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Speaker 1: Most of us worry about what others think of us

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Speaker 1: at some point, but have you ever considered how that

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Speaker 1: might negatively impact your ability to achieve your goals. This

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Speaker 1: is something that Shelley Johnson and I explore in a

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Speaker 1: slightly different kind of episode for How I Work.

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Speaker 2: Shelley is the founder.

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Speaker 1: Of Bold Side and the host of This is of Work,

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Speaker 1: and instead of an interview, Shelley and I decided to

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Speaker 1: sit down for a chat about how we both often

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Speaker 1: worry about what others think of us and how they

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Speaker 1: can seriously hold back professional and personal growth. In this episode,

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Speaker 1: we discuss how you can overcome the limiting fear of

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Speaker 1: what other people think of you and what you should

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Speaker 1: be doing instead of over sharing at work if you

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Speaker 1: want to have a positive impact. We'll also discuss why

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Speaker 1: bringing your whole self to work might not be the

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Speaker 1: best idea, and we offer an alternative strategy that you

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Speaker 1: might want to try instead. Welcome to How I Work,

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Speaker 1: a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your day.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. With a podcast, regular columns,

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Speaker 1: and a very active social media presence. Shelley has definitely opened.

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Speaker 2: Herself up to the opinions of other people.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to know, if she's putting herself out

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Speaker 1: there so much, how does that play out with the

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Speaker 1: worry that I know she has about what other people

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Speaker 1: might think of her, And how then does that impact

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Speaker 1: the decisions that she makes.

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Speaker 3: It plays out in so many ways. I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: where do I begin? Like how much therapy are we

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Speaker 3: prepared to do? But I think it's interesting because when

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Speaker 3: I talk to people about this fear, like people who

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Speaker 3: are kind of in my close circle of friends of

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Speaker 3: really being afraid of what people think of me, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: like surprised, They're like, oh really, Like you put so

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Speaker 3: much stuff out there. You're always putting videos out, You're

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Speaker 3: always doing this, that and the other. Like I would

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Speaker 3: never have imagined that you're afraid of what people think.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, no, I'm terrified. Like I'm terrified

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Speaker 3: of what people think. At some point, though, there's this

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Speaker 3: like choice that I think you have to make where

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Speaker 3: you have to weight these things and hold them up

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Speaker 3: and go, Okay, how much weight am I putting on

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Speaker 3: the voices and perspectives of random strangers on the Internet

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Speaker 3: or people that I do really care about their opinion,

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Speaker 3: maybe like clients, maybe people that you work with. How

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Speaker 3: much weight am I giving those versus what do I

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Speaker 3: want to achieve? What do I want to kind of

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Speaker 3: put out there? And for me, I have really lent

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Speaker 3: into the idea of resistance. And I know you've probably

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Speaker 3: read the Stephen Pressfield book The War of Art, and

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Speaker 3: he talks about how in any kind of creative endeavor,

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Speaker 3: you have to lean into that resistance that you feel.

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Speaker 3: And for me, the biggest area of resistance I've found

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Speaker 3: in my career has been that idea of just caring

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Speaker 3: too much about what people think and allowing that to

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Speaker 3: shape how I show up. So things that I used

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Speaker 3: to do Amanda, which I just cringe at now, Like

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Speaker 3: looking back, I had like two distinct wardrobes, like very distinct.

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Speaker 3: I had like corporate Shelley, which was like only Q clothing,

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Speaker 3: that's all I wore, but it was very like corporate.

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Speaker 3: And then I was like in this weird family folk band,

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Speaker 3: like weird, yeah, so weird. And so these two distinct

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Speaker 3: sides where I'd only wear vintage clothes, and so it

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Speaker 3: was almost like I had these two split personalities where

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Speaker 3: I had corporate me and then who I actually was,

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Speaker 3: which is probably pretty creative, pretty quirky, bit weird, and

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Speaker 3: those two things were just did not align, this constant dissonance.

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Speaker 3: And so over time, what I've realized is like, you

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Speaker 3: know what people are going to think, whatever they think,

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Speaker 3: What is important to me is that I show up

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Speaker 3: with integrity and who I am and there's congruency. And

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Speaker 3: so one practical thing I did was ditch the work wardrobe.

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Speaker 3: I can't have these two personalities. It's just weird, just

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Speaker 3: feels like this cognitive dissonance. And so I've just gone, no,

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Speaker 3: I am who I am and work and out of work,

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to make a conscious, like physical choice

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Speaker 3: and sign that this is this is me and I'm

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Speaker 3: okay with you not liking me. I mean, I say

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Speaker 3: that with an asterix. I'm still working on that all

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Speaker 3: the time, but that is a choice that I'm making.

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Speaker 3: How do you handle it? Because you do the same thing,

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Speaker 3: like you're always putting yourself out there, You've written multiple books,

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Speaker 3: you are a thought leader in the space of work.

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Speaker 3: How do you handle that fear of people's opinion.

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Speaker 1: It's funny, I could so relate to what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: just about the clothing. I in my twenties had this

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Speaker 1: thing happened to me where I was starting to do

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Speaker 1: a lot of speaking and I had entered a competition

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Speaker 1: that was through the National Speakers Association, and I got

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Speaker 1: to the national finals, which sounds impressive.

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Speaker 2: There weren't many competitors.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't impressive at all, but it meant that I

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Speaker 1: had to do a ten minute presentation in front of

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Speaker 1: four hundred of my speaking peers. And I had made

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Speaker 1: the choice when I started in ventim that I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: dress corporate, and for this competition, I just I wore

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Speaker 1: what was me like, which is a little bit quirky.

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Speaker 1: I think I probably wore sneakers because I generally just

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Speaker 1: lived in sneakers. And I delivered my presentation and the

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Speaker 1: setup was a little bit like how I remember the

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Speaker 1: format of Australian Idol being or any of those talent

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Speaker 1: competitions where you've got the panel of three judges and

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Speaker 1: they critique you, but in front of the entire room,

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Speaker 1: and they commented on what I was wearing, and they said,

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Speaker 1: if you keep dressing like that, you'll never work with

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Speaker 1: the corporates, and firstly, like I was just mortified, particularly

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Speaker 1: as a woman, being criticized for how you look so publicly,

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Speaker 1: just felt very shameful. But also I thought, did you

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Speaker 1: not listen to my introduction? All my clients are corporates.

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Speaker 1: I already work with the corporates. I don't have any

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Speaker 1: non corporate clients. But also just completely mortified as well

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Speaker 1: in front of my peers. And I went back to

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Speaker 1: my hotel room where I was staying, and I stripped

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Speaker 1: off the clothes, got into bed, and I'd left the

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Speaker 1: clothes on this. It was like an induction stovetop that

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Speaker 1: looks like it's just sort of part of the bench,

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Speaker 1: but it was an electric stovetop. And I left my

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Speaker 1: clothes there because I thought that's good storage, because it

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Speaker 1: was small hotel room. And I woke up. I was

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Speaker 1: there with my ex husband, but I woke up to

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Speaker 1: him like screaming at midnight, Oh my god, there's a fire.

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Speaker 1: There's a fire. My clothes had literally caught on fire.

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Speaker 1: No way, yeah, well the stovetop wasn't turned off properly.

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Speaker 1: My clothes were in this like these flames, and it

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Speaker 1: just felt so oh my gosh, symbolic in some way

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Speaker 1: to just go oh my gosh. And so I still

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Speaker 1: like I didn't change how I dress. I will still

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Speaker 1: if I'm giving a keynote, I'll probably be in jeans

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Speaker 1: and sneakers or a T shirt or something like that.

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Speaker 1: But it's still a constant battle in terms of going, oh, like,

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Speaker 1: I think I want to put this out there, but

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Speaker 1: I'm scared of what will come back at me. So

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Speaker 1: on the clothes front, I totally relate, and also I

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Speaker 1: relate to just going I just have to embrace me.

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Speaker 2: I just have to be me, otherwise I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to be my best.

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Speaker 3: That is wild, that story that I'm just like thinking about,

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Speaker 3: the like, yeah, the symbolism of your clothes actually burning,

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Speaker 3: and then still also just having to be pub shamed.

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Speaker 3: I would say, like about what you're wearing, which is

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Speaker 3: so not related.

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Speaker 2: To your skill.

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Speaker 3: I find when you get feedback, and anytime in your career,

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Speaker 3: whether you're a business owner, whether you an employee, you're

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Speaker 3: kind of constantly getting some form of feedback. It might

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Speaker 3: not be overt like that where a panel of people

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Speaker 3: are just like publicly giving you that feedback in front

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Speaker 3: of four hundred people, but we get these subtle feedback cues,

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Speaker 3: and I think every time you get feedback you have

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Speaker 3: a choice with it, like is this someone a that

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Speaker 3: I value their opinion? Is this be useful to me?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: How is this useful? And see what do I then

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Speaker 3: do with it? And there are times where you get

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Speaker 3: some level of criticism and you have that kind of

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Speaker 3: like really important decision point where you go, Okay, do

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Speaker 3: I take this on or do I just reject this

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Speaker 3: by going I hear what they say. That might be

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Speaker 3: true for other people, but for me, I'm going in

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Speaker 3: this kind of path, in this direction. And when you

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Speaker 3: already have a predisposition to deeply care what people think,

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Speaker 3: it's very easy to just go, oh, okay, well I

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Speaker 3: now need to ditch all the sneakers and where the stilettos,

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Speaker 3: even though I'll be miserable and in pain and tripping

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Speaker 3: over how do you work out who you listen to

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Speaker 3: versus who you go you know what?

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Speaker 2: Not?

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Speaker 1: For me, it's probably been trial and error. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've gathered to like again in my twenties

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Speaker 1: and probably for a lot of my thirties actually, and

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Speaker 1: I'm forty seven now. But one change I definitely would

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Speaker 1: have made or advice that I would have given to

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Speaker 1: my younger self is get mentors.

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Speaker 2: A lot earlier.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've been really good at collecting some

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Speaker 1: really great people over say the last ten years, but

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Speaker 1: then the ten years prior to that, I completely the

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Speaker 1: underestimated just the importance of finding people. And it is

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Speaker 1: trial and error because there's certainly been many people that

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Speaker 1: I've gone to for advice over the years, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of them I just haven't clicked with, you know,

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Speaker 1: or perhaps I felt like I just I need someone

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Speaker 1: with this kind of experience, this sort of lived experience,

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Speaker 1: rather than this kind of experience. So I've put a

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Speaker 1: lot of energy into building mentors and advisors who are

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Speaker 1: just people I know that I can call up when

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Speaker 1: I'm going through something tough, and also putting work into

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Speaker 1: finding a good community of peer mentors as well. So

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Speaker 1: you know, for example, something I started I Reckon. It

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Speaker 1: must have been eight or nine years ago. I put

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Speaker 1: together a group of about eight or nine women that

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Speaker 1: were all founder CEOs like I was at the time,

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Speaker 1: you know, from like some amazing businesses like Adore Beauty

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Speaker 1: and Envado and Table of Plenty and keep cup and

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Speaker 1: you know, like these amazing women founders and leaders. And

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Speaker 1: for many years we would meet up once a month

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Speaker 1: for three hours, and we would have a really clear

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Speaker 1: format where we'd do a quick check in, like best

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Speaker 1: and worst of the last month, and then we would

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Speaker 1: generally me I'd facilitate a discussion where we'd each bring

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Speaker 1: a challenge that we wanted other people's points of view on.

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Speaker 1: And I used to love these sessions. I'm still connected

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Speaker 1: with all these women, you know. It more happens asynchronously

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Speaker 1: now and we get together, you know, for a couple

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Speaker 1: of you know, dinners during the year and more one

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Speaker 1: on one catch ups. But it really changed how I

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Speaker 1: think about a lot of challenges and it made me

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Speaker 1: feel so much less alone. I'd love to know for you, though, Shelley,

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Speaker 1: what has been your approach to collecting people you know

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Speaker 1: whose feedback you do trust and whether that be mentors

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Speaker 1: or advisors or something else entirely.

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Speaker 3: I've got a couple of mentors who how I catch

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Speaker 3: up with regularly, and there's a's probably a level of

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Speaker 3: consistency with it, and that's been really important for me,

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Speaker 3: Like finding people who are like, Okay, they're going to

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Speaker 3: help you on your next kind of growth journey, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Growth looks like.

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Speaker 3: For me, A lot of my growth I focus on,

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Speaker 3: like what is the personal growth I need to take?

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Speaker 3: And so I have people who are in my corner

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Speaker 3: that I think I can call anytime there's a challenge

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Speaker 3: and just sound it out. Those mentors don't really give

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Speaker 3: me advice. They more just ask good questions, and I

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Speaker 3: think I like that approach. It's like the coach. They're

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Speaker 3: very rarely like advice giving their like see that I

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Speaker 3: probably hold the answer somewhere. They just helped me dig

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Speaker 3: out Okay, here's the right path to take, which has

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Speaker 3: been really helpful. The thing that I love about them

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Speaker 3: is like they're super honest, Like they're just real and

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Speaker 3: they're honest, and I know that they deeply care about

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Speaker 3: my success. So that has been really helpful. And then

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Speaker 3: the other side has been this mentoring moments thing amounts

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Speaker 3: where like this conversation for me will be one of

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Speaker 3: those where I'm talking to you about something and I

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Speaker 3: leave and I'm like I'll write some things down of

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Speaker 3: like this was I take away or this is and

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Speaker 3: I know, like both of us have done pods with

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Speaker 3: Don Price and for me, anytime I have a conversation

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Speaker 3: with Dom, I see that as a mentoring moment. It's

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Speaker 3: like an hour conversation jam packed with whole stack of things.

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Speaker 3: When I go away and I'm like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot in that. But I would take that

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Speaker 3: as a mentoring moment where I'm like, I'm so privileged

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Speaker 3: to get to have a chance to speak to these

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Speaker 3: people on the podcast or just in passing so on

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Speaker 3: a previous pod, like Dom said this thing just recently

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Speaker 3: about worthiness and he was like, sometimes we don't think

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Speaker 3: we're worthy and we play small, and I think, like

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Speaker 3: the fear of what people think for me, if I

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Speaker 3: get into that really like dark head space with it

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Speaker 3: where I really care, I do play small. I don't

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Speaker 3: think I'm good enough, I don't feel worthy. I've gone

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Speaker 3: away reflected on it and go and start to just

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Speaker 3: reflect on my own behavior. If I'm like hyper editing

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Speaker 3: a post that I'm going to write on LinkedIn, or

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Speaker 3: like like a content piece that I'm doing for something

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Speaker 3: in my business, or obsessing about oh if I put

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Speaker 3: this out there, like I'll get criticized, So I'm actually

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Speaker 3: just going to tone it right down to make it

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Speaker 3: heaps more safe. I think those mentoring moments have been

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Speaker 3: really helpful for that, so that we don't get stuck

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Speaker 3: in this rigidity of like and I hear people always

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Speaker 3: ask amounts are like, how do you find a mentor?

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Speaker 3: And like, you have mentors, you just probably haven't acknowledged them,

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Speaker 3: Like they're there, they're there, You're just maybe not seeing it.

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Speaker 2: It's so true.

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Speaker 1: Something I think about when I think about, you know,

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Speaker 1: fear of what people think and just fear in general,

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Speaker 1: is that I feel like this year, well, the last

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Speaker 1: twelve months have been probably the roughest twelve months that

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Speaker 1: I've had at work, for a whole variety of reasons,

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Speaker 1: you know, particularly because I was leading the business for

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Speaker 1: you know, a sort of introm six month period and

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Speaker 1: I think I made some good decisions then, but I

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Speaker 1: think I made some really poor decisions and it was

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Speaker 1: it was a hard time for the team. There was

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Speaker 1: so much change, and I think some of the decisions

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Speaker 1: that I made brought on more change that was necessary.

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Speaker 1: And I've done so much thinking about why did I

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Speaker 1: do that, Why did I make that decision? Why did

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Speaker 1: I make that decision? And I think what was at

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Speaker 1: the bottom, or at the heart of a lot of

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Speaker 1: the poorer decisions that I made was fear and not

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Speaker 1: having the courage to make some really hard decisions, some

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Speaker 1: of which you know, not relevant anymore, some of which

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Speaker 1: I did end up making, but it took me too

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Speaker 1: long to make those decisions. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I could do the year again, there's quite a

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Speaker 1: lot that I would have done differently if I could

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Speaker 1: take away that fear.

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Speaker 2: And it's obviously easy with.

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Speaker 1: Hindsight, knowing what I know now, But at the heart

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Speaker 1: of it, I think fear was at the heart of it.

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Speaker 1: Fear that can I do this, fear of what other

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Speaker 1: people would think. But definitely fear was a big theme

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: What do you think caused that fear.

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Speaker 1: I think some of it was just not backing myself,

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Speaker 1: and I think there was fear of what other people

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Speaker 1: would think. And I don't quite know who those other

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Speaker 1: people were, but just this sense that it's like, oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: how's that going to look? You know, I think for

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Speaker 1: me as a business owner, like Inventium has been at

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Speaker 1: various sizes from a headcount point of view. You know,

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Speaker 1: at its largest we were twenty people, and that was

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Speaker 1: a few years ago, and for me, I look back

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Speaker 1: at those times and they were some of my like unhappiest,

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Speaker 1: most miserable times. And you know, I think part of

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Speaker 1: me is just I'm just not cut out to lead

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Speaker 1: a business or a team of that many people. I

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Speaker 1: know that this year, I've been really craving just a smaller,

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Speaker 1: more simple, less complex kind of version of what I do.

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Speaker 1: What I found is that, you know, if you look

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Speaker 1: at social media or just media in jeer and you

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Speaker 1: look in the world of business, everything's about growth. There's

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Speaker 1: no playbook for how do you shrink a company? So

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Speaker 1: you know, that's certainly been really front of mind for me.

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Speaker 1: But I'm curious, you know, how do you think about these,

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Speaker 1: you know, things that as a business owner might be

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Speaker 1: really unpopular ways or unpopular opinions or unpopular desires. How

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Speaker 1: do you reconcile like what you want versus what you

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Speaker 1: maybe should want, what the world thinks you should want

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Speaker 1: as a leader of a business.

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Speaker 3: I'm smiling so much if people could see my face,

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Speaker 3: because I just so relate to what you're describing as

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Speaker 3: like it's like gross gross growth, like bigger revenue, bigger

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Speaker 3: dollars bigger, like everything needs to be bigger. And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 3: sometimes bigger is just fundamentally not better, Like I think

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Speaker 3: about there's heaps of examples of that. And one of

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Speaker 3: my beautiful clients who has a very large business and

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Speaker 3: it grew super super fast. He went on this big

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Speaker 3: journey like within five years, I think they'd grown to

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Speaker 3: five hundred staff in five years. It was is like

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Speaker 3: just you know, a hrd Nightmare in its truest form.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he talked to me about this idea of

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Speaker 3: like he and when he first started felt like bigger

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Speaker 3: was better, and then he flipped it and he's like, actually,

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Speaker 3: better is often not bigger, Like bigger is more complex,

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Speaker 3: more stress, there's more burnout, there's more of every type

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Speaker 3: of challenge. But you're right, like, there is no playbook

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Speaker 3: for how do you grow personally while staying simple and

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Speaker 3: small if that's what you want, Like, and I think

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Speaker 3: there's so much artificial pressure and it might be artificial,

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Speaker 3: it might be real. Like for me, I feel like

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Speaker 3: it is artificial because it's coming from an external force

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Speaker 3: where it's like revenue needs to be doubling every year

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Speaker 3: and just all these like things and I'm like, does

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Speaker 3: it though?

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Speaker 2: What if I like how.

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Speaker 3: My lifestyle looks with this size of staff or this

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Speaker 3: size team or the kind of other thing if you

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Speaker 3: played out in a work sense, if you're an employee,

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Speaker 3: it's like the pressure to climb the career ladder and like, oh,

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Speaker 3: if I'm a technical specialist, I now need to be

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Speaker 3: a manager of like the technical specialist, and then I

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Speaker 3: need to be a director, and then I need to

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Speaker 3: be an exec. And then they get to the execroll

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Speaker 3: and they're like, actually, I loved being an engineer on

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Speaker 3: the tools. Why am I doing this?

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Speaker 1: We'll be back with Shelley soon, and when we return,

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Speaker 1: we'll be discussing why oversharing at work can be a

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Speaker 1: really bad idea and some simple ways that you can

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Speaker 1: unpack and manage stress. We'll also be discussing why you

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Speaker 1: really shouldn't bring your whole self to work. If you're

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Speaker 1: looking for more tips to improve the way you work

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Speaker 1: can live. I write a short weekly newsletter that contains

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Speaker 1: tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. You can

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Speaker 1: sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha

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Speaker 1: dot com. I do think about that a lot. This

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, who are these people that say, well,

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Speaker 1: you need to just move up and you need to

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Speaker 1: manage people because that's progression and if you don't become

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Speaker 1: a manager, then you're not progressing in your career. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that is such a flawed assumption because

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Speaker 1: being a manager now compared to five years ago before

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Speaker 1: the pandemic, is so different. I think, you know, in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, being a manager was largely about performance and

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Speaker 1: managing performance and people being accountable to their goals.

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Speaker 2: But now that.

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Speaker 1: We're encouraged to bring our whole selves to work and

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Speaker 1: be quote unquote vulnerable, managers are now acting as therapists

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Speaker 1: I think for fifty percent of their time, and ninety

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Speaker 1: nine percent of them are not qualified to be therapists,

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Speaker 1: which makes it incredibly emotionally taxing.

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Speaker 3: I've got to thought here, and that's separate. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to say the first one, and I'm just going to

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Speaker 3: put a little like caveat because this could be like,

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Speaker 3: this could be one of the things where I'm going

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Speaker 3: will people like this? Will people get offended? They might.

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to step into it and not be

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Speaker 3: afraid of what people think. For a sec I mean

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Speaker 3: trying with this idea of like bringing your whole self

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Speaker 3: to work, and I say this with care, like bringing

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Speaker 3: your whole self to work is different to bringing your

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Speaker 3: best self to work, And I just want to sit

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Speaker 3: with that for a second. Go okay. And I feel

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Speaker 3: even nervous saying this out loud because I feel like

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Speaker 3: it's countercultural because we've talked this so long about bringing

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Speaker 3: your whole self to work, like everything the good, but

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Speaker 3: the bad, the ugly, And I think there's like elements

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Speaker 3: of that that are good, but I think there's elements

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Speaker 3: of that that are unhelpful, like and I kind of

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Speaker 3: feel like what I would love to see is like

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Speaker 3: bring your best self to work. Like that doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: you kind of bad days, that doesn't mean you can't

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Speaker 3: be real and authentic and say, you know what, today

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Speaker 3: I'm just really struggling. But what sometimes I feel when

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Speaker 3: people talk about like being super super like authentic, is

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Speaker 3: it's almost a license to be a jerk. I often

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Speaker 3: hear from teams and leaders that I work with, Hey,

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Speaker 3: like people walk in and they're really really not in

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Speaker 3: a good headspace and it just affects the whole team.

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Speaker 3: And that's the emotional contagion. We know that, Like, the

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Speaker 3: emotional contagion is a real thing. Like you walk in

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Speaker 3: and you're really negative, Well, that's going to affect the

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Speaker 3: whole team, just like when you walk in and you

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Speaker 3: bring a positive kind of energy or a level of optimism.

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Speaker 3: Not talking about toxic positivity. Please hear me, that's not

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Speaker 3: what I'm saying. But I'm just toying with this, and like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I have like the direct answer,

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Speaker 3: but it's just been something I've been wrestling with. What

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Speaker 3: do you think as you're hearing I feel free to challenge.

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Speaker 1: Meant to be like, my god, Shelly, like you're talking

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Speaker 1: my language. This is something I've thought so much about

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Speaker 1: over the last few months because because I've been having

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Speaker 1: such a hard time at work. But I'm a leader

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Speaker 1: in the business and you know, I'm talking to Inventim's

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Speaker 1: clients every day about these kinds of you know, challenges.

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Speaker 1: I feel like bringing your whole self to work is

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Speaker 1: terrible advice. I love that idea of bring your best

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Speaker 1: self to work. And something that happened to me is

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Speaker 1: end of June, I hit the you know, the absolute

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Speaker 1: closest that I've ever come to to burn out.

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Speaker 2: So I think I was there.

435
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: I had all the symptoms that had been building up

436
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: for a while, and my general principle there is just

437
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: wait till the emotions have kind of healed or the

438
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: you know, the wound has scarred over, and then I

439
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: will you know, write and talk about it. And so

440
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: something I heard a little bit later on from my

441
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: team is that there was a member of my team

442
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: that said, why didn't Amantha tell us that she was

443
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: burnt out at the time. You know, I think, to

444
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: this person, it felt like, shouldn't we all be comfortable

445
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: like sharing those things? And I think, you know, maybe

446
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: it indicated that there was like, I don't know, maybe

447
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: like it's just not comfortable being vulnerable or something like that.

448
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: And I had quite a strong reaction to that because

449
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: I thought like, if I would have shown up and

450
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: brought my whole self to work, I would have been

451
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: a nightmare to work with. No one would have wanted

452
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: to be in a meeting with me. It would have

453
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: been terrible. And I deliberately thought like, I need to

454
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: bring kind of conjure up the best possible self that

455
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: I can, because you know, we're all feeling you know, overworked,

456
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: like none of us are at our best right now,

457
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: and the last thing that my team needed at that

458
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,239
Speaker 1: point in time was a leader who was showing up

459
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 1: as burnt out, even though that was my internal experience.

460
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: And I really agree like the way that anyone shows up,

461
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: but particularly how leaders shows up. It's like, emotions are,

462
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: you know, highly contagious.

463
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 3: And when you are the founder and a leader in

464
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 3: a business, you're team live in the wake of your

465
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 3: energy levels. So it's like they live in the wake

466
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 3: of that, and yeah, they want to support you, and

467
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 3: they want that vulnerability, and I think there is absolutely

468
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 3: that need for vulnerability, and I'd love to do like

469
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: a side by side comparison between vulnerability and oversharing. And

470
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 3: because I'm a verbal processor, so I love I love

471
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: to share all the things I have noticed in myself

472
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: when I'm over sharing versus when I'm being vulnerable, it's

473
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 3: when the issue is too close to the time that

474
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: I'm experiencing. Like you said, the emotions are too raw,

475
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: I'm not actually navigating it in a kind of healthy way,

476
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 3: and so to share that with the full team is

477
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 3: not going to be helpful Versus two months down the

478
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: track where you're like, you know what, I've processed this,

479
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: I've reflected on what got me there, and I can

480
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: openly share this in a useful way while still being vulnerable,

481
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 3: still building trust, but knowing that the oversharing thing doesn't

482
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: build trust, it actually undermines trust.

483
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: I love that idea between like what's fune mobility versus

484
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: what's over sharing. Something I think about is if I'm

485
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: making the choice to be vulnerable or share something that

486
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: is quite personal about my experience, I always think, like

487
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: to what end? Like why am I doing this? Like,

488
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: and if I'm just doing this to be seen, I

489
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: think do it with a friend or my partner or

490
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: something like that, And there's something I have to check

491
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: myself with. It's like if I'm sharing something that is

492
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: about a hard experience or something vulnerable that I've gone through,

493
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, part of I guess, like

494
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: the way I see my own brand and my purpose,

495
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: if you like, is to give people really practical tips

496
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: and insights that will make their you know, work in

497
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: Bracket's life better. Then if I'm sharing, there needs to

498
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 1: be a purpose to that.

499
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're in the oversharing mode, it's really focused

500
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 3: around self versus when you're in the vulnerability mode.

501
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 2: It's like service.

502
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: So if I think about what you do when you're

503
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 3: like sharing a couple of months afterwards, Look, I was

504
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 3: really the closest I've ever been to burn up. It's

505
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 3: been the toughest year I've ever had. Here's what I've

506
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 3: learnt through it. It becomes less about self and more

507
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: about service, and that to me is a huge difference.

508
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: And when we're sharing with the team, I think we

509
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: can say things like, Hey, I am really struggling. I'm

510
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: probably not in the space to like talk about it

511
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: right now because I don't know how helpful it'll be.

512
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: But when I'm ready, I'd love to kind of unpack

513
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: it with you and the team being okay with that.

514
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: You know, what's your process then for unpacking that before

515
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: you share it? Like, do you have a person that

516
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: you go to given you are a verbal processor, what

517
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: does that look like?

518
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: Yes? Yeah, Well one of my mentors who I catch

519
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 3: up with like and she's business coach as well, so

520
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: we talk a lot and I will process like some

521
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: of that. And I have also gone through like quite

522
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: a bit of like therapy and seen a psychologist and

523
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: know that there are things that I just need to

524
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 3: get prefer pertional help with and that's really important for

525
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 3: me to be my best self. Like that's how I

526
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 3: become my best self is like making sure some of

527
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: these things that are recurring things for example, fear of failure,

528
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,239
Speaker 3: fear of what other people think. The other one is

529
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 3: like my kind of like workoholism, tendencies, and like obsession

530
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: with sometimes work and identity connected to work. Those are

531
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 3: things that I have found I have had to process

532
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: in a therapeutic way. And this has been through learning

533
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: this in therapy. Anytime there's an issue that I have,

534
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 3: or a challenge in business or a challenge at work,

535
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: I've started to do this habit of what happened versus

536
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: what am I making it mean? And that really helps

537
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,479
Speaker 3: me to distinguish between when am I ruminating? When am

538
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: I overthinking? When am I going into like a dark

539
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: place with this Because like let's say I wanted to

540
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: land this particular job or client or whatever and didn't

541
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 3: for whatever reason. What happened, Well, we didn't land the job.

542
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 3: What am I making it mean? I'm not good enough?

543
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: I am a failure. I don't have what it takes

544
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: I will XYZ like all the yucky thoughts versus what

545
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: could it actually mean? It could mean that, but it

546
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 3: could mean a whole stack of things. It could mean

547
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: that they went for a way cheaper option and great

548
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 3: for them. It could mean for like all these different scenarios.

549
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 3: But my style of thinking is to go to the

550
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: worst case and reflect it on me. And I've had

551
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: to unlearn that behavior and identify what is the fear

552
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: and belief, How is that impacting me? And is that

553
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: fear or belief actually useful or do I need to

554
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: rethink that and reframe that. And so that has really helped.

555
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: But I don't know if you've you know, if you've

556
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 3: got habits around this stuff, because I think this is

557
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: a really common common challenge.

558
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: Something I try to remind myself to do when there

559
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: is a stressor is I will think about what's the

560
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: thing that's stressing me out, and then I'll check my

561
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: level of control. It's like, do I have control over this,

562
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 1: do I have a bit of influence over this? Or

563
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: do I really have no control over this? And then

564
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: if I've got control or if I can influence the situation,

565
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: I will choose to act and I'll think about what's

566
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: the best course of action I can take here. But

567
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: if I've got no control, I will accept it. So

568
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: for example, you know, if I think about, you know,

569
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: something that causes me stress is having to have, you know,

570
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: challenging conversations where I know, like maybe I'm delivering some

571
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: feedback to someone that's going to be hard to take,

572
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: for example, for various reasons. Again that unpacked in therapy.

573
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: And I then think, Okay, what can I control about this?

574
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: And it's like, I can control how I show up.

575
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: I can control how I prepare in terms of knowing

576
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: what are the messages that I need to deliver in

577
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: some way in this conversation, And I can control that

578
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: to a pretty good degree. But definitely where I've got

579
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: no control is to where's the other person out? How

580
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: are they showing up to the conversation emotionally? What is

581
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: the context in their world? I mean, who knows, maybe

582
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: they've been up all night with a seak kid that's

583
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: got gastro I don't know, and I can't control that.

584
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: So I like to think about that. And when I

585
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: think through that and actually write it down, map it out,

586
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: it helps me just focus on the things that I

587
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: can control, which then leads to a reduction in just

588
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: feeling stressed.

589
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 3: It is really hard, I think, when you're under that

590
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: stress to step back and go, oh, I'm focusing right

591
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 3: now on all the things outside of my control. Because

592
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: we're often in like our sympathetic nervous system, we're kind

593
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 3: of in the adrenal mode. Do you have any strategies

594
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: amount that feel like even identifying when you're focusing on

595
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: the things outside of your control.

596
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: I always like to think of what's the trigger it's

597
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: going to snap me out of it? And I think

598
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: for me, a trigger is what I'm feeling in my body.

599
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: Like if I'm feeling just physiologically the symptoms of stress,

600
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: I normally feel it in my tummy, and I will

601
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: feel it in my tension in my shoulders and neck.

602
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: And when I feel that and sort of tune into

603
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: my body, which I try to do several times a day,

604
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: I'll then identify that I'm feeling stressed, and I'll think

605
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: about what are the things that are stressing me out?

606
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: And then I'll go through that process. And there are

607
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: a couple of other processes that I will work through,

608
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, I like cyclic siying, as a way just

609
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 1: to reset my nervous system.

610
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're a cross cyclic.

611
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: Sighing where you take a deep breath in three nose

612
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: and then take another breath in three nose, so you

613
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: fully inflate your lungs and then you breathe out through

614
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: your mouth and repeating that process for about five minutes.

615
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: It slows down a respiratory rate, and it makes us

616
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: a whole lot stressed. I will find myself doing that.

617
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: That is probably a daily habit.

618
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: I love what you're describing there of even listening to

619
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 3: your body, because I think we often we're quite aware,

620
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: or we can be aware of what we're feeling, what

621
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: we're thinking, but that body awareness or body iq. I

622
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 3: heard someone describe it as I love that because a

623
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: lot of the time that tends to be the last

624
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: thing we notice. And like, I don't know where I am.

625
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: Must have been like a Tony Robin's real that's something

626
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: like that where he was drawning about like yelling on

627
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: a stage, being like I'm the master of my body

628
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: and whatever, blah blah blah. Like I have any Tony

629
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 3: Robins fans, that's awesome, But I was like that sometimes

630
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 3: your body has this intelligence, we ignore it or we

631
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 3: don't even notice it. And I think like tuning into

632
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: that signal of okay, it's not that you're like letting

633
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: that rule you. The nausea feeling I get when I

634
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 3: am anxious about anything. It's not that you that rules you,

635
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 3: but it's like listening to, Okay, what might this be

636
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: telling me? And therefore, like how can I respond in

637
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: a way that's helpful rather than just try and push

638
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 3: through all the time. And I think that relates also

639
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: to when people are in the lead up to burnout,

640
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: because a lot of the signals are in your body

641
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: and we just disregard them. I'm sure like there was

642
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 3: probably some signs in your body that maybe you didn't

643
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 3: notice until like you got to that point, like and

644
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 3: feel free to like share if you feel like it.

645
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: But I just think that is often a sign that

646
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: we ignore in the lead up to burnout as well.

647
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: I think I definitely was ignoring things, you know, I reckon.

648
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: You know, the challenge for knowledge worker is you know,

649
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: which you and I are, like we're paid for the

650
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: quality of the thinking that we provide, is that it

651
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: kind of lends itself to just being in your head

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00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: and then being stuck in your head. So you know,

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00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: sometimes I just find just having visual cues in my workspace,

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00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: like a post it note, it might remind me to

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00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: look for some kind of a cue, like if I'm

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00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: trying to create like a que based trigger to form

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00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: a new habit around how I respond to stress. I

658
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: find that that can be quite helpful, even if it's

659
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: just a post it note that says check your body,

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00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: and that's sitting on my computer monitor. It's just a

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00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 1: great visual reminder to keep these things front of mind. Kellie,

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00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: I have so loved the opportunity to just sit down

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00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: and chat. We've obviously been on each other's podcast before,

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00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: where it's very you know, I'm interviewing you or you

665
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: are interviewing me.

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00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: That kind of vibe.

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00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: That it's just been so wonderful to sit down and

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00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: just have a conversation about all these shared challenges that

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00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: I can't help thinking if we've been facing them. Hopefully

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00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: this conversation has been useful for other people.

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00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 3: Too, absolutely, and I think just even the validation of

672
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: going some of these common fears, giving them a label

673
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 3: and they going Okay, how do I make a choice

674
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 3: in how I respond to those fear of failure, fear

675
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: of what people think, all of those feeling pressure to

676
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 3: progress and what does like growth look like versus being

677
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 3: able to simplify so many people. I think we're going

678
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: to relate to that. And I just want to say

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00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 3: thank you, because this is going to be that moment

680
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 3: for me where I go away, I'm going to take

681
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 3: a few notes down and go there are half moments

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00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: turning those into some action. Because I really appreciate your

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00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 3: input and insight, Amantha, and also the thing and I

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00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: would just say one thing that I really really love

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00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: about what you do. You do this in such a

686
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: beautiful way, Like your curiosity is like something that inspires me.

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00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: I think about the way you ask questions. I almost

688
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: like feel like I can see your mind like thinking

689
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 3: about these like really deep, beautiful questions. And I love

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00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 3: that about you, and I think that's something that is

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00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: an absolute superpower, the ability to ask those curious questions

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00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: and communicat in such a beautiful way. So thank you

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00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 3: and thanks for having this conversation.

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00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: I hope you loved this chat with Shelley as much

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00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: as I did. Working on that fear of what others

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00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: think is a constant, ongoing process, and knowing that Shelley

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00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: faces similar struggles.

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00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: Is actually a huge hop for me. I've put the.

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00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: Links to Shelley's socials as well as to the Bald

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00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: Side in the show notes, and you should definitely check

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00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: out her.

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00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: Podcast, This is Work.

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00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: If you like today's show, make sure you gud follow

704
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: on your podcast app to be alerted when new episodes drop.

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00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: How I Work was recorded

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00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: On the traditional land of the Warringery people, part of

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00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: the Cooler Nation