in camp.
Speaker 3: You walk in there and you're just like, it's like,
Speaker 3: I've been playing with these blogs for years. So yeah,
Speaker 3: the World Cup really is that time to get familiar
Speaker 3: with one another again and kind of get on track.
Speaker 1: There's rumors there's going to be some big superstars coming
Speaker 1: to us, given the fact that's in the time zone
Speaker 1: of kind of similar times on us too, did Japan?
Speaker 1: I think where the World Cup's going to be played,
Speaker 1: and Tim will tell, Tom will tell what big names
Speaker 1: come around and what big teams come out here. But
Speaker 1: we'll get into the next side of things, like it's
Speaker 1: we haven't even talked about it. Mate, your NBA career,
Speaker 1: Like what you're doing now. You play for the Phoenix Suns,
Speaker 1: which is a hell of an accomplishment, and you're on
Speaker 1: a superstar list of a team. I mean, you've got
Speaker 1: people all in that, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul
Speaker 1: d'andre sorry, DeAndre Payton, Like there's DeAndre and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people there that are in the mainstays well
Speaker 1: known people in the NBA circles how is it now
Speaker 1: being on a team that has superstars surrounded yourself, Like,
Speaker 1: do you kind of feel like you're playing you got
Speaker 1: to play up to that level, you know of these
Speaker 1: people that are have been around for a long time
Speaker 1: and played the lot of NBA All Star Games and
Speaker 1: things along that nature.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, it definitely is a little bit of
Speaker 3: added pressure to keep up with the best of them,
Speaker 3: especially when when you know you're trying to win a championship.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, like, mate, some of the
Speaker 3: easiest basketball I've ever played in regards to like how
Speaker 3: many open shots I'm able to you know, get in
Speaker 3: the game because you know, I'm just I'm just a
Speaker 3: bum from Australia who's like on this team trying to
Speaker 3: just like you know, fill in the blanks, and you know,
Speaker 3: everything is directed at how do we stop Kevin Durant,
Speaker 3: How do we stop Devin Booker, How do we stop
Speaker 3: Chris Paul, How do we stop DeAndre Aid? And so
Speaker 3: you throw me out there with you know a lot
Speaker 3: of the times my rotations are with Kevin and and
Speaker 3: book and it's just like everything gets you know, everyone's
Speaker 3: looking at them, and I just kind of like find
Speaker 3: my way through the gaps, and that's that's where I'm
Speaker 3: really at my best, is when I'm able to just
Speaker 3: kind of like beat an intangibles guy. And you know,
Speaker 3: that's that's really played into my my strengths this year,
Speaker 3: and I think that's why I've had such a good
Speaker 3: season is that I've been able to play with such
Speaker 3: high caliber players such as these two, who are willing
Speaker 3: to move off the ball and you know, get other
Speaker 3: people involved and they kind of let the game come
Speaker 3: to them, whereas a lot of circumstars will really try
Speaker 3: and force the point and you know, carry a team
Speaker 3: like book and Booking and KD. We know there. You
Speaker 3: know they're going to get there is no matter what.
Speaker 3: But they're also super willing to be like no right here,
Speaker 3: it is like go do your thing as well. So mate,
Speaker 3: it's been the perfect storm. You know. I probably wasn't
Speaker 3: meant to be here at the start of the year.
Speaker 3: Came in and really impressed the crap out of them
Speaker 3: from day one, and as soon as I got traded here,
Speaker 3: I was like, right, I'm going in to prove my
Speaker 3: case and let them know that, like I'm here to stay.
Speaker 3: I want to stay. So did a great job of
Speaker 3: that through training camp. Had was just paying at the
Speaker 3: peak of my career at that point, and you know,
Speaker 3: the earn their trust, and I think that's super hard
Speaker 3: to do on a contending team. It's to be essentially
Speaker 3: a new you know, a brand new player in the
Speaker 3: NBA NBA and come in and earn the trust of
Speaker 3: the coach and your teammates to you know, do what
Speaker 3: I've done this year. So I'm pumped. You know, job's
Speaker 3: definitely not over yet, but yeah, well I'm in a
Speaker 3: really good, good spot for right now, and I think
Speaker 3: the teams really start to put it together and you know,
Speaker 3: hopefully we can make a huge push in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: It's exciting times.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: It's a credit to you because I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think a lot of people quite understand how hard it
Speaker 1: is to break it into the NBA and play well
Speaker 1: in the NBA and and get that trust of a team.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's not an easy thing if you're a
Speaker 1: superstar maybe, but like whenever, you know, you've got to
Speaker 1: work your ass off to get to that point to
Speaker 1: be trusted by coach.
Speaker 2: It's something very hard.
Speaker 1: I've known a lot of people have tried to do
Speaker 1: it and haven't been successful, but it's it's amazing to
Speaker 1: see good people like yourself, you know, put in the time,
Speaker 1: put in the effort and be.
Speaker 2: Able to represent Australia on the on the global level.
Speaker 2: Like I don't think.
Speaker 1: People realize how big it is what you're doing over there,
Speaker 1: especially here in Australia, and it's a it's a credit
Speaker 1: to you, man, and I'm stoked. I'll start, Man, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a excuse my French. It's gonna be a
Speaker 1: fucking good playoffs. I'm not gonna lot.
Speaker 3: Oh man, it's gonna be good. It's a good stiff
Speaker 3: that we get paid up with arguably one of the
Speaker 3: other best two teams in the in the Western Conference.
Speaker 3: But Clippers are gonna be tough, man. They're they're a
Speaker 3: heck of a team and if they get pulled George back,
Speaker 3: it'll be it'll be a serious, serious battle. So I'm
Speaker 3: excuse my French. I'm fucking pumped. I think I probably
Speaker 3: should have said excuse my French a few few more
Speaker 3: times in this podcast. But yeah, it's going to be
Speaker 3: unreal to get to do it here in Phoenix, which
Speaker 3: you know arguably top top three four fan bases. And
Speaker 3: I'm not doing that to earn the love fans or
Speaker 3: anything like that, but they are can mental when they
Speaker 3: want to be. So to be able to do it
Speaker 3: here for you know, up to twenty eight games is awesome.
Speaker 3: And then to go to the you know, the big
Speaker 3: scene in LA and do it there for a first
Speaker 3: round of the playoffs, like this is my first playoffs
Speaker 3: ever and this is what I get to do. It's
Speaker 3: it's yeah, very very excited and appreciative and just stoked
Speaker 3: with the opportunity.
Speaker 1: The absolutely pinnacle man and Dan, We're excited for you, well,
Speaker 1: cheering you on a rooting I don't know if you
Speaker 1: can stay routing you on nowadays.
Speaker 3: We might be cutting it close on that one.
Speaker 1: I think maybe you could have get away with it
Speaker 1: being in America now, but I can't do it here
Speaker 1: in Australia. But well, maturity, It's it's exciting times for you,
Speaker 1: exciting time of your life man, and for myself, I'm
Speaker 1: sure everyone else here.
Speaker 2: We just want to wish you all the best.
Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing, like I said, what you've done, and
Speaker 1: we're super proud of you and I want to wish
Speaker 1: you all the best with the final series to come.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it, Thanks for having me on M