Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload, the podcast past deep their line Welcome back
Speaker 1: guys to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and
Speaker 1: this is your podcast to get all the inside goss
Speaker 1: on the popular TV shows you may be watching from
Speaker 1: around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are a major
Speaker 1: part of our home entertainment, and yet very little is
Speaker 1: known about how our favorite shows get made. So each episode,
Speaker 1: I've been finding guests that what did I have just
Speaker 1: that little bit deeper into the shows they're currently making,
Speaker 1: so that you can hear all their exclusive stories and
Speaker 1: gain access to the biggest names in Australian television. I
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Speaker 1: This chat, I'm joined by executive producer of Safe Home
Speaker 1: on SBS, Image and Banks. Imagen is a TV content
Speaker 1: creator and a bit of a god amongst astrand television,
Speaker 1: who I've dreamt about having on the podcast for many years.
Speaker 1: I loved her work on Puberty Blues a devoured offspring
Speaker 1: like many other people, and I've rewatched Tangled countless times,
Speaker 1: and all these shows you can catch up on streaming platforms. However,
Speaker 1: today I'm here to discuss her collaboration with Anna Barnes
Speaker 1: on the project for SBS called Safe Home. Safe Home
Speaker 1: is an Australian drama mini series set to air on
Speaker 1: SBS this Thursday night at seven point thirty. It follows
Speaker 1: the story of a twenty somethingter professional who leaves her
Speaker 1: job at a prominent law firm to work at a
Speaker 1: struggling family violence legal center. The show tackles family violence,
Speaker 1: power quality and feature some of the best performances I've
Speaker 1: ever seen on television. I will ask Imagen about the
Speaker 1: success of Offspring, Puberty Blues and Tangle, and while we
Speaker 1: never see multiple series runs of our favorite homegrown content,
Speaker 1: we will talk about how the show came about and
Speaker 1: how they managed to tackle domestic violence, which is a
Speaker 1: very difficult subject matter. We will also discuss if having
Speaker 1: a bankable star is necessary when getting shows funded in
Speaker 1: Australia and why this particular cast we're able to knock
Speaker 1: this out of the park. Plus, we will get plenty
Speaker 1: of exclusives from behind the scenes of Safe Home, which
Speaker 1: I can tell you is my favorite series of television
Speaker 1: this year so far. However, let's bring image into the
Speaker 1: podcast and get these formalities out of the way, and
Speaker 1: I really hope you enjoy this episode. Hi, Imagen, how
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 2: I'm very well. How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good? Thank you? Sorry? I should I often say
Speaker 1: how are you to people, but you never really care
Speaker 1: and you're already onto the next.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I know, it's such a redumbic quest. Just at anyway,
Speaker 2: I'm great, I'm glad.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad. And I have to say right off
Speaker 1: the bat, I am such a big fan of your
Speaker 1: work and of all the shows. I mean, all the
Speaker 1: shows that you have done are a masterclass of Australian television.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I've watched Tangle and Puberty Blues and Offspring so many
Speaker 1: times I can't even tell you. There M go to
Speaker 1: when my partner goes into another room and watches something horrific,
Speaker 1: like a scary movie that no one wants to watch. Honestly,
Speaker 1: just amazing TV shows. One.
Speaker 2: I think you should mentioned Tangle because I literally got
Speaker 2: a tasket.
Speaker 3: About an hour ago from.
Speaker 2: John Brawley, who was the Bokay on Tangle.
Speaker 3: Just say Tangle series four, which could just tune into
Speaker 3: their lives now.
Speaker 1: Out of those shows, because you know ed Oxenbold talks
Speaker 1: about you know, he tried to get puberty Blues back
Speaker 1: up and going, and everyone talks about Offspring all Brindina back.
Speaker 1: But for me, I loved Tangle. I just honestly we
Speaker 1: need a season four because the characters were so rich.
Speaker 1: It just felt like you were ripping real life.
Speaker 2: Well we probably were. That's the point, isn't it exactly.
Speaker 2: That's the joy of the story. Yeah, we are.
Speaker 3: And it's funny because you don't often think about I
Speaker 3: don't know, you're always so busy working that that really
Speaker 3: you don't really look back very often.
Speaker 1: Or I got, what did working on Tangle teach you
Speaker 1: though about working on scripto drama here in Australia.
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because I actually hadn't been around as
Speaker 3: a producer for long before that at all.
Speaker 2: That was really the first show that I.
Speaker 3: Was involved in the development of. I made a show
Speaker 3: before that, because it took longer to get Tangled up.
Speaker 3: But I made a fock sape show called Dangerous, which
Speaker 3: was the first thing that I was ever involved in
Speaker 3: as a producer, and I co produced that, and that
Speaker 3: was very much my training ground. But Tangle is being
Speaker 3: developed over the court of that. So Tangle kind of
Speaker 3: taught me everything. It taught me what the story room is.
Speaker 3: It taught me how to work with writers. That taught
Speaker 3: me how to kind of integrate stories from life into drama.
Speaker 2: It taught me a lot about direction, actually a lot
Speaker 2: of learned. I learned a lot about.
Speaker 3: Directors and how directors work from Tangle in a way
Speaker 3: that I think when I was in Dangerous, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously I learned a fusion out on that,
Speaker 3: but I was I was that was very much a
Speaker 3: sinkle to be in kind of you know, just like
Speaker 3: hold your breath and go for it and hope the
Speaker 3: best I learned about casting, you know, I learned how
Speaker 3: about the different decisions that you can make about you know,
Speaker 3: who you work with, and how that kind of impacts
Speaker 3: and affect the on screen dynamic.
Speaker 1: I remember the last season three to me just sort
Speaker 1: of built and built and built, and then a lot
Speaker 1: of that came down to these performances of these young
Speaker 1: people who some of them never worked before, I.
Speaker 3: Know, and most of them still working out to all
Speaker 3: though incredibly you know, I mean, I love, love love
Speaker 3: bucking to you know, Lincoln, you feel because of the him,
Speaker 3: you know, I've seen it all sorts of being and
Speaker 3: he's just such a divid human and I love for
Speaker 3: such a big three Roger Blood, you know, I mean
Speaker 3: that most of them have gone on to keep working.
Speaker 3: I think that just something that you were saying before
Speaker 3: about season three. The things that I've most learned Entangled
Speaker 3: was about serious television. You know, it was the first
Speaker 3: time that I've been involved in show that it has
Speaker 3: been longer.
Speaker 2: Than one season. It's that idea of iteration and the lessons.
Speaker 3: That you learn in season one and how you take
Speaker 3: them into the development of season two and you lean
Speaker 3: into things that you've noticed, things that are working. You
Speaker 3: try and sort of push away from things that weren't.
Speaker 3: No ideas that didn't land in the way that.
Speaker 2: You hope they would. You see relationships.
Speaker 3: Form, and I don't mean, you know, I don't mean
Speaker 3: the romantic relationship. Who has been sort of relationships between
Speaker 3: characters on screen that you haven't really considered because you
Speaker 3: were focusing on another plot or another sort of storyline
Speaker 3: that was being developed.
Speaker 2: So you see opportunity.
Speaker 3: In a season that you're then taken to the next season.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the most.
Speaker 3: Fun things about serious television is that is that you
Speaker 3: get to kind of play with these people that suddenly
Speaker 3: exist in the world, you know, outside of outside.
Speaker 2: Of the collective imagination of a group of people make
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 3: They suddenly sort of they are there as characters, and
Speaker 3: so you get to.
Speaker 2: Sit around and consider what you might want seem to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been very lucky, I think in lots
Speaker 1: of ways with the shows. I mean, Offspring had an
Speaker 1: amazing one, like it just kept coming back and people
Speaker 1: kept being more and more involved with these characters. But
Speaker 1: why do you think that shows in Australia don't usually
Speaker 1: see a run as long as something like Offspring?
Speaker 3: Look, it's partly to do with the sort of the
Speaker 3: structural or the structure of the industry. It was partners
Speaker 3: to do with the way that's sort of the tax
Speaker 3: off set work, partners to do with the way that
Speaker 3: options worked with cast. I mean, all of these things change,
Speaker 3: and they have changed since we made Offspring, but at
Speaker 3: the time, you know, I mean it's kind of boring,
Speaker 3: but it's to do with contracts in the way that
Speaker 3: even option actors for three seasons within three years, and
Speaker 3: so those things sort of limit or not a limit,
Speaker 3: but they sort of they I suppose they informed the
Speaker 3: decisions that you make about the way that series works.
Speaker 3: And it was sort of there were some tax advantages
Speaker 3: that ran out at a certain number of episodes, so
Speaker 3: it sort of become harder and harder and harder finance things.
Speaker 3: So a lot of the time it's structural. You know,
Speaker 3: it's got nothing to do with wills. That is to
Speaker 3: do with you know, the way that financing happens.
Speaker 1: You know, it was at a time where Asha Ketty
Speaker 1: was just really hot property, and I guess, yes, we've
Speaker 1: got to see her do party tricks and a lot
Speaker 1: of other things as well. But she must have really
Speaker 1: loved that character to come back, and so must have
Speaker 1: Kat Stewart, you know, you know, option them, and you
Speaker 1: can offer actors money. They have to love these characters
Speaker 1: and want to come back.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say sort of, you know,
Speaker 3: I say all of that, but then most of the
Speaker 3: pass were out of option on Offspring, and you know,
Speaker 3: and they collectively decided to come back. One of your
Speaker 3: jobs of a producer is to create an environment for
Speaker 3: people want to work it, you know. I mean you're
Speaker 3: managing groups of people, and I do think that, you know,
Speaker 3: because if you want to keep people happy and you
Speaker 3: want to keep working with people, then yeah, you have
Speaker 3: to kind of create an environment people.
Speaker 2: Want to return to. So and also you want to
Speaker 2: be making show because.
Speaker 3: People love, you know, seeing anyone to create characters. You
Speaker 3: want the writers to creact characters that you know, cast
Speaker 3: want to inhabit.
Speaker 2: So Nina was such a big part of Ash's.
Speaker 3: Life so long, Billy was such a big part of
Speaker 3: cat Fluff so long.
Speaker 2: It's hard to give that up.
Speaker 1: You ask people like so I felt, you know, they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we have to we have done at that point. But
Speaker 1: truth be told, you know, I've heard from other people
Speaker 1: that have met Joey Lewis Droppers and Jerry Seinfeld, and
Speaker 1: they're like they want to get out when they get out,
Speaker 1: but then they're like, it's in there, fiber, it's in
Speaker 1: their bones.
Speaker 3: It's also that.
Speaker 2: Thing that you know, those relationships stuff.
Speaker 3: At that point, you know, it's not like real people
Speaker 3: in the real world where you can check in and
Speaker 3: see what they're up to and how they've aged and
Speaker 3: what their relationships, you know, and all the rest of it.
Speaker 3: You know, those lives stop the moment that you stop
Speaker 3: performing Nina and he doesn't exist, you know, there's not
Speaker 3: you can't check in with her. So I think it's
Speaker 3: also that you know they're huge relationships. But I mean
Speaker 3: that was what eight years You know that those calfs
Speaker 3: are playing those roles, and so they are. You know,
Speaker 3: there's a different relationships that you've born with those characters
Speaker 3: that you know you then have to walk away from,
Speaker 3: and I mean it's hard of the time. I think,
Speaker 3: you know, you've never want to see them again in
Speaker 3: moments in moments and then and then you're missing Terribley.
Speaker 1: But the writing was good with that. You know. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you made them do wicked things and then you're like,
Speaker 1: oh God, how can Billy come back from this? You
Speaker 1: know what I mean. You had those moments as an audience,
Speaker 1: thinking God actually going to come back from this. But
Speaker 1: then you just love earning more for the for the
Speaker 1: mistake you would think. You know, I have a really
Speaker 1: embarrassing confession point. Oh, I love the theme song to
Speaker 1: Puberty Blues so much that I've got it and I
Speaker 1: drive around with it in my car. It just was
Speaker 1: I don't know, and for me, I loved I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just it calms me. Because it's kind of a
Speaker 1: dramatic score. People be like, oh my god, this guy's mad,
Speaker 1: but it calms me. Wh I'm driving around in my cart.
Speaker 3: I love hearing that.
Speaker 2: That's hilarious. Well, what's funny.
Speaker 3: To me is that I'm currently because I've got a
Speaker 3: Freendi's Nat pay Fie and I'm staying at a hotel.
Speaker 2: And I'm saying I'm staying in Pudgy at the Pudgy
Speaker 2: Bay Hotel.
Speaker 3: Or don't however at school, but.
Speaker 2: It's above it's been turned into some hotels, but it's.
Speaker 3: Above Lena, which was this you know music that was
Speaker 3: is in music, then that in there. You know, I
Speaker 3: don't want to say hello I am, but in the
Speaker 3: day I think I came here and saw Dragon plays,
Speaker 3: so there you go.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm very jealous. Anyway, people will be like I've
Speaker 1: tuned in because they want to hear about Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: You're like, come on, get to safe Home. I just
Speaker 1: have to say it's so compelling as a series, you know,
Speaker 1: and I would say it is the most compelling series
Speaker 1: I have seen made here in Australia. And I turned
Speaker 1: around once I watched the four parts and looked at
Speaker 1: my partner, who isn't mad for television like me, and
Speaker 1: he said, that's the best TV series I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: That is really really lovely to be thank you.
Speaker 1: Safe Home, I would say, he's going to find its audience.
Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you what was the decision
Speaker 1: making process with finding it at SBS.
Speaker 3: Oh, look, it was really fine thing one. It was
Speaker 3: an interesting, it's been a very sort of stuff experience
Speaker 3: of television, this one because I set tindling up really
Speaker 3: at the beginning of last year and we were introduction
Speaker 3: on this in the past last year. Afterwards, the kindling
Speaker 3: up it was. It was one of those sort of
Speaker 3: perfect synchronicities. So Anna Barnes, who wrote it, preout of
Speaker 3: the show so beautifully.
Speaker 2: She had a bible and she had the first.
Speaker 3: Episode and she was sort of pitching it around.
Speaker 2: She was sent to me at the same time as Julie.
Speaker 3: Kuslee at SBS, who's the new positioner there, who was
Speaker 3: previously producer, who.
Speaker 2: Had never met. In fact, she rang me.
Speaker 3: She was rang out of the blue and she said, look,
Speaker 3: you know this project doing around, you should take a
Speaker 3: look at it, you know, I'm just you know, out
Speaker 3: of interest.
Speaker 2: Yea, she just sort of mentioned it anyway.
Speaker 3: It had come to me with you know, I know
Speaker 3: that An was sort of children to very speak about it.
Speaker 3: I read it, and I sort of read it with
Speaker 3: half an eye close because I wasn't necessarily looking to
Speaker 3: make a show about family violence.
Speaker 1: But is it a show? I mean, I'm going to
Speaker 1: get into this world. Well, by the time you'd finished
Speaker 1: working on it, did you think it was about family one?
Speaker 1: Or did you think it was about paraplan?
Speaker 3: But I think that this is the beauty of what
Speaker 3: Anna has constructed, is that if the is about family,
Speaker 3: VINE think it's about.
Speaker 2: So much more.
Speaker 3: And the way that she was able to kind of
Speaker 3: access the material through all sorts of sort of other lenses,
Speaker 3: I suppose. So it wasn't I don't I'm not interested
Speaker 3: in making television that is.
Speaker 2: A chore to watch, you know. I think that I
Speaker 2: want to kind of.
Speaker 3: Consider the audience, want to make me anything, sort of
Speaker 3: consider the audience, And I think that was what was
Speaker 3: so attractive to me about this project.
Speaker 2: But it was about an issue.
Speaker 3: That is so incredibly important, but it cracks the issue
Speaker 3: open for me in a way that a lot of
Speaker 3: the projects that I've previously seen on the subject matter didn't.
Speaker 3: They were sort of felt like, you know, lectures, and
Speaker 3: this felt like a show that was about relationships good
Speaker 3: and bad, and that was bly binary and it's not.
Speaker 3: And I think that was the only thing I liked
Speaker 3: about it was that it was about the kind of
Speaker 3: a slow grind and it's about the as you say,
Speaker 3: it's about power. It's about power dynamics, and it's about
Speaker 3: the loss of power and the loss.
Speaker 2: Of autonomy in relationships.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's sort of lies at the
Speaker 3: bottom of all of these things. But it's something that
Speaker 3: I'm interested in, you know, other dramas that I'm making
Speaker 3: as well. It's sort of it's about that idea of
Speaker 3: lots of instinct and loss of autonomy and sort of
Speaker 3: how that feels.
Speaker 2: And I love that she accessed the material just slightly
Speaker 2: off to the side, so it was, you know, through
Speaker 2: the eyes.
Speaker 3: Of somebody who works in communications that it's very much
Speaker 3: about stories and how we tell stories and the responsibility
Speaker 3: of storytelling and these are all things that al considering,
Speaker 3: you know, in a very different way in setting up
Speaker 3: a new company. It's like, you know, what are the
Speaker 3: stories they want to tell?
Speaker 2: Two are the people I want to work with? How
Speaker 2: do I want to sort of approach this next stage
Speaker 2: of my life? You know, what do I care about?
Speaker 2: What do I value? What's the posion that I'm in now?
Speaker 3: And how can I kind of make you know, how
Speaker 3: can I make a difference in people careers and all
Speaker 3: of those things.
Speaker 2: So I love that this is the show. It was
Speaker 2: about all of these really important issues, but that was
Speaker 2: very much through the lenses of, you know.
Speaker 3: The responsibility storytelling and how we and how the stories
Speaker 3: that we tell aspect our ability to understand situations that
Speaker 3: we're in.
Speaker 1: We all want to level up in our careers. We
Speaker 1: all want to find something new, We want to get
Speaker 1: to that thing. And I feel like you've done this
Speaker 1: with this particular series. And I also really appreciated how
Speaker 1: much we never lost sight of the story with the
Speaker 1: intonated characters. You know, we are following chapter characters, and
Speaker 1: when you watch series like this before, which don't do
Speaker 1: it so well, you're like, ah, it's this character now,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not as interested. Where with this every
Speaker 1: time you're like it slips over and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I need to Yes, I need to needed
Speaker 1: to know more about this. So it's very cleverly put together.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't surprise me that when you talk about
Speaker 1: Anna Bance having a Bible that she was working on,
Speaker 1: that she must have had some really strong understanding of
Speaker 1: how it was all going to come together, because it
Speaker 1: never lets.
Speaker 2: You go, yeah, it really did. I mean, she was
Speaker 2: we were talking about this last night.
Speaker 3: You know what was sort of the difference between the
Speaker 3: end results and what she's sort of imagined.
Speaker 2: And initially pitched and the detailing. There's a lot of detail.
Speaker 3: It's very different to what she originally did, but the
Speaker 3: architecture absolutely was there from the start. You know, the
Speaker 3: ideas were so strong and clear from the start, and
Speaker 3: that's you know, the strength of Anna is as.
Speaker 2: A human being really and as a writer.
Speaker 3: She's so incredibly clear about what she's saying and why
Speaker 3: she's doing it and how she wants how she wants
Speaker 3: to say it.
Speaker 1: Is it harder to make a show with a subject
Speaker 1: matter as important as domestic violence when it comes to
Speaker 1: scriptive drama, because I mean, you know, purity Blues and
Speaker 1: Offspring and all these other ones. You know, they weren't
Speaker 1: tackling something like Likens. So I can imagine when you
Speaker 1: are telling a story like this, you'd have to be
Speaker 1: so careful, you know, the fragility of you understanding what
Speaker 1: the audience is watching. You know, is it triggering? You
Speaker 1: know that all of those things must run through your mind.
Speaker 1: So for you as a producer, like you know, is
Speaker 1: it much harder to make something like this?
Speaker 2: It isn't it easing?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it looks look it is because
Speaker 3: I think is very much aware of the way of responsibility.
Speaker 3: We had, you know, incredible support. You know, we have
Speaker 3: a lot of people to come and talk to us,
Speaker 3: a lot of people you read, I'm one of a
Speaker 3: lot of people, I mean people in me in that sector.
Speaker 3: And it comes from that step that you know, she
Speaker 3: worked as a communication specialist at a couple of sale
Speaker 3: fees in Victoria, so she knows a lot of people
Speaker 3: in the world.
Speaker 2: Had a little of vise on us and a lot
Speaker 2: of advice.
Speaker 3: And there was very encouraging of the kind of the
Speaker 3: dynamics and the banter and the black humor, which which
Speaker 3: was sort of really nice to have that the permission
Speaker 3: to keep those relationships in the community center kind of
Speaker 3: light and dark.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. I think you know.
Speaker 3: I mean we made this Isson's very early on that
Speaker 3: we weren't particularly interested in showing phisical viole. You know
Speaker 3: that this is not necessarily so about kind of big
Speaker 3: acts physical violence, except for popicly one massive one, but
Speaker 3: that we were interested in showing the kind of a
Speaker 3: slow gline of the sorts of relationships, you know, I
Speaker 3: want to say relationships. We were talking about the economic
Speaker 3: aviews or course of control, you know, these other types
Speaker 3: of a family of violence. So we also knew that
Speaker 3: we weren't we weren't tackling that, we didn't want this
Speaker 3: to be a show about seeing women physically brutalized. I
Speaker 3: sort of feel like we've seen a lot about on television.
Speaker 1: Well, we have seen that before, and I think we
Speaker 1: saw that in Big Little Lives, and it was handled
Speaker 1: quite well in that and I understand that. But I
Speaker 1: was very aware of the fact that you were choosing
Speaker 1: not to show us that, which I was almost appreciative of.
Speaker 1: But I think that's also the accessibility of Safe Home,
Speaker 1: is that what you are showing is a lot of
Speaker 1: the foundations as to how people can find themselves in situations. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, because we all think I've got I would
Speaker 1: you know when you're growing up, I'd never go out
Speaker 1: with someone that treated me like this. But you don't
Speaker 1: actually understand the origins of where that comes from. And
Speaker 1: that's what seems to be so carefully tackled and unpacked
Speaker 1: for the audience, and it allows you to think, well,
Speaker 1: you know, people to find them in these situations like
Speaker 1: you and I. It's anybody. We could all just gonna
Speaker 1: happen to anyone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, And I think I mean there's
Speaker 3: a great there's a great piece that and has written up,
Speaker 3: you know in one of the later.
Speaker 2: Episodes, which is there that there's the love of.
Speaker 3: Your life doesn't necessarily country in first and the first day,
Speaker 3: you know, and it's and it's the truth about it's
Speaker 3: sort of it's not like it's sort of dismantling that
Speaker 3: monster is the idea that there's got to use as
Speaker 3: a monsters there are.
Speaker 2: People that love.
Speaker 1: Did you want people to be in their homes watching
Speaker 1: these episodes and having conversations with who they're watching it with.
Speaker 1: You did you think that that was a part of
Speaker 1: the reason as to why you wanted to talk about this.
Speaker 3: Anything that you can do that cracks open, you know,
Speaker 3: an issue like this, I mean, it's such a basic problem.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not it's not something that happens to
Speaker 3: a few people. Is something that happens to a lot
Speaker 3: of people. You know, these are there are a lot
Speaker 3: of relationships. Anything you can do that kind of sheds
Speaker 3: light and sheds new light on the way that you know,
Speaker 3: these kind of relationships operate. I think, you know, it
Speaker 3: feels like the thing to be doing so And again
Speaker 3: that was why I was attacked to and it's telling
Speaker 3: you this because it felt like it's sort of exploded
Speaker 3: all of these these sort of the gentle abuses that build.
Speaker 2: These destroyed lives.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean the statistics are there. I mean, with
Speaker 1: violence against the women in Australia, I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a huge problem. And there is a moment in
Speaker 1: a show where they openly discuss people's hesitancy to discuss
Speaker 1: it in the media. You see your protagonists saying, you know,
Speaker 1: trying so hard to get even any kind of mainstream
Speaker 1: media to talk about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, and I think.
Speaker 2: It's the thing.
Speaker 3: It's sort of stifficult because you kind of say these
Speaker 3: sort of a normally picked kind of you know, the
Speaker 3: family violence or women are week murdered or.
Speaker 2: You know whatever.
Speaker 3: You see statistics all the time, and you see these
Speaker 3: sort of big, usful statements, and that was you know,
Speaker 3: I mean very much what these show is about. It's
Speaker 3: about sort of trying to kind of like tell these
Speaker 3: specific time of nuanced stories behind those statistics, sort of
Speaker 3: open open it up a bit and sort of open
Speaker 3: the conversation up a bit about you know, what it
Speaker 3: actually is and how it's experienced by most people. And obviously,
Speaker 3: you know, it's very you know, the show that we're
Speaker 3: making very focused on you know, it's very gendered because
Speaker 3: you know the film it comes to greater.
Speaker 2: The greatest statistical group.
Speaker 3: Oh you know, we are talking you know, male violence,
Speaker 3: male male probetrator, and FEMA mostly in the show. But yeah,
Speaker 3: we wanted to show how it's experienced and that sort
Speaker 3: of flows.
Speaker 1: Through also for everyone that I'm listening to this, Yes,
Speaker 1: this is about the subjects that we're talking about today,
Speaker 1: but it is also the most beautifully active series and
Speaker 1: at times where these characters are facing some of the
Speaker 1: most terrific circumstances you are, there is still a lot
Speaker 1: of joy as in audience watching these actors bring it
Speaker 1: to life. Like two particular actors. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: that people will remember that. You will know sort of
Speaker 1: Virginia Gay and probably know Janet and yeah, yeah who amazing.
Speaker 1: People probably recognize the because we've seen him on their screens.
Speaker 1: But Antonia Preble, oh beautiful. Yeah, I just I could
Speaker 1: not believe how good that is and it and for
Speaker 1: people listening as we'll watch the whole series because it
Speaker 1: is a tapestry of the performance that you know, really
Speaker 1: comes to fruition. And then you've protaken us as well
Speaker 1: with Asha d The work of those two women is
Speaker 1: just so sensational, like better than any HBO or any
Speaker 1: other series that any other anyone else is making.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to put that on the gym. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're remarkable.
Speaker 3: I've worked for Antonio for.
Speaker 2: Which by the way, and yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: He brings it all together like as in without her,
Speaker 1: like you know, she is the cornerstone of that show,
Speaker 1: and she manages to do that without being a recognizable face,
Speaker 1: you know, for so long, it's like, oh, well, we're
Speaker 1: going to make this show, but we're going to make
Speaker 1: sure we've got a bank of a star. You know,
Speaker 1: what about one of our Australians that's working in America. Now,
Speaker 1: let's bring them home and you know, put them on
Speaker 1: this show where there isn't as many bankable stars in
Speaker 1: this and she certainly isn't a household name at this point,
Speaker 1: but she holds this call show together.
Speaker 3: She needs to be a household man.
Speaker 2: She's amazing. Yeah, she's incredible.
Speaker 3: And I think that that was the thing when we
Speaker 3: were looking we were trying to figure out, you know,
Speaker 3: how to cast this show and how to cast and
Speaker 3: I just knew that we needed we needed someone at
Speaker 3: the center of this who had that kind of like warm,
Speaker 3: who could draw people in, who could kind of hold
Speaker 3: all the complexities of that character, you know, because she's
Speaker 3: a that's a complicated character, but he's a kind of
Speaker 3: guide and step an audience through it. Really with the warp,
Speaker 3: because I mean, obviously the subject mating. You want to
Speaker 3: draw people in. You want to kind of make an
Speaker 3: audience feel like it's not a horrific watch, you know,
Speaker 3: like there is joy and there is warmth and there is.
Speaker 2: You know, it's acceptible.
Speaker 3: They're a relationships within it that ain't going to kind
Speaker 3: of hold you and keep you invested really in the drama.
Speaker 3: So so yeah, so we just need a bad which
Speaker 3: is very hard fun.
Speaker 1: Because you've worked with so many of those recognizable in
Speaker 1: Claudia Harvanasher, Kettycat Stewart, like people that can get a
Speaker 1: show made because you know, people go, oh, I'll watch that.
Speaker 1: You know, was there a conversation made about the fact that,
Speaker 1: you know, you probably didn't have one of those bigger
Speaker 1: names in this particular series, and you think we're turning
Speaker 1: away from the need to have like a bank of
Speaker 1: all star like that in dramas, because I mean, this
Speaker 1: show is probably the best thing I've ever seen and
Speaker 1: it hasn't got those recognizable keep telling you that that's right.
Speaker 1: I just like get over it. Like the cell to
Speaker 1: my partner, like anyone at home that's going to read
Speaker 1: the synopsis of this show and their partner says, well,
Speaker 1: what are we watching tonight? And they go safe home
Speaker 1: and they all, well, who's in it? And people might
Speaker 1: not necessarily not I mean, Virginia Gay, I hope people
Speaker 1: would know, but you know, a lot of the names
Speaker 1: are not household names, and people might go okay, but
Speaker 1: then this show is so phenomenal it doesn't need any
Speaker 1: of those things. That's why I'm asking that we need.
Speaker 2: No which I love this.
Speaker 3: I love to say no sbs. So Julie, I could
Speaker 3: who commission is Crpady with thoughts they were going to
Speaker 3: they were mean, They was fantastic. Can I just say
Speaker 3: they were so supportive and so great to work it on,
Speaker 3: these like really great collaborators as commissioners. They really wanted
Speaker 3: us to kind of go well with the past things.
Speaker 3: So it wasn't about thanks to stars, you know, in
Speaker 3: that sort.
Speaker 2: Of that traditional expense.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's very much about It's more about how
Speaker 3: do we invite an.
Speaker 2: Audience to watch this?
Speaker 3: And obviously sometimes you do sort of need to do
Speaker 3: that by putting in familarly.
Speaker 2: Faces, but I think it was more with us.
Speaker 3: It was more about if we were putting in the
Speaker 3: familarly face, It was about sort of bringing it very much.
Speaker 3: Was that sort of inviting an audience to feel safe
Speaker 3: watching it, you know, and just feel kind of confident
Speaker 3: watching it, rather than it being you know, let's get
Speaker 3: as many idols as you can. I mean obviously you
Speaker 3: would want that. I mean, you know, you want people
Speaker 3: watching you make television because.
Speaker 2: You want people to watch it.
Speaker 1: This, like I said, this show, this would very much.
Speaker 3: Be Yeah, I think this will be a word of
Speaker 3: mouth show. People World of had a long tail she
Speaker 3: pleased about I think.
Speaker 2: So, I mean a she was, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: she she's obviously got you know, she's obviously got a profile,
Speaker 2: you know, Shenew Bold type which was a big show.
Speaker 2: But as you say, I don't think Australia.
Speaker 3: Really understands that she's Australian. I mean I realized for this,
Speaker 3: but I didn't really you know, I didn't grow up
Speaker 3: watching subtle clubs too old, you know, it was it
Speaker 3: was not my thing. So I didn't know the Double Club.
Speaker 3: I didn't really haven't really kind of engaged with the
Speaker 3: Gold Tub. So I didn't really know Asia either. So
Speaker 3: she kind this is kind of like complete surprise to me,
Speaker 3: and this kind of like a joy that she existed
Speaker 3: and that she was Australian and that she could you know,
Speaker 3: we could even kind of consider the prop ability of
Speaker 3: getting her back here to make it.
Speaker 2: And I never really thought that she'd do it because
Speaker 2: I was young.
Speaker 3: To me, I was like, oh, she's you know, she's
Speaker 3: in Australian who built her career in the state, and
Speaker 3: so she's obviously chosen to make a life in a
Speaker 3: career there and not here. So why would she come
Speaker 3: back to you know, the Melbourne in the winter to
Speaker 3: make it full up show about family vows, you know?
Speaker 2: But anyway she did anyway, So yeah, so we're really.
Speaker 3: Lucky what she said, yes, because she does carry you know,
Speaker 3: she character way of the show so beautifully.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the is it
Speaker 1: makes sense that I think that there's this writer strike
Speaker 1: that's going on in the US And I don't know
Speaker 1: how much you want to buy into that, but do
Speaker 1: you think that we need to value our writers a
Speaker 1: little bit more in Australia? Do you think that's a
Speaker 1: conversation that's a global conversation.
Speaker 3: Well, that's really I think that I think that we
Speaker 3: need to kind of consider the impact of the changes
Speaker 3: of the kind of the orastructure of the industry.
Speaker 2: So which really.
Speaker 3: Means, you know, what does it mean the global rights
Speaker 3: to be brought by streaming companies? You know, what does
Speaker 3: that mean for you know, the ongoing income and the
Speaker 3: rights for you know, creating for people who's you know,
Speaker 3: created ip for you know, how is how does this
Speaker 3: all work structurally going forward? So I think that it's
Speaker 3: a very important conversation. And that's that's global I think
Speaker 3: when you are I think.
Speaker 2: That I think that it's difficult to bring too much of.
Speaker 3: The US culture to Australian, sure, just because the economics
Speaker 3: is so different. But I think that when you are
Speaker 3: dealing with global companies that are buying global rights, then
Speaker 3: I think that you know, it does need to be
Speaker 3: you know, we need to figure out what's fair and
Speaker 3: equitable and how to kind of how to pay people properly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean with the writing. I mean, the show's
Speaker 1: really on these good as the writing, and you can
Speaker 1: have a great actor, but even still, you know, you
Speaker 1: need to have them to have you need for them
Speaker 1: to say the right words, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like they need the work at that level. So it
Speaker 1: is about sort of valuing everyone that works on that pie,
Speaker 1: who we're putting on the puzzle together, so to speak.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So it is interesting and it's hard to be able
Speaker 1: to stand up and say Hey, what about the person
Speaker 1: who does this in my department? Do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? It is hard, So yeah, I guess that
Speaker 1: it's important for them to be able to do this.
Speaker 1: I have also had someone ask me to ask you
Speaker 1: this question. I don't know if this is something that
Speaker 1: you ask answer all the time. What is the most
Speaker 1: important life advice that you've ever been given to be
Speaker 1: a good producer and a good human?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 3: I think that's for me the most important thing now.
Speaker 2: I think it's just really clear about what you.
Speaker 3: Care about and you know, sort of the impact that
Speaker 3: you want to have in the world. So I think
Speaker 3: that it's just being Again, there's real things I've been
Speaker 3: thinking about. I think a lot of people have over
Speaker 3: the past four years of so since the pandemics probably
Speaker 3: and for me also in setting up a new company,
Speaker 3: it's been very much about what do I want to
Speaker 3: be putting out into the world, Like how do I
Speaker 3: want to be? You know, it's not you know that
Speaker 3: sounds very earnest and I don't manage because I'm seriously
Speaker 3: I'm not learned a person. But but I but but
Speaker 3: it's you know, like, what what are the stories that
Speaker 3: I want to tell? And what is the responsibility that
Speaker 3: I have, And also what is the responsibility that I
Speaker 3: have to the industry now that I'm older and now
Speaker 3: that I don't have to, you know, I'm not building
Speaker 3: a career. How do I kind of bring other people
Speaker 3: in and how do I sort of impact the next
Speaker 3: generation of of you know, creative in makers and tinkers,
Speaker 3: and sort of how do I facilitate so they're they're
Speaker 3: they're you know, I think it's those questions. I think
Speaker 3: you just have to kind of constantly ask yourself why
Speaker 3: you're doing what you're doing. But I think if you
Speaker 3: constantly sort of self interrogate h then you know, you
Speaker 3: can usually find the pass through things.
Speaker 1: What is something from behind the scenes, something that we
Speaker 1: won't see, we'd say time, something of the behind the
Speaker 1: scenes secret, something maybe funny that happened while you'll make it,
Speaker 1: or maybe it's funny. That's sort of an anecdote of
Speaker 1: behind the scenes.
Speaker 4: The first scene of the show where Asia Phoebe is
Speaker 4: on the balcony kind of considering the beginning of that speech,
Speaker 4: where the others.
Speaker 3: A song playing, the dancing about the balcony, trying to
Speaker 3: think of the third one.
Speaker 2: Of the speech yeah, that was the pick up scene.
Speaker 2: We shot that after we shot the first episode. Wow,
Speaker 2: So we constructed that late, you know, after we've edited
Speaker 2: the thirst.
Speaker 4: So we were like, we needed in the beginning, how
Speaker 4: do we tend this series is more energy and are
Speaker 4: more pumps?
Speaker 2: And that was what we came up with, and Stevie
Speaker 2: went off. Cev threw Martin.
Speaker 3: Actually lady in German who we haven't spoken with early about.
Speaker 3: She directed Little Ball and she's compreeble ah, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: see who and often shot that.
Speaker 1: Well, oh my god, that was a really good one.
Speaker 1: That's probably the best one that I've had in the
Speaker 1: last fifty episodes. So you're like, I can't do this,
Speaker 1: by the way, here have this? Well, I just want
Speaker 1: to say thank you so much for your generosity with
Speaker 1: your time today talking and talking to me about all
Speaker 1: of this. I am such a fan of your work
Speaker 1: and I will be in your audience for a long
Speaker 1: time to come. And I really do hope that Australian
Speaker 1: audiences and global audiences find this story because it's powerful
Speaker 1: and maybe thank you very much
Speaker 2: For saying all of those things, and think of you
Speaker 2: for bored