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Speaker 1: Matt Hepworth's filling Intricating Wolves. A report in the NT

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Speaker 1: News this morning reveals increases in grog related hospital presentations

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Speaker 1: in the top end have cast doubt on the effectiveness

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Speaker 1: of the anti government's alcohol flaw price. It's an exclusive

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Speaker 1: report by Matt Cunningham and he joins me on the line. Now,

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Speaker 1: get a matte, good mate, before we get into this

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Speaker 1: report around alcohol related hospital admissions. What a day in

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Speaker 1: parliament yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Well it's like that every day these days, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It's like the good old days.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's never a dull moment. And jeez, that passionate

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Speaker 1: speech from Leah Finocchiaro after the government knock backed their

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Speaker 1: proposed bal reforms. It was a passionate one.

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Speaker 2: Well, she's been on the trunk foot about this issue.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. It's an interesting debate.

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Speaker 2: There's obviously plenty of people who've got plenty of things

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Speaker 2: to say. I suppose the question is whether anything changes

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Speaker 2: and anything gets stick.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, certainly not anytime soon. Now we know the

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Speaker 1: government's reforms that they're proposing won't hit Parliament until later

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Speaker 1: in the year. Now, it so be a watch and

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Speaker 1: wait for that. You'll report in the NT News today

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Speaker 1: the headline floor Price flowed. Increases in grog related hospital

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Speaker 1: presentations in the top end have cast doubt on the

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Speaker 1: effectiveness of the anti government alcohol floor price Map.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right, Maria. I mean it covers no surprise

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Speaker 2: to people anywhere in the territory at the moment that

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Speaker 2: there's been a sharp increase in alcohol related harm. But

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Speaker 2: so what we've done down is track What we've done

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Speaker 2: is track down the latest alcohol related hospital presentation data. Now,

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Speaker 2: one thing that the researchers who've been looking into this

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Speaker 2: stuff have been pretty clear about is to get the

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Speaker 2: best gauge on the floor price, you need to look

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Speaker 2: at the data from Darwin and Parmison because up in

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Speaker 2: the top end we don't have some of those other

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Speaker 2: measures in place, in particular the permanent police presence on

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Speaker 2: the bottle shops for Talis. So when you look at

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Speaker 2: this data, you can see that basically since the four

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Speaker 2: price came in, if you combine the Darwen and Partmentan hospitals,

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Speaker 2: there's been an increase. There was a five point five

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Speaker 2: percent increase in the first twelve months in the hospital.

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Speaker 2: The later emergency department sorry in alcohol related emergency department

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Speaker 2: presentation in Darwen and Parlasan. That's in the first twelve

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Speaker 2: months after the full price came in, and a subsequent

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Speaker 2: eleven percent year on year increase in the second year

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Speaker 2: that the four prices come in. So you'd have to

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Speaker 2: say that the trend there is going up. Now. The

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Speaker 2: government's pointing to the coronavirus stimulus payment and we know

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Speaker 2: that this has been something that we talked about previously

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Speaker 2: and we know it's having quite a big impact. Although

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Speaker 2: there are others who were saying, well, if you look

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Speaker 2: at this data and you can see that even before

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Speaker 2: those stimulus payments came into plane, there was an increase

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Speaker 2: in those emergency department presentations after the full price were introduced.

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Speaker 1: Man, wasn't there some research earlier this year or late

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Speaker 1: last year. I think it was from a university that

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Speaker 1: suggested alcohol related harm was actually down.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is interesting, Mattie, because there was a piece

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Speaker 2: that was published on the Conversation website only last month

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Speaker 2: that was talking about the floor price being a success

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Speaker 2: and the fact that and the authors of this piece

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Speaker 2: are actually suggesting and they were from Deacon University suggesting

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Speaker 2: that the floor price should be rolled out nationally based

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Speaker 2: on the success in the Northern Territory. Now, they were

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Speaker 2: basing that argument on the fact that there'd been a

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Speaker 2: sharp reduction in the sales of cast wants. What people

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Speaker 2: on the ground and even police are telling us is

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Speaker 2: that and those researchers were arguing that there hadn't been

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Speaker 2: a substitution. Now we're hearing a very different story, both

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Speaker 2: from the hospitality industry and from the Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 2: I spoke to Alex Bruce from Hospitality and TA yesterday

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Speaker 2: and he said that they're businesses on the ground say

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Speaker 2: that there was an immediate switch from cast wine to

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Speaker 2: bottled wine and bottled spirits, in particular Bundy Rum. I

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Speaker 2: spoke to the Police Commissioner a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 2: when I was talked when we were talking about the

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Speaker 2: COVID stimulus payments, and he said police is seen a

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Speaker 2: serious shift from both cast wine and beer to those

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Speaker 2: heavier products and Bundy rum was one that he mentioned

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Speaker 2: as well. And we're also seeing that product sold on

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Speaker 2: the black market secondary supply, and the Police commission said

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Speaker 2: it's been selling for up to nine hundred dollars a bottle.

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Speaker 2: So I think that there is a growing body of

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Speaker 2: evidence that suggests that even though people are not drinking

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Speaker 2: as much cast wine anymore, they're drinking other products and

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Speaker 2: we're seeing that harm still play out. And the front

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Speaker 2: line of that is obviously in our hospitals, and in

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Speaker 2: recent months they've never been busier.

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Speaker 1: That evidence, that hard evidence from police and hospitality and

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Speaker 1: tea would be, in addition to anecdotal evidence that we've

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Speaker 1: heard here on the show before of an increase in

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Speaker 1: mouthwashed bottles and vanilla essence bottles that people are consuming

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Speaker 1: in our local parks and streets.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Mattie, I mean, you know, we walk around town,

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Speaker 2: you can see that sort of thing. So I've noticed

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Speaker 2: certainly more empty mouthwashed bottles around the place. And the

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Speaker 2: other thing is run off bottles. I was actually talking

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Speaker 2: to a cyclist this morning, and again it is anecdotal

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Speaker 2: evidence of hard evidence, but these are the stories that

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Speaker 2: he hears. I was talking to a cyclist this morning

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Speaker 2: who said that there's being a huge increase in the

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Speaker 2: number of punctures that they're getting. He said he used

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Speaker 2: to get a puncher every six months. Now he's getting

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Speaker 2: one every two weeks because of the amount of broken

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Speaker 2: glass that is now on the cycling paths and he reckons.

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Speaker 2: The bike shops have never been busier when it comes

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Speaker 2: to puncture repairs. So you know, there are all different

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Speaker 2: bits and pieces of stories that we hear. But I

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Speaker 2: think what's important, though, Mattie, is that we are really

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Speaker 2: clear around what data we use to assess these things

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Speaker 2: and therefore how we assess them now. I've got a

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Speaker 2: criticism of the government that when it brought these measurement

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Speaker 2: in the first place, it was a little bit vague

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Speaker 2: about how they would assess each one. I think that

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Speaker 2: alcohol related assaults and alcohol related hospital presentations are the

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Speaker 2: best way to show whether the reforms are working. And

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Speaker 2: I think if you look at alcohol related hospital presentations

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Speaker 2: at the moment, you suggest that there is an issue

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Speaker 2: when it comes to the success of the policies that

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Speaker 2: have been implemented. Now there may be other factors at play,

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Speaker 2: and I think a big factor in this, and the

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Speaker 2: government says this, and I think they're right when they

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Speaker 2: say there's a big factor in this has been the

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Speaker 2: extra coronavirus stimulus payments. But at the same time we've

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Speaker 2: got the harshest restrictions when in the country, some of

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Speaker 2: the harshest in the world when it comes to alcohol

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Speaker 2: here in the Northern Territory, and when they're up against

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Speaker 2: those extra payments, they really they haven't been able to

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Speaker 2: stop the extra harm that we're seeing from people consuming

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Speaker 2: a lot of alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Matt. Is today's report proof that, I guess you can

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Speaker 1: take you and like you said that there's so many

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Speaker 1: broad measures of the government's alcohol policies that it is

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Speaker 1: hard to measure them. But it's today proof. I mean,

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Speaker 1: given the data you've got that suggests things are getting worse,

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Speaker 1: not better, but then the government rolls out data to

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Speaker 1: say things are getting better, not worse. That you can

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Speaker 1: manipulate statistics anyway you want to.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that that is a definite. It's definitely

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Speaker 2: the case, Matt. You can absolutely, you know, manipulate spatistics

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Speaker 2: whatever way you want to. I mean, you know, some

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Speaker 2: may even accuse me of doing that in this story,

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Speaker 2: but I think that you know, what we've done here

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Speaker 2: has been pretty clear. We've been told that Darwin and

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Speaker 2: Palmerston is the best way to gauge the floor price,

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Speaker 2: in particular because those other measures are not here, and

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Speaker 2: when you look at Darwin and Palmerston, there's definitely been

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Speaker 2: an increase since the floor price has come in in

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Speaker 2: alcohol related hospital presentation. Now there's one caveat, of course,

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Speaker 2: and that is that we saw the Palmerston Hospital come

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Speaker 2: online in August twenty eighteen. That means that now got

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Speaker 2: two hospitals instead of one. But I think it's fair

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Speaker 2: to combine the data from those two hospitals because people

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Speaker 2: who would have been presenting it Palmerston are obviously now

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Speaker 2: presenting it roll as Darwin Hospital. And when you look

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Speaker 2: at those two hospitals together, there's certainly been an increase

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Speaker 2: since the four price came in.

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Speaker 1: Certainly will be well, matt Cunningham. Hopefully we'll see you

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Speaker 1: tomorrow for the week that was here. We've got a Cracker,

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Speaker 1: Leah finochi Aro, Kate Warden, yourself and Robin Laanley.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon I might be a silent observing there tomorrow, Mattie.

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Speaker 2: I could get a word in, but I'm sure they'll

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Speaker 2: be putting a fly with it.

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Speaker 1: Well, Look, if Katie's not back, it'll be you and

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Speaker 1: me both, I said to Ronnie before I said I

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Speaker 1: think I'll just turn the marks on and let them

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Speaker 1: do their thing for the hour.

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Speaker 2: That's probably good idea.

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Speaker 1: Good on you, Matte. We will catch up with you

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Speaker 1: again tomorrow. Thanks mate. Buy That is Sky News and

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Speaker 1: Anti News is Matt Cunningham there with a report in

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Speaker 1: the paper today about these increases in grog related hospitalizations

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Speaker 1: in the top end. He says they've cast down on

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Speaker 1: the effectiveness of the Anti government's alcohol flaw price