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Speaker 1: As you probably know, I have a book coming out

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Speaker 1: about raising boys in the next couple of months. Sometime

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Speaker 1: in June. HarperCollins and ABC Books are going to be

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Speaker 1: releasing Boys, building strong young men from the inside out.

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Speaker 1: The conversation around masculinity is continually challenging. It keeps everybody

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Speaker 1: on their toes and people have strong opinions about what

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Speaker 1: it is to be a man and how we should

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Speaker 1: be raising our boys. So this has been a real challenge.

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Speaker 1: Over the next couple of months. On the podcast, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to showcasing and highlighting people in this country

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Speaker 1: who are doing a great job working with boys and

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Speaker 1: young men to help to create the conditions for the

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Speaker 1: boys to do the inner work, to develop character, to

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Speaker 1: become the best versions of themselves that they can, and

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Speaker 1: to understand what it is to be a healthy man.

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Speaker 1: Today on the podcast, Andre Cassen, the headmaster of Brisbane

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Speaker 1: Boys College, talk about his deep seated passion for developing

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Speaker 1: young men who have a strong sense of self and

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Speaker 1: are committed to affecting positive change in the world. If

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Speaker 1: you're raising a young man, Today's episode is one you

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Speaker 1: don't want to miss. Andre Cassen. Next stay with US. Hello,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, where you get real

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Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most downloaded

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Speaker 1: parenting podcast. My name's Doffs. Justin Colson, the author of

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Speaker 1: I've Forgotten how Many Books? Ten eleven twelve books about

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Speaker 1: raising happy Families, the host of Chanlen Lynds hit TV

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Speaker 1: show Parental Guidance, Dad to six of my own children,

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Speaker 1: and today I'm delighted to share the podcast with Andre Cassen.

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Speaker 1: Andrea is the headmaster of the independent day school and

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Speaker 1: boarding school, Brisbane Boys College, locally known as BBC. Andre

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Speaker 1: has worked globally with young men and for more than

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Speaker 1: three decades has held senior positions in education here in

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Speaker 1: Australia and in Asia, where he's developed a leadership phiosophy

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Speaker 1: granted in the belief that education should forge character as

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Speaker 1: much as it shapes intellect. There's an idea that I

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Speaker 1: don't hear enough. Once upon a time, it was a

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Speaker 1: staple of what education was supposed to be a couple

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Speaker 1: of centuries ago. Since twenty twenty two, he's served as

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Speaker 1: the tenth head of Brisbane Boys College to a diverse

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Speaker 1: student body about fourteen hundred young men at the school

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Speaker 1: from prep to year twelve, and it has an excellent,

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Speaker 1: excellent reputation in a GPS environment focused on raising and

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Speaker 1: developing well rounded, social, engaged members of the community. It's

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Speaker 1: a long intro, Andre, but I think that with the

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Speaker 1: work that you've done both here in Australia and across

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Speaker 1: the region, that it needs to be said. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining me and having this conversation about raising boys today.

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Speaker 2: Of course, and thank you so much for the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to have this discussion, which I think is a very

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Speaker 2: important one about how we can create good men that

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Speaker 2: are going to carry our country in our world forward,

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Speaker 2: no matter what the challenges that might lay head. So

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Speaker 2: I'm delighted to have this chance to Andre.

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Speaker 1: A little while ago, as I was putting the fourteenth

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Speaker 1: set of finishing touches on my Boy's book, I rewrote

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Speaker 1: the paragraph around what toxic masculinity is and why I

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Speaker 1: really generally refuse to discuss it or engage with the concept. However,

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Speaker 1: it just keeps on coming up. When you look at

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Speaker 1: these fourteen hundred young men that are working their way

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Speaker 1: through BBC, what do you do? How do you reposition

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Speaker 1: this narrative around toxic masculinity and shift it towards something

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Speaker 1: more positive and healthy. What's your approach on this, Well.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's something that we have an immense

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Speaker 2: responsibility being a prominent boys score here in Brisbane, we

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Speaker 2: have a responsibility to create good men, as we call

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Speaker 2: it here at BBC, gentlemen of honor that are going

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Speaker 2: to embrace all the wonderful things it comes about being

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Speaker 2: a man and being a boy. But to make sure

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Speaker 2: we do that in an appropriate way that we support

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Speaker 2: not only the young men in our care but the

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Speaker 2: broader society. So what we try and do is that

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Speaker 2: we firstly we try and be intentional and what we

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Speaker 2: do we've engaged with a specific curriculum called the Keeping

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Speaker 2: Safe Child Protection Curriculum that works from prep all the

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Speaker 2: way through the year twelve, and it engages our young

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Speaker 2: men in conversations about issues like consent, about their changing

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Speaker 2: bodies and how that they can prepare for relationships beyond school.

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Speaker 2: It's developmentally appropriate, so it might be a conversation about

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Speaker 2: my private parts in prep all the way through to

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Speaker 2: a conversation about what is consent and what does that

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Speaker 2: look like in our rapidly changing world. The second thing

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Speaker 2: we really try and work on is to make sure

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Speaker 2: we've got good people surrounding our boys. We've got amazing

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Speaker 2: staff that are here to be passionate to support and

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Speaker 2: actors role models. Young men need role models that are

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Speaker 2: going to support them in their journey. That old adage,

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Speaker 2: if we can't see, we can't be it, and that's

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Speaker 2: so important the older students. Modeling those behavior with our

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Speaker 2: youngest students absolutely crucial, and of course engaging with our parents.

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Speaker 3: I caught the Holy trinity.

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Speaker 2: When our parents and our schools work together with the

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Speaker 2: young men at the top, we.

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Speaker 3: Achieve so much more.

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Speaker 2: We're a big growing school here at BBC, and it's

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Speaker 2: all about pulling that or in that synchronous position in

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Speaker 2: the same direction.

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Speaker 3: We're going to achieve so much for that young.

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Speaker 1: Man, Andrea, I'd love to frame the next question politely,

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Speaker 1: but when I talk to parents, they never say it politely.

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Speaker 1: They're frustrated, especially the way that and recognizing that the

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Speaker 1: media may be responsible at least in part for the narrative,

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Speaker 1: but they are frustrated with the continual stories that show

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Speaker 1: up in the media about badly behaved boys in private

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Speaker 1: schools specifically, we hear about it usually around year twelve

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Speaker 1: markup day. But you've got stories that have been hanging

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Speaker 1: around for years, like the Saint Kevin's Boys in two

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Speaker 1: rac with the awful chant on the tram, and some

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Speaker 1: of the things have been over the last few years.

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Speaker 1: We just hear these stories again and again and again.

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Speaker 1: How to respond to this challenge. I know that these

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Speaker 1: issues arise in every school, and certainly the media loves

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Speaker 1: the narrative of the elite schools. But surely when schools

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Speaker 1: like yours are implementing such great programs, when they have

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Speaker 1: so many resources, surely the expectation should be higher. And

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Speaker 1: we keep on finding ourselves in these awful holes, these

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Speaker 1: quagmires of abhorrent behavior.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Gilson, You've hit the point there. We have the

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Speaker 2: resources and the responsibility to be better. We talk about

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Speaker 2: that a lot with our boys, about being better. But

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Speaker 2: you can't think for one moment that we're not going

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Speaker 2: to slip up. That is a reality of the human condition.

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Speaker 2: What we need to do is to create an environment

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Speaker 2: where our boys understand what are the right decisions, to

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Speaker 2: have the courage to make those correct, correct choices when

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Speaker 2: they are put in those difficult peer group situations, and then, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: if things do go wrong, what do we do to

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Speaker 2: bring the behavior back to what we want? And look,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here for one moment and

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Speaker 2: say that we're perfect here at BBC. We're certainly not,

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Speaker 2: and we've had our challenges.

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Speaker 3: In the past.

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Speaker 2: But what we will always try and do is be

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Speaker 2: the best at getting better. And that works so much

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Speaker 2: better when you are clear and explicit in what you're

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Speaker 2: trying to achieve as a school. And as I mentioned before,

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Speaker 2: if we bring our parents along in that journey, because

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Speaker 2: the raising of a young man can never just be

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Speaker 2: what happens at home, nor can it just be what

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Speaker 2: happens in the school. If we're working together, we are

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Speaker 2: able to succeed so much more. I'd be curious, I

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Speaker 2: mean mean, is that what you find in your work.

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Speaker 1: The more parents are engaged in their children's lives, the

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Speaker 1: more that those children are likely to internal life the

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Speaker 1: values that we're trying to trying to instill. The major

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Speaker 1: thing that I really try to push is that there's

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Speaker 1: an internalization or an integration or an endorsement. Endorsement would

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Speaker 1: be the word that I've really focused on a lot

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Speaker 1: lately an endorsement of values. So it's one thing for

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Speaker 1: us to stand up at the lectern and preach and

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Speaker 1: pound it and say this is the expectation, this is

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Speaker 1: what you need to be doing. But when we can

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Speaker 1: sit with these young men and engage with them and

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Speaker 1: they can internalize the ideas that they can discuss them

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Speaker 1: and buy into them, I've just found that makes such

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Speaker 1: a difference. And so I work with teachers and with

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Speaker 1: parents on doing that. And I agree with you that

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Speaker 1: three pronged approach where you've got parents and teachers working

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Speaker 1: with not doing too and young men they sort of

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Speaker 1: they come along with the current three legs on a stool.

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Speaker 1: It just seems to make a difference. But creating that

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Speaker 1: endorsement is a real challenge. You are speaking with principles

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Speaker 1: across the education sector, talking with principles at the biggest

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Speaker 1: private schools and the most well resourced schools in the country.

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Speaker 1: But no doubt you also have the opportunity to engage

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Speaker 1: with principles and school leaders in every context. What are

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Speaker 1: they telling you in terms of the challenges that they're

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Speaker 1: faced with when it comes to young men in a

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Speaker 1: school context.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think the challenges are a threefold. There is

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Speaker 2: the pervasive and often very negative aspect of the social

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Speaker 2: media and the messages that have been shared out there.

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Speaker 2: You know, I can jump a line and give you

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Speaker 2: whatever opinion on whatever I like, And unfortunately some of

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Speaker 2: the people that are promoted quite highly on social media

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Speaker 2: are getting the attention. The more controversial you are, the

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Speaker 2: more interesting you get. So that's the big challenge people

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Speaker 2: are talking about. Secondly, the challenge I think is to

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Speaker 2: how we best engage with our parents. Just last week

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Speaker 2: we had a session with fathers and our secondary boys

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Speaker 2: and we started with a session at Sartin. I love

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Speaker 2: what you said about values. The values have to be

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Speaker 2: the bedrock. It cannot be platitudes that you stand up

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Speaker 2: at the pulpit and bash the polpet.

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Speaker 3: It cannot be.

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Speaker 2: The boys very very quickly will work out whether you're

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Speaker 2: not being authentic. I almost said a more creative way

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Speaker 2: of describing that there, but they'll know you're not being authentic.

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Speaker 2: You need to live those values and that needs to

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Speaker 2: be in everything you do. So that started the session.

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Speaker 2: But then the boys went down to our middle school

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Speaker 2: area and the sessions were led by our senior boys.

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Speaker 2: They acted as moderately a year eleven boys.

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Speaker 1: That's powerful, right, because you've got these you've got these

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Speaker 1: young men who are actually being models to the even

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Speaker 1: younger men. Absolutely, and that creates the internalization because they're

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Speaker 1: the one that are doing the teaching. That's to me,

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Speaker 1: that's the what's the words, that's the rainbows and unicorn solution,

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Speaker 1: that's the party pop is going off in my brain

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Speaker 1: right now, because once the boys start doing the teaching,

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Speaker 1: there's just a different level of internalization.

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Speaker 2: And look, we know that boys interact differently, whether they

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Speaker 2: say boys interact side by side.

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Speaker 3: One of the best conversations I have with my son, he.

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Speaker 2: Was a swimmer before he left off to university this year,

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Speaker 2: and on the way to swimming training, when he sat

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Speaker 2: next to me, we would have the most deep conversations.

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Speaker 2: And so after that evening, when dads are driving home

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Speaker 2: with their sons, well, what about Jackson?

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Speaker 3: What about the way he led?

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Speaker 2: And our parents are able to see this is where

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Speaker 2: we're going with the previous education. So that's the other

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Speaker 2: thing that I know, our other principle talking about how

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Speaker 2: do we best engage with our families to get them

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Speaker 2: involved and align with our values that we're trying to spouse.

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Speaker 1: Ther Parent engagement is an ongoing chat challenge in schools

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Speaker 1: around the country. It's something that Principles asked me about

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Speaker 1: more than almost anything at all. Parents, if you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this and wondering what you can do for your children,

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Speaker 1: please be engaged and show up when the school's doing stuff,

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Speaker 1: because it is actually they help you. Andre you are

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Speaker 1: doing better than me. With the swimming conversations. My parents

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Speaker 1: used to wake up at four point thirty to drive

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Speaker 1: me to swimming lessons so that I could be in

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Speaker 1: the pool at five am. And I was in a

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Speaker 1: squad and was a pretty good swim when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. And I can tell you right now that

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Speaker 1: I did not open my mouth and say a word

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Speaker 1: to my parents. We sat in silence and drove to

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Speaker 1: those swimming lessons with nothing but seething resentment under my

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Speaker 1: skin because I was awake at that hour, so I

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Speaker 1: had to go swimming my joy I wasn't choosing to

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Speaker 1: do it. After the break, I want to ask you,

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Speaker 1: how do you define healthy masculinity. I've been thinking about

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Speaker 1: this deeply for the last three years as I've been

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Speaker 1: writing this book about raising boys, and I've come up

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Speaker 1: with a definition that I think is productive and useful

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Speaker 1: and relevant. It's something that boys and their parents can

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Speaker 1: hold on to. But I'd love to know how you

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Speaker 1: define healthy masculinity. I just want to ask you if

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Speaker 1: we wanted our children to engage more in education, particularly

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Speaker 1: our boys, given that the data shows that boys are

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Speaker 1: checking out when it comes to academics vastly, at vastly

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Speaker 1: higher rates than our girls. Really want to get your

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Speaker 1: opinion on how we can help boys to engage with

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Speaker 1: academic content and make more out of their lives educationally.

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Speaker 1: That and more coming up on the podcast We're Back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. My name's doctor Justin Colson.

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Speaker 1: I'm with Andre Cassen, who is the principal of Brisbane

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Speaker 1: Boys College. Andrea. As I struggled to get my head

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Speaker 1: around the idea of writing a book about raising boys,

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Speaker 1: I knew that the first thing that I had to

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Speaker 1: do was come up with a workable definition of healthy

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Speaker 1: masculinity to counter the constant conversation around where we began

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Speaker 1: this discussion today, toxic masculinity. What do you teach when

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Speaker 1: it comes to helping boys to understand what it is

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Speaker 1: to be a healthy man.

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Speaker 2: Look, and that's a great question, and please doctors, and

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Speaker 2: you are far more the expert than me, so I'm

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Speaker 2: just giving you my experience through my journey in education.

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Speaker 2: For us at BBC, in order to raise good men,

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Speaker 2: I've mentioned before and we've shared before, it needs to

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Speaker 2: be based on very very clear values and principles and

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Speaker 2: these are non negotiable. We need to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we are respectful. We call it honor here at BBC.

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Speaker 2: We need to make sure that and boys love their connections,

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Speaker 2: whatever their values is.

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Speaker 3: Community.

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Speaker 2: We have BBC Boys called Brotherhood, but we're trying to

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Speaker 2: be more inclusive of our entire community. We want our

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Speaker 2: boys to aspire, and this is one of the things

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Speaker 2: with young men. They want to try new things and

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Speaker 2: be more than they thought possible, to look above the

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Speaker 2: parapet and see what might be possible. We want to

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Speaker 2: celebrate achievement. I think the idea of everyone gets surprised

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Speaker 2: and it's okay to say, actually, you're really good at that.

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Speaker 2: But what we say at BBC that there's more than

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Speaker 2: one way to thrive. So you might be academic, let's

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Speaker 2: celebrate that. You might be brilliant playing the bagpipes and

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Speaker 2: playing at the military tattoo, then let's celebrate that. And

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Speaker 2: so that to me, which is really important. And the

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Speaker 2: last aspect is and I spoke about before, not knowledge.

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Speaker 3: It's wisdom.

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Speaker 2: It's how do we use what we know to be

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Speaker 2: able to apply that to success. So if we work

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Speaker 2: on those values, then we create young men that are

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Speaker 2: happy to embrace who they are and have the courage

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Speaker 2: to call out behaviors that are counter to what they believe.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's so important.

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Speaker 2: We're very happy to tell you whether I'm a tragic

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Speaker 2: westc Egal supporter, and I'll still argue Black and Blue

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Speaker 2: why that's a great football team. But then the more

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Speaker 2: important conversations, do I have the courage to have those

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Speaker 2: difficult conversation? And that's what we want to create in

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Speaker 2: BBC Boys. And the last piece is we want to

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Speaker 2: create men that are looking to make a difference for good,

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Speaker 2: to find those opportunities where they can insert themselves and

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Speaker 2: make the world a better place. And our college has

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Speaker 2: been around for one hundred and twenty four years.

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Speaker 3: We've built.

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Speaker 2: Anything that I've done is because I've stood on the

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Speaker 2: shoulders of giants. This has been happening for a long

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Speaker 2: time at BBC and I'm immensely proud of that heritage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Really inspired by a couple of those things. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: the concept of community and brotherhood is something that is

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Speaker 1: I think lacking for too many of our young men,

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Speaker 1: and hence the wellbeing challenges. But the one that I

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Speaker 1: really want to zero win on actually as two that

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Speaker 1: I want to zero in on here. The first is

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Speaker 1: this idea of aspiration and achievement. I was having a

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Speaker 1: conversation in regional New South Wales. It's some year nine

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Speaker 1: and ten students just around about a month ago, really

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Speaker 1: really challenged community, really difficult area to be growing up.

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Speaker 1: The kids have disengaged, they've checked out. The teachers have

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Speaker 1: as well in the particular school that I was in,

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Speaker 1: and it was a really really tough spot to be.

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Speaker 1: As we talked, I asked them how they feel when

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Speaker 1: they spend the day playing Fortnite or Roadblocks or Minecraft,

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Speaker 1: or when they've scrolled TikTok for two hours, and they

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Speaker 1: all said lousy. I don't feel very good. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: why is that? And as we bounce the ideas around

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Speaker 1: a little bit. What the students eventually got to was,

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Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything that is really worthy of my

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Speaker 1: time and my life, and therefore, if I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to do something that's worthy of my time in my life,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to feel like I'm worthy because i

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Speaker 1: haven't done something like. The discipline that's required to get

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Speaker 1: hard things done is the everything that creates the self

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Speaker 1: respect that we need so that we can feel like

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Speaker 1: we've achieved. And as we discussed that, there was just

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Speaker 1: this I watched them sit up taller and straighter as

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Speaker 1: they realized, Oh, you're doing hard things. Aspiring to do

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Speaker 1: something that is uncomfortable is going to make me feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm doing something that's worthy and worthwhile, and then

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Speaker 1: I will feel worthy and respectable. It was just a

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Speaker 1: really lovely moment to see these students who don't really

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Speaker 1: want to typically do those things, go no, this is worthwhile.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that you've highlighted is this idea of

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Speaker 1: helping them to make a difference for good that aligns

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Speaker 1: really closely with the definition of masculinity that I've put

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Speaker 1: into my book Boys. I've defined a healthy man as

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Speaker 1: one who helps those around him feel safer and stronger,

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Speaker 1: not just feel, but be safer and stronger. This ability.

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Speaker 1: I had a conversation with a woman, probably about forty

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Speaker 1: two years old. She'd been divorced for five or six years.

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Speaker 1: We were colleagues, We knew each other reasonably well. This

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Speaker 1: was just a couple of years ago, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: inappropriate for me to ask a personal question. So I

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Speaker 1: said to her, are you dating again? Are you looking around?

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Speaker 1: Do you plan on finding somebody else's missed ride out

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Speaker 1: there for you? And she said no, I have no

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Speaker 1: interest in trying to find a guy. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that there is any man out there who is going

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Speaker 1: to show up in my orbit, who is going to

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Speaker 1: be a bonus in my life. This idea of being

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Speaker 1: a bonus has really struck with me. She basically said,

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Speaker 1: if I were to repartner and remarry whoever I end

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Speaker 1: up with, I'm going to be giving more to this

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Speaker 1: relationship than they are. Not that it's transactional, but I'll

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Speaker 1: be the one who is doing everything. That's just what

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Speaker 1: my experience with men has been. They're takers, they're not givers.

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Speaker 1: They're not a bonus. There's no surplus value here, which

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Speaker 1: is a riff on Richard Reeves in his Book of

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Speaker 1: Boys and Men, and I'd just thought, what a difference

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Speaker 1: it would be, what a difference it would make in

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Speaker 1: the world if we could raise our young men with

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Speaker 1: just this. It's so easy, it's so easy to remember.

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Speaker 1: Can you help the people around you to feel and

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Speaker 1: be safer and stronger? And that feels like that aligns

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Speaker 1: really neatly with the values that you're describing. Safe and strong,

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Speaker 1: difference for good, having the wisdom to know how to

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Speaker 1: act in different situations, achieving, aspiring, honor, powerful values that

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Speaker 1: grow great men.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you. And what I love is that.

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Speaker 2: These values were derived from our community.

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Speaker 3: They weren't top down.

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Speaker 2: We work with our students, we work with our parents,

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Speaker 2: we work with our old boys, work their stuff, obviously,

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Speaker 2: and what does it mean to be a good man

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Speaker 2: in a BBC context? I love your definition to feel safer?

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Speaker 2: I just I think that's Rellian. I'll give you the

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Speaker 2: the I'll quote give the quote to you, but I'm

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Speaker 2: going to use that absolutely brilliant.

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Speaker 3: I do hope that our young men, when they are.

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Speaker 2: Out in society, are make people feel safer, are making

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Speaker 2: people feel better and Hopefully your friends will find someone

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Speaker 2: like that, because it's sad to hear that they feel

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Speaker 2: that they're not going to get something from their relationship

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Speaker 2: that is disappointing.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully the BBC boy that won't be the case. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, It's astonishing how many women have told and girls

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Speaker 1: have told me that as they've found out that I'm

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Speaker 1: writing a book about boys. It's not a one off. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: it seems to be an increasing attitude towards young men

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Speaker 1: and adult men in our community. Our time is a

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Speaker 1: little bit done. I've really enjoyed the chat. Andre. I

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Speaker 1: feel like you and I could probably sit and talk

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Speaker 1: for several hours about what it is to raise great boys.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you one last question. Your a dad, yourself,

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Speaker 1: you've got two two teenagers. Yes, if there was one

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Speaker 1: piece of advice that you would leave parents who are

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Speaker 1: raising adolescent boys right now or tween boys right now,

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Speaker 1: and they just want to raise great kids, the kids

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Speaker 1: that are only going to show up in the paper

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Speaker 1: for excellence, for achievement, for outstanding conduct and doing something wonderful,

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Speaker 1: what would you say to them if they were really

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Speaker 1: really focused on helping those young men to be the

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Speaker 1: best versions of themselves that they could be.

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Speaker 3: I think, and I spent a lot of time ruminating

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Speaker 3: on this.

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Speaker 2: It is maintaining that opportunity for conversations with your sons.

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Speaker 3: You need to live and truly live.

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Speaker 2: In everything you do the values that you think are important.

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Speaker 2: But your son, no matter what they are struggling with.

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Speaker 2: It might be a maths problem, it might be non

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Speaker 2: selection in a rugby team, it might be a relationship

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Speaker 2: with a girl, or it might be something deeper about sexuality.

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Speaker 3: And choices that they're making.

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Speaker 2: You need to create that environment where no matter what

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Speaker 2: their issue is, they can engage with you and feel comfortable.

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Speaker 2: And more often than not, it's on this way of swimming,

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Speaker 2: training or watching the West Coast Eagles get beaten again

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Speaker 2: that those conversations will happen. And I just think that

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Speaker 2: is the greatest gift that we can give as parents

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Speaker 2: to our boys.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the power of connection. That's phenomenal anddre It's been

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Speaker 1: a treat to talk to you. Thanks for sharing your

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Speaker 1: ideas about masculinity about raising great boys. Goodluck this year

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Speaker 1: with the Eagles. I don't like your chances, but no

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Speaker 1: wish you well anyway. And what a treat to have

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Speaker 1: you on the podcast today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Doc calls has been an absolute pleasure. I

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Speaker 2: wish you well and good luck with your book.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

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Speaker 1: Bridge MEDIAMM Hammonds provides our additional support. For more info

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Speaker 1: about things we've talked about, check the show notes and

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Speaker 1: everything that Andre has said about those values will be

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Speaker 1: there for you and if you'd like to join the

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Speaker 1: wait list for the Boy's Book, which will be added

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Speaker 1: in just a couple of months now, visit Happy Families

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au m HMM