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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Family Podcast where we answer

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Speaker 1: your tricky questions every Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: Today it's a doozy.

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Speaker 1: With the upcoming book published by HarperCollins and ABC Books

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Speaker 1: called Boys by Me. Doctor Justin Coulson Building Strong Young

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Speaker 1: Men from the inside Out had a question come through

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Speaker 1: about how boys are doing, how men are doing, and

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Speaker 1: what we can do to turn things around because the

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Speaker 1: short answer is things aren't going particularly well. More on

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Speaker 1: what this means for our country but also for our

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Speaker 1: sons right after this. Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families

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Speaker 1: podcast where you get real parenting solutions every single day.

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Speaker 1: This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin

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Speaker 1: and Kylie Colson Today. What do we do about the

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Speaker 1: Can we call it a crisis? The men and boys

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Speaker 1: challenges crisis?

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say it. I'm going to go there.

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Speaker 1: The difficulties that we're facing when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: well being, the development and even the behavior have so

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Speaker 1: many boys and men. Every Tuesday we answer your tricky

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Speaker 1: questions about tricky stuff like family and relationships and well

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Speaker 1: being in screens and discipline and boys and men. So,

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Speaker 1: if you'd like to submit a tricky question. We've got

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Speaker 1: a really super simple system. Try and say that three

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Speaker 1: times fastness. Happy Families give it to me now, super

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Speaker 1: simple system.

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Speaker 3: Super simple system, super simplsis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a tricky one, isn't it. The super simple

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Speaker 1: system is a Happy Families dot com DoD au. Justcrolled

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Speaker 1: down to see the record button you when you're a literation.

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Speaker 2: And start talking.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise you can send us a voice note to podcasts

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Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au, just like Neil

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Speaker 1: did with this question.

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Speaker 4: Can I Justin and Kylie? This is Neil from Brisbane.

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Speaker 4: There have been some MPs and commentators calling for a

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Speaker 4: minister from men, which at first I thought was a

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Speaker 4: crazy idea minority groups might benefit from special representation in government.

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Speaker 4: But man, really, but when we think of some of

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Speaker 4: the challenges facing us throughllians violent crime, especially domestic violence, gambling,

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Speaker 4: traffic accidents, workplace accidents and suicide, these topics affect men

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Speaker 4: far more than women, and if we can reduce those

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Speaker 4: things crime, gambling, suicide and accidents, then every Australian could

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Speaker 4: be better off. Justin give them the topic of your

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Speaker 4: new book coming home soon we help. Do you think

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Speaker 4: Austrillians should have administer from n and government.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Neil, I love this question and I

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Speaker 2: love his accent. Isn't it great?

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Speaker 1: And I think it's the exact right framing. Anyway, missus

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Speaker 1: happy families, You are not politically inclined as general rule,

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Speaker 1: and you still haven't read the book. Does anything come

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Speaker 1: to mind when you hear the question? Is there anything

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Speaker 1: that you would like to divert into and ask about

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Speaker 1: before I just start talking and don't give you a

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Speaker 1: breath for the next fifteen minutes because there's so much

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Speaker 1: I want to say about this.

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Speaker 3: I feel like this is a really tricky one. I

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Speaker 3: think that humankind need help, like I think across the board,

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Speaker 3: and I don't understand why we have to segregate everything.

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Speaker 3: Why it has to be you know, gender related or

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Speaker 3: marital status or whatever. Like we're just constantly trying to

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Speaker 3: segregate and you know, kind of box people into a

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Speaker 3: label as a puser.

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Speaker 2: So let's call it identity politics.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as opposed to recognizing that as a human being,

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Speaker 3: we all have needs, we all have rights, we all

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Speaker 3: have wants and desires.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question. If there was a

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Speaker 1: house on fire in our street and you're driving down

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Speaker 1: the street, would you pay attention to any particular house

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Speaker 1: more than any.

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Speaker 3: Other the house on fire?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what I think really matters here, and I

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Speaker 1: actually agree with you everybody needs to be treated as humans,

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Speaker 1: and we need to look after humankind to generally.

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Speaker 2: You are one hundred percent right, totally agree.

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Speaker 1: But if there are a subset of humans who are

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Speaker 1: not doing well, let's let's look at our indigenous population,

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Speaker 1: for example, then would it be reasonable to say, let's

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Speaker 1: an additional attention, let's put let's put some water on

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Speaker 1: this fire and see if we can help that particular

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Speaker 1: cohort that particular population to start looking like the other

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Speaker 1: houses in the street, not necessarily by conforming, but by

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Speaker 1: not being on fire anymore. Is that a reasonable analogy entirely?

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Speaker 3: I think so. Is the reason that men are struggling

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Speaker 3: so much in society today a direct result of this

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Speaker 3: idea around equal rights and women wanting competition with a

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Speaker 3: man's role as opposed to recognizing that we have really

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Speaker 3: distinct and varied strengths on either side that compliment each

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Speaker 3: other instead of trying to fight for equal place.

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Speaker 1: So that's probably a broader sociological and political power question,

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Speaker 1: and people will vary right across the spectrum on that

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Speaker 1: in relation to what's happening right now, which is really

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Speaker 1: where Neil's focused, and it does time very much with

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Speaker 1: my boys, which you can pretty good to right now

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Speaker 1: at bootopia dot com dot au.

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Speaker 2: I my dad.

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Speaker 1: The data show that, so if you look at disadvantaged groups,

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Speaker 1: if you look at groups that are struggling, the person

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Speaker 1: most likely to struggle in Australia today is male. Like

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Speaker 1: if you just look at a gender breakdown, we look

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Speaker 1: at various other breakdowns, we look at ages, or we

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Speaker 1: look at race, and we look at a whole range

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Speaker 1: of other variables, but at the very core of it,

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Speaker 1: it's a male who is much more likely to struggle

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Speaker 1: with things like violent crime, domestic violence, gambling, traffic accidents,

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Speaker 1: workplace death, suicide. They're much more likely to be hurt

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Speaker 1: by another man, So men are much more likely perpetrate,

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Speaker 1: but they're also much more likely to the victims of crime.

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Speaker 1: They're also much more likely to hurt themselves. And so

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Speaker 1: my take on this question is that by addressing the

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Speaker 1: challenges that men are experiencing, we have a crisis hurting everybody,

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Speaker 1: and that is that men are failing to thrive. We

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Speaker 1: have too many non thriving males, both boys and men,

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Speaker 1: and if we can help males to thrive.

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Speaker 2: Then everybody gets lifted up.

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Speaker 1: Everybody does better because when men are doing well, they

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Speaker 1: make sure that the women around them are doing well

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Speaker 1: as well. But when men are not doing well, they

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Speaker 1: hurt themselves, they hurt each other, and they hurt women

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Speaker 1: at vastly higher rates. Men are committing ninety five percent

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Speaker 1: of violent crimes. So that's not just a men's problem.

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Speaker 1: That's community safety problems. You've said all people. But if

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Speaker 1: we can't lift men up, then we're going to have challenges.

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Speaker 1: Men are dying at the rate of three to four

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Speaker 1: times that of women. When we look at suicide, that's

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Speaker 1: obviously horrendously tragic for those men and their families.

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Speaker 2: We've been through that, but look at who's most affected.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because I don't disagree with anything you're saying,

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Speaker 3: but when you look at society in general, it feels like,

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Speaker 3: and this is I'm acknowledging, it feels like, not necessarily

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Speaker 3: it is, but it feels like men hold all power.

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Speaker 1: Right, I want to talk about pushback a little bit later.

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Speaker 1: That is one of the big issues of pushback.

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Speaker 2: There's men at.

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Speaker 1: Top outnumbering the women, but there's also men form bottom

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Speaker 1: line outnumbering the women one percent. Really really concerning. So

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Speaker 1: this question that is asking, though it's not it's not

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Speaker 1: unique to Australia.

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Speaker 3: So is anything happening like this globally?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So in the UK they've been debating this, get

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Speaker 1: this more than twenty years now. A guy called Lord Northbourne. Northbourne,

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Speaker 1: I feel very fancy saying it, but I can't say

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Speaker 1: it properly. Lord Northbourne first proposed to he said, if

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Speaker 1: there's a minister for women in mine for children, then

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Speaker 1: that assumes that men don't have problems. And then a

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Speaker 1: few years ago there was a Conservative MP. His name

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Speaker 1: was Nick Fletcher. He pointed out that forty one percent

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Speaker 1: of British high school boys were being told that boys

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Speaker 1: are a problem for society's that's the message they were

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Speaker 1: receiving from society. He cited mail underachievement in education, lower

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Speaker 1: university enrollment, and the fact that a huge number of

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Speaker 1: boys and men just feel like they are failing to

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Speaker 1: thrive in my data here in Australia that I've written

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Speaker 1: about in the book. The stats in terms of our

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Speaker 1: young men finishing school and going on the university or

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Speaker 1: even being in employment educational training. It's devastating compared to

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Speaker 1: how the girl's going. We've got a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: other stuff happening in the UK. In New Zealand, they

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Speaker 1: have been making the same argument for quite some time.

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Speaker 1: In the United States, Michigan is one state. There's a

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Speaker 1: couple of other states.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember what they are. I know that Utah

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Speaker 2: is one of them as well.

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Speaker 1: They're appointing ministers for men because they're recognizing that if

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Speaker 1: we can lift men up.

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Speaker 2: They'll do better.

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Speaker 1: But I want to give a counter example, something that

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Speaker 1: I didn't write about in the book because it's just

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Speaker 1: it's so interesting, but it wasn't part of what the

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Speaker 1: book was about is what's happened in South Korea. So

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Speaker 1: cautionary tale for what happens when you ignore young men

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Speaker 1: and the issues they're having. South Korea has had a

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Speaker 1: Ministry of Gender Equality since two thousand and one. But

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Speaker 1: when you translate the Korean name, which I can't speak,

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Speaker 1: but which all the research that I did shows that

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Speaker 1: this is what happens The Minister of the Ministry sorry

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Speaker 1: of gender Equality, translates as the Ministry of Women Affairs

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Speaker 1: and Family, not gender equality, and the young Korean men

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Speaker 1: well like, well, hang on, it's going on here. It

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Speaker 1: feels like we're being left out. A couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: the presidential election was won by someone called Junsukul, and

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Speaker 1: that was one on an explicitly anti feminist platform promising let's.

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Speaker 2: Abolish the ministry, but the work had already been done.

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Speaker 1: So South Korea currently has one of the worst gender

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Speaker 1: divides in the developed world. In twenty twenty five, they

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Speaker 1: had to add a gender Equity Policy division specifically to

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Speaker 1: address discrimination against men because the backlasher become so severe

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Speaker 1: that you couldn't ignore it anymore. And what the lesson

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Speaker 1: really is is that when you only talk about one

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Speaker 1: gender's problems, you create resentment, and that resentment doesn't actually

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Speaker 1: make anyone safer. It entrenches and embeds the misogyny and

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Speaker 1: the anger and the resentment that we've been seeing in

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Speaker 1: things like Lui Thru's Inside the Manisphere documentary.

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Speaker 3: So where does Australia sit in relation to this ideology?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've taken different approach. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: it's working, and Neil is right to be asking this question.

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Speaker 1: So Victoria is the first place to do something about this.

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Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I think it was twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, they appointed Australia's first Parliamentary Secretary for Men's

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Speaker 1: Behavior Change guy called Tim Richardson his job therefore, think

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Speaker 1: about the title as Secretary for Men's Behavior Change. Focus

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Speaker 1: therefore is changing men's behavior, addressing violence against women. So

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be misrepresented here. When we talk

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Speaker 1: about family and domestic violence, we are talking about something

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Speaker 1: that is really severe and problematic. I'm astonished at how

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Speaker 1: bad the numbers are here in Australia. It is breathtaking.

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Speaker 1: Gob'smackingly bad. So I don't want to downplay anything.

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Speaker 2: That's going on here.

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Speaker 1: It's just unacceptable. But my problem with Victorian approaches as

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Speaker 1: follows it frames men exclusively, is the problem not as

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Speaker 1: people who might be struggling, not as people who don't

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Speaker 1: understand how to deal with their alcohol and other drug addictions,

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Speaker 1: or their emotion dysregulation, all the traumatic events that they've

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Speaker 1: witnessed in experience growing up, all the fact that they're

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Speaker 1: living in this man box that tells them that the

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Speaker 1: beliefs that they have can only be sustained through their aggression,

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Speaker 1: and through their dominance, and through their abusive and subversive behavior,

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Speaker 1: through their controlling and coercive behavior.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you can monetize that behavior, there's no reason

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Speaker 3: to assume that it's wrong.

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Speaker 2: So right, you're right.

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Speaker 1: I just don't like this idea that it's a Minister

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Speaker 1: for behavior change, men's behavior change. If it was a

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Speaker 1: minister for men's well being, if it was a minister

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Speaker 1: for boys' mental health, I'd like it a lot more.

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Speaker 1: But it's a minister for changing men's behavior as if

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Speaker 1: all men are perpetrators in waiting, And for me, I

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Speaker 1: think it's a mistake, even though that will come across

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Speaker 1: as crass and inappropriate to a lot of people, it's

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Speaker 1: a mistake to say that every single man is a

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Speaker 1: perpetrator in waiting.

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Speaker 2: It's just not fair.

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Speaker 1: And I know that there's that whole not all men

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Speaker 1: hashtag that's out there and it gets people up in arms.

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Speaker 1: The reality is, though, and you said this recently when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a Lui Thru's inside the mana in

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Speaker 1: your bubble in your world. You just don't know any

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Speaker 1: men who are perpetrators the people that you deal with.

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Speaker 2: In your social circle.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, for me and for our family mostly it's exactly

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Speaker 1: the same thing, right, We're dealing with good people who

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Speaker 1: are not doing these kinds of things. So we don't

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Speaker 1: need a men's parliamentary, a parliamentary sectory for men's behavior change.

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Speaker 1: What we need is somebody who can work with men

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Speaker 1: on the challenges they're facing so that we can help

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Speaker 1: everybody to do better. New Zealand is also doing it.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I forgot to mention this. So when

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Speaker 1: you see men only through the lens of what they're

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Speaker 1: doing wrong and tell them they need to behave better,

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Speaker 1: you're actually alienating the very people that you're.

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Speaker 2: Trying to reach.

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Speaker 1: And I just it's typical for what so much of

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Speaker 1: what's happened in Victoria over the last few years has been.

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Speaker 1: But if we can have a minister focused on men's health,

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Speaker 1: on suicide prevention, on educational attainment, on positive role models,

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Speaker 1: on emotion regulation, on responsible use or zero use of

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Speaker 1: alcohol and other substances that are getting into their lives

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Speaker 1: and destroying their motivation, their capacity their regulatory capacity and

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Speaker 1: their relationships. That's a completely different conversation.

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Speaker 3: So you've just listed a whole heap of things that

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Speaker 3: you think would need to be in his portfolio or

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Speaker 3: her portfolio in order for this to be effective. But

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Speaker 3: what would they actually do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if we had a men's Minister or a Minister

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Speaker 1: for men in Australia, I would want them to focus on.

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Speaker 1: First of all, my suicide prevention. We lose Oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: I hate even saying this and it brings back so

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Speaker 1: much for what we've been through, but we lose over

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Speaker 1: two thousand Australian men to suicide every single year. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we talk about bringing the road told down, but that's

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Speaker 1: more than double the road toll. Those numbers are staggering.

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Speaker 1: I think about the compound effect of the loss of

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Speaker 1: those two thousand lives, the ripple effect, the way that

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Speaker 1: it rolls through friends and family, through mothers and fathers

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Speaker 1: and children and cousins, and the impact is just astronomical.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think that we have equivalent investment. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that we have a national strategy here that works.

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Speaker 1: So I would think that that would be an area

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Speaker 1: that absolutely needs focus.

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Speaker 2: Second, thing healthy masculinity education. I don't think that.

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Speaker 1: Programs in schools work particularly well, and that has to

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Speaker 1: do with sometimes the content of the program. Sometimes it

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Speaker 1: has to do with the quality of the people who

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Speaker 1: are teaching the programs. There are a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: factors that go into it. But I think that we

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Speaker 1: need programs and conversations that teach boys what healthy masculinity

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Speaker 1: looks like, not be less masculine, or be more feminine,

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Speaker 1: or be more in touch with your emotions. Not masculinity

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Speaker 1: as toxic. But and it's just two words, safer and stronger,

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Speaker 1: helping the people around you feel safer and stronger. Like

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Speaker 1: if we could drill that into the mind of every

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Speaker 1: young male in this country, I think we would have revolution.

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Speaker 3: I also think if you abolished alcohol now would change

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Speaker 3: the market as well.

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Speaker 1: We have friends who are police and they've all said

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Speaker 1: eighty to ninet percent of trime would disappear if you

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Speaker 1: could get rid of it.

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Speaker 3: Would you imagine, I mean we're talking almost utopian.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The third thing that I would say, and there's good

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Speaker 1: foundations out there that are doing this work already, but

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Speaker 1: the fatherhood support we know, we know, Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: involved father's one of the best predictors of child wellbeing.

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Speaker 1: But the way that we've got paternity leave happening in

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Speaker 1: this country, and the policies that we've got around dads

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Speaker 1: and their involvement with their children, especially post separation, post divorce.

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Speaker 1: I understand that we need to keep children safe and

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Speaker 1: that there are unsafe men, so I'm not stepping into

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Speaker 1: that territory. But if there is no evidence that a

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Speaker 1: man has done the wrong thing. We have a friend.

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Speaker 1: We have a friend who has been estranged from his

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Speaker 1: children because false accusations were made about his supposed abuse,

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Speaker 1: and he has not seen his children for seven years.

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Speaker 1: He writes them malotters every week. He does everything he

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Speaker 1: can to have some kind of semblance of a relationship

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Speaker 1: with them in conjunction with the court in post orders.

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Speaker 1: But this guy is a good guy. Yes, he's made mistakes,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps the biggest mistake that he made was the

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Speaker 1: person who he married, who has just been disgraceful people

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Speaker 1: live and who has lied and lied and lied. And

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Speaker 1: so by creating better stuff in the courts and also

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Speaker 1: better family support at a fatherhood support, I think that

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Speaker 1: would make a big difference. Also, I know that what

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Speaker 1: I just said is going to upset a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to say that all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I'm becoming one of those hardcore men going their own

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Speaker 1: way kind of things. That's not what I'm saying. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be misquoted. There are men out there

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Speaker 1: who should not be near their children, but I know

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Speaker 1: in this specific case, with this particular dad, it's unfair.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we know several people who have been through this,

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Speaker 1: most of them not quite so bad. Two more things, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: and I know we've got to wrap this up. Number One,

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Speaker 1: addressing the educational underachievement of young men, getting them finishing

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Speaker 1: high school, getting them to university, getting them skilled, getting

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Speaker 1: them trades, getting them employed beyond that base level would

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Speaker 1: make such a difference. Currently, I think Australia's got forty

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Speaker 1: four universities. I'd have to double check the manuscript of

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Speaker 1: my book, and women outnumber men in forty two of

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Speaker 1: those forty four universities. Like, the numbers are just staggering.

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Speaker 3: And what again, that blows me away from the perspective

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Speaker 3: that I wouldn't begin to guess what the numbers are.

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Speaker 3: But women are the main caregivers.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right, yes, And when you've got a sixty

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Speaker 1: forty split, that's what the split is. By the way,

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Speaker 1: in a lot of these in the university secretary generally

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Speaker 1: sixty percent of university students now a female, forty percent

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Speaker 1: a male. What's also happening there has massive social implications

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Speaker 1: because as again politically incorrect as it might sound to

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Speaker 1: say this, women do tend to marry a cross or

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Speaker 1: up when it comes to the socio economic and educational

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Speaker 1: capacity of their partners, whereas men are pretty happy to

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Speaker 1: marry anyone across up or down that don't really care.

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Speaker 2: Let's have this relationship. I like you, you like me. This

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Speaker 2: is a win.

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Speaker 1: And so if women are looking across and up and

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Speaker 1: they're just done any men there, guess what happens. They

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Speaker 1: stay single or they stay single for longer. And when

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Speaker 1: you talk about the economic impact, the growth impact the

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Speaker 1: way our country is going, we actually are going to

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Speaker 1: sound like I'm a politician now, we actually need people

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Speaker 1: to be getting married and having children important socially, emotionally,

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Speaker 1: but also financially and economically for our country.

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Speaker 3: But the research also suggests that when you can be

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Speaker 3: in a loving saved monogamous relationship that you thrive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where we get our thriving men.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it gives men purpose. I was talking before about

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Speaker 1: non thriving men and boys. What gives them purpose is

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Speaker 1: having someone to protect and provide for. We watched this

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Speaker 1: happen with our first son in law.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to marry our daughter. He didn't really have

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Speaker 2: many prospects.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't going anywhere fast, and he was quitting everything

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Speaker 1: faster than he was starting things like. It was not

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Speaker 1: looking great, but he promised that he was going to

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Speaker 1: get his act together. He went and got an apprenticeship.

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Speaker 1: And we look at the decisions that he's made since marrying,

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Speaker 1: and we've asked him what his other mates who have

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Speaker 1: stayed single have done, and he's just leaps and bounds

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Speaker 1: in front. And it seems that marriage forced a level

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Speaker 1: of maturity on him. Does that work for everybody, No,

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Speaker 1: of course not, but it seems like and the research

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Speaker 1: evidence points that that is directional, if not causal.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to imagine that there's probably some pretty

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Speaker 3: big pushback year relation to this.

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Speaker 1: There is, and even some of the things that I've

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Speaker 1: said today can be if they're not kept in context,

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Speaker 1: they can be really inflammatory for some people. And I

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Speaker 1: hope that I've been sensitive and I hope that I've

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Speaker 1: throw clear enough and made sure that the caveats are

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Speaker 1: in place where I've said what I've said, because there

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Speaker 1: are exceptions to what I've said, and I'm not throwing

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Speaker 1: a blanket over all of this. Here are the biggest

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Speaker 1: items of pushback. The first one goes back to what

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Speaker 1: you said about men have all the power, why do

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Speaker 1: they need a minister? There's a the.

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Speaker 3: People in the room who are making the decisions around

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Speaker 3: whether or not this would even go ahead predominantly male.

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Speaker 2: Tend to be men.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a bimodal distribution with the guys at

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Speaker 1: the top and at the bottom. I would also say

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Speaker 1: men with power. Men with power aren't the ones who

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Speaker 1: are dying in workplace accidents. And they're not the ones

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Speaker 1: who are taking their lives in regional sheds and on

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Speaker 1: farms in outback communities. The men who running the country

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Speaker 1: and corporations are not the men that we're worried about him.

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Speaker 3: Know that they're the ones that live in the bubble, correct.

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Speaker 1: I mean some of them have had their challenges as well.

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Speaker 1: John Brogden, former New South Wales I think was he

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Speaker 1: premier or opposition lad. He is quite open about his

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Speaker 1: depression and his attempts on his life and has written

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Speaker 1: a book about it and is doing what he can

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Speaker 1: for men's health because of what happened there. But I'm

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Speaker 1: worried about I'm worried about the boys in western Sydny.

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about the boys in regional New South Wales

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Speaker 1: that I was in a room with a couple of

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Speaker 1: months ago who were just going.

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Speaker 2: What's the point of this.

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned about the regional kids who are getting left

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Speaker 1: behind and just the non thriving Where is my purpose?

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Speaker 1: So that there is pushback, but I think that the

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Speaker 1: power issue can be dealt with. The second issue that

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Speaker 1: comes up a lot is this is taking away resources

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Speaker 1: from women and women need resources, and I think that

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Speaker 1: women do need resources, and there is an argument that

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Speaker 1: it could be but I would also say this is

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Speaker 1: not as zero of some situation. We can care about

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Speaker 1: women's health and safety and we can also care about

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Speaker 1: men's health.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it should ever be a one or

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Speaker 3: the other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you look at what happened in South Korea.

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Speaker 1: They ignored this and the bottom fell out.

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Speaker 2: It went pair shaped.

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Speaker 1: Last pushback that I hear regularly, and it really ticks

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Speaker 1: me off, is that people say, well, men should just

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Speaker 1: fix this themselves. And it ticks me off because we

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Speaker 1: would not say that about any other group. Go back

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Speaker 1: to the house on fire situation that I was talking

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Speaker 1: about before. When Indigenous Australians are overrepresented in prisons or suicides,

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Speaker 1: we don't say, well, Indigenous people should just fix themselves.

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Speaker 1: We recognize that there are systemic issues and we intervene.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're doing that very well there by

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Speaker 1: the way, but we do intervene, and the same principle

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00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: applies here. I just don't think the pushback is strong.

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Speaker 3: I think that regardless of which group we're talking about,

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Speaker 3: if people were capable of fixing themselves, then we wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have an issue. The very fact that we have an

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Speaker 3: issue suggests that help is needed, and wherever that help

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Speaker 3: is needed, I think that it's important for us to

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Speaker 3: navigate it as best we can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Neil, thanks for your question. I've been on

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Speaker 1: quite a quite a journey. To use your word Khylie

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Speaker 1: in this podcast. But men, men don't deserve special treatment.

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Speaker 1: But there are too many boys and men who are struggling,

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Speaker 1: and when they're violent, when they're self destructive, when they're disconnected,

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00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: when they're not thriving, Unfortunately, everybody around them suffers. And

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00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: if we can reduce male suicide and male violence and

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00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 1: male disengagement from family and society and education and from

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Speaker 1: one another, if we can just help boys grown to

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Speaker 1: men who make the world feel safer and the people

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Speaker 1: around them feel safer and stronger, not more dangerous, not smaller,

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Speaker 1: then that's going to be not just good for men,

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00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: it's going to be good for everybody. So that's my

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00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: response to Neil's tricky question. Let us know what you think,

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00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: Send us a voice note, send us an email. Podcasts

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00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot you, or jump into

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00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 1: our socials and give us your feedback. The Happy Families

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00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: podcast produced by Justin Ruhlind from Bridge Media, with additional

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00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: support and resources from Mimhammond. If you would like more

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00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: information about making your family happier, or if you'd like

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00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: to pre order the Boys Book, you Got to have

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00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: your Families dot com dot you, join the waitlist, or

477
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: go to booktopia dot com, dot you and pre order

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00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: the book now