WEBVTT - Should online gambling ads be banned?

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 1>Bunjelung calcotton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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<v Speaker 2>Just a heads up before we start this episode, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to discuss gambling and mental health. If you need support,

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<v Speaker 2>you can call Gambling Help on one eight hundred eight

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<v Speaker 2>five eight eight five eight, or you can call Lifeline

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<v Speaker 2>on thirteen eleven fourteen.

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<v Speaker 3>Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. Happy Friday.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the thirtieth of June. I'm Sam, I'm Nina. Advertisements

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<v Speaker 3>for online gambling are everywhere, especially in the world of sports.

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<v Speaker 1>Bet three six five, the world's favorite online sports paying company.

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<v Speaker 2>It couldn't be easier. Sports BET's bat was Mike's you

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<v Speaker 2>just gotch your eye money and run.

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<v Speaker 3>But now a parliamentary committee wants to ban all ads

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<v Speaker 3>for online gambling. It says these ads are damaging to

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<v Speaker 3>the community, but the gambling industry and even sports bodies

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<v Speaker 3>have a lot to lose. We'll tell you what you

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<v Speaker 3>need to know in today's Deep Dive, But first, Nina,

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<v Speaker 3>what's making headlines this morning?

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<v Speaker 2>The new South Wales corruption watchdog has found that former

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<v Speaker 2>Premier Gladysbury Jicklian committed serious corrupt conduct and breached public trust.

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<v Speaker 2>AIKEAK didn't identify any conduct by Barry Jicklian which warranted

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<v Speaker 2>criminal prosecution. It did, however, recommend prosecution be considered against

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<v Speaker 2>former MP Daryl Maguire. And if you're confused about all

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<v Speaker 2>of this, go back and listen to yesterday's episode where

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<v Speaker 2>we explained it all in the Deep Dive.

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<v Speaker 3>Ben Robert Smith has agreed to pay the legal costs

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<v Speaker 3>of the three Australian newspapers he brought defamation proceedings against.

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<v Speaker 3>The prominent former Australian soldier was un successful in an

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<v Speaker 3>attempt to sue The Cydney Morning Herald, The Age and

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<v Speaker 3>The Canberra Times. The newspaper's legal fees could be in

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<v Speaker 3>the tens of millions of dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>At least seventy seven people have been arrested in France

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<v Speaker 2>amidst days of unrest and protests against local law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 2>It comes after police shot dead a seventeen year old boy.

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<v Speaker 2>French President Emmanuel mccron described the shooting as unforgivable.

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<v Speaker 3>And some Friday good news for you. Four time Olympic

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<v Speaker 3>gold medalist Simone Biles will return to gymnastics later this year.

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<v Speaker 3>The American last competed at the Tokyo Olympics back in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty one and stepped away to focus on her

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<v Speaker 3>mental health. Her return will be at the start of August.

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<v Speaker 3>A parliamentary committee has recommended a total ban on all

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<v Speaker 3>advertising for online gambling. This committee had a close look

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<v Speaker 3>at the harm online gambling was causing and found it

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<v Speaker 3>was in their works wreaking havoc in Australian communities.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 3>Particular concern was this link between gambling and psychological harm

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<v Speaker 3>and even suicide.

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<v Speaker 2>How big exactly is the world of online gambling?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we're the world's biggest gamblers. We lose twenty five

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<v Speaker 3>billion dollars a year and online gambling accounts for a

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<v Speaker 3>growing share of these losses. Have a think about this.

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<v Speaker 3>Almost half of Australian's surveyed in twenty twenty two placed

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<v Speaker 3>a bet on sports or racing, and three times as

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<v Speaker 3>many of us gamble online today compared to a decade ago.

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<v Speaker 2>What I think I struggle with as a non sports

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<v Speaker 2>fan is actually what this looks like at events in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. Can you paint a picture of how integrated

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<v Speaker 2>these betting sites and this betting promotion actually is.

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<v Speaker 3>Wherever you're watching sport, there is a presence, an omnipresent

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<v Speaker 3>presence of sports gambling ads around you. You know, if

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<v Speaker 3>you go into a live sports game, when you walk

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<v Speaker 3>into the stadium, there's often carts there where you can

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<v Speaker 3>place a bet, and then those screens that kind of

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<v Speaker 3>win around the stadium, they'll often have sports advertising on them.

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<v Speaker 3>You've got announcements of the odds on the screens. It's huge. Then,

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<v Speaker 3>if you're watching on the couch at home, you're constantly

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<v Speaker 3>updated by even commentators. Sometimes on the odds of the game.

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<v Speaker 3>They'll say things like, you know, we're bringing you this

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<v Speaker 3>halftime update courtesy of betting agency X, And they'll say, well,

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<v Speaker 3>this team's in front and they're paying a dollar ninety

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<v Speaker 3>right now, so it might be worth placing a bet.

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<v Speaker 3>And then they always say, you know, their disclosures. Gamble

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<v Speaker 3>responsibly make sure you consider the impacts of this bet

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<v Speaker 3>before you place it. But there's absolutely no doubting that

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<v Speaker 3>sports betting is intertwined with Australian sport.

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<v Speaker 2>And so when the Parliamentary Committee started looking at this

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<v Speaker 2>world of sports betting and that advertising that promotes it,

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<v Speaker 2>what's really driving that investigation? What do they say the

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<v Speaker 2>risks are of this kind of prolific messaging.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, they seem to be anchoring their findings on this

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<v Speaker 3>idea that two thirds of those who gamble on sports

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<v Speaker 3>are at risk of gambling related harm and that includes

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<v Speaker 3>things like addiction, relationship breakdown and financial hardship. And it's

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<v Speaker 3>particularly young men who are at risk. Those who gamble

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<v Speaker 3>have a suicide risk four times greater than those who don't.

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<v Speaker 3>So when this Gambling Inquiry asked for submissions, there were

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<v Speaker 3>people with first hand experience of the impacts of gambling

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<v Speaker 3>who are writing in. There was one submission from a

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<v Speaker 3>man called Jeremy Ryan from Perth who wrote, not long

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<v Speaker 3>after my sixteenth birthday, gambling took an unrelenting hold on

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<v Speaker 3>me and has continued to ruin and rule my life

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<v Speaker 3>for the past eleven years. He said, I can't watch television.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't watch sport, I can't go on social media,

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<v Speaker 3>I can't listen to the radio. It is truly, truly

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<v Speaker 3>astounding the stranglehold these evil and avaricious companies have on

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<v Speaker 3>everyday Australians like myself.

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<v Speaker 2>It's crazy to think of someone getting started in all

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<v Speaker 2>of this at sixteen and then being inundated with messages

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<v Speaker 2>for the rest of your life. What rules currently exist

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<v Speaker 2>around this online gambling space and the way that they're promoted.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, according to the Committee, while there is regulation around

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<v Speaker 3>the advertising of online sports gambling, it's inconsistent. So for example,

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<v Speaker 3>rules are set out by a combination of federal and

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<v Speaker 3>state and territory governments and self imposed gambling industry codes

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<v Speaker 3>of conduct. Now, in general, there are a few limitations

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<v Speaker 3>on what gambling platforms can offer. So there's one key regulation,

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<v Speaker 3>which is no in game betting and on when they

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<v Speaker 3>can advertise. So there's a ban on sports betting advertisings

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<v Speaker 3>during life play, but you're allowed before, after the game

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<v Speaker 3>and during breaks so in halftime.

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<v Speaker 2>So those are the rules that are currently in place.

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<v Speaker 2>What reform did the committee call for in their recommendations.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, amongst the several recommendations made by the committee. There

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<v Speaker 3>was a call for a total ban on all forms

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<v Speaker 3>of online gambling advertising and inducements.

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<v Speaker 2>And what is an inducement? I get an ad, but

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<v Speaker 2>what's the inducement.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, inducements are those special offers that are designed to

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<v Speaker 3>encourage betting. So think of things like a bonus or

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<v Speaker 3>an early payout offer, or multis which is several bets

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<v Speaker 3>grouped together with a higher potential winning, and even something

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<v Speaker 3>like a loyalty program. And these are things you hear

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<v Speaker 3>being promoted a lot. And the committee recommends phasing these

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<v Speaker 3>out over the next three years, but suggested an exemption

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<v Speaker 3>for dedicated racing channels and a temporary exemption for small

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<v Speaker 3>community radio broadcasters.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's fair to assume the gambling industry is

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<v Speaker 2>not going to be stoked about these proposed reforms. What

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<v Speaker 2>have we heard so far?

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<v Speaker 3>No, of course they're not stoked. This impacts their bottom lines.

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<v Speaker 3>So the betting Industry Lobby group opposed the ban, and

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<v Speaker 3>they asked for caps on how many gambling ads can

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<v Speaker 3>be shown instead of this blanket ban, and in response

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<v Speaker 3>to that, the committee argued that partial bands could then

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<v Speaker 3>be easily avoided for example, when in sport gambling was

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<v Speaker 3>banned in twenty seventeen, and to give you a sense

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<v Speaker 3>of what that looked like, if you're watching live sport

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<v Speaker 3>during the game, there'd be those tickers at the bottom

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<v Speaker 3>of the screen that would tell you exactly what the

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<v Speaker 3>payouts could be or what the odds are in live time.

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<v Speaker 3>So those were banned in twenty seventeen, but we actually

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<v Speaker 3>saw an increase in sports betting after that because what

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<v Speaker 3>sports betting companies would do is they would buy up

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<v Speaker 3>more spots outside of the in play times, particularly halftime.

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<v Speaker 3>We've seen a big change to what halftime looks like

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<v Speaker 3>since that band was introduced.

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<v Speaker 2>In order for these reforms to come into effect, they

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<v Speaker 2>need to be introduced in past in parliament. Do they

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<v Speaker 2>have political support?

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<v Speaker 3>The minister responsible here is Michelle Rowland. She's responsible for

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<v Speaker 3>gambling regulation and she wouldn't give an indication whether she

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<v Speaker 3>supported the ban, but she did say the government would

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<v Speaker 3>consider the report and its recommendations in full.

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<v Speaker 2>What about sports bodies, because you've painted this picture of

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<v Speaker 2>how it integrated this advertising of gambling is in the

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<v Speaker 2>sports world. How sports bodies themselves likely to be impacted

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<v Speaker 2>by potential reforms.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, they have a lot to lose, and we know

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<v Speaker 3>a lot more of than we did a couple of

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<v Speaker 3>weeks ago because of an investigation by four Corners which

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<v Speaker 3>revealed some really deep ties between the sporting bodies and

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<v Speaker 3>gambling organizations. And what this investigation found was that agreements

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<v Speaker 3>between sporting bodies, so we're talking here about like the

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<v Speaker 3>NRL or the AFL Cricket Australia, they can earn a

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<v Speaker 3>commission of up to seventeen point five percent of profits

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<v Speaker 3>from Australians gambling on their events.

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<v Speaker 2>That's huge.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So there's a bit of a kickpack there and

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<v Speaker 3>almost competing interests in sporting bodies getting large amounts of

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<v Speaker 3>money for allowing online gambling to exist within their sport.

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<v Speaker 3>So to give you an example of how this actually

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<v Speaker 3>could work, according to the ABC's report, Football Australia gets

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<v Speaker 3>either one percent of every bet placed in Australia on

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<v Speaker 3>the soccer game or fifteen percent of the bookmakers profit.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're making money off that gambling, even if the

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<v Speaker 2>gambling companies aren't necessarily profiting exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And that kind of gives you an understanding of how

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<v Speaker 3>these sporting bodies might be incentivized to push back on

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<v Speaker 3>banning ads for online gambling.

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<v Speaker 2>SAM as society moves to trying to separate gamblings from

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<v Speaker 2>sport and the experience of sport. Do you think that

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<v Speaker 2>it'll impact the way you and people in Australia consume

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<v Speaker 2>sport and enjoy sport.

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<v Speaker 3>I think about this a lot. What I've noticed with

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<v Speaker 3>sports gambling in the last couple of years is it

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<v Speaker 3>is slowly moving from dominantly public spaces like actual events

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<v Speaker 3>and television broadcasts, the gambling itself, the ads for the

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<v Speaker 3>gambling services into more private spaces, and the ways that

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<v Speaker 3>some of the gambling companies are doing that is by

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<v Speaker 3>offering it to be a group activity. So the idea

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<v Speaker 3>that you can place bets with your mates and talk

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<v Speaker 3>about it and actually ride that win or loss together,

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<v Speaker 3>I think is really trying to socialize gambling. And so

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<v Speaker 3>I think what we can learn from that is that

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<v Speaker 3>even if this regulation does come through, we're still going

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<v Speaker 3>to see it exist on that kind of matship level.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're talking about this sense of community that exists

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<v Speaker 2>when everyone's supporting your team and they've got stakes in

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<v Speaker 2>the game because their money is now on whoever wins

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<v Speaker 2>or loses. Is there a way or can that exist

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<v Speaker 2>if people aren't gambling with money.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it can and I've been involved in a

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<v Speaker 3>tipping competition with a big group of friends for many

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<v Speaker 3>many years now and no money changes hands, and it

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<v Speaker 3>still allows us to engage in that who's going to win,

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<v Speaker 3>who's going to lose, how's your team going, who's winning

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<v Speaker 3>in the table without there being money on the line.

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<v Speaker 2>If this episode brought up anything for you, you can call

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<v Speaker 2>Gambling Help on one eight hundred eighty five eight eight

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<v Speaker 2>five eight, or you can call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS today. Have

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<v Speaker 3>a great weekend, and if you enjoy this podcast, it

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<v Speaker 3>would really help us if you left a review on Apple,

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<v Speaker 3>Spotify or wherever you're listening, and we'll speak to you

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<v Speaker 3>on Monday.